Messages

7531

Third party software and hardware support forums. / Re: standalone Mach3 controller

« on: May 05, 2015, 08:32:05 AM »

Hi John,
do you suppose that you could install a different OS?
Secondly, if it could be done does the price stack up such that there would be interest from the Mach community?

When I was casting my eye around for a platform for my machine I all but discarded the industrial panel types on the basis of cost.
In the end I chose a single board computer miniITX as the cheapest option bearing in mind I could recycle monitor, power supply
etc. Memory and HD are new but the HD particularly needed to be new to achieve the reliability that my old XP machine lacked.
Under these circumstances a new platform could cost as little as $200, certainly not as slick but usable.

Craig

7532

Third party software and hardware support forums. / Re: standalone Mach3 controller

« on: May 02, 2015, 05:07:59 AM »

Hi,
I think daniellyall is correct, many Mach users are running old XP machines which are becoming less and less reliable.
Much of the newer hardware or rather the newer Windows OS's have been problematic for a lot who have tried going
by the number of posts on the subject.
External motion controllers are the way forward and work on platforms/OS's that PP won't. I haven't tried M4 yet but
the forum posts indicate that it will be a better performer than M3 in time and will run on any well configured platform
of recent design with an external controller. Even the Darwin PP driver is living up to its 'best of the breed' billing albeit
constraining of OS.
A well priced solution like John has suggested could prove very popular.

Craig

7533

Third party software and hardware support forums. / Re: standalone Mach3 controller

« on: May 02, 2015, 03:54:17 AM »

Hi John,
I too am delighted with my new platform, the reliability of the new hardware and the stability of embedded OS has allowed me to concentrate
on machining rather than control system glitches.
I have not invested in an external controller so 32bit Win7 for me. My general machine (inside and in the warm!) is Intel i7 and Win8. I have M3
installed and use it to experiment with macros and things but can't machine with it in absence of a controller, not to mention licence aspect.
Personally don't like the Metro shell much but M3 runs fine and displays in a classic window. Are you suggesting that there is a version of Win8
that cannot display an app in a classic window? Would have thought that MS would shudder at the prospect that their customers can no longer
run desktop apps and thereby lose their custom and all those LUVLY $$$$.

Craig

7534

Mach3 under Vista / Re: 3020T and Win10 64 bit

« on: April 26, 2015, 12:03:52 AM »

Hi,
I have yet to try M4 but imagine it will run under any well configured Windows OS.

M3 is not a particularly hungry program, it will run on a single core @1Ghz with 500M of ram. I have yet to see a post which concludes that it runs better on multicore
64 bit platforms.

It is certainly true that the PP pulse engine will only run on 32 bit systems of Windows 7 or earlier. Further it is not processing power that determines whether PP
runs well or not but whether the OS and background software is optimised so that the interrupt driven PP timer can run without excess jitter. I suspect the reason
an independent video card is required is that such a card reduces the number of interrupts the CPU has to respond to. My platform is a dual core Intel Atom and
it has an on chip GPU that shares memory with the CPU's, not per recommendation and yet works better than my XP machine did with a dedicated graphics card.
The Atom is a reasonably recent design and the interrupt load on the CPU's by the GPU is low.

Increasing numbers of users are migrating to external motion controllers and thereby markedly reducing the significance of the OS and background software. I am still
happy with PP to date....

As to the required modules for a working OS I would recommend 'The Professionals Guide to Windows 7 Embedded Standard' by Sean Liming. It explains most of the
modules and its installation. A lot of the book details automated installs appropriate for a manufacturer but of less relevance to you or I but is still useful.
One option is to use the 'compatability mode' template and the resultant OS looks almost identical to retail Windows 7. It seems to work fine. My current install
however is a custom install and the major components left out are internet explorer, media player and network security modules. If you are interested I will endeavour
to show the selection page I used, it is not recorded as such because it runs in WnPE the installation environment but it is not too scary.

I am no great fan of Microsoft but have to say that the free download and trial conditions are good. I was able to purchase a runtime key for $200 NZ, about $130 US
and I think petty good value.

Craig

7535

Mach3 under Vista / Re: 3020T and Win10 64 bit

« on: April 25, 2015, 03:53:28 AM »

Hi all,
my controller OS is Windows 7 Embedded Standard (WES7) 32 bit and it works flawlessly. I have seen posts where people have given up on Windows 7, I can't comment because I don't
have a copy of the retail version of Windows 7, I do however have a runtime license for WES7.
The 'embedded' version of Windows 7 is a modularised version of the retail version. You can select those modules required to run your device/controller and leave all the other junk
out. Windows XP Embedded was similar but to configure the 15000 components it included is a real mission. By comparison to XP Embedded WES7 is a breeze, it has some templates
like compataility mode that results in a full blown OS similar if not identical to retail Windows 7. Otherwise you can make up your own installation mix by choosing from a 100 or so
modules. The installation software checks for conflicts and missing essential modules, all in all not too bad to do.
Microsoft allow a free download of WES7 and the required installation tools. In absence of registering with Microsoft it runs in demo mode for a month, if you register it runs for six months,
easily time enough for anyone to determine if it is any good. Getting a runtime license is a little bit more complicated and expensive but I found more than worth the effort, I suppose
you could install a fresh OS every six months and then it would be free if inconvenient.
The full download is about 6gig but the 32bit distribution share and IBW the manual install tool is about 3 gig. I downloaded the complete package which includes the 64 bit distribution
share and ICE the automated installation tool. I never used either the 64 bit DS or ICE, I had only my own system to configure so ICE seems pointless for me and I still use PP so
didn't need/want 64 bit.
I burnt a disc with the 32 bit DS and IBW and installed it on my platform in a couple of hours and first six months free, thanks Microsoft!
I never had to shag about with drivers and all that stuff as it ran on my new platform straight from the box. I have since installed a PCI parallel card and driver for a second port
and obviously Mach3 and my favourite plugins and have been cutting chips ever since. The parallel port driver of Mach3 runs better at 100k than my old XP machine did at 25K.
I recommend WES7 to anyone. I believe the retail Windows 7 has so much network and internet security junk in it that Mach3 struggles with all the intrusion, WES7 does not.

