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Messages - fdos

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Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Eagle KM-750..Anilam Crusader GX-M
« on: January 07, 2007, 05:16:30 PM »
635??   Well thats going to be 2540 pulse per turn of the ballscrew or 12700 pulses required per inch.  Quadrature encoders output 4 times their rated lines per rev value.   635 cant be the total count as 635/4 is not an integer.

So at Machs max pulse rate of 45Khz for the printer port you will get (45000/12700)*60 = 212"/min. at 25Khz 118"/min.

I think you may have to eventually go for an external motion device to get back your 400"/min, like the G100 or NC-Pod or simiilar.  Or lose some resolution and use a drive with a pulse multiplier.


Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Eagle KM-750..Anilam Crusader GX-M
« on: January 07, 2007, 04:44:40 PM »
The drives will be analogue velocity signal or at least normally on commercial machines they will be 99.9% of the time.

If the drives are good, then you will need some data and 3 of the Skyco cards to convert step/dir to a velocity command .  These seem to have a good reputation, and are cheaper than most alternatives.

As Brian said above you could go the whole hog and put Brushless drives and motors on, but that will cost a fair bit.   I see his point, but don't really agree that it's mandatory to making a machine reliable. Brushed systems are equally reliable, but never quite as fast and do every few years require their brushes changed.

400"/min is doable with brushed motors as your original setup proves.   Going much faster would be pretty pointless and scary on an open machine like yours, I'm used to 1500"/min machining centres and even they make me twitchy sometimes!

The limiting factor on your speed will be the resolution of your encoders and the availble pulse rate from Mach.

Have you looked to see what encoders you have?


Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Just got a lathe to retrofit
« on: January 05, 2007, 05:36:02 PM »
Oh c'mon Hood you're racing ahead LOL.   Damn wish I could get these jobs out of the way so I can play too, but those annoying customers keep giving me more work.

What touch screen you using?   I thought about them, but my hands always seem to be dripping in coolant these days, how well do they work in a real workshop enviroment?

I'm trying to get sometime next week to get the Hardinge's upper enclosure grit blasted ready for powder coating.


Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Eagle KM-750..Anilam Crusader GX-M
« on: January 04, 2007, 02:20:52 PM »
Nice machine. Kinda built like a Bridgeport Mk2 Interact.

You'll be ok with the brushed motors, if your drives are still ok you may be able to reuse those too.


Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Yet another Retrofit. Hardinge HXL-S
« on: January 03, 2007, 04:47:24 PM »
LOL Bravo Wayne!

Love the hood ornament on the Champ! Excellent documentation on the restoration, too. Great reading. I brought a '63 Chevy P/U back from the dead much like that. The Willy's, my late Dad bought about 15 years ago for $200 (and was actually built by Ford). I found it in a friend's apple orchard with trees growing out of it. He restored it to full military. I dirve it occaisionally to keep what happened to your Champ from happening to it.

LOL she's now a not so slim 40 something who's just emigrated to Austrailia.

I have not progressed that much as the log stopped when my Daughter was born.   I'll get back to it oneday.   These things are neat but very thirsty(8mpg or so) But the Rolls Royce engine is fantastic.   Oneday I want to try the 5 gears available in REVERSE!



I do understand the basic theory about retro-fitting. It's the details that I am unsure (nervous) about.

To sart with some basic questions:

What is the difference between a DC drive and an AC drive (and motor?) What are the benefits/detractors of each? Can I use my existing stuff (motors, servos, etc.) to keep the cost down? What should I be looking at as far as geckos, break out boards, etc? Obviously, you have Hardinge experience. Would you know exactly what I have on my machine or are there things I need to be looking for (like tags on motors, encoder specifics and such)?

As for the extra room garnered in removing all that GE 1050 controller "stuff", I'm thinking about installing a shop bathroom in the empty enclosure. :)

Well I guess the devil is in the detail.  But don't worry too much about it.

A lot of Hardinge CNC's used a DC spindle motor and drive.   These are quite obvious as they tend to have a tacho fitted to the rear of the motor.

They do work very well, but over the years I have seen a few go bang in a big way!   Also with a lot of this stuff they are getting a bit long in the tooth and it's hard to predict how long it's going to last.

Modern Vector AC drives (VFD's, Inverters, VSD's) have come a long long way.  The 3Kw Siemens one I fitted to my HXL-S Cost a fair bit £1200 or about $2000 that was for a new Iron Framed motor (4 pole) Drive and braking resistor.  The resistor I found I needed later as the basic DC braking in the drive struggled to cope with the high inertia in the spindle drive train (Mainly caused by the air cylinder)

The motor was a drop in replacement after milling the round flange mount to a square one.  That figured though as the original motor although DC was also Siemens.

The original Servo's used tacho feedback, and these have caised me some problems in the past on CHNC's with AB Controls.   These can be replaced with Encoders with some ingenuity.  It may be that you also  have encoders already, just depends on how the machine was built originally.  Mine had both.  tacho's now junked.   The CHNC tacho's were gear driven.

