Hello Guest it is April 25, 2024, 11:28:40 PM

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - joeaverage

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 »
6771
General Mach Discussion / Re: AC servomotor calibration problem
« on: September 01, 2017, 10:23:05 PM »
Hi,
try per page 6.4 and 6.5 'Position with Following Error'. If you go with 'Position without Following Error' you get a harsh control much like a stepper motor
whereas the 'with Following Error' option allows the acceleration discontinuities to smoothed.

Craig

6772
General Mach Discussion / Re: AC servomotor calibration problem
« on: September 01, 2017, 09:00:58 PM »
Hi,
just having a look at PMDX-126 breakout board, depending on where in the world you are may be a good bet, $174US, so not cheap but VERY capable
and reputation for backup is 'best in the business' and you'll only need one, it can handle two 'ports' worth of IO.

Am a bit surprised about the noise. I wonder if you have got it set up for 'exact stop' mode or the servo equivalent of. My servo scarcely hums even at
3500 rpm, have to be carful at slow speeds unless you can actually see something turning its easy to reach in without realising its still running.

Anyway once you get your ESS you'll start to make progress. If you haven't used one before may pay to get in some 'patience pills', you will end up
scratching your head to start with.

Do you have a licenced copy of Mach3? It is not possible to upgrade from Mach3 to Mach4, you have to buy anew, so if you haven't already paid for Mach3
you should consider going straight to Mach4. I changed over to Mach4 at the end of last year. Mach4 is new and still developing, for milling/routing it good
to go as is, and for turning ops, not far behind although I cannot personally attest to that.

Anyway good to talk to you, report back once you get some results...your experience will help others.

Craig

6773
General Mach Discussion / Re: AC servomotor calibration problem
« on: September 01, 2017, 08:21:29 PM »
Hi,
have been looking at the manual and found:
Quote
S-0-0032, Primary Mode of Operation
which sounds very hopeful because the nexy entry is:
Quote
S-0-0033 Secondary Operation Mode 1
Description:
The first secondary operation mode is reserved for the jogging operation
for DKC.
Any other auxiliary operating modes are not permitted.

so while is has a primary and secondary mode the secondary is reserved for on-drive jogging....bugger!

Your requirement are that you be able to perform indexable operations but also require max speed from the spindle. Even if indexing is not required at high
speed as you have only one mode of operation available to you then your solution is to choose the compromise between the two.
May I suggest that you keep the signalling rate to about 200kHz , beyond that and you will start encountering speed difficulties. You've already identified
one, the cheap optos used on breakout boards are unlikely to go anywhere close to 200kHz.

Say you assume a top speed of 3000 rpm...that is 50 revs/sec. 200,000/50=4000. So if you program your encoder to give you 4000 counts/rev then you can
achieve you max speed comfortably. 4000 counts/rev is an angular resolution of 360/4000=0.09 degree or 5.4 arc min, very acceptable. If that were direct
coupled to a 5mm pitch ballscrew it would be equivalent to a 1.25um linear resolution. Any man, hobbyist or not, could be proud of a machine that could turn
in that sort of resolution! The question is are you?

It is not necessary to set a high pulse rate to achieve smooth or quiet operation of a servo, that comes from the concept of microstepping which is a valid
technique to get smooth motion from a stepper motor.

The ESS will require a breakout board and I doubt the one you have will work well enuf. I use two break out boards from Homman Designs in Austrailia, I
live in New Zealand and as much as it pains me to admit it some of those bloody Aussies are really clever and relatively close, they don't have opto isolators.
You need to be a bit careful about what the various IO is hooked to so that power supplies don't fight but the speed is determined by the TTL buffers, easily in
the MHz range. Even if you get a breakout board without optos and with TTL buffers you will still need to use differential signalling and a twisted pair cable to signal
your drive at 200kHz or better. Are you electronically inclined? A simple line driver IC will do the trick over a few meters. Other than making one yourself you could
probably buy something pretty cheaply....they are really simple/small after all.

I have not used Mach3 turn. I know there is a feature that allows you to maintain a constant surface speed but as I say have not used it. I have done plenty of
manual turning over the years on all sorts of lathes none of which had infinitely adjustable speeds and I made plenty of good ********* on them. Is it that important?
Anyway the setup we're talking here can handle that easy.

While the servo software may run on a XP machine you should be able to set up your drive which is then programmed onto an EPROM and thereafter you don't
need the setup software at all. That's certainly how the Allen Bradley software works, I program the drive on any computer that has the Ultraware software on it
and the I take it away and put it on my mill which doesn't have the setup software on it!.

