Messages

141

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 20, 2018, 01:16:18 AM »

Hi Craig/ Allan

No, I have not got a signal generator. I used the follow error in the CSMIO. I think I need to get on with the rest of the conversion for now. I can't see any difference now to what they were before, as far as the motor performance. That being said I would like to be in a position to be able to tune the whole system accurately.

What would I need as far as a scope is concerned? I have an Arduino which is capable of becoming a scope or is that ridiculous? Some of what you are saying in the last couple of posts is going over my head a little so please try and explain in laymen terms.

Really pleased where we are now and thank you for all the support.

Cheers
Mick

142

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 19, 2018, 03:32:33 PM »

Hi Craig
I am happy to try and tune differently to what I have already. Will it improve what it's doing now?
Cheers
Mick

143

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 19, 2018, 01:12:59 PM »

Hi Allan

The motor is on the X-axis.

Are you still thinking the KP is set at 550 as stated in my last but one post?

Setting the KV in the CSMIO and pressing auto-tune ignores the KP preset and starts again using its own KP gradually increasing it. Then going to the other parameters. I've done it twice now but renders the axis unusable once it's finished.

This is the process I have used to tune the CSMIO.

KP with everything else set to 0: Started with a setting of 500 jogging the motor forward and back. Kept increasing the KP by 500 each time doing the same jogging movements until the motor started jumping around.   This started happening at around 28000 KP. So then knocked off around 15% like the manual says and set the KP to 23800.

Ki. Same as KP but increasing in smaller amounts of 10 each time. I got up to around 240 before the motor started jumping around. I knocked off 15% and set the KI to 200.

KVff: I couldn't really see any huge difference with motor movement but there was a large difference in the error counts. I found a point when adjusting it either way, started to increase the error rate.
This was found at 172 KVff

So the settings in the CSMIO are as follows.
Kp: 23800
KI: 200
KD: 0
KVff: 171

The motor seems to be running fine on rapid and slow moves Allan but if these setting seem odd or not right I am happy to try and improve them.

Cheers
Mick

144

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 19, 2018, 07:38:46 AM »

Hi Craig

I will speak to Norwin about it and feedback to you there comments.

Allan/Craig

The motor seems to be working fine now. I have had to manually tune the motor in the CSMIO as the auto-tune feature was giving mad results. Following the manual tune prodecure in the manual didn't really seem to work either apart from adjusting the KP. The kI and KVFF I adjusted by choosing the setting which gave the lowest errors. 
The motors are running smoothly and quietly with no jumping at all. Getting accuracy of around 0.02mm on a random program just going back and forth at various speeds.

Thanks for your time and patience on this. Hope I can return the favour at some point.

Cheers
Mick

145

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 19, 2018, 04:43:17 AM »

Hi Allan

Pins 1 and 14 go to 10v as soon as you power up. I mentioned this before in an earlier post but I think we didn't see it as a problem at the time. I swapped The Command Hi-Low over to Pins 2 and 15 but at the same time changed the DAC output within the CSMIO to channel 1. I think there is a fault with channel 0 in the I/O/? I have done some more tests and everything seems to be working right and very accurate too.

I haven't managed to tune the CSMIO yet. I am struggling to achieve the right KP. If I set the KP at 2000 for instance then autotune, it goes through the process which takes a while. but then resets my KP way up into 40,000's. Run a small program and the machine jumps around. If I reset everything to 0 and leave the KP on around 500 the program runs smoothly. Motors are quiet no jerking etc.

Craig

Was just following the Norwin manual with regards RV2.

Cheers
Mick   

146

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 18, 2018, 06:02:31 PM »

Hi Both

Thanks, Allan for that. Yes the RPM I have set at around 1000 which gives 5m minute. Done the test and good news and bad news. After setting the drive as described in my earlier post. Exactly the same problem. As soon as I powered the drive the motor runs flat out. Estops working though so no big deal. (Cheers for that tip) Re-booted everything and enabled the drive and the motor runs flat out again. Checked the power at pins 1 and 14 to find 10v again with no command from Mach 3.
 Changed command HI Low to pins 2 and 15 channel 1 on the CSMIO and Bingo. Everything works absolutely perfectly. 

I will keep trying over the next few days to make sure it's not random fix.

Thank you very much for all your time on this and I will report back with feedback over the next few days.

