Messages

7551

Mach3 under Vista / Re: 32 bit win 7

« on: July 19, 2014, 02:47:03 AM »

Hi Jim,
Mach3 certainly runs under Windows 7, 32 bit if you wish to use PP. I should add a note of caution tho, I have installed Windows Embedded Standard 7 (WES7).
It is based on the same code as the retail version of Windows 7. WES7 however allows you to install only the code you require for your application.

When I first installed the WES7 OS I installed it as 'compatibility mode' which includes everything you would expect in retail Windows 7. It ran Mach3 fine
but I did not have it hooked up to my machine so there may well of been quirks which didn't show on the driver test or on the oscilloscope I hooked up
to the PP.

More recent installs of the OS I have left out a number of code components, things like Media Player and IE. I am very happy with testing (driver test, oscilloscope
and machine test). Despite leaving chunks of code out the OS is still 1.8 gig, so hardly a slim installation. I think most XP users would be shocked at the amount
of code in Windows 7. The install wizard (IBW) that accompanies WES7 has a dependency checker. So if you want to install a given component, lets say IE graphics
engine then you must install IE Foundation for it to work. The checker automatically includes the required code. It turns out that a lot of code gets included this
way. It does not make for a minimal install. There are options for a minimum install but you lose things like the Control Panel and Windows Explorer. I want those
'creature comforts' so didn't persue the minimum options. All in all WES7 install and deployment is a breeze. XP Embedded is a much more difficult proposition.

The real advantage of WES7 and a new single board computer is reliability. WES7 will be around for many years to come thanks to its intended use as an embedded
OS worked into a bewildering array of devices from supermarket kiosks to automobile systems and even washing machines!. Likewise the computer hardware will
be around for a long time and depending on the maker the components used are for reliable industrial situations.

Craig

7552

Mach3 under Vista / Re: Mach3 support for windows 7?

« on: July 09, 2014, 07:30:18 AM »

Hi Billcat,
I'm running Windows Embedded Standard 7 which is the same as Windows 7 but with a few bits left out like Media Player, Internet Explorer and a few things
like that. I looks and behaves just like normal Windows and I have come to quite like it. It runs Mach3 well, better than my old XP machine, mind you
I sometimes had to light a fire under it to boot up!
There are a couple of things which have changed from XP. One of them is User Account Control (UAC). In XP if you are the only user registered in the OS
as often is the case with a home system then you are automatically the Administrator, after all someone has to do it and there is only you.
In Windows 7 and you are the only user, which I imagine would be the situation with a dedicated machine, you will be Administrator by default. Windows 7
does something interesting when you boot/logon tho, it logs you on as ordinary user with reduced privileges. If you want Administrative privilege you have
to ask nicely.
In order to run either Mach3 or Driver Test as Administrator highlight the icon, one left click, but rather than double click, right click instead. That should bring
up a little window of options, third from the top (from memory) is Run as Administrator, click of that and you launch the program with full rights.
You can automate that so that everytime you run that program it runs in Admin account by highlighting the icon, right click and clicking the Properties item from the list
(the bottom, again from memory) and going to the Compatibility tab on the window which results.  At the bottom of that window is a button 'Change settings for
all users', click it. At the bottom of the new window there is a checkbox "Run this program as an Administrator", check it, hit Apply, the OK. Click OK in the revealed
remaining windows and your done. Now any user account can run the program with Admin rights. You will have to repeat the steps for Driver Test.

Hope it helps
Craig

7553

Third party software and hardware support forums. / Re: purpose built computer

« on: July 07, 2014, 04:29:27 AM »

Well I have finally got around to 'building' purpose built computer a year to the day from my original post. Have bought a house in the mean time tho...

I selected a single board 'industrial' computer based on the Atom dual core processor. Largely on the basis of cost and local (New Zealand)
availability from a Taiwanese manufacturer UniGens.

The model I bought is Mini ITX size with 4G DDR3 1600 RAM and 60G mSATA SSD. I also bought a runtime key for Windows Embedded Standard 7 (WES7).

I selected WES7 largely because the optimisation/deployment tools looked like a much simpler proposition than XP Embedded. Configuring and installing the OS
while challenging to a non geek has not been to bad. There are some good books and forums out there... I have learnt a lot about Windows and operating
systems in general as a result and feel that I have achieved something as a result.

WES7, or at least my 'mix' of it is working great, it runs the pulse engine at 100kHz rock steady and have not had one glitch due to the system or other software
running. Mach3 is still Mach3, when it runs well its great but when it struggles it still struggles. The expense and effort I have gone to have just made the platform
running it behave more reliably and no more.

I am pleased with the result, the computer looks handmade, my own tin box etc, operating system components of my choice and all the knowledge/research
that it took leaves me with a sense of pride very much akin to the pride in producing really nice CNC parts on your own machine.

7554

Mach3 under Vista / Re: 32 bit win 7

« on: July 06, 2014, 03:50:18 AM »

Hi there,
I had some concerns about my old XP machine, ongoing reliability etc.
I bought a single board computer based on Atom processor and have installed 32bit Windows Embedded Standard 7.
To date have had no probs running Mach3, in fact it seems to run better. My XP machine would not run the pulse
engine above 45 kHz without going cranky. The Atom machine runs at 100kHz with less jitter than the XP machine
at 25 kHz.
I think that the (hopefully) more reliable newer machine with SSD and embedded OS is worth the effort/expense.

