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Author Topic: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed  (Read 28252 times)

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Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2015, 11:29:26 AM »
I have had that runaway with a M3 startup also. I think I fixed it with changing the step/dir active high/low settings. I haven't been playing with that for awhile.
Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2015, 04:48:59 AM »
I have had that runaway with a M3 startup also. I think I fixed it with changing the step/dir active high/low settings. I haven't been playing with that for awhile.
Bill, I'm not using step/dir for my spindle - it is PWM.
Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2015, 08:06:12 AM »
Just about to return the ESS I just bought. Can't get it to operate the spindle at all. Been reading everything I can to try and figure it out, unfortunately most "fixes" are using a Gecko and I am not.
So I can control everything just fine using the parallel port. Problem is I'm having other problems with the parallel port so I figured I'd try the ESS. I have everything working through the ESS except the spindle.
I should Say I tried warp9 support without any reply. Guess he doesn't provide support any better than his documentation.
My setup is mach3 to a Hobbycnc board and a SuperPid for spindle control. I use pin 16 for on/off and 17 for PWM. I'm being told the ESS can only use pin 14 for PWM, so I'm gonna try that but that seems unlikely.
With the settings I have now, I can still control everything through the parallel port. So if I insert the ESS into the mix, I do still get the 5v on the "Run" pin of the SuperPid, and it goes to 0v when mach3 turns on the spindle, but the SuperPid does not turn on the spindle.
In Mach3 spindle setup, I have both M3 and M4 set to output 1. In outputs, output 1 is enabled port 1 pin 16 active low.
Mach3 motor control, "Use Spindle Motor Output" is checked, "PWM Control" is checked with a 50hz base freq.
No other changes to spindle setup tab.
In Motor Outputs, Spindle is enabled, Step port 1 pin 17, Dir port 1 pin 16 Active low.
Motor tuning, spindle set to 1000, 60 and 1 as suggested.

The ESS has all max Step Freq set to 1M as suggested. PWM is checked with a base freq 0f 50Hz.

Anything I'm missing here??

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2015, 09:48:48 AM »
>>Guess he doesn't provide support any better than his documentation.
There have been 30+ posts on the warp 9 forum in recent weeks. When did you try to get help?

>>I'm being told the ESS can only use pin 14 for PWM,
No true, it can output a PWM signal on any output pin.

>The ESS has all max Step Freq set to 1M as suggested.
As suggest by whom? 1mHz is too high for most systems. Take a look at: http://www.soigeneris.com/Document/Warp9/Installing_and_Configuring_the_Ethernet_SmoothStepper.pdf for the formula for calculating the max step frequency for your machine. This has no impact on your spindle issue most likely.

As I recall a lot of folks use a USB cable from the PC to get 5V for the SuperPID. The ESS is isolated from the PC (Ethernet connections are isolated on both ends), and if you are using a separate 5V power supply for the ESS as Warp9 (and I) recommend then you wind up with no common 'ground' (DC Common) between the SuperPID and the ESS.

I also seem to recall there was someone on the Warp9 forum last year who had issues with a SuperPID...

http://warp9td.com/index.php/kunena/7-general-discussion/5182-mach3-ess-g540-superpid?start=18#7327

I think your PWM base frequency might not be right. From the post above and other related posts it looks like the SuperPID requires a 1000Hz (1kHz) base frequency.


Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 
Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2015, 10:36:49 AM »
>>Guess he doesn't provide support any better than his documentation.
There have been 30+ posts on the warp 9 forum in recent weeks. When did you try to get help?

I emailed the support address. No reply.

Quote
>>I'm being told the ESS can only use pin 14 for PWM,
No true, it can output a PWM signal on any output pin.

I thought as much, seemed odd to lock it to one pin.

Quote
>The ESS has all max Step Freq set to 1M as suggested.
As suggest by whom?

The ESS Manual. The Warp9 website. I guess you can say the developer of the ESS.

