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vmax549

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NEW WIZARD IDEA
« on: February 27, 2006, 08:24:29 AM »
Brian you guys need to invent/design/market a

Conversational VB Scriting Wizard.

If you can make Mach do all these nifty things that it does, surely you could whip up another "simple" wizard for us mere mortal need to be but can't programmers??????? (;-) Terry

ynneb

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Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2006, 11:35:51 PM »
I hear what you are saying, sort of like a html editor where you see what you are doing without having to get down and dirty with the code. Nice Idea, I wonder how hard it would be though.
Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2006, 05:47:06 AM »
It makes my head hurt to think about it...
Fixing problems one post at a time ;)

www.newfangledsolutions.com
www.machsupport.com

vmax549

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Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2006, 11:12:29 AM »
Brian there used to be a DATABASE language years ago that was conversational in nature. It worked great for non programers. It did not last long through it got bought up by a corporate giant.  You really need to think about this. One of the greastest problem faced by mach uses today is the need to be able to write scripts and macros. There is a incredible amount of talent out here using Mach but most are like me, they come up with an idea, get started to impliment it and BANG run right into that wall again. If you could build a conversational programming interface you will open up a new world of CNC. Users would flock to mach for a low cost retrofit and easy implimentation.  Think about it there are only so many functions really needed.   Let's see Art and Brian relaxing on a sunny beach in Cuba sipping on a cool one!

(:-)= Terry    PS: I want the first copy, and don't forget the DOCUMENTATION.

Offline Graham Waterworth

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Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2006, 04:47:33 PM »
Hi Folks,

as a programmer of some 25 years I don't get the logic in this request.

If you don't understand how to string together a list of control commands how can you possibly sequence a conversational system.  You have to understand what you want to do and how to achieve it before a conversational system can be used.  The list of options for each selection would be huge and how could you decide which one you needed if you did'nt undestand the function.

A standard CNC control e.g. Fanuc with conversational input has a limited number of functions for programming the NC code, but has no control of the machine functions e.g. tool changer, limit switches etc. , this is controlled by the PC side of the system, this is custom written for each machine tool by the manufacturer and presented to the user as a ladder diagram that is read only.

Any system that has limitless possibilities is impossible to convert to questions and graphics, hence VB script.

You could possibly learn VB script quicker than a conversational system that can not do all you require.

Regards

Graham.
Without engineers the world stops

ynneb

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Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2006, 06:10:43 PM »
Graham, you are right, I guess it is just wishful / playful thinking.

Thats probably why Bill gates did so well, when he made windows do pictorially, what used to be done through typing Dos commands. It would be a huge task, and as you say, easier to learn VB script.

vmax549

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Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2006, 06:39:51 PM »
Graham, with you being a programmer you cannot possibly understand the frustration of not having the Programmers Gene as we call it. I can tell you exactly how it should be done and most of the commands used, draw you a ladder diagram, and tell you in squedo term how it suppose to work. But I cannot string together the logical expressions to make the code work/flow, I get lost every time. Bin at it for about 20 years and I am no closer today then 20 years ago of being able to do it. My wife suffers the same missing gene, she works in Civil engineering GIS and has the same problem in complex queries/macros. Her drafting side is a work of Art. Programmer,not!
(:-)= Terry

vmax549

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Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2006, 06:48:20 PM »
Graham for an example of the converstional part take a look at some of the Control/data aquisition software. They use x control moduals you simply place a control relay in place and answer a few questions concerning leads and function and hookup and it will write the integration code and apply it to the screen you are using. That I can do, write the actual code, won't happen.  (:-)= Terry

Offline Graham Waterworth

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Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2006, 05:41:25 AM »
Hi Terry,

I here what you are saying, but you have to realize that if you were all using exactly the same hardware with exactly the same setup it would be possible to create a program to create macros as the number of options would be much reduced.

How many different tool changer option would there be?

Is it :-

1. Electric

    1.1 How is tool one indexed
          a. encoder
          1.1.a. Encoder type
                   a. rotary
                       1.1.a.a Logic type
                                  a. incremental
                                  b. absolute
                   b. Etc.   
          b. limit switch
          1.1.b. Is the limit switch
                    a. NO
                    b. NC
          c. manual
          d. Etc....

    1.2 How is the tool count indexed
          a. encoder
          b. limit switch
          c. manual
          d. Etc...
    1.3 How many tools

2. hydraulic
3. pneumatic
4. manual
5. electro/hydraulic
6. electro/pneumatic


This is a very tiny example of the type of thing you would need to build in the background of the program. 

20 lines of questions and still nowhare near a result.

The logic table for this type of program would run in to megabytes.

I am not saying its not possible, just not viable, it would take years to perfect and never be finished.

Graham.
Without engineers the world stops

vmax549

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Re: NEW WIZARD IDEA
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2006, 10:03:03 AM »
Good morning Graham,

The way the other programs see it is that a relay is a relay, a mpg is a mpg, they basically all work the same. Of course you have to tell it the logic ladder, they give you a blank ladder to fill out.

Take a tool changer for example, they" basically" all work the same. The ladder is different from model to model, the components very in number and type.

As an example my son took LABVEIW and built a control panel piece by piece adding in all the components. That panel was to run a very complex machine process. He filled out the ladder logic and answered a few questions on the components and the Labview wrote all the  code for the process panel to work. He dropped in the Guages/ controls  he wanted to see and what the monitor points were and pressto instant control panel.

Now I have a simple mind but it would seem the CNC machines have a fairly simple basic structure in how they work. A relay is faily simple it is either NC or NO, A solenoid is either on or off, A mpg is quad output, two signals, ETC. Mach already does the hard part.

Labveiw has a free demo package, try it sometime. See what you think.

Just a though for the future. (;-) Terry