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Messages - joeaverage

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141
Hi,

Quote
The reason I say that it is not simple, lets take an easy one such as the Keyboard Function, I would think that this would have an easy option to make it come on as soon as Mach is opened but it does not.

When you fire up Mach in standard form the keyboard is inactive, as a safety measure. Press one button and its active....seems simple enough.
If you wish it come on automatically at start up and accept the risk of an active keyboard rather than actively and specifically turning the
keyboard on, then add one line to the PLC script:

KeybordsEnableToggle().....thats it, one line of code in the PLC script. If this is the feature you want then turn it on!

Craig

142
Mach3 under Vista / Re: 3.3v parallel port help
« on: March 25, 2023, 09:17:02 PM »
Hi,
you might try PMDX. They stock, or used to stock, parallel port cards which were known to be a good match to Mach.

Another alternative is to use an external motion controller like a UC100. They plug into the USB port of the PC and have a DB25 socket for output.
You might say its a USB to parallel converter, but in fact the UC100 has a proper FPGA inside and is way WAY WAY cleverer than any USB-parallel converter.
USB-parallel converters do not work for Mach by the way.

If a UC100 appeals then buy a genuine one, not one of the Chinese fakes on Ebay or Amazon....they are just not a patch on the real thing.

Quote
So far the only thing I can think of is to cut a db25 cable open and pull out the wires for pins 1 and 17, (the outputs for mist and flood coolant, which im using to pull relays for an air cylinder and the conveyor) and slap in 2 small 3v relays and inject 5v to the geckodrive.

If your going to do that don't waste your time trying to find 3V relays, use a bipolar transistor or a MOSFET and amplify the signal. One transistor and maybe a couple of resistors per
signal and your done.

Craig

143
Hi,
I don't think so.

When you have a Master/Slave pair the trajectory data for each motor must be identical and that in turn  depends on how Mach communicates that trajectory to
the motion controller.

My understanding is that the numeric data is in the form of Steps rather than Units (of distance).

Lets say for example your axis has a Steps/Unit value of 500, ie 500 Steps per mm. If in a given 1 millisecond time slice the axis is required to move 0.23mm or 0.23 x 500=115.
Imagine for instance and the current Step count is 4567890....then the next Step count at the end of the time slice will be 4568005 (4567890+115). In effect Mach is specifying
a cumulative Step count where the axis has to be at the end of each 1 ms time slice.

If you have a Master/Slave arrangement the both motors will be given the same numeric Step count data. The motion controller will issue the same number of steps to each
motor driver and yet they will move different distances by virtue of having unequal pitch. It is not my understanding that the motion controller uses or converts the number
of Steps based on the Steps/unit value, that calculation happens in Mach....not the motion controller, ie it is not possible for the motion controller to apply a correction that would have
both motors travel the same difference.

I can only see one way where this would work.

I don't know whether you are familiar with AC servos but they all have 'Electronic Gearing'. This allows you to program the drive to accept a certain number of Steps to turn one revolution.
For instance if you had servo with a native encoder count of 160,000 count per rev (I picked this because this is exactly what my Delta servos have) but you can program it to accept
2500 Steps per revolution. If this were  direct coupled to a 5mm pitch screw then the Steps/unit value would be 500 Steps/mm.

Lets say you had a 0.2inch pitch screw at the other end of the gantry or in metric 5.08mm per rev. If you programmed the Electronic Gearing parameters in the servo drive to
2540 Steps per revolution then with 2500 Steps actually applied this end of the gantry would move 2500/2450 x 5.08=5mm. If the same number of Steps (2500) were applied to the
metric screw it would move exactly 5mm also.

Using the concept of electronic gearing we have made both ballscrews identical to each other...a nifty trick!! This requires that you have servos that utilise Electronic Gearing and this is
a feature of the servo drive.

The rather more complete answer to your question is that, at least to my knowledge, Mach cannot provide different Step data streams for a Master/Slave pair, nor can a motion controller
make a correction. The only solution I am aware of is to make use of Electronic Gearing in a servo drive to correct a difference in pitch between two screws.

Please note this is my understanding of how Mach works....and that I have proven again and again IS FALLIBLE. For instance if the numeric trajectory data to the motion control
is in Units (distance) then it may be possible. Yet another possibility is the Mach produces two numeric streams, one for each motor. In that case it might be possible for Mach to apply
different Step/Unit values for each motor such that they move in unison.

I'm hoping Smurph may see this post and respond......from the 'horses mouth' so to speak....sorry Smurph!

Craig

144
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Modification help
« on: March 24, 2023, 10:21:10 PM »
Hi,
yes it should be possible to do all those things.