Craig

6774
General Mach Discussion / Re: AC servomotor calibration problem
« on: September 01, 2017, 06:42:53 PM »
Hi,
not quite sure yet but yes it would appear that you can program the resolution of the encoder...page 1.4
Quote
The number of steps per rotor revolution is adjustable between 16 and
65536.
If that the case then why choose max resolution of 65536? That equates to and angular resolution of 20 arc seconds! If your machine is rigid
and accurate enuf to demand a resolution of 20 arc minute let alone 20 arc second then you should be on a professional forum not a hobbyists one!
Additionally if you think you are going to successfully signal your drive at close to 4MHz your dreaming.

The solution I came up with for my servo driven spindle is:
Program the drive to operate in two different modes, the first, simple velocity mode using analogue voltage and, the second, with step/dir position
control.

Most of my milling ops can be done under plain velocity control, in fact its quite adequate to have just a knob you lean over and twist until the tool is
cutting as you want and the leave it there for the rest of the op...in some cases hours. This is the first of the control stratgegies and is selected by one
digital input (pin4 from memory) being held low by Mach. When I want position control for rigid tapping I go to the other mode by asserting the input
pin high. Typically when I'm tapping I don't tap at 3500 rpm! 100 rpm is fine and consequently the pulse output rate is 13kHz, in fact well within the
pulse rate of a parallel port let alone my ESS. As it turns out ESS can signal 467kHz no probs and my drive can receive 500kHz with differential signalling
but transmitting signals of that frequency can be fun and ultimately not even really useful or required for mill operations.

I haven't read the Bosch manual enuf to know whether it allows this dual mode strategy, my Allen Bradley drive does and I've seen it offered in other
makes as well and guess it is therefore standard fare for modern drives. If it is it would allow you to get simple speed control running and then put
your thinking cap on for the indexing mode. I doubt you will need anything like the max speed of the spindle when indexing and so when you 'gear it
down' (electronically speaking) you don't have to sacrifice resolution hugely and yet still end up with a pulse rate that means you don't have to be an
RF/ High Speed Digital engineer to get it to work.

Craig

6775
General Mach Discussion / Re: 2 Axis Dispaly w Encoders
« on: September 01, 2017, 05:48:30 PM »
Hi Bob,
I think that it would work with a rotary encoder its just that rotating 'one click' on your encoder may mean you readout increases by .125mm say.
If the readout is to be useful then the actual distance travelled when your stepper rotates 'one click' has to be identical to the readouts increment for
'one click'.

You could certainly do it with an Arduino or similar. Are you electronically inclined? I thought about it last night and wondered whether an Arduino could
'translate' your rotary encoder to the same as the readout expected from its matching linear encoder. But then thought well if you are using an Arduino why
bother with the readout at all?

You can probably tell I have given this a little thought because I wanted a similar thing for my mill. My inclination at that time was to use linear differential
voltage transformers as the sense elements.  As my experience grew I cam to realise that while my Mach mill doesn't have encoders or LVDTs provided the steppers
don't lose steps, and they don't unless I crash it, then Mach IS THE SAME as the readout, ie I don't really need an independent system at all.

I soon found other ideas and projects to absorb me rather than pursuing this one down a rabbit hole.

Craig

6776
General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor Tuning Problem
« on: September 01, 2017, 05:22:52 PM »
Hi,
I'm a little confused, you say the 'calibration settings', what do you mean? On each motor tuning page there is an entry for 'steps per unit' and that
is what I would call the 'calibration setting'. If it changes then Mach has really lost the plot....shoot it before it escapes and contaminates the world!! LOL

Chris D asks questions which suggest he is thinking as I am that one or more of your axes is losing steps. Is this a new machine? It can take some time
to get things sorted and losing steps is not uncommon until you do.

The first thing is to determine whether its one axis or both. I would recommend writing a small Gcode job just to move your X axis backwards and forwards
at G0 rate, ie rapid rate, several inches multiple times. Then you can remeasure to see if steps have been lost. Its likely that by the time you've got
the settings worked out for the X axis you can use the same settings for the Y axis and solve any problems there too.

Try:
G0 x0y0
x10
x0
x10
x0
x10
x0
x10
x0
x10
x0

should cause your machine to go backward and forwards 10 inches several times but it should stop at the exact same place that you started. If not
then you have a problem. Usually it means that you are trying to drive your steppers too fast or demand that they accelerate faster than they are
capable.

Can you post some numbers for your current settings and the specs of the steppers, power supply and drivers?

Craig

6777
General Mach Discussion / Re: AC servomotor calibration problem
« on: September 01, 2017, 04:59:56 PM »
Hi,
sorry just rereading your post and yes all those sounds the servo is making are because Mach is not signalling the servo drive correctly, it probably
won't hurt the servo but its not how you want it to operate,

Craig

6778
General Mach Discussion / Re: AC servomotor calibration problem
« on: September 01, 2017, 04:56:16 PM »
Hi,
sorry misclick...will carry on.
The faster you try to go the worse it gets. 25Khz is the common standard for most parallel port users. I have experimented with speeds up to 65kHz but
found it too unstable to be of any use and its not like my steppers need it anyway.

How can you solve this problem?

There are several alternatives:
1) Electronic gearing...just about all servo drives offer electronic gearing and in its simplest it means that if Mach applies one pulse to the drive
     it will get 'multiplied by 57', or whatever number you program into it... To take a extereme say you programmed in 65000 then one pulse from
     Mach would cause the servo to turn one rev. You could not however turn half a rev or some other fraction, ie electronic gearing costs you resolution,
     should that matter for a spindle?
2)Analogue voltage control....is there a reason that you selected step/direction, otherwise called position control for your spindle? If you intend to thread
   or require an indexing spindle for gearcutting maybe but in most cases just speed control is enuf. Just about all servo drives offer velocity control by
    application of an analogue voltage of 0-10V. Mach with a suitable breakout board can do this, most CNCers use analogue voltage to control the spindle
    speed.
3)Manual speed control...you could almost certainly have a pot or knob attached to you servodrive which controls the speed and then all Mach would
   have to do is turn it on or off.
4)Get an external motion controller...you mentioned an ESS, I use one and  it produces high quality pulse streams way WAY faster than a parallel port.
   I have a servo for my mill spindle, if I run it in step/direction mode (very unusally I might add) at full speed of 3500 rpm, ie 58 rev per second. The
  encoder is 2000 line or 8000 count per rev, ie at 58 rev/sec the ESS has to produce pulses at 467kHz without the use of electronic gearing. 467kHz is
   low AM band radio frequency! You need some flash signalling electronics to transmit pulses at that speed and your servo at the same speed will be
   58x65000=3.8Mhz. Within the ESS specs but only just and how you will signal your servo drive at that speed is a guess and could your servo drive even
   recognise a signal at that speed? The combination of electronic gearing and an ESS to bring the signalling rate down to a more reasonable 200kHz
   is indicated.

There  are some alternatives for you to think about....I would recommend you start by pursuing the simplest ones and later as your experience and/or
budget demands look at the  more ambitious (indexing) solutions. Analogue voltage and manual speed control are the simplest and ESS and/or electronic
gearing are the way to go for indexing operations.

Craig.

6779
General Mach Discussion / Re: AC servomotor calibration problem
« on: September 01, 2017, 04:15:13 PM »
Hi,
welcome to the forum. You have a few questions there...I'm not sure I can answer any of them!...but can try.

What model servo are you using? Can you post a manual for it or a link to the manual? What model servo drive are you using? Do you have a manual
for it or a link to it?

You say that the servo 'accept 65000 pulses per rev', where did that info come from?

If as you seem to suggest the encoder produces 65000 pulses per rev, it seems an unusual number, I would have expected 65536, ie 2 to the power 16.
Either way the servo drive will expect 65000 pulses to turn one rev at full resolution. If you wanted the servo to turn that one rev in one second then Mach
would have to produce pulses at a rate of 65kHz. It seems unlikely in the extreme that a parallel port is going to produce any thing like enuf pulses.
One rev per second is only 60 rpm, to be useful for a lathe you probably want to spin 2000 rpm ie 33 revs per second.

With Mach open on the Config/Ports and Pins page immediately below the enabled ports boxes there is a box for Kernel speed, the lowest being 25kHz and
the highest is 100kHz. What is your machine set to? The Kernel speed is the repeat speed of the primary internal timer used by Machs pulse engine to generate
pulse streams. If the kernel is set to 25kHz, the norm, then the maximum rate pulse stream it can generate is 25kHz. This will be woefully inadequate for your
spindle. You might ask 'can I increase the kernel speed to be fast enuf for my servo' and the answer is no. Many PCs struggle to produce stable pulse streams
at all, the CPU has too many things going on to concentrate on producing an accurately timed pulse stream.

6780
General Mach Discussion / Re: Motion controllers - Take me to school
« on: August 31, 2017, 09:30:46 AM »
Hi ger21,
at $75 makes them very attractive, would save OP $225 on my scratch budget.

For whatever reason the Leadshine website times out when I try to browse.

Craig

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 »