Quote
1mHz is too high for most systems. Take a look at: http://www.soigeneris.com/Document/Warp9/Installing_and_Configuring_the_Ethernet_SmoothStepper.pdf for the formula for calculating the max step frequency for your machine. This has no impact on your spindle issue most likely.

As I recall a lot of folks use a USB cable from the PC to get 5V for the SuperPID. The ESS is isolated from the PC (Ethernet connections are isolated on both ends), and if you are using a separate 5V power supply for the ESS as Warp9 (and I) recommend then you wind up with no common 'ground' (DC Common) between the SuperPID and the ESS.

I also seem to recall there was someone on the Warp9 forum last year who had issues with a SuperPID...

http://warp9td.com/index.php/kunena/7-general-discussion/5182-mach3-ess-g540-superpid?start=18#7327

I think your PWM base frequency might not be right. From the post above and other related posts it looks like the SuperPID requires a 1000Hz (1kHz) base frequency.

So are you saying it needs a common ground or it doesn't?? I have all components grounded together, can't understand why anyone would suggest otherwise.
As for the base freq, that comes right from the SuperPID manual. 50hz. But I tried 1k as it was the default for the ESS anyway, still no good.
As for the forum post you linked to , I'm not a member of that forum and I doubt I will be joining but the title says Gecko so I don't think it would apply to me anyway as I don't use a Gecko and that changes a lot. My spindle control is coming directly from Mach3, so with the ESS, it would be directly from the ESS to the SuperPID, not going through any other BOB's.

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2015, 11:03:38 AM »
>>I emailed the support address. No reply.
A manufacturer can get 100+ support emails a day. Your email may also have been caught in a spam filter, the replay to you may have been caught in a spam filter and there may have been email server problems. I have had all of these happen to me when trying to communicate with my customers in the last 5 years.

>>So are you saying it needs a common ground or it doesn't??
>>I have all components grounded together, can't understand why anyone would suggest otherwise
Because you generally don't want everything 'grounded' together. The Ethernet cable provides isolation from PC to ESS. This helps prevent electrical noise from getting back to the PC and also prevent ground loop issues between machine/control and PC. The term 'ground' can mean 'Earth Ground', i.e. the ground rod driven into the Earth that your AC breaker box is tied to and it can also mean 'DC Common', i.e. the negative/return/common side of the DC circuit. Earth Ground and DC Common are different things and should not be intermixed.

>>As for the forum post you linked to , I'm not a member of that forum and I doubt I will be joining
So you won't join the support form for the manufacturer of the equipment you are trying to install. But you will come on here and complain about not getting any support form them? That makes NO sense to be honest with you. If you would bother to read the post I linked to and perhaps even use the forums 'Search' tool you might learn something. It makes no different to the SuperPID where the PWM signal is coming from. Since you are not using a BOB how are you connecting the ESS with the SuperPID?
Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 
Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2015, 11:13:13 AM »
>>I emailed the support address. No reply.
A manufacturer can get 100+ support emails a day. Your email may also have been caught in a spam filter, the replay to you may have been caught in a spam filter and there may have been email server problems. I have had all of these happen to me when trying to communicate with my customers in the last 5 years.

Or maybe he just isn't replying. Any of the above is possible.

Quote
>>As for the forum post you linked to , I'm not a member of that forum and I doubt I will be joining
So you won't join the support form for the manufacturer of the equipment you are trying to install. But you will come on here and complain about not getting any support form them? That makes NO sense to be honest with you. If you would bother to read the post I linked to and perhaps even use the forums 'Search' tool you might learn something. It makes no different to the SuperPID where the PWM signal is coming from. Since you are not using a BOB how are you connecting the ESS with the SuperPID?

So you're saying emailing for support is not acceptable??Why would I have to join a forum I don't want to join? That makes no sense to me.
As I said, the ESS is connected directly to the SuperPID on the pins being used. So pin 16 from the ESS goes to the RUN input, Pin 17 from ESS goes to the PWM input.
Reading a post from a someone who uses a Gecko will do me no good.

