Messages

11

Mach4 General Discussion / Mach 4 demo?

« on: January 17, 2019, 10:55:51 PM »

I tried searching, but can't find the answers to my question in previous threads.

Ive been using Mach3 for years, and have been considering getting a Mach 4 license. I prefer the look of the Mach 4 gui, it seems a better fit for my mill and Warp 9 seems yo put more effort into the Mach 4 plugin.

I downloaded Mach 4 to try in demo mode, but absolutely nothing works.

The software installed fine, and starts fine, but all i can do is browse the various screens.

It doesng seem to recognize my smoothsteppers existence, i cant access the ess plugin, it won't run g-code.  Basically, all i can do is see what the gui looks like.

Am i doing something wrong? Im definitely not paying $200 for the license until im certain it will run on my machines integral pc motherboard and cnc hardware.

12

SmoothStepper USB / Re: Smoothstepper USS worth it?

« on: January 10, 2019, 03:27:37 PM »

Thanks. Ill try that.

13

SmoothStepper USB / Re: Smoothstepper USS worth it?

« on: January 10, 2019, 10:50:11 AM »

There doesnt appear to be a way to edit previous posts here.

I've been trying to open the ess plugin in mach 3 to familiarize myself with the setup screens, but it doesnt want to open without having the ess connected. 

Is there a way?

14

SmoothStepper USB / Re: Smoothstepper USS worth it?

« on: January 10, 2019, 08:26:04 AM »

I didn't confirm it via email, but i found multiple references to its existence from different sources, including some instructions on setting it up.  It only available in PWM mode, which is what my analog converter uses.

15

SmoothStepper USB / Re: Smoothstepper USS worth it?

« on: January 09, 2019, 05:33:21 PM »

Hi,
well it sounds like your installation with the USS is working fine.

I think the principle determinant is whether the USB communication is adequate. There have been a few users whom have no end of trouble
with 'running out of data'  and total cessation of USB comms. It sounds if your 'electrical noise' environment is reasonably benign. That being the
case then carry on with the USB.

From your description the only feature you will really miss is the spindle  PID.

It would be possible to make a small circuit board that would add that feature....if you are into electronics. I mean not so many years ago ALL
speed control was done with analogue boards.

Craig

I took your advice. An ethernet smoothstepper is in the mail.

After reading up on them both, i definitely want the backlash comp and PID spindle.

I ordered a mini pci-e ethernet card, which plugs into the pci-e slot and will give me an internal ethernet header, keeping all the wiring neat and clean (and noise free).

16

SmoothStepper USB / Re: Smoothstepper USS worth it?

« on: January 08, 2019, 04:21:37 PM »

Thanks for the info Craig.

I lke a noise free case, i shield, use lots of twisted pairs and have a fetish for ferrite beads. I donte have any trouble with noise.

The USS is running great, your correct that ill only miss the pid. But, maybe not that much.

I just played with some 6061 using MDI.  Without pid, running at 3300rpm and 16ipm with a .375" 3 flute alu-power, i had no loss of speed using .186" stepover @ .05" doc.  I had a 10rpm loss of speed @ .375 stepover .05" doc, and a 40rpm loss of speed with a .375" stepove and .1" doc.  All running at 16ipm.

I can live with the open loop spindle.  Hell, the spindle runs smoother anyway under the smoothstepper than with pid, on the parallel port.

17

SmoothStepper USB / Re: Smoothstepper USS worth it?

« on: January 08, 2019, 03:47:08 PM »

"Do you prefer wiring neatness or do you prefer a reliable, working CNC solution?"

Without the smoothstepper, i have exactly that.

Ill consider what yove said. I have the USB smoothstepper installed and currently running a program to test it.  Everything is running very well except as predicted, the spindle speed accuracy has suffered as it is completely open loop.  It is within 40rpm though.  Everything else is great.

Ill try cutting some metal in a few minutes to see how much it bogs down the bldc motor without a pid loop.  If its too much, i can just unplug the smoothstepper and plug the parallel port back in.

The parrallel port has been running like a champ since 2014, i just thought it would be nice to run 64bit windows since my controller pc has a 64bit cpu and memory.

Im sure i could sell the USB smoothstepper on ebay and come up with a way to route the ethernet cable out and plug it into the i/o panel, that doesn't look line Fred Sanford did it.

18

SmoothStepper USB / Smoothstepper USS worth it?

« on: January 08, 2019, 12:34:05 PM »

I've been wanting to start using a smoothstepper so that I can run windows 7 64 bit on my CNC machine but have some concerns about the features I may be losing if I make the switch from parallel port to Smoothstepper.

First, i'm limited to the USB version.  My CNC hardware and PC hardware, all breakout boards, pc motherboards, stepper drivers, power supplies etc are all mounted in the same mining-rig enclosure, which is mounted to the side of the CNC enclosure.  The breakout board connects to the PC motherboard via headers, and the smoothstepper would also be mounted inside the enclosure and necessarily connect to the motherboards onboard USB3.0 header.  The pc motherboard doesn't have an Ethernet header, only the plug on the rear I/O panel. 

 I'm OCD about wiring neatness, having an Ethernet smoothstepper would mean a hole drilled into the enclosure, and a wire hanging out of the hole so it could be plugged into the back of the motherboard.  Such a thing would be like having a penis growing out of my forehead. It's mere existence would be intolerable, like a snake loose in the house, I couldn't stop thinking about it until it was gone.


My biggest concern is the features I might lose switching to the smoothstepper. 

First, closed loop PID control of the spindle motor.  I've read online that USS smoothstepper in Mach3 can't do closed loop PID, or somehow, eliminates Mach3s ability to control the spindle closed loop.  Currently, my 1.1kw bldc motor, in combonation with Mach3 in closed loop PID operation holds + or - 10 rpm, even when entering and exiting cuts.  I really don't want to lose this.

