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Author Topic: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)  (Read 34244 times)

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2013, 01:56:26 AM »
Hey Hood, Sorry to bombard you with all these questions but I sure do appreciate the help. It will be great to see this in action once it is done. Along with the Proximity switch I am trying to tie in the last of the spindle control. The spindle speed control signal says it takes a 0 to +/- 12v analog but the CSMIO only has +/- 10v analog. Does that hook to the analog +/- 10v or the analog 0-10v output. And will it affect the actual speed since it is 10v instead of the 12v that it was originally.
Apollo ll

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2013, 03:46:39 AM »
Ok looked at the pdf, thanks Ya-Nvr-No. On page 3 it looks like you would want diagram 1 for your prox, ie NO Positive.
So
br1 to 24v supply
bk4 to input on CSMIO
bl3 to 0v

Regarding the spindle drive, if it is looking for a +/- analogue signal then you would use the Spindle Axis options found under Special Functions tab, see below for screenshot of my setup.
Also make sure you do not have Spindle Speed Averaging set on Ports and Pins, Spindle Setup, if you do the RPM will not read correctly in Mach.

Regarding the +/- 12 for your drive, it is likely you can scale the input voltage in the drives parameters so that 10v would be full rpm.
Hood

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2013, 11:44:12 PM »
Hood,
Can you tell me what the wires leading from the CMOSIO CAN bus on your Chiron are for  (in the photos they are leading off the encoder module CAN)? I thought that they only connected to more modules, so I was surprised to see a cable coming off it, but no obvious destination. I've got the IP-A on it's way, along with four I/O modules, so I'm starting to map things out and figure out what the possibilities are with these controllers (perhaps beyond what my machine is already set up for). If that CAN connection can be useful for something other than modules, I'd be curious to know.

The tool changer on that Chiron is about the fastest I've seen, particularly because of how fast you have the rapids set up on that thing! It certainly does not look it's age, so great job! I used to have a machine that had two opposing heads, which also had a very fast tool change. In that case, it put the tool in one head, which was upside down and away from the work, while the other head was busy cutting. As soon as the "in use" head finished, the heads flipped over and the new tool was ready to go while the other head got the next tool pre-loaded. It was a bit of a pain to program, since you had to make a tool call for the next tool you will need, not the one you currently need since whatever is in the upside down head is what will cut next. Basically, you had to call for the first two tools before you could even start cutting by doing two consecutive tool changes (T1 and T2 for example). That would get you started with T1 while T2 would be waiting in the other head. When you finally need T2, you had to make a tool change to T3 in order to bring T2 down to work while T1 is replaced with T3 (arbitrary tool numbers of course).

-Mike

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2013, 03:13:04 AM »
Mike you can only use the CanBUS for connecting to modules. I have a MPG module and an  extra I/O module up in the operator panel, see pic below of partially done panel.


Sounds like a very interesting machine you had, what make/model was it?

Hood

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2013, 04:39:45 AM »
Thanks Hood! It had occurred to me after the last post that there may have been a remote module somewhere requiring a longer cable that I didn't see in the other pictures. Thanks for the info.

The machine was a late 80's SCM Routomat (router, I deal mostly in wood and plastic fabrication). They came with a lot of different head configurations and I think that I would have preferred a standard 10 tool carousel/single head config in retrospect. Mine had a 6 tool linear rack positioned above the upside-down head. I tried many different software packages within my budget ($5000 or less) and none of them could properly post-process code for the changer, so the carousel would have made life a little easier. I think your changer is faster than mine was, mostly because the Z rapid on the original NUM 750 controller left something to be desired. ;) If the Z could have rapid traversed up to 0 at 400ipm, it would be pretty similar. As it was, 200ipm was about the limit with that controller and servo combination. It's really amazing to see how fast your machine is moving the Z axis given the amount of weight I suspect it has to position (I assume there is some amount of pneumatics helping do the actual lifting?). That tool changer has got to weight a lot!

-Mike

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2013, 05:49:59 AM »
No there is only a servo motor on the Z, no air assist or counterweight.
The motor is geared 2:1 to the screw and the screw is 10mm pitch so 4000rpm motor and 20,000mm/min rapids as per the original setup.
 Toolchanges can actually be quicker as the last owner screwed the dampers on the main up/down cylinders up a bit and I have just left it at that. Also I could programme each Z move for each particular tool so that I do not have to move so far to change but as I am not doing production work the extra second or two per toolchange doesnt matter to me.

Hood

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2013, 09:19:06 PM »
I think most people would be thrilled to have a tool change that fast as it is. I once had a job where I cut out about 1000 oval cribbage boards, some made out of walnut and some out of man-made for paint (MDF). It required 5 tools to run and there were 128 holes (including both two tracks and some peg holders at each end). There was also a storage pocket with thumb wells to pick the lid off the pocket, which had a second pocket creating a ledge for the lid. There was also a detail around the top outer rim of the oval. The fastest I could produce them ended up being approx. 5 minutes each, and with a 1300x2600 table I could fit quite a few on there at a time given they were about 8 inches at the widest part of the ellipse. The tool change made all the difference in that case since saving 4 or 5 seconds per tool adds up to almost 7 hours of production time. I imagine a tool changer like yours would have saved another 3 hours on top of that (and I really thought mine was quite fast). My main obstacle ended up being the code, since the NUM 750 only had about 80kb of memory available and no drip feed option. The NUM is a conversational controller though, and I was able to program a loop back through some incremental code (the cribbage board portion), and then switch to absolute to reposition to the next blank.

My current machine is set up with 1000RPM Sanyo San-Driver servos. Both my last machine and this one have had the servos maxed out at far less than the full rated RPMs. This current machine runs in rapid at a max of 750rpms in X and Y, with only 650rpms in the Z. I've always wondered if the manufacturers are just playing it exceedingly safe, or are the servos more likely to fail if run at full rated speed? I also figured that there may be other reasons for the lower RPMs,  such as the encoders used combined with the age of the controllers. Do you think that it would be safe to run the servos at full rated RPMs with the CMSIO? I'm sure that from a computing power standpoint, it should be light-years faster than what it's replacing, and I would think that if a company such as Sanyo rates the motor at 1000RPMs, then it probably already has some built in headroom over what they could actually withstand reliably. I would love to be able to run the machine at 20,000mm/min (X,Y) and 10,000mm/min (Z) as that would be a bit more than an incremental improvement over the current speeds with no additional cost.

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2013, 03:29:08 AM »
I would imagine if a manufacturer rates a speed as continuous then that is exactly what it is and really shouldnt shorten the life of the motor.
 What may have been the problem is the control had a max frequency it could read, ie if your encoder input was too high due to the RPMs then the control may not be able to handle that.
 The CSMIO has 3MHz capability for the encoder inputs, on the Chiron I am using only 1MHz (15,000 counts per rev and 4000rpm) and on the spindle I am using just over 2MHz
 Originally I had the drives at the default 4096 lines per rev encoder output and although it worked well things were definitely smoother and tighter when I increased the resolution as the control could correct much more quickly.

Hood

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2013, 05:15:19 PM »
I won't be making the CSMIO even breath hard then. My encoders are Sumtak Optcoders with only 500p/r, though I'm not sure if a 4x multiplier would apply to them as I'm having trouble finding any documentation on them. Even then, I'd only be producing 333khz at 1000rpms. I think it would be surprising if the original controller was able to keep up with half of that, which probably does explain the feedrates.

Mike

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Re: First impressions of CSMIO/IP-A (analogue output version)
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2013, 05:27:27 PM »
Yes I would think it will be 2000 counts per rev.
Hood