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2015, 11:22:23 AM »
I am saying that you should avail yourself of multiple avenues when needing help. Support forums are great because chances are if you have a question someone else has already had that same question and had it answered on the forum so you can search the forum and find the answer you need most of the time. Again, it DOES NOT matter if the PWM signal went from the ESS 'through' the G540 to the SuperPID. The SuperPID has no idea, and in either case the ESS is generating the signal and has no idea what is receiving the signal. have you tried to measure that you are getting the PWM signal at the SuperPID?
Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 
Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2015, 09:10:48 PM »
As an update for anyone else having problems with the ESS and SuperPID combo, I got on/off to work by powering both units from the same source. I used the USB port on the pc first, worked fine. Now I have them both powered from a 5v 2a power supply and they are still working fine. Came down to the SuperPID manual saying that the Pid MUST be connected to the pc, well, now the ESS sends all teh signals so it needs to be connect to the ESS.

Still didn't have PWM working. So I kept trying things. I got it working but I didn't know why so I tried to undo what I did and redo it to see if it will work again. I don't want some system that works sometimes but no one knows why! So I could not get it going again. Then I changed the Mach3 motor control to Step/Dir. Works every time now. I did notice the data monitoring would not show the spindle checked (in jogging section) even though the actual spindle was working. This was when PWM didn't work. Every time the spindle jogging WAS checked, PWM worked.

This is a very weird device and for the monety he's getting for it, there should be a lot more concrete documentation about it. Goes to show that even the developer can't get the thing to 'just work'.

Oh and the motor tuning part... it's BS. Doesn't make a bit of difference.
Re: Mach3/USB SmoothStepper will not control spindle speed
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2015, 10:53:27 PM »
Are you trying use the spindle speed PID in Mach 3? If so turn it off and also delete any file in the Mach 3 folder/macro folder called 'linearity.dat'.

The SmoothStepper just generates pules, just like the parallel port. The only difference is that for a PWM spindle you can set the acceleration. The SmoothStepper and parallel port both adjust the output in a linear fashion, i.e. 50% speed output is a 50% duty cycle square wave output. Any non-linearity is the result of your speed controller/motor. The spindle speed PID Mach 3 is a function of the parallel port driver and it can help with non-linearity problems (sometimes it works OK and sometimes it does not). It does not work with an external device so if you have it turned on or have a linearity .dat file it will screw things up.
Jeff,
You said that you had turned off the PID in the file you posted for me, I haven't checked as I do not know anything about the PID!  ???
What is the PID and how do I turn it off if it is set? I know where the settings are for it (I think) but that's all, the numbers in the boxes and the check box combinations are a dark art as far as I am concerned.
What do the letters P I D stand for?
I will check for the presence of a linearity.dat file
As I have said before a few times, my speed controller works consistently and flawlessly under Parallel Port control (and still does if I try it) so there is no question of the speed controller or the motor being at fault.

Thanks,
Dave.

Well,
I didn't get any reply to my last post (above) about PID, or any further information from anyone, so here's the latest.
I checked for a linearity.dat file and deleted it. Tried all sorts of things after that but could not get to the point where the USB SS would control spindle speed any better than I had previously got it, in other words, not acceptable.
Interestingly, no matter what I did, a linearity.dat file always reappeared in the macro folder.
I hinted in an earlier post that I was thinking of buying a UC300 USB controller  (http://cncdrive.com/UC300.html) and maybe buying their software too (http://cncdrive.com/UCCNC.html).
I got so disillusioned with the SS I finally recently bought both cncdrive products. I'm still getting to know everything but so far it seems to beat the Mach3/SS combo hands down.
SS was a good concept and market leader but I'm afraid the seeming lack of support (and documentation) has let it down.

Dave.