7536

General Mach Discussion / Re: Feeds and Speeds Milling Aluminium

« on: April 07, 2015, 08:02:05 AM »

Hi all,
Dural I think is 2014 or maybe 2017 any not much in use anymore. The current material is 2024 and I use it for model aircraft undercarts and the likes. I have to buy it in small
quantities from an aircraft manufacturer and its worth a bloody fortune.
The good thing about the 2000 series (copper additives) is that the material can be heat treated in addition to ordinary workhardening. The piece I have left is T6 H4 grade, ie
workhardened to T6 and heat treated to H4. Its quite hard and machines really nicely and is so much more forgiving than 6000 series which is soft enough to 'smear' and load
up cutters.
I've had reasonable results with 5083 (I think!) which is a marine grade but otherwise similar to 6063.
Somewhat harder to get is 7058, mainly aircraft use, but is heat treatable. Have heard of people making pistons and things like that so real high strength stuff.
Avoid 1000 or 3000 series, real soft stuff for forming and utensils. I have used kerosene as lube/coolant when trying to cut or thread the stuff. Its so gummy it drives you crazy!

Craig

7537

Mach3 under Vista / Re: 3020T and Win10 64 bit

« on: April 07, 2015, 07:28:45 AM »

Hi all,
I've been researching Windows and in particular what it takes to write a driver. The more I get into it the more I'm impressed that Art was able to write anything which works let alone
works as well as it does.
A lot of the kernel API's have never been documented by MS in the first place and I'm buggered if I can see a way of making working code with what they have published.
I even gave some thought to using a realtime operating system like RTX. RTX runs one (or more) cores as ordinary windows but runs one (upto 31) cores as a realtime scheduler in one multicore cpu.
A Win app like Mach can communicate with the realtime core/cores with shared memory. Great idea, Windows doesn't interfere with the realtime core at all and you have control
of interrupts/busses/timers and so on. In some respects its a bit like how a smoothstepper works namlely that Mach, the trajectory controller, passes instructions via USB/Ethernet
to an FPGA to handle pulse timing. The same thing could be done with RTX but the pulse generation is handled by a gen purpose cpu by software rather than an FPGA in firmware.

Downside is that from what I hear RTX is expensive and they would scarce answer my emails let alone sell to me, altogether to much like MS!!!!

Craig

Anyway I have yet to find the outer limits of what the existing PP can achieve and don't believe that it would be much better in 64bit even if it were possible. As for people who insist
that it should I wonder if that means that if they bought a Ferrari they would want a towbar fitted so they can plough a paddock?

7538

Third party software and hardware support forums. / Re: standalone Mach3 controller

« on: April 07, 2015, 06:45:15 AM »

Hi all,
thinking that the Gizmo board and the Minnow board maybe a bit ambitious particularly in absence of other contributors. However this board

[url]http://www.mini-itx.com/store/~D2500HN[url]

might be of interest. About $80US with one built in PP and a PCI slot for a second.  Add a gig or so of ram a cheap and cheerful HD, rob your old power supply and monitor...$200US all up.
Install your preferred OS and cut chips with a 'crispy new' platform. Don't know about you but I paid over a grand for a highspeed spindle...

Craig

7539

Mach3 under Vista / Re: Mach 3 : Windows 7 vs previous OS's

« on: March 30, 2015, 06:43:06 AM »

Hi there,
my understanding is that provided the computer cannot actually machine a part due to the absence of the parallel port driver or an active smoothstepper
connection the computer will display and simulate gcode files in excess of 500 lines. If the computer is capable of actually controlling a machine then
the 500 line limit applies.

Craig

7540

General Mach Discussion / Re: Micro computer

« on: March 28, 2015, 03:02:38 AM »

Hi there, (continued)
I chose to use Windows 7 Embedded Standard (WES7) as OS. The local  (New Zealand) supplier of my board sold me a runtime licence for WES7 which is indicated
by the little Microsoft sticker. It turns out the supplier was not following the rules quite right.

I have seen makers out there who will sell WES7 but ONLY as a part of a complete system. Their agreement with Microsoft means they can only sell WES7 as a part of
a complete system. They charge about $140US for the licence component.
 
I am a bit dubious that either Intel's Atom or AMD's Gseries will run XP because of lack of driver support. They will run Windows 7 32 bit and some will run 64 bit.
I personally cant be bothered with 64 bit and indeed cant use it and run PP's.

WinCE is a bit like WES7 in that you can select the bits you want and ignore the rest. CE based on XP had 15000 components to chose from, experienced developers
describe the process as 'character building'. I don't have any character and certainly don't bloody want one at my age!!! WES7 however has about 50 modules to choose from
and the installation software (IBW) has a checker arrangement to ensure that all your selected modules will work. Even for me it was not too bad to set up.
My recommendation would be WES7 or just plain Windows 7 retail and 32bit if you want PP. I have seen plenty of posts that Windows 7 is not to good with Mach3 but
I've' no bother.

Craig