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11

Third party software and hardware support forums. / MB3 Breakout Board Power Supply

« on: June 18, 2020, 03:42:08 PM »

Hey,

Just recently bought an MB3 breakout board and the manual suggests using a 24V and 3A power supply, will it blow the fuse if I use a 24V with a 6.5 A power supply? The board will use what it needs, so it shouldn't matter with the amperage right?

Just asking for confirmation thank you,

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12

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Mach 4 and 5 Axis CNC

« on: May 27, 2020, 09:13:42 PM »

Hi,

Was just wondering if there was a MB3 equivalent breakout board?

to my knowledge no. The C25 ($30.00) has two ports but it has no opto-isolators or differential outputs etc.
You are effectively required to add a handful of electronic components to make the C25 truly useful
whereas all of that development work and circuitry is included with the MB3. As I posted earlier
the MB3 is the 'lowest risk' solution.

The price difference between the C25 and MB3 is $150, less than half the cost of just one servo....penny pinching
on a breakout board seems ill advised.

Craig

Oh money isn't the issue right now, its finding an American or Canadian supplier for the MB3. My prof doesn't want to order something out of country due to the time constraints right now.

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13

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Mach 4 and 5 Axis CNC

« on: May 27, 2020, 07:20:39 PM »

MB3 ($180) (CNCRoom) has three ports developed (51 IO's) replete with both differential and single ended 24V IO's, opto-isolated inputs, spindle control
features like PWM-to-analogue etc.

Craig

Hey Craig,

Was just wondering if there was a MB3 equivalent breakout board? Something else that you can just attach to the Ethernet smooth stepper without the use of excess wiring via parallel ports.

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14

General Mach Discussion / Re: Mach 4 - MB3 Breakoutboard and DYN2 servo motor driver connection

« on: May 22, 2020, 07:04:12 PM »

The thing is I'll just have to wait to convince my professor, so I just assume he'll go with the DYN2 drives. I might as well figure out how to wire both just incase lol.

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General Mach Discussion / Mach 4 - MB3 Breakoutboard and DYN2 servo motor driver connection

« on: May 22, 2020, 03:27:09 PM »

Hi there,

I have been looking at the two manuals for the MB3 breakout board and DYN2 servo motor driver, and was wondering if someone could help me understand the wiring as I am very new to servos. Am i connecting the pulse and direction to the step and direction from the motor driver to the breakout board only? Also if anyone has their own wiring schematic for just one motor and would be willing to share it, this would be extremely helpful.

Thank you,

Regards,

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16

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Mach 4 and 5 Axis CNC

« on: May 22, 2020, 11:32:39 AM »

So I forgot to mention we live in Canada, and our wall voltage is 110-120 Volts so the Delta servos might be a problem no? I dont think my professor would invest in a step up transformer lol.


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Whoops nevermind, I forgot I could change the power supply from 110Vac to 220Vac lol. Sorry still getting used to all of this.

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17

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Mach 4 and 5 Axis CNC

« on: May 22, 2020, 11:11:52 AM »

So I forgot to mention we live in Canada, and our wall voltage is 110-120 Volts so the Delta servos might be a problem no? I dont think my professor would invest in a step up transformer lol.


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18

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Mach 4 and 5 Axis CNC

« on: May 21, 2020, 04:23:06 PM »

Hi,
if you use Delta servos at my recommendation then you don't need power supplies for the servo drives, they
are 230VAC input.

The Delta servo drive has a 24V output, limited to only 500mA, which is intended for use with signalling between
the breakout board and the drive.

If you use a simple breakout board like a C25 then you will need a 5V power supply for the breakout board and the ESS.
A C25 (or even sipmler C10's) will require some extra circuitry in the form of a level translator transistor/mosfet.
The advantage of the simpler boards is that you have the greatest flexibility but comes at the expense of you having
to provide the little bits of circiutry required.

If you use a more sophisticated MB3 from CNCRoom, then one independant 24VDC power supply will power both the
breakout board and the breakout board will break down 24V to 5V for the ESS.