For servo drives I'd now recommend CNC Teknix drives from Australia.  More expensive than Gecko's but a far more sophisticated product.  Support is fanstastic and the Company is a real progressive one.  The drive designer came to visit me recently and I have only good things to say about them.  They have some other real nice stuff coming out soon too ;)

There is more than likely an encoder on the spindle too, and hopefully soon we will have a way to used them with mach for spindle tracking.

My HXL-s Uses a lot of hall effect switches for limits, homes, and various stuff on the turret.  These are 24v devices and you will need to do some level switching to interface with the printer port if thats what you want rto use.  Easy though, a cheap opto and 2k2 resiistor works like a charm.

On that subject i personally prefer to have as much of the original  24v levels as possible on the machine signals. As well as differential signals for encoders and step/dir signals if possible.  Makes for more reliable operation and costs very little to keep the machines the way they were

The turret will eat up some I/O so a plc may be required.  Not anywhere as bad as my VMC's ATC requirements though.

Turret needs 4 outputs for the coils in the valves.  Lock, Up & Index, turret stop engage and retract.  Turret encoder is 4 ouput but this could be decoded down to 2 inputs with simple logic.  It's not BDC output like the CHNC encoder.

There is an additional +z limit for when the tailstock is in use this can be ORed with the stock one.

The flow sensor for the tailstock is there to put the machine in feed hold whilst the quill is moving.

There are various other sensors for low air, lube, spindle lock etc etc..

When mines sorted I'll happily give you all the methods I used!


Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Yet another Retrofit. Hardinge HXL-S
« on: January 03, 2007, 11:56:27 AM »
Argh  Cars!

I'm more interested in the Willy's LOL

I've got a 1952 Austin Champ ever seen one Mark?   Very complex military vehicle.  You can see it here



Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Yet another Retrofit. Hardinge HXL-S
« on: January 03, 2007, 11:54:11 AM »

Finally got a look at your video. It's a "thing of beauty and a joy forever" when things work properly.

If I may ask, where would I start, to learn about retro fitting mine? I am convinced that Mach is the way to go software-wise, but the hardware is confusing.


Well that video was me manually operating the turret with the valves.  I never powered the machine with the original control, as It had been physically damaged before I got the machine.

The sequence the valves are operated in is critical for a correct index.

Retrofiiting is not really very difficult, and there's lots of help available in the Mach Scene.  I'm fairly lucky in that I have been retrofitting machines from a time long before Art started Mach etc.

It does help to run the machine on the original control, which in your case is easy.   I've had to do a few totally blind with no data or anything, and they were certainly a headache to say the least.

Retrofitting with something like mach actually usually makes the machine much simpler than the original machine.  As an example on the Hardinge I was able to completely remove the Wardrobe sized cabinet with double doors which housed the original electronics.  Now I have a tiny enclosure.  It helps that the newer drives etc are a lot smaller.

It need not cost too much either.  I don't do things by halves as a rule, and have less than $3000 investedin the Leadwell VMC, it's already paid that back a few times.  The Hardinge has cost more than I'd have wished, mainly due to it needing new servo motors and belt/pullies, I also chose to change the DC spindle drive for a new Siemens AC motor and Drive.   But I'd reckon it will be paid back within the 1st month or so of use.

I know it's a scary thought, but you can do it with some common sense and good advice.


Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Yet another Retrofit. Hardinge HXL-S
« on: December 31, 2006, 07:57:00 PM »
The valves on yours are different and in a different location, but similar, the flow switch for the tailstock is the same.

Re the turret, are the 4 springs and balls (sprag clutch) still at the base of the turret?   They can be easily lost by the unwary ;)  I remember when I first took off my turret and didn't realise they were there!

I don't actually have any drawings of the turret assembly (do you?)  I think the nylon rack is just there to operate the hall switch.

Did you see the little vid I did of my turret earlier in the thread?   Mine alway overshot a little but by less that one tooth on the location device.  It's ok now the air cushion is better adjusted.


Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: Yet another Retrofit. Hardinge HXL-S
« on: December 31, 2006, 11:01:46 AM »
Amen Brett.

Wayne, yep definitely an HXL, GE 1050 POS with the typical tool turret problems. Intersting about the HXL-S. I didn't know that. I had used an HXL with the CRT display (16C, absolute pristine condition) back when I worked for IBM and I was kind of blinded  by love when I bought this machine sight unseen. The iron is in excellent condition, electronics not so, and my electronic skills are lacking, but I'm learning. I have to, I can't afford to have someone fix it LOL

My HXL-S was actually built in the UK so maybe thats why they are so different.  My old 5C machine was also UK built in the original Feltham factory before Hardinge UK moved to the west country where the HXL-S was made.

What problems you had with the turret?  Not indexing properly?   

These turrets are very fussy about setup, and as the seals wear they often need adjustment especially the Air Cushion.   It's one of the reasons I had decided to renew all the valves and other gear in the valve drawer.  Also the O rings for the crosslide manifold are all new.

If you get around to retrofitting it, I have a fair insight into how it all works and it's sequencing requirements.   Does you valve setup look like the ones in the pics earlier?


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