1) Consider the APIs:                                      (Mach4Hobby/Docs/Mach4CoreAPI)
Code: [Select]
LUA Syntax:
rc = mc.mcJogSetRate(
number mInst,
number axisId,
number percent)

Description:
Set the jog rate of the given axis as a percentage of the axis' maximum velocity.


and

Code: [Select]
LUA Syntax:
rc = mc.mcJogSetInc(
number mInst,
number axisId,
number increment)

Description:
Set the current jog increment for the give axis.

So these two APIs allow you to programmatically set the jog rate.

When Mach first loads the Screen Load script runs. You could place a macro in the Screen Load script that sets the jog rate and increment rate to some suitable value.

Another variation of the same idea: Once Mach loads the PLC script runs every 10ms or so. There is a counter, and on the first time the PLC runs, ie immediately after
Mach, loads you could append code to set the jog and increment rates, and it would run exactly once at first start up.

Another possibility is to test whether mach is Homed, if it is not then set the rates to what you consider appropriate. You could do this in the PLC script, and the test would be made
every 10ms or so. Its not a very efficient way to run code but it has the virtue of simplicity.

2) There is already a function in Mach4 coded to do exactly that. See the attached pic. The function is KeyboardsInputsToggle(). I'm guessing the function is defined in the screen load script.
Either way just invoke this function at the first run (only) of the PLC script. One line is all it takes. Note that I found this by opening the screen editor an looking at the Events tab of the Keyboard
Jog Enable button.

3) Use the screen editor to make the buttons. Each button should have a script to set the jog rate. You can put the buttons wherever you please, often the problem is space to do so.

For instance, see attached pic. I have placed two buttons on the FileOps tab, they are named Btn100 an Btn101, but you can call them anything you like. I have pictured the Properties tab
of Btn101. You'll see that I've give it a label of '20% Jog Rate'. Experiment with size, labels, colors etc.
The second pic is the Events tab of the same button, namely Btn101. Note that you have quite a range of events and/or actions that can be taken as a result. The ones most likely to be of
use to you are the Left-Up script, the Left-Down script or the Clicked-Script. I doubt any of Mach prepackaged Actions are going to be suitable. Basically you just put a function call
in one of the scripts like:

SetJogRate20()

And then in the screen load script define the function and what you want it to do:

function SetJogRate20()
......
.....
.....
end

and populate the script with the API calls to set the rate per your preference.

Craig

145
General Mach Discussion / Re: Use Home Offset to square the machine?
« on: March 24, 2023, 06:05:08 PM »
Hi,
I'll repeat my previous comment....I don't have a gantry machine so I can at best tell you how I understand the ESS to work.

Firstly note that Homing is a realtime operation and must perforce be done by the ESS, and it does so autonomously.

If you have a gantry with two motors, say motor1 and motor2, one will be the Master and one will be the Slave. This is done on the
Configure/Control/AxisMapping tab.

When you Home an axis with dual motors you use Configure/Control/HomingSoftLimits tab. You would ascribe equal priority to the two motors.
For instance you might ascribe the X axis (motor0) as priority 1, the two Y axis motors (motor1 and motor2) ascribe them priority 2, and the Z axis (motor3) as priority 3.

You will need a Home switch for each Y axis motor. Most take this to mean that you require two switches, and that is the normal intent, but need not be the case.
Each motor will have a Home signal, motor1Home and motor2Home....but both of those signals could be populated or driven by just one switch. Why you would
do so is a good question, but the important point is to understand that each motor requires its own Home signal......but need not have an individual switch, or another
way of saying it the one switch could 'drive' more than one signal.

So now when the Y axis is being Homed both motor1 and motor2 are unlinked, that is to say that the Master/Slave relationship is temporarily broken. Both motors are simultaneously
driven towards the home location, and must obviously be driven at the same speed or the gantry would be hopelessly skewed. Both motors will drive until each one
activates its own home switch as indicated by its Home signal whereon that motor will stop. Then both motors will back up until its Home switch deactivates. Note that this would mean
that each end of the gantry would be homed to its switch. If the switches are out of square then the gantry will also be out of square.

This is where you ask can one or other of the motors be backed off some additional distance to accommodate that the switches are not square? I don't know, that is a question you should ask
Andy on the Warp9 forum. It may be possible and then it would just be a case of making the right settings and the problem is solved.

There is another way that this could be done, and if the ESS cannot do it autonomously then this method will certainly work but requires you code it in Lua.