The MB3 has differential outputs, about 12 of them, especially for high signalling rate to servo drives
which are perfect for you. No extra circuitry required. The MB3 has gained a good reputation beacause it has been well
thought out so that a user requires very little or no electronic skills to achieve a workable solution. That comes at the
expense of flexibility. None the less the MB3 has gained a good following.

If you want to represent to your professor that the 'lowest risk' solution is an MB3. If you need to save pennies then
the C25 is perfectly workable but requires some electronic skill from you.

Craig

Yeah more than likely, we'll be going with the MB3 and the smooth-stepper for the lowest risk solution. It'll put my profs mind at ease lol.

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19

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Mach 4 and 5 Axis CNC

« on: May 21, 2020, 09:27:22 AM »

Hi,


A cheap and effective breakout board is the C25, at only $30.00. It has two ports developed (34 IO's).
Note however they are TTL level, that is 5V. The inputs to the Delta drivers are 24V, being the norm in industrial
equipment. Thus you will need to add a resistor and a transistor/mosfet to effect the level translation. I can help
with cicuit diagrams if you need.

Another alternative is to use a MB3 breakout board from CNCRoom at $180. It has all three ports developed (51 IO's)
and its outputs are 24V tolerant. You are (somewhat) constrained to the architecture that the manufacturer has provided
but is a well balanced mix of inputs and outputs and a mix of differential and single ended. It require but one 24V power
supply and supplies (on board) 5V to the ESS.

Craig

Thanks again Craig, wiring diagrams would be extremely useful at this point. My professor is a stickler for details, so having all the wiring information would be the key to showing him how much better the servos are compared to the steppers. Additionally, are you suggesting getting different power supplies for the servo drivers and the breakout board and ESS?

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20

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Mach 4 and 5 Axis CNC

« on: May 20, 2020, 03:54:26 PM »

Hi,
depending on your budget you might consider AC servos. There are some very cheap Chinese made AC servos but of questionable quality, support and documentation.

Delta (Taiwanese manufactured in China) and DMM (Canadian manufactured in China) are two good quality brands that won't break the bank.

Any decent AC servo of sufficient power will blow ANY stepper into the weeds. They have very generous overload ratings, typically three to four times their rated torque.

As an example I have a 400W B2 series Delta servo. It has a native 160,000 count per rev encoder, 1.27Nm rated, 3.8Nm 10 sec overload at 3000rpm rated or 5000rpm max.
The driver takes 230VAC single phase input, ie no power supply required. The programmable drive has an overwhelming multitude of control modes which makes them superbly
flexible for just about any machine for any purpose. The servo/drive/cables/shipping to the US will cost about $380 from various EBay suppliers.

Most steppers will not make 1000 rpm, the loss of torque will mean they lose steps or stall before they reach 1000 rpm. A servo has a flat torque characteristic to rated
speed, often 3000 rpm or higher.

You might be able to represent to your professor that equipping with servos IS THE  industrial solution and that your project would best prepare you for real world solutions
that servos are vastly preferred over steppers.

A slightly cheaper alternative to AC servos are closed loop steppers. You will no doubt see plenty of offerings. They are intermediately priced between servos and
open loop steppers.

The manufacturers will claim that they are faster, more powerful, never lose steps.......all pure BS. As I said above all steppers lose torque as speed increases,
a closed loop stepper is no different. A stepper will only ever lose a step if its overloaded by either excess load or the speed at which its being asked to operate at.
A closed loop driver will insert an extra step to try to 'catch up', but guess what.....the extra step suffers the same fate, it gets lost because the stepper is overloaded.

Closed loop steppers do have two advantages, namely interpolation between steps for increased resolution, and following error alarms. These advantages are bought at
a significant price increase over open loop steppers. Any well specified open loop stepper used within its limitations will never lose a step an so my recomendation
is either:
1) Open loop steppers of lowest possible inductance with highest possible voltage drivers and power supply....or
2) AC servos

Don't mess with Mr. InBetween, closed loop steppers.

Craig

Hey Craig,

I was able to convince my professor to use the servos you suggested. I was wondering if there is any wiring guides to them, with the power supply and the breakout board and smooth-stepper? Also any suggestions on the power supply to use?

Thanks very much for all your help,

Regards,

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