Cheers
Mick           
 

147

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 18, 2018, 02:14:42 PM »

Hi Both

Thanks your input again.

Craig thank you for the info on the drives, cheaper than I thought but at the moment will have to persevere with the Norwin drives. I have just spent £700 on the CSMIO with the Threading module.

Right Connected a pot view a 9v Battery with the tach connected.

Adjusted RV1 until motor ceases moving.

Applied 9v via the pot and adjusted RV2 to get max speed.

Turned RV2 back to achieve approx 1000 rpm.

Check Tach voltage which was at 12.3v
Adjusted tach on P/M to 8.9 volts slightly off from the input voltage as Craig suggested.

Turned the pot down to approx 2 volts.
Checked the tach and putting out very similar voltage.

Very positive I think??
Will try connecting the controller up now and see what I get.

Allan Thanks for the tip on the enable going to the emergency stop. I will rewire that.

One thing I noticed when I was adjusting RV1 with 0V applies.  By turning the pot a significant amount makes the motor turn one way and turning the pot the other way reversed the motor. 
There was a very small millivolt signal but no matter which way the motor turned it was always negative??
Just thought I would mention it.

Can you just clarify something? We keep talking about 0v. I have a red and blue wire coming from the command high low. I have always presumed the red is positive pin 1 on the CSMIO and the blue is negative pin 14 on the CSMIO. Please educate me if needed

Cheers Again
Mick

148

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 18, 2018, 01:45:19 AM »

Hi Both

Just thinking, I know its too early but the runaway first occurred when the Tach was not connected. Does this illuminate the possibility of being wired backwards? I have not rewired this, its wired as its always been. As I mentioned before could it be possible that the three-phase going into the drive needs the phases swapping to turn the motor the other way?

There used to be an ATC on this machine which was phase dependent and would only work if the phases were in a particular order.

Cheers
Mick

149

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 18, 2018, 01:23:57 AM »

Hi Both

I am using version 3.043.062
Allan, I've tried the Ki on numerous different numbers from 200 up to 50000. Having all the other setting at 0. Totally agree with you about using a 10v pot its a great idea. Should I disconnect the encoder wires from the CSMIO whilst doing that or just turn it off? I presume the servo just needs to be enabled and voltage applied to the Command to get it to move?  

Craig LOL. I would love to throw them away with Mach 3 as well and buy a brand new machine. Before I can justify spending thousands on AC servos I need to give these a fair go.
Are you suggesting swapping the phases on the drive as I mentioned the other day or reversing the tacho wires?

Cheers
Mick    

150

General Mach Discussion / Re: CS Labs CSMIO/P-A

« on: July 17, 2018, 04:58:17 PM »

Hi Both

Thanks for all your input.

One step forward ten steps back. Had 3 hours trying to get somewhere with this.

Checked the voltage from the Tach at full rpm and it puts out around 32v. So went through the process of adjusting RV1. Then RV2 to get my desired RPM. Adjusted the tach to 10v as the controller is putting out. Then totally lost control of the motor. Limit switches, emergency stop and even disconnecting the wires from the command hi Lo would not stop the motor. Had to shut the machine down to stop the motor. 

Re-booted mach3 and the controller and the motor fires up again with no command from mach3. Check the voltage on pins 1 and 14 and we have 10v??. Disconnected the wires from pins 1 and 14 and the motor still continues to run. Shutting the machine down is the only way of stopping it.

By this point, I am losing my head a little so decided to try plugging the tacho back in and go through the same procedure with tuning. Now it allows me to gain a higher rpm with RV2 although not as high as without the tach. Same problem though the motors spin flat out on power up except this time the limits and emergency stops work. 

Anyway besides this there are lots of strange things going on.

Sometimes Mach 3 screen jumps to the end of the program as soon as you press start as in a split second.
It sometimes ignores the stop command.
Sometimes If you press the emergency stop the axis on the screen continues going.
icon.DLL defective plugin error pops up when I boot.
INTI.DLL defective plugin error when I boot.
Then sometimes it works perfectly but still get the errors.


I have tried that many things today my head is blown.

Think i'm going to send one of the drives away to get check out. At least then I can rule out the drive. I'll swap the motor over from the Z-axis as well. 

You guys have been great. I can't thank you enough for the time you spent with your advise.

Cheers Mick