Craig

7555

Mach3 under Vista / Re: Use of Embeeded Widows OS - Good, Bad, or Ugly?

« on: July 02, 2014, 05:14:25 AM »

Have taken delivery of my single board computer and installed 32bit Windows Embedded Standard 7 (WES7) and Mach3. Its running well. better than my old XP
machine anyway.
Whether it was worth the extra money and time, well probably not. I have learnt a lot on the way which I regard as worthwhile.
I believe I have ended up with a more stable platform to run Mach3 from software and crispy new hardware point of view.

Craig

7556

Mach3 under Vista / Re: OS resources for M3?

« on: July 02, 2014, 04:43:05 AM »

I have finally received my single board computer and installed Windows Embedded Standard 7(WES7) and Mach3 and it runs great, or at least better than my old XP machine.

To date have installed in 'compatibility' mode which means all the bells and whistles, almost indentical to the retail Windows 7. Early testing of Mach3 suggests that it is running
better than my single core XP machine, and given the Atom board is dual core should be no surprise.

Whether installing a subset of Windows as per 'embedded' practice will result in further improvements remains to be seen. My guess is that no improvement will be had but
suspect that the operating system will be more stable which is to my mind as good.

To give Microsoft their due WES7 is pretty easy to install and configure. I'm no computer geek and I achieved it while only tearing out half my hair!
I bought 'Professionals Guide to Windows Embedded Standard 7' by S Liming and found it very worthwhile. One of the references in there to 'Windows Internals' is also a good
read if you have the stomach for that sort of thing. It makes plain why Windows is a poor candidate for a real-time system and reinforces my belief that Mach3 performing as well
as it does under Windows is a miracle.

Craig

7557

Mach3 under Vista / Re: Will MACH3 ever support 64-bit systems? Officially? FYI, it's 2010

« on: May 25, 2014, 09:19:36 PM »

If you look in Device Manager on a computer on which Mach3 is installed (and runs!), or more particularly the 'pulse engine' part of Mach3, the
all important paralell port driver, you will see it listed as a physical peice of hardware.

All of the posts I have read indicate that the  pulse engine will not run on a virtual machine. You, me and any number of others would love it to be the case but it is not so.

Somone prove me wrong!

7558

Mach3 under Vista / Re: Use of Embeeded Widows OS - Good, Bad, or Ugly?

« on: May 23, 2014, 07:38:42 PM »

Steve,
I think your points are well made. Storage is that cheap that cutting away code for size sakes makes no sense at least in the hobby environment.

My inclination in this project/undertaking is to take advantage of the current offerings of industrial computing solutions available. The systems I have reviewed and am interested in are rugged and reliable. Additionally the manufacturers claim that support for these devices will be available for years to come, appropriate to industrial/commercial life cycles. These systems may be cheaper for vendors whom produce thousands of these things but are not in fact cheap to a low volume user like me. The laptop I just bought for general use (i7 core, 1TB, 16G..... etc) cost less than the industrial board I have bought for my controller.

My choice may seem weird to many but it reflects my own inclination to 'buy the best I can afford'. As an example I some months ago bought a commercial washing machine for home, the kind you would see in a Laundromat. I paid $500 for it, second hand. A new domestic machine sells in New Zealand for around $750, I certainly didn't save much money but hope it will outlast the domestic machine life cycle of 5 years or so. Parts supply for my commercial machine, an established design and longstanding manufacturer, is superb. Call we weird and I will take that on the chin!

Most functional components in Windows are only running when called as you point out however some of the underpinning code does run constantly. What the components are and if they are required for MY installation is the subject of research. 

7559

Mach3 under Vista / Re: Use of Embeeded Widows OS - Good, Bad, or Ugly?

« on: May 23, 2014, 04:08:18 AM »

Steve,
what research I have done that you can choose to include .NET functionality in an embedded OS. In the case of Windows 7 Embedded Standard you can choose the level of .NET support from level 2 thru level 3.5
Exactly what is included in each level is available from Microsoft but much of it is foreign to me.
The bigger question is what functionality is required by any particular app. It would appear there is no definitive list of what is required by Mach3. This is a shame, I would certainly like such a list. In fact I don't recall seeing any app which specifically listed its OS requirements, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.
One idea suggests that including all functionality available in the distribution share available with your version OS. It may happen tho that some inclusions represent a processing load that could lead to Mach3 failure. The other alternative is exclude all functionality not required for Mach3. It would limit what other app's you could run but at least the choice is yours.
My previous posts both in this thread and others indicate that I mean to find out, either by asking others who might know or failing that by experiment.
I will post anything that I find that may be of use.

7560

Mach3 under Vista / Re: OS resources for M3?

« on: May 21, 2014, 07:06:23 AM »

Bugger!

I started wondering today if it might be possible to identify components/resources in XP, after all Mach3 seems to be a 'native' XP app.

Any added functions in later windows releases are probably not required and could therefore be left out.

To the best of my knowledge the best source of documentation about the supported functions in XP come from XP Embedded software docs.

Any XP features not required by Mach3 is a different matter...

Thanks for your reply, I'm not quite alone!