In the Mach API (Mach4Hobby/Docs/Mach4CoreAPI) there are these functions:

Code: [Select]
LUA Syntax:
rc = mc.mcAxisUnmapMotor(
number mInst,
number axisId,
number motor)

Description:
Unmap the motor from the axis.

and:

Code: [Select]
LUA Syntax:
rc = mc.mcAxisMapMotor(
number mInst,
number axisId,
number motorId)

Description:
Map a motor to an axis.

So these APIs allow you to programmatically link and unlink Master and Slave motors. Just as a matter of interest this is impossible in Mach3. What this means now is you
can 'jiggle' each motor independently back and forth a wee bit until you are happy that the gantry is perfectly square. Then you link the together again, that is to say you restore the Master/Slave
relationship. As a added bonus you can use:

Code: [Select]
LUA Syntax:
rc = mc.mcAxisGetHomeInPlace(
number mInst,
number axisId,
number homeInPlace)

Description:
Set the axis' Home In Place flag.

You can use this to allow the two motors, now perfectly square, to be Homed, ie the machine coordinates of both motors being set to zero and then set the HomeInPlace flag
back to normal. Note that if you choose not to do this then the machine coordinates of the two motors will not be the same. Lets say for instance the the Master is Homed
and therefore its machine coordinate at its Home switch will be 0, ie normal. But you Slave motor has been 'jiggled' 0.1mm to square the gantry and so its machine coordinates
will be -0.1mm.

If you used a g53 move say:
g53 g0 y342 for example both Y axis motors would drive to machine coordinate 342mm, and the 0.1mm skew that you had carefully corrected out of it would now be forced back into the
gantry....rather counter productive.

All in all the APIs that allow you to link and unlink motors and the HomeInPlace feature can be used to code some very sophisticated squaring routines, well beyond what any motion
control  like an ESS might be expected to do. This is where you might get a taste of the true power of Mach4....you can code it to do things which have been hithertofore considered impossible.

Craig

146
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Script da mach3 a mach4
« on: March 24, 2023, 05:17:30 PM »
HI,
as I said you chose the hardest thing to start with....why? Can you not avoid having to use a wxWidget?
Can you not find an existing wxWidget that does what you want that you can copy?

Presumably if you include an m6() macro call in your Gcode file you want to change tools? Why then do you need to stop and ask the operator?
Is it not redundant?

As it turns out wxWidgets, at least the simple ones that we Mach hobbyists are likely to use, are actually fairly simple....but, and this is the big but......
they still have to be learned. With a concerted effort and some coaching you could be up and running crafting your own widgets in 6 to 10 hours or
so. Most people get really pissed off and walk away long before they learn what needs be learnt and seem to imagine that developing CNC software
should be a s easy as falling off a log. Spoiler....ITS NOT!! Ask yourself the question 'am I the sort of person who gets 'stuck in' and masters challenges or am I the sort
of person who whinges because it does not fall into place automatically?'

As I have said before and I will repeat it, 'the simplest way to include a widget in your code is to find an existing widget which is close and then modify it.'
That is exactly what I did and started from there. I have used wxFormBuilder a few times since then, but still have only a sketchy understanding of it....but I can
with care and patience use it to craft some bloody nifty widgets, even if I do say so myself. Total investment of my time ......guessing 20 hours.

May I suggest you think about an m6() macro that does not require a widget. That is not to say that operator input cannot be used. For instance you might wish to
manually jog to a tool change location, Mach can do that, and all it requires is a <Cycle Start> button press to resume its automatic operation once you have jogged to the required location.

Quote
They could have created at least one team to which to make paid script requests.... too bad!!!.

They do, NFS do write code for people and get paid for it including Mach4Hobby and Mach4Industrial.

If you have paid for Mach4Industrial you'll find that NFS roll out the red carpet for you, the extra support is the most substantial extra cost of Industrial.

Unless I'm much mistaken you don't really need that sort of help...you just need to start writing your own code, but do yourself a favor and leave out wxWidgets to start with!

Craig

147
Hi,
speaking of what I should be doing, I have attached a pic of my fourth axis, I finished it about 8 weeks ago.

I will take the chuck off and substitute a trunnion table and a fifth axis soon. The pic attached is of the fifth axis parts I've got so far.
I have the 750W Delta servo and drive, a you 'beauty' low lash <1 arc min Atlanta Drives servo reducer. I need to reduce the profile so the
trunnion can rotate +90 and -90 degrees without the servo fouling the mill bed so this servo  will be pulley and belt coupled, the pulleys are pictured.
Still need the belt. Have a big lump of 4140 steel that has been rough turned for the C axis platter.

