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Messages - joeaverage

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101
Mach3 under Vista / Re: Asking for very basic guidance.
« on: April 07, 2023, 03:33:49 PM »
Hi,
that is an RnR board, one of the many Chinese made clones and exactly the type I recommend against. They are as you say cheap,
and to my way of thinking is the only good thing about them. It's your money, time and energy, and thus its your choice.
Good luck.

Craig

102
Mach3 under Vista / Re: Asking for very basic guidance.
« on: April 06, 2023, 10:03:32 PM »
Hi,
Mach, does not matter whether Mach3 or Mach4 requires a motion controller.

In the earliest days of Mach, Art Fennerty wrote a parallel port driver that converted Mach's (that is Mach the application) trajectory into streams of accurately
timed pulse necessary to drive motors like your TB6560 driver board. This piece of software  resides right at the very heart of your PC, if fact it sort of elbows Windows
out of the way while it does the business.

Many, many software experts and engineers said 'will not ever happen, Windows can't work that way'....well Art proved them wrong. There are very few people on the planet today whom
know exactly how Art achieved it, and all these years later I've not seen anyone who has matched it or even got anything to work like Mach3's pulse engine.

This was the start of the hobby CNC revolution, because hobbyists could use cheap software to run machine which had hitherto required very expensive dedicated controllers.
Not that this was a complete tour-de-force...there were and are still some hiccups. Mach's pulse engine (as distinct for Mach the app) can only run on Windows 7 or earlier, XP
being the favorite at the time and 32bit at that. It would not run or run poorly on laptops. Worse it seems that some PCs did well an yet another even a better seeming PC would not
work. Any software on the PC other than Mach would often totally screw Mach's pulse engine.

None-the-less many tens of thousands got their CNC start from Mach3 and Machs parallel port engine.

Then came external motion controllers, most famously the UC100 by CNCDrive and the Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9TD. Both companies are still manufacturing their
respective devices to this day. Mach (the app) still runs on the PC while the pulse steams are generated by the dedicated hardware in the motion board. This relieves the PC
of generating pulse streams, a function at which it was never very good at. It also meant that you could use a 64 bit OS's like Windows10 and laptops because Mach (the app) is fine with
that, but the PC does not have to support  Mach's parallel port pulse engine.

The UC100 is connected to the PC by USB and its output is a DB25 parallel port socket. You might ask well I have a USB to parallel adapter...why does it not work?.
An adapter might work with a printer but its not cannot generate accurate pulse streams, ie IT IS NOT a motion controller. The UC100 has an FