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Messages - joeaverage

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3281
Hi,
CNC can and does try your patience from time to time.

Quote
You say my tool paths should run on Mach 4 in demo without machine movement.  I am going to check that out.  PLEASE LET IT WORK.....

Yes that is correct, if there is no active motion plugin installed ie there is no possibility of machine operation there is no need to impose any
time limits while in Demo. I had Mach4 installed and had been experimenting with it for some months before I took the plunge and licenced it
and during that time while I could not use it to move my machine I could learn to write code etc.

Craig

3282
Hi,
yes the Legacy Parallel Port plugin is indeed required to use a parallel port with Mach4, its also called Darwin.....I'm guessing
the final 'evolution of the parallel port'.

The guy (Art Fennerty) who wrote the original parallel port driver also wrote Darwin, and he pretty much came out of retirement to do it.
He requested and is entitled to a licence fee. Art has made it plain that the Darwin plugin will never be fully featured, stuff like lathe threading and THC will never be
implemented. It was meant as a cheap way for people to get basic Mach4 operation.

Mach4 was always intended to be operated with an external motion controller which provides the real-time support that no Windows PC can deliver.
You might say that mach4 is 'native' to an external motion controller.

You have several choices:
1) Go back to Mach3 and a parallel port
     pros- Cheap fully featured motion control
     cons- Restricted number of PCs and operating systems will work with the parallel port driver, Mach3 development has ceased five years ago
2) Buy a Darwin licence
    pros- Cheap way to get into Mach4
    cons- Limited real-time function support, the cost ($25), the same PC/OS restrictions as apply to mach3 and parallel port
3) Buy an external motion controller like a SmoothStepper a UC 100 or UC300
    pros- Experience the true power of Mach4 with a wide range of compatible PCs
    cons- Cost from about $120USD for the UC100 to about $410 for a SmoothStepper and high quality MB2 breakout board, or go all the way with a Hicon Integra, $600USD

Note that if you download and install Mach4 and stick with the Sim(ulator) motion plugin it ships with (don't install any 'real' motion plugin) then
it will run in Demo mode indefinitely. That means the files will load, the toolpath will be drawn, you can write your own Lua scripts an modify the GUI
to your liking but the machine cannot run....its just a PC only simulation. If you install a motion plugin the files will load without limit, the toolpath will be drawn
without limit but the machine will run for only six minutes before it needs to be re-started until its licenced.

Craig

3283
FAQs / Re: Usb/parallel
« on: January 06, 2019, 05:54:25 PM »
Hi,
you are starting to narrow down the choices.

You need to decide whether you go Mach3 or Mach4. For simple machines there is little to pick and choose between the two. For a new build
machine mach4 makes sense.

All development ceased on Mach3 over five years ago. Any bugs it has, and it does have them, will not be fixed. That is not to say that Mach does not
work or that it doesn't have a huge user base, it does. A while back Microsoft updates screwed with a lot of Mach3 users installations. A patch has been
formulated but there may well come a time when no patch is forthcoming. There is no cheap upgrade path from Mach3 to Mach4. It does not make sense
to me to buy Mach3 for $175 only to face having to buy Mach4 for $200 a year or two down the track.

There is a wide selection of controller/breakout hardware, including Chinese stuff that works with Mach3, and the prices reflect that competition.
The better US and European brands not so much.

If you are inclined to go with Mach4 then not all controllers are equal. The real-time support features are not all the same. I have attached a pic
of what I believe is the current situation with regards the recognized brands with respect to Mach4 functionality.
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THIS IS ONLY MY OWN BEST KNOWLEDGE!!! I do not have manufacturers guarantees or anything like it, please don't quote me
and do confirm your selection with the manufacturer.

You see that the ESS and UC300 require a breakout board and I would recommend one for the 57CNC. A breakout board provides some measure of protection
for the controller which is the reason I recommend it for the 57CNC.

CNCRoom do nice breakout boards for both the UC300 and the ESS, in fact they do combos, ESS+MB2 OR UC300+UB1. The breakout boards themselves
are about $150.

There are cheaper alternatives. I use the MB02 (I know, confusing between CNCRoom and Homann Designs boards!) by Homann Designs in Austrailia.
They are about $40USD each, I have two. Note they don't have dedicated relays or a PWM to ananlogue converter, I added those myself.
Even cheaper is the C10 from CNC4PC at $23 each, there again you probably will want two. The C10 does not have dedicated relays or an D to A converter
either.

My forte is electronics and so I made whatever specialized circuits I required rather than buy a solution from CNCRoom. If you cansolder stuff together
you too could take advantage of the cheaper boards, if not then go for the CNCRoom boards.

As I posted earlier much of the other machine hardware steppers, drivers etc may well be replaced or upgraded throughout the life of the machine. A good controller
and breakout board will last the life of the machine. It makes economic sense to get a good quality controller/ breakout board. Given the long service life the
controller/breakout board is actually one of the cheapest parts of the machine....it just comes as a bit of a shock at the beginning!

Craig

3284
FAQs / Re: Usb/parallel
« on: January 06, 2019, 01:28:02 PM »
Hi,

Quote
I'm in England by the way

You poor, poor sick little puppy! My heart bleeds....LOL

I live in New Zealand so when it comes time to get hard to find parts from around the world...trust me I know.

CNC4PC is CNCDrive's distributor and so you can be confident of getting the real thing. The UC100 has a short USB cable which plugs into your PC
and a DB25 parallel port plug as an output. You might think of it as a USB to Parallel converter, but its not, its way to clever to just be called a converter.
Inside it is an FPGA and it is way WAY clever, none the less it does perform like a converter.

For a simple machine such as you have in mind a UC100 would be adequate. A UC100 has 12 outputs and 5 inputs.
Inputs are very constricted. You need one input for an EStop and you'll certainly want one for a probe, so you now only have three
left for limits, homes and anything else you require. It can be done, after all that was what many of us did when we had only the parallel port.

A couple of years ago I bought an Ethernet SmoothStepper (ESS), and that has 51 inputs and outputs, enough to shake a stick at! For the extra few dollars/pounds/
Euros/sheckels I would go for a more capable device than a UC100. CNC4PC will be able to supply a UC300 for instance. If I'm not mistaken PoKeys is a UK company.
The ESS is US made.

With a UC300 or an ESS you would require a breakout board/boards. Gerry recommends CNCRoom products as good quality at around $150. There are much cheaper
breakout boards that perform perfectly adequately also. Note that the UC300 and the ESS are Ethernet connected and is preferred over USB.

There are two brands that are worth mentioning on the basis of industrial quality.

The Hicon Integra by Vital Systems (US) is a very capable controller both Mach3 AND Mach4 and superbly built. It can be activated for analogue servos, THC etc.
The entry price for the Hicon Intergra is $600 USD.

The CSMIO by CSLabs (Poland) also has an excellent reputation for build quality and is very capable with Mach3. Their Mach4 plugin is buggy...it does work
but for the money paid its not really up to snuff. The company used to have an excellent reputation for after sales support but there has been disturbing rumours
that that has changed and they are not nearly as responsive as they used to be. Excellent build quality for about 600 Euro.

I personally would not consider CSMIO partly because of price but mostly because of their lack of support/enthusiasm for Mach4. For you being in the UK
may well find them a better fit.

You may find the thought of laying out some serious dough for a controller and/or a breakout board a steep step to take. If you choose wisely you will
use that controller for many years, even as ALL the rest of the machine gets upgraded and replaced, the same controller will still be churning away.
The controller is the heart of the machine, be prepared to spend a bit of time researching the features offered by each and be prepared to pay for
quality. You'll pay double if you try to buy on the cheap.....a few hours reading on the forum will convince you that those who buy cheap seldom have
a smooth experience.

Craig

3285
FAQs / Re: Usb/parallel
« on: January 06, 2019, 05:38:48 AM »
Hi,
a parallel port runs on Windows 7 32bit and earlier OS's only and only desktop PCs at that.

Any 64 bit OS will require an external motion controller, some are USB connected, some are Ethernet connected.
Ethernet connected is preferred, much lower latency and the connection is much more resistant to electrical noise.

If you have Fusion 360 then the PC on which it runs must be 64 bit as Fusion won't un on 32 bit machines. If it was your intention to
run Mach on the same PC then you require an external motion controller.

There are three very similar (good) USB input/DB25 output motion controllers, the UC100 (CNCDrive), the PMDX-411 (PMDX) and the 57CNCdb25 (PoKeys).
They have the equivalent of one ports worth of inputs/outputs, OK for simple machines but a bit restrictive if you want more features. All around $120.

Note that the UC100 is very popular so there are hundreds of Chinese knock-offs on Amazon and EBay. DONT GO THERE, they are not nearly as good as the real thing.
Buy genuine from CNCDrive or their nominated distributor.

If you want more inputs and outputs then there are a few economical multi-port devices like the UC300 (CNCDrive), The Ethernet SmoothStepper (Warp9 TD),
the 57CNC (PoKeys). These devices cost a bit more, around $150-$200 and the UC300 and the SmoothStepper require a breakout board as well, probably allow
as much as another $150 for a good breakout board. The good news is that these boards all have over 50 inputs and outputs, enough for you to expand.

You will note that I have not mentioned any Chinese made stuff......they kick you off here if you swear and Chinese made CNC electronics make me swear!
If you want to buy cheap then have a go but you will find that the Chinese manufacturers won't help you to get it to work and a lot of the regular contributors
on the forum will ignore your pleas for help as well.....we're heartily sick of trying to get cheap Chinese stuff to work.

At this time there are five mainstream manufacturers of Mach4 ready boards including the UC300, the Smoothstepper and the 57CNC. Thus one of those devices would
do Mach3 OR Mach4. Note that because Mach4 is fairly new and emerging the controllers have varying levels of real-time function support. Thus if you need something
like lathe threading or THC then you should do some research before you buy.

There is one Chinese manufacturer who claims to have a Mach4 controller, XHC. Its quite a nicely designed and built device but the Mach4 plugin is buggy as hell.
If some one tries to sell you one walk run away!

Tell us a bit more about what you want your machine to do and what sort of budget you have to do it and maybe we can pick a reasonable solution.

Craig


3286
Hi,
yes as I suspected, that screen you've linked to is the old pre-GUI screen. If you manage to crash your GUI you can under certain circumstances
get that screen to come up....it usually means you've screwed up BIGTIME! My original suggestion stands.....take it outside and shot it!

The .wx screensets are the real deal...how Mach is meant to be.

Quote
Still my life would be much easier if I could just open up that config menu on the old one. Huh

Because you can't compare the two setups you are having to learn to set up your new installation.....its not that life would be easier but rather you wouldn't
have to put the effort in to learn.

Craig

3287
Hi,

Quote
so I assume that means 'Mach4 is enabled' (whatever that means!?)

'Mach Enabled' OR 'Mach Disabled' is the Enable/Disable button at the lower left....same as the Reset button in Mach3.
It just means you cannot configure either Mach or any of the plugins with Mach enabled....more for safety I'd guess.

As to why your working copy should NOT have a Configure tab is a mystery......you should take it outside and shoot it...put it out of its misery!

Would please open up your working copy and tell us what screenset is in operation. I suspect that its not a .wx screen set but another more primitive
screen....I can't recall the name of, maybe .Lua screen, hoping Daz-the-Gaz or Smurph might be able to help.

The screen set in use is at the lower right of the screen.

Craig

3288
General Mach Discussion / Re: Windows xp vs Windows 7
« on: January 06, 2019, 12:11:05 AM »
Hi,

Quote
Probably one of the reasons they stopped developing mach3

No, I don't think so. It was explained to me that Mach3 had become a large sprawling conglomerate of code. Many features of Mach3 relied on
some rather cheap and nasty tricks, if you fixed this problem then several other things stopped working. In short the code had become
so unwieldy that maintaing and developing it had become problematic at best.

Mach4 is a complete re-write and uses a much more structured and engineered approach. It is so different that its not possible to reuse code or
provide a simple update path, I mean even the licencing mechanisms are different.

I used to be able to leave my machine on overnight and come back the next day to pick up from where I left off. That tends to make me think its a PC
thing not Mach.

Just had a thought....(it didn't hurt that much either!).....could it be tha watchdog timer in Mach? Have you disabled it?

Craig

3289
Hi,
OK, you are making some progress. You might consider Windows 7 32 bit a backward step....but in fact you are moving into the zone where a parallel port will
work...it rather dates the technology.

Lets consider the evidence you have at the moment.

First you have got the direction pins working. Does that not tell you that the parallel port is outputting something? I mean if its producing direction signals
surely it could also produce step signals, they are just outputs after all.

There are a couple of things that you can try. Given that step signals will turn on and off rapidly I would expect to see a voltage of something like 2.5V
(half of 5V) when step signals are being issued. If you do not see that sort of voltage then either the parallel port is faulty, but we have already discounted that
so then it probably means Mach is not producing the signals at all.

When you are testing your motors how are you doing it...by jogging or by MDI? I would recommend MDI.

The other thing you need to check is to make sure the G540 is being enabled, I'm not sure whether it has a constant Enable signal or whether it relies on
a charge pump. Either way make sure that the 540 is enabled.

One other thing you should do is hook up an Estop switch. Not only do you need it for safety purposes but it would also prove whether the switch/540 and
parallel port can signal back to Mach. It would give you more (hard) evidence that the port is working or conversely that it is not.

Craig

3290
Hi,
this post should be on the Mach4 board for maximum exposure, no doubt Tweakie will transfer it in good time.

I can answer some of those questions.

First is that when you download and install a current build of Mach4 it comes with the Sim(ulator) plugin as motion controller.
Once you load the ESS plugin and its signature file in the Mac4Hobby Plugins folder open the Configure/Control/Plugins
screen and enable all the required plugins including the ESS. Note you will have to restart Mach for the changes to be flushed to the .ini file
and then be read and enacted at the next restart.

Next step is Configure/Select MotionDevice....if you have correctly enabled the ESS plugin it will appear in the list an available as a motion control device.
Restart mach.....again!

Note that without a proper licence file it will be in Demo, it will run for six minutes before you have to shut down an restart. Mach4 lincencing differs from
Mach3. In Mach4 each PC is licenced, up to a maximum of five. If you install another OS for instance the PC will have a new PCID and you will have to release the
licence of the previous PCID and get a new licence for the new PCID. NFS permit seven such licence transfers in a two year period.
You can do this yourself, NFS has a self-managed licence page on the website. Your re-seller should have a coupon or similar so you can set up your own
licence management account.

I'm surprised that Mach is locked, you have to lock it yourself, it doesn't do so unless you request it.
On the Operator tab check the Unlock button, if you have no password and you shouldn't unless you provide one earlier, just hit <return>.

Let us know how you get on.

Craig

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