Will hopefully be able to squeeze the budget a bit tighter and get the steel for the trunnion table cut next week. Looking for 32mm thick for the base of the trunnion
and 20mm thick for the uprights. Will have to be bolted.....my nearest heat treat facility is now 1500km away, although this should not be huge or overly heavy
so welding and heat treating may yet be on the cards.

Craig

148
Hi,

Quote
NOTE!!!! Build 5000 is having probing issues with the ESS plugin... Mach4 Build 4809 with ESS 283 is what we are recommending at the moment. January 15th, 2023

Yes, that is correct. When NFS released build 5000 there are certain sections of code which now run blazingly fast, so much so that many motion controllers including the ESS couldn't
keep up. It created a race condition. Most of the motion board manufacturers are making changes necessary to accommodate the much increased speed.

My current build is 4612 and ESS 277. I've been using them for months, may be even a year. Prior to that I had been using build 38nn?? or something, I can't remember, but it had been in use on my
machine for two or three years. I eventually updated to 4612 but as far as I know there is nothing in the latest builds (5000 or thereabouts) I need or want....so why bother?
It comes down to what I posted earlier, my machine is for making parts, if the software is working well now then all I'm doing is wasting time instead of getting on with the work I should be doing.

Craig

149
Hi,

Quote
I don't believe Mach4 is capable of helping the non-programmer which really sucks.

Rubbish, Mach4 is ready to rock for all basic machines, no programming required. You do need to turn on or off a couple of features but that's it. You can be making chips in under an hour.

Homing in Mach4 behaves exactly like Homing in Mach3.

Quote
I really would have thought the basics would have stayed the same like backing off a switch.

That was NEVER in Mach3, certainly at the beginning, and it is still not in Mach3 per se but in  the  motion controller....and always has been. Whats happening here is that you have
become accustomed to the features of Mach3 which have sought of evolved....and imagine that they are standard features....they are not. Now you have to actually understand how they
work and replicate that behaviour in Mach4 and given you do not understand how it was done in Mach3 makes it tricky. Its not that Mach4 is hard just that Mach3 had a lot of funny
work-around features which should probably never have been there.

The people whom struggle with Mach4 are those with a long history of Mach3. They seem to imagine the shortcuts, work-arounds and downright bugs in Mach are the 'standard' way of
doing things or worse the only way of doing things...they are not. Mach4 is and was purposely designed to be as close to identical as possible to Fanuc 21i, being as close to an industry standard
as there is. Mach4 can be made to do all the things that Mac3 could and many many more, but whats really important is that it conform to Fanuc21i right from the get go out of the box.
All the frilly bits can be added later.

When I first stared with Mach4, I had within a few months programmed a lot of features that replicated what Mach3 had....but over a period of time they have all disappeared.
In the end I decided they added little or nothing....so the only custom parts to my current Mach4 installation are actually things I use and are productive for me. Anything
else is just wasting time when I should be getting on with the paying work.

Quote
I can't even get the Jog button to jog the freaking gantry .010" increments. The green light comes on but it still runs full tilt.

Have you filled out the jog increments on the Control Plugin page? It sounds like you are suffering from after-run which is where the 'clicks' or increments accumulate faster than the
machine can consume them and therefore they get 'saved' up and will carry on even once you stop jogging. This is a common fault, and used to happen in Mach3 in exactly the same
way and for exactly the same reason. It turns out the machine is doing exactly what you tell it to do.....but your settings have made after-run that much more likely.

There are a couple of threads on the Mach4 board that deal with exactly this and there is a thread on the Warp9TD forum that deals with it also.

Quote
What board do you use to supply all those inputs?

I made my own. Its not that dissimilar to an MB3 by CNCRoom. All three ports are fully developed, all 24V tolerant. All Step/Dir outputs (12 of them) are differential.
Has a 24VDC output for the Z axis brake, a built-in high linearity PWM to analog converter and ON/OFF relay for a VFD driven spindle.

Note that my breakout board has eight pin sockets down the lower side, one plug for each axis servo, all of them X,Y,Z,A,B and C....and yes I have a C axis, that is an angular position
capable spindle that allows me to do rigid tapping.

Craig

150
General Mach Discussion / Re: Use Home Offset to square the machine?
« on: March 23, 2023, 07:39:22 PM »
Hi,
I think the Avid machines use the ESS as motion control, and the ESS can auto-square a gantry. It requires two switches, one at each end of the gantry,
and presumably set such that the gantry would be square if it were Homed to both switches.

I don't have a gantry machine, so I'm not familiar with how the settings are made to achieve this result, but I'm sure if you posted on the Warp9TD forum there'd be plenty
whom do know.

Craig

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