Messages

11

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 09, 2018, 06:45:10 PM »

Got ESS mounted and powered and set x motor S/D...like a fine Swiss watch...FINALLY...some more tuning and I am at X16 btw...

12

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 09, 2018, 09:14:38 AM »

ESS via Amazon out for delivery...round 28...ding..ding

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Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 08, 2018, 11:17:42 AM »

we just did Y as well and exactly 10 cliks...sound again different...too narrow a margin I'm thinking to be coincidental in actual BL.

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Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 08, 2018, 11:13:13 AM »

Stuart it can certainly seem that way but again I have 2 methods to evaluate travel and "BL" is only in the one being driven by the motion controller...the second and far more accurate is directly off the step counter in the drive itself which I can program independently to execute basic motions...I can tell the drive to make continuous 1 step increments if I choose...it's quite useful actually to measure EXACT pitch travel on a ball screw...tell the counter to got to 4000 from zero with a dial indicator...I have 2 axis done that way and they were about .0045 different.

I just did the test again and you can actually HEAR the difference in the cliks ever so slightly and I have a pretty sharp cohort here who agrees...pitch is slightly altered and 9 cliks to motion today...

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Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 08, 2018, 10:43:21 AM »

I am confused that's for certain...I am even confused on how to describe it but it's electronically induced backlash for lack of a better description...here goes

I set the X in the drive itself to execute a program of travel +- then ++ and return to zero and I mean Absolute counter moves of say 768000 steps and then return to zero on the counter so all movements were absolute and it would execute to .0002-.0004 repeatedly for 5-10 minutes straight....no deviation obviously but also no measurable BL....to be clear as well I am not realtime executing via TCP but rather wrote a script and loaded it into the drive and executed via the TCP comm app...it just runs till I hit esc.

Now I move to driving through the pokeys in M4 and now that I feel I have a pretty accurate count TO a specific dimension (rarely reversed...direction itself + or - being irrelevant return is always decrementing), I have done some incremental stepping. it doesn't matter much the dimension but we'll use the .001. I start at .000 and clik 10 time, DRO at .010, before I get .001 dial indicated...then it will be absolutely spot on....002 .003 .004 etc....now we reverse...10 cliks then begin decrementing ,001 at a time.

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Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 08, 2018, 09:56:22 AM »

It would appear you cannot configure the P57 to do Quad output...encoder is input only...

The ESS has a selection for S/D, Quad or CW/CCW

Pulse Output Capabilities Up to 4 MHz, Step and Direction, Quadrature, CW/CCW

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Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 07, 2018, 11:29:04 PM »

Again an excellent, excellent bit of really awesome research on your part...My deepest gratitude for all your amazing insights!! You both are amazing! I have been cruising around here and the help you provide is truly amazing in the depth of it's knowledge and absolutely amazing volume...have to buy you both a few pints someday!

The standard mode setting for these drives is Motion configuration...a 5kHz signal...mix paint one direction and then the other and etc...I have them configured for S/D so it changes the parameters...the manual you reference does not include some of the more updated stuff and specific S/D related specs ...for Mode specs on S/D we have to go to the https://motion.schneider-electric.com/download/lexium-mdrive-pulsedirection-nema-2334/?wpdmdl=6709&refresh=5c0ac2930c6331544209043 Pulse-Direction...Page 24...2.56 MHz S/D and 1.25Mhz Quad...Internally they share most of the same components and flexible configuration so a S/D drive could be used for motion and etc...

I have the Motion folks monitoring the input you have put forth as well and I will get some more feedback to ABSOLUTELY confirm the numbers but I did cover this with them today and his comment was in fact the Pokeys at ~450kHz and the Drive at more than 2 mHz....we dialed back the follow threshold as well which is the minimum relative pulse width cutoff "Set the motion inputs to filter signals with a pulse width to 5 <900 nS, or of frequency greater than 555 kHz" pg 5-49 of the M-code manual...https://motion.schneider-electric.com/download/mcode-operating-system/?wpdmdl=6727&refresh=5c0ac2930ff151544209043


The internal interface in this is the very chip you have outlined above I believe...he said an HP 485...most everything in industrial automation isRS485...pretty straightforward stuff and pretty bulletproof. if not a bit aged...

MachSupport Rob thought perhaps the ESS would be far more accommodating of the numbers...again though I am at 8X and even 2X and 4X still the exact same thing+In all honesty the best results I have had for getting it close has been at the X256...

One last thought is the very odd behavior with .001 incremental steps...it literally takes 10 cliks before I see a .001 move and then they are like clockwork...001.002.003.004 etc...I didn't do this much till lately as I was just trying to get the Units dialed in but it's very strange...almost always 10 cliks to reverse direction...and NO backlash...

Again Craig and Steve...Thanks!!!

18

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 07, 2018, 09:25:33 AM »

"try linedrivers."

A very interesting idea....Thanks Craig!

I looked further into the settings and it seems in addition to step and direction I can set S/D inputs for EncA/EncB with Follow so...perhaps that's an possibility....checking with Schneider this morning....can I drive them with the pokeys on an encoder setting is the big question I guess.

I ran my general internal app again across a wide array of MS Settings from the default 256X down to 2X and while the drive certainly changed characteristics and pitch it never lost a bit of accuracy...something very odd going on because it is just so clocklike predictable.

19

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 06, 2018, 03:22:10 PM »

I have tried all the various combinations of settings for MS and they all result in the exact same drift...ugh

20

Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Hybrid Stepper Setup in M4

« on: December 06, 2018, 08:52:19 AM »

I certainly do believe it IS possible for these to lose steps...they have this HMt technology built into them and I don't believe its such a great thing to have any more complications with conflicting parameters in S/D mode...perhaps I am wrong and will investigate that as well but I have the step compensation shut off...I'm simply looking at the counter cycles to gauge distances and identify issues.

I would be a complete bone head asking for advice, getting it and not using it so I have them set to 8X (4X as well)and kept V and A very manageable and after several hours of repeated crossing of the over/under threshold in distance/MS unit tuning....I mean I set the distance at one complete counter cycle and tuned to where I crept up on the exact distance...reached it and exceeded it but in none of my efforts was I able to repeatedly go the distance and return to dead zero and then go back out the exact distance...the video is the result of what I felt was the correct MS...
 I know we covered this but I am not in any way using Ethernet as a control...just a config...the inputs should be just like a driver...I am however of course using the internal drivers and perhaps it's some clocking issue...I'm reaching...lol

I have a ticket in with Mach and we'll see where that goes and I'm going to get my contact at Schneider again today or tomorrow and see what they might have for me.

Thanks as always!!!