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Author Topic: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions  (Read 13423 times)

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Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2007, 04:51:16 PM »
I took a bunch of pictures today that i will put on when I get home tonight. I also have a call in to Gecko about whether or not their drives will adequetly power my servos. If i do end up having to keep my servo drives because it would be not cost effective to purchase new ones, i like the looks of those pixie boards. I also have a copy of the wiring diagram i will put in PDF format and post so you guys can check it out. I also got ahold of the users manual for the spindle drive that i can post in PDF format. It's a Control Techniques V400 Flux Vector AC Motor Control and Drive with a max capacity for 4kW motors. That means my spindle is likely 5HP, or maybe 5.5HP. Tomorrow morning i'm gonna take some of the paneling off to get a better look at the inner workings of the tool changer, the limit switches, and the spindle motor.
Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2007, 10:12:46 PM »
OK, here goes pictures and then I will explain all i learned today.

here's pics of the 2 machines from the front. They're identical. I think the serial numbers are even close.



Now each machine has 2 control cabinets, one on each side of the machine. Here's one side. It houses the spindle drive, some contactors and relays, and a big honkin ass transformer. Then there's a closeup of the spindle drive. I have the manual on it. I actually had to call 3 different companies and make my way up to "level 3" tech support before someone could help me. The level 1 guy didnt even try and the level two guy tried a little but then admitted he had no idea about the product i was trying to get info on.




Here's the other side. It houses the actual control components, axis drives, DC power supply, a smaller transformer, and a buttload of wiring.



Here's a closeup of the axis drives. I actually took one out and got some info that was slikscreened onto it. i shouldve taken a pic when i had it out. It's made by Motion Science, Inc. of San Jose, CA. I think they have been absorbed into Cleveland Motion Controls who i plan to call tomorrow.



Here's a pic of one of the axis servos, the Z axis particularly. It has a tachometer and a 3 channel differential encoder. I will call SEM tomorrow as well to get some more info on it, since their website, http://www.sem.co.uk, sucks.



Lastly we got a pic of the inside of the machine looking up at the tool changer.




Now onto what i've learned today. I dont think gecko drives are gonna cut the mustard with these servos. I have, however, found Rutex R2020 drives, at only a little more $$ per pop to be a little more beefy. 200V at 40A beefy. So i think i'm gonna buy 3 of those guys. I still don't know whether or not i wanna do mach3 or flashcut. Flashcut looks more user friendly, but mach3 looks more versitile. I've downloaded mach 3 to start playing with it. That takes care of my axis drives.

I'd still like to use a G-rex g100 motion controller to deal with all my ins and outs, limits spindle speed and communication with the rutex drives. Anyone see a problem with this that i dont? It should have enough to deal with everything. tool changes, coolant, limits and homes, and the spindle. i hope.

Later on i will PDF my wiring diagrams and the manual to the Vector drive that i worked so hard to get and post them up here for all to check out. This is turning out to be very interesting.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2007, 10:17:33 PM by engineeringpunk »
Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2007, 10:27:54 PM »
Honestly I would use the pixies. The motors and drivers are a tuned matched set. Save some money and the headache of rewiring. You will gain nothing by going with new motors. Then you have to spend time to tune them if you use new drivers.

Either that or a Galil card. That will give your analog out to the drivers.

The VFD should take a 0-10v in. I used a little card from http://www.cnc4pc.com that converts step/dir signal into a signal for the vfd. You should be able to use the analog output of the grex  for this as well. Or at least someday.

I just spent the $ today and ordered my Grex.
Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2007, 10:35:33 PM »
i think if you saw these axis drives up close you would understand why i wanna replace them. they are notoriously unreliable. very expensive to replace. the one that i pulled out had replaced resistors on it from some prior repair job. I like the SEM motors, but i think i want rid of these drives. I'll keep the big DC power supply for the motors. as far as i know it works ok, and i'm not sure where to find a high voltage, high amperage DC power supply. I'd rather buy my whole new control knowing that all the pieces will mesh well and retune the motors than base my whole control off of the fact that i have analog motor drives from 1991 that are going to be near impossible to replace if one goes for good. If i put in Rutex drives, and one breaks, a replacement, even if it isnt a rutex, wont be difficult to locate. If my logic is crappy here, please tell me.
Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2007, 08:42:18 AM »
If that was me I would do the following...
Go to automation direct and look at there 1kw med inertia drives, motors and cables. it will be about 1500 and axis but you will never have an other problem if you do this... OR you could look at the CNC Teknix drives. I will be testing one soon on an SEM motor like the one that you have.

Best of luck
Brian
Fixing problems one post at a time ;)

www.newfangledsolutions.com
www.machsupport.com

Offline zarzul

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Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2007, 09:46:37 AM »
Zack,

Your logic on putting drives in that you can find replacement parts if they fail is right on the money.  Might cost a bit more in the short run but it wouldn't be a very good project if you retrofitted interface and then the old drivers burnt out and now you would be stuck.

I am a hobby user of Mach3 and would recommend you go with it.  The reason is simple, it has a lot more user controllable configurations, down to the point of customizing it using visual basic, and custom screens.  It might have a little steeper learning curve but that is mostly due to the numerous ways you can configure it.

Arnie

Hood

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Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2007, 04:53:53 PM »
I think you are wasting your time with these machines, you would be better crating them up and sending them to  me for proper disposal ;)
Hood
Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2007, 06:53:15 AM »
I would try a (galil or baldor) pci-2 card, a pc, and if you need new motors you can get them on eBay... You can buy big servos cheaper than smaller ones... If I had to have a new motion controller I would use a galil... I have a new system from Low Cost Retro, it runs mach 3, I have a 4 axis galil running camsoft... I like them both... I am also in the process of doing the same as you except my project is a Fanuc S-420 robot.

The Mach 3 will run galil so the software is not any more that the small hobby guys use..
Have a great day (weekend).

BTW: I have vista on a new lap top and it is no good... I guess for an office guy it would be great... It does not like doing multiple tasks..

Later PC
Hey THANKS 4 all the help in advance. I'll need more than you'll ever expect!!!


www.cravenpottery.com
Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2007, 11:51:37 PM »
Also look in the BP, I think they used a galil... or it is a delta tau.

If it is a galil you could just run it from Mach3 and not rewire the mil ;)

Fixing problems one post at a time ;)

www.newfangledsolutions.com
www.machsupport.com

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: First Post, First Machine, LOTS of questions
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2007, 03:52:04 PM »
I was kind of wondering if this ever whent anywhere?  I have the same will in my lab that we are giving to another department and I am going to retrofit it for Mach III.  From reading this and other posts about the Galil 18x2 boards and Grex, it looks like the Galil might be the way to go. The Grex analog outputs are only 8 bit resolution so I would have to us it's SD outputs and something like Pixe's to control the analog drives.  Considering that fact that both the Pixe's and Grex would want acccess to the encoder signals (I think Grex does) I can't see how that would work; please correct me if I'm wrong. (I think I'll contact Gecko and ask  :) ).

Here is the cost breakdown of both options as I see it:

Gecko:        $400                                  Galil: DMC-1842         $1200
Pixe's: (4)      320                                  64 bit I/O expansion     200     
                    ------                                                               ---------
                    720                                                                  1400

So from a initail price the Galil is about twice as much but the Grex might not be able to do the job, any input?
Happy machining , Jeff Birt