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Unusual problem
« on: March 16, 2009, 07:57:51 AM »
Hi all,

I have had Mach3 running successfully for about 12 months now on my router without a (software) hitch.  I have had missed steps in the past, but nothing like the problem I am about to attempt to explain.....

I was running a program today which I had to run 19 times.  It was a bulk part that I had to make.  Anyway, I got to about run 17 or so and the program went haywire.  It moved part of the program from one Y position to another - About 350mm or so!  It had ran great for all previous runs and I did nothing different on that particular run.  It just went all weird.

Anyway, I brushed it off as 'one of those things' and continued on.  Sure enough on a different run later in the day, it did it again.  This time it had only run about 3 previous times when it did a similar thing - Moved from one Y position to another.

On both occasions, I checked the toolpath display and it was displaying the unusual behavior which leads me to believe that my program has become corrupt.

Can anyone shed any light on this issue?  Or has anyone else had this problem?  I haven't installed any software in the last 4 or 5 months and my machine runs daily.

Thanks in advance,

MikDundee

Offline Leed3

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Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 01:35:05 PM »
It sounds like a hardware problem. If the file is showing as being corrupt on the pc then I would suspect the hard drive is failing especially since you say that you run it every day.
Other possible causes:
1. A program is running such as Antivirus, software update check, etc that happens to be running periodically when you are in Mach.
2. The memory is failing.
3. The power supply is failing.
4. A Virus.

If your hard drive is over about 3 years old and has been run daily then it is nearing the end of its life.  There are free programs on the net that will check memory besides the fact that you should remove and reinsert them a couple of times to get them to seat well.  If it happens again you can immediately go to the Task Manager and look for any programs that are taking up a lot of resources.

I do not have my computer connected to the net while I am using it to machine.

Good luck,
Lee
Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 12:23:52 PM »
Hi Lee,

I am not so sure about your answer....

Last weekend I tried the most recent development version Mach3 R3.043.000.
While my original setup (Mach3VersionR2.60) always ran absolutely stable, I encoutered severe problems.

First, there was a change in X position after a multiple run of the cirular pocket wizzard. The machine was just 1.24mm off the position where it should be. As I am using servos and the  servo controller did not report any overruns or Gray Errors,  I could not find any suitable explanation.
This was a one-time effect and I was unable to reproduce it.
Later on, doing some moves with MDI,  I zeroed X (button) and did a G1 X1 F50. The machine ran away full speed to -X killing my workpiece and tool. It was not an elctrical problem, I could stop the movement by pressing ESC !

I am not sure if it could have some relation to my usage of offsets which is relatively new to me. But in my understanding, I am always moving in the system of my displayed DRO koordinates.

Best regards
Uli



Offline Leed3

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Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 01:13:09 PM »
Hi,

I thought that your G-Code file was changing.  Your first description of the problem sounded like a hardware problem or an electrical signal getting into your system.  In your second descriuption, you indicated that you were running at F50.  Do you need to go that fast?  Yes, offsets could be causing your second problem.
This is how I would approach the problem:
1. Make sure I have good electrical signal (no interference - motors on seperate line from computer).
2. Get a memory test program from the net and test memory multiple times.
3. Run Mach G Code program multiple times without anything connected to the parallel port looking to see if anything is changing in the GCode file or if the DROs and are showing the expected results.
4. Try running the code in a program such sa CNC Simulator (http://www.cncsimulator.com/)
5. Go back to earlier version and see if problem goes away.
6. Remove any breakout boxes or Smooth Stepper and try cutting air.
7. Consider possible problem with servos or wiring - check and swap.

If I checked all those things , one of them should give me an indication of the source of the problem.  The worst thing is when you have more than one problem.  For example, it may be that you have to go back to an earlier version of Mach, do not use offsets and have poor connection to one of the servos.

Good luck,
Lee
Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 02:53:29 PM »
Grrrrrrrr. Session timeout after writing all the stuff - MACH is so much better than this forum software.......
Once again.

Lee,

if there was a code change in the first incident, I would be unable to check because the code was generated by a wizard and not saved.
A code change in memory would be a severe issue though....

In the second case, I'd exclude any electrical problems. The machine ran for 2 years without any problem. No breakout boxes, SmoothSteppers or other fancy  hardware involved. And there is no way that an electrical problem could change a slow move (F50 is 50mm/min, not really fast...) to a fast move to the other direction that could be stopped by ESC. It was definitely a false pulse stream.
What I cannot exclude is an incompatibility of my existing PC board (Intel D201GLY) with the newest MACH development version.
Or an interference with my old MACH setup.

A code simulator would not help here. It was no program but just a single line in MDI.

I'll not go back to the old version until the error reoccurs. If the reason is within my machine, it would kill my work anyways, old or new version. If it is in the new version, I'd never get an answer. But I decided to reinstall the PC to exactly the same software version s from scratch to exclude any windows reasons.

And I'll check memory of course.

Best regards
Uli


« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 02:55:28 PM by ulihuber »
Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 03:49:24 PM »
Just a quick update on my situation........

My problem has gotten significantly worse and is now doing it on almost every job I run.  I saw it do it 3 times yesterday and it also did it once while I was out of the machine area, and I only did 5 runs yesterday.  The one run that was OK was the very first run.

When it does happen, the toolpath display shows where it should be cutting, however it also shows it cutting in the wrong place.  (We are cutting basic shapes and it is easy to see where things are going wrong).  When I did a regen of the toolpath, the incorrect path disappeared and the correct path was displayed again.  It is like it is missing steps or offsetting the program at that point, but I can generally hear when it misses steps and it doesn't appear to be missing any steps.  I have tried different programs and the problem is always present.

I pulled the PC apart yesterday, re-seated the RAM and all cards and connectors and gave it a general clean out.  But, it still is playing up.  The end result is that I have ordered new components for the PC - Motherboard, CPU, RAM Hard Drive.  These should arrive tomorrow and will hopefully fix the problem.

In response to Leed3, I am not running any anti-virus programs and the system is not on the net.  It is a dedicated system for the machine.  And although I stated that it does run daily, it only runs about 2 or 3 hours each day, depending on our orders.
Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 06:02:04 PM »
OK, new test same trouble...

First picture: starting from Z=0 (DRO) I entered G1 Z-5 F300. Result was a fast move (apx F5000) down to Z-42.28

Second picture: Starting from X=0, Z=1.3370 I entered G1 Z-5. While Z was not moved, X made a fast move to 60.0940

Strange thing in addition: continous jog changed to step mode. The display stayed at cont. Changing to step and back to cont did not change the habit of jog movement. It stayed in step mode:
Picture 4

Jost for more information: Picture 3 with my offsets

Something is definitely wrong with this version or compatibility with my machine.


Best regards
Uli

PS: How can I insert pictures in the text ?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 03:37:57 AM by ulihuber »

Offline Leed3

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Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 12:20:29 AM »
Hi Guys,

Check this out:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/106557

2 things to look at in the thread: 1.hyperthreading and 2. corrupted folder.

Note: When changing from an older version of Mach to a new version, sometimes you just have to recreate the XML file (redo the settings). 

Also note this thread:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/106375

2 things to look at in the thread: 1. breakout boards and 2. XML file.

Sorry guys, but between my previous suggestions and these, I am all out of ideas.

Good Luck,
Lee
Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2009, 11:13:49 AM »
Just a little update.

It was impossible to work with these problems. I switched back to the latest stable version.

Uli
Re: Unusual problem
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 11:24:09 PM »
Mik, did you ever figure out your problem?  My problem sounds a lot like yours and a lot less like ulihuber's.  If you want my problem details:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,14430.new.html#new