Hello Guest it is April 19, 2024, 11:46:09 AM

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - joeaverage

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 »
401
SmoothStepper USB / Re: probe won't retract
« on: December 15, 2022, 03:53:32 PM »
Hi,
so where are you measuring the voltage, at the input of the breakout board OR the ESS?

Craig

402
SmoothStepper USB / Re: probe won't retract
« on: December 15, 2022, 02:35:18 PM »
Hi,
If you apply more than 5V to an ESS input you will blow that input for sure. Don't do it.
You should have a breakout board to do the probing which has protection to prevent ANY excess voltage from reaching the ESS.

Craig

403
Hi,
if you think you can write a plugin to match MECHATOLINK then have at it. Its a great way for wasting untold time with a slim prospect of success.

The issue is related to your last comment.

Windows is NOT realtime. When Mach plans the trajectory it posts numeric data, something like, and I am guessing here, a 16 word block of 32 bit integers, with
the integer values of at least some of those words representing the machine coordinates of the controlled point at the conclusion of the 1ms time slice. The next block
of data will correspond to the machine coordinates of the controlled point at the conclusion of this 1ms time slice. Each successive time slice has the coordinates of
the controlled point in 1ms intervals.

Windows processes and plans the trajectory and sends multiple, say 100 blocks of data corresponding to 100ms worth of machine movement. The motion controller will buffer
this data and execute successive time slices at one time slice per millisecond. The motion controller will have a buffer of say 180ms, the ESS default for example.

Windows will then go onto other tasks within the PC. Hopefully Windows will get back to Mach4 and devote some CPU time to it, whereon Mach4 will process and post another bunch of data
enough to fill up the motion buffer, before going on to other tasks. In short Windows will offer Mach4 CPU service of a few ms every 50ms or so. Any concept of realtime, or any device or
machine that depends on a continuous stream of data to operate, like a CNC machine will fail.

Imagine a stepper driven CNC machine. If the data ran out the machine would slow or even stop if Windows/Mach4 cannot keep up. Now when a fresh bunch of data
comes along the steppers would have to accelerate instantly to the previously calculated speed, and that won't happen, ie the machine stalls. A CNC machine CANNOT AFFORD
to run out of data....ever.

Quote
This all implies "hand shaking" of some sort. The controller would need to send "complete" to Mach before another set of date is sent.

This is incorrect. Mach4 issues blocks of trajectory data and it expects it to be executed but there is no feedback mechanism such that Mach4 can confirm that the moves
have been executed.

I suspect that MECHATROLINK requires realtime data, and a native Windows PC cannot do that.

There is a means of creating realtime comms on a Windows PC. Interval Zero is a company that produces software that can cause one core of a multicore CPU to have one core dedicated as a
realtime scheduler. Check out their website.

You would have to do something like this just to get your PC to be able to run in realtime.....and that still does not count the plugin. If you are going to go that way then
buy a Mach4/Kingstar/Interval Zero PC which has enacted realtime ethernet comms in the form of Ethercat. Ethercat will not run your servos, but at least it is a well known
industry protocol with a large pool of compliant hardware to draw from. MECHATROLINK is proprietary to Yaskawa and you can be assured they will do everything they can to keep
you locked in. They have a means of extracting money from your person.....drop your trousers, bend over and they will use instruments to withdraw the money!

To be honest I would sell the Yaskawa servos and drives for whatever you can get for them and use that money to buy Delta servos because they are perfectly matched and the
probability of success is nearly 100%, whereas the probability of success writing your own plugin, either with a realtime scheduler or without is slim at best.

Craig

404
Hi,
at the beginning of this thread you posted:

Quote
Via Mechatrolink, Analog voltage and pulse train reference, and via USB connection

Does your servo drives not have 'pulse train reference'?

Craig

405
Hi,

Quote
It looks like it would take quite a bit on my part to add an RS485 interface to my pc and write code (a plugin) for Mach. So far, no response from ArtSoft about obtaining the SDK. Trying to reverse engineer the USB protocol even worse.

You're going off the deep-end there. Writing a plugin for Mach4 is not easy at best and you don't have the inside knowledge of the Yaskawa MECHATROLINK protocol, which is going
to make it even harder. Worse still is that the data comms over the RS485 link has to be in realtime, and your PC IS NOT A REALTIME DEVICE. Quite frankly you are on a 'hiding to nowhere'.

Some alternatives to consider:
1) Buy some Yaskawa drives THAT ARE pulse input capable
2) Buy matched servos and drives that are pulse capable, and that is the industry norm
3) Buy Yaskawa drive that are Ethercat capable, and then shell out more money to get the Mach4/Kingstar/Interval Zero Ethercat solution
4) Buy a Yaskawa MECHATROLINK  controller

The last option is going to be expensive and you become locked into Yashawa's proprietary protocol. Option 3) is likwise expensive requiring both new Ethercat drives AND a new PC loaded
with Kigstars/IntervalZero' s software, but at least you'd have an Ethercat solution, one of the industry standard protocols.

Options 1) and 2) are a toss up. Yaksawa gear is expensive so a new drive is likely to be nearly as costly as new Delta servo/drive/cables kit. The quality of Yaskawa it that good that its
probably worthwhile saving your existing servo motors....but then again how old are they and how much work have they already done? New Delta servos on the other hand are good quality,
shy maybe of Yaskawa, but still good, and they'd be 'crispy' new and set for twenty plus years service.

Craig

406
Hi,

Quote
Mach4 no longer uses the parallel port but some intermediate software they call a "plugin". While steppers are more of a digital device (step or don't), servos are analog (move this way, this fast, that far, let me know when your done).

Mach4 systems are an open loop Step/Dir control system.

Mach4 is the trajectory planner and posts numeric data describing the position of the controlled point in 1 millisecond time slices. That data is buffered by a motion controller.
In Mach's early days that was a parallel port, but these days an external motion control board is used, an Ethernet SmoothStepper for example. It is the motion controllers job to
turn the trajectory data into accurately timed pulse streams, very much analogous to the parallel port of old. Note that the plugin is the code written by the motion controller
manufacturer to adapt Mach4's output to the particular controller and provide firmware for the controller. Again note that the plugin is SPECIFIC to the particular CONTROLLER,
you cannot mix-and-match at will.

The step direction pulses are fed to the stepper drives or servo drives. I use Delta servos, the B2 series particularly, and they accept Step/Dir pulses and behave very much like steppers,
just on stereoids!

Yaskawa servos are very popular, and most models, not all, but most, have pulse control ie Step/Dir and so can be driven by Mach4 and a motion controller.

The servo itself is closed loop, but the loop is closed by the servo drive....not by Mach4/motion controller. That is what makes Mach4 an open loop system. Of course the servos faithfully
follow the commands of Mach4 and so the distinction is moot. If the servo cannot for whatever reason keep up the servo drive will error out 'following error' and signal Mach accordingly.

What you need to establish is if your particular servo drives can accept pulse inputs. There are Mach4 controllers that can close the loop and produce +10-10V analogue signals to the servo
if you wish to use torque or velocity mode....but cost extra and more complexity. I would be surprised if you COULD NOT drive the Yaskawa drives with pulse input.

Craig

407
SmoothStepper USB / Re: probe won't retract
« on: December 13, 2022, 03:22:19 PM »
Hi,

Quote
Or should I use a different probe voltage? My tester showed 21v at the ESS.

21V at the ESS means the ESS is f*********ed! The ESS is 5V input and output, I would not risk as little as 5.1V
You should have a breakout board to handle the probing that has protection circuits to prevent extraneous voltages from ever reaching
the ESS.

You should try MDIing some probe cycles.

Craig

408
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Axis as a Spindle using Jog? (or Serial??)
« on: December 13, 2022, 02:33:40 PM »
Hi,

Quote
It works just fine in either step/dir or analog - but you have to send RS232 Serial commands to it to change mode.

Is this correct? I use Delta servos, in particular Delta 750W B2 series, which are cost competitive and quality competitive with DMM, and they
are dual mode. That is they can be used as analogue velocity mode OR position mode, and the mode is selected by asserting/de-asserting just one digital input.
I also have a second hand Allen Bradley 1.8kW servo and Ultra3000 drive as a spindle. It too can be dual mode, indeed that is how I use it. Mostly its in velocity
mode and I control it with an analogue voltage derived from PWM from my controller. It is just a speed controlled free running spindle, easy peasy. But when I
assert the one digital input I have assigned for mode control it goes into Step/Dir position mode. This allows me to use it as a C axis which in turn allows me to have an
indexing spindle and/or a coordinated spindle for rigid tapping.

Are you sure the DMM does not have the same ability?

If not, would it be worth considering buying a 750W Delta servo kit?

https://www.fasttobuy.com/flange-80mm-239nm-ac-motor-driver-kits-with-3m-cable-220v-075kw-cnc-servo-motor-for-cnc-router_p28084.html

$438 USD for the servo/drive and cables is pretty fair value.

Craig

409
SmoothStepper USB / Re: probe won't retract
« on: December 13, 2022, 12:19:37 PM »
Hi,
the first error is because Mach cannot find or load an ESS plugin. Do you even have an ESS?

The second error is because you don't have an m40 macro to record the probe data.

Just because I gave you an excerpt does not mean it will run on your machine, but rather it was to show the naure of the
code required.

Craig

410
Hi,
is your spindle driven by a servo? If it is then that means that the spindle is 'position capable' and can in fact be used as a Caxis.

As you know all CNC machines rely on coordinating movement between axes. Thus a straight cut at 45 degrees would be g1 x50 y50 f500,
whereon both the X and Y axes move at the same speed. But there is nothing to prevent you from coordinating a rotary axis and a linear axis.

For example g1 c3600 z -10 f360

This would result in the C axis rotating 10 times, ie 3600 degrees, while simultaneously the Z axis moves 10mm toward the chuck, ie a 1mm pitch at a rate of
1 rev (360 degrees) per second. Note that Mach would coordinate the acceleration phases also so you would end up with a perfect thread.

This approach does not require any specific hardware support from the motion controller. It does require that the spindle or Caxis can rotate at precisely the right
rate so that it can stay coordinated with the Z axis, ie the rotational 'authority' of the spindle is paramount. In this regard it is a similar requirement that the spindle
be capable of a constant speed irrespective of the load as I noted in the previous post.

Craig

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 »