Also, i've read that I will lose backlash compensation.  This isn't as big of a deal as my ballscrews have almost no backlash but I do occasionally, rightly or wrongly, use it to hit a tolerance when it's is a couple thousandths undersize or oversize.

The ability to use speed override in the positive direction. I've read that the smoothstepper won't allow feed override to increase the feed speed.

Also, I keep reading about weird reliability issues, such as losing communication between mach3 and the smoothstepper,  the smoothstepper running out of data, etc.

Are my concerns realistic? Is there a way to actually control the spindle closed loop, use the feed override and backlash compensation with the smoothstepper?

How does it cause these issues? does the smoothstepper override, ignore or otherwise not communicate some of the Mach 3 to breakout board communications?  For example, if Mach 3 is sensing rpm via the index signal, and modulating the pwm pulsewidth to adjust RPM, does the smoothstepper not communicate these instructions to the breakout board, or does the smoothstepper somehow prevent these calculations from taking place at all?

19

General Mach Discussion / Re: Need some help with C11 board and MACH...

« on: January 07, 2019, 02:48:49 PM »

The c11g doesnt have a control side input for the relays. The control side is built-in via printed circuits. No wiring necessary.

Ill assume in mach 3-ports and pins-spindle, youve set cw rotation to output 1 and ccw rotation to output 2, set it to pwm, with a base frequency of 300.

Then in mach 3-ports and pins-outputs, youve set output 1 to pin 14, port 1.  And that youve set output 2 to pin 16 port 1.

And that in mach 3-ports and pins-motor outputs youve set your spindle output step to pin 14 port 1, and dir to pin 16 port 1.


If the jumpers are set to US mode, and mach 3s spindle turned on in clockwise direction, mach 3 output 1 is activated and outputs a pwm signal to pin14. The presence of a pwm signal from mach 3 on pin 14 triggers relay 1.  Nothing happens on pin 16 or relay 2.

With the jumpers set as above, in US mode, and mach 3s spindle tured on in counterclockwise mode, output 2 is activated and pwm is still sent out pin14, but ONLY relay 2 is triggered.

So, basically, with the jumpers set to US mode,  cw spindle on triggers a pwm signal on pin 14, and relay 1 only.

Ccw spindle on in mach 3 activates a pwm signal on pin 14, and triggers relay 2 only.

So, that being the case, when you turn on cw spindle rotation, as in an m3 command, you will get output 1- a pwm signal out pin 14 which turns on your analog voltage output to drive your vfd.  You will also activate relay 1, which should be wired to close your vfd signal common to your enable (sometimes called start/stop).  

When you turn on ccw spindle rotation in mach 3, youll get the same pwm signal on pin 14 which will drive your vfd. Youll also get output 2-pin 16-relay 2 triggered, which should be wired to close your vfd signal common to the reverse/forward wire. On my vfd the reverse wire closed to sig common makes it run backwards. The reverse wire left open makes it run forward.

My vfd must have the signal common closed to the enable for cw rotation, and must have the signal common closed to both the enable AND the reverse for ccw rotation. So, i have my jumpers set to International mode.

With the jumpers set to international mode, m3 activates pwm and relay 1 only (closing my sig common to enable).  Ccw spindle (m4) activates BOTH relays ( relay 1 closes my signal common to enable ) and (relay 2 closes my signal common to reverse).

How you wire it depends on the type of vfd/controller running your spindle motor.

Tell me what kind of vfd/controller your using and ill do up a wiring diagram.

20

General Mach Discussion / Re: Need some help with C11 board and MACH...

« on: January 05, 2019, 06:20:19 PM »

The c11g has jumpers that allow you to configure the relays in different ways.

How you wire it will obviously depend on what kind of spindle setup your using.

For a KB125 of VFD using the analog 0-10v setup, the wiring could be done any number of ways.

For example, with a VFD, id go with somethig like:

US mode jumper setup, when you setup your spindle with output 1=clockwise and output 2=counterclockwise, and  setup your outputs with output 1=pin 14=(clockwise) and output 2= pin=16=reverse,  thie following happens:

When, for example, you give an m3 S1000 command or set 1000rpm and push the spindle button, output 1 will be activated, voltage goes out the analog output and relay 1 will be activated.

If you were to give an m4 S1000 command, output 2 would be activated, an analog voltage would go out the analog outputs and relay 2 would activate.

So, spindle clockwise activates the analog output and relay 1. 

Spindle counterclockwise activates the analog out and relay 2.

That being the case, i would wire the relays as follows:

The signal common from your VFD splits into two wires, and each wire goes to the common terminal of each relay.

The reverse signal wire goes to the N/O terminal of relay 2

The EN (enable) wire splits into two wires, and one leg of the split  the N/O terminal of relay 1. The othe leg of the EN split goes to the N/C terminal of relay 1.

This gives you the following mode of operation:

When clockwise spindle is commanded, analog voltage goes out to the vfd, and relay 1 closes the signal common to the enable. The spindle starts and rotates clockwise.

When counterclockwise spindle is commanded, analog voltage goes out to the vfd, and relay 2 closes the signal common to the reverse wire.  The enable wire is active here because it is wired to the N/C terminal of relay 1.  So, the spindle starts and runs in reverse.


You could also jumper the signal common to the enable permanently, or wire it through an extarnal switch or estop switch.

That would work for a VFD setup that has a 0-10v analog input, and a signal common closing to a reverse wire or reverse, and closing the signal common to anenable wire to allow forward/reverse operation.   All will depend on the wiring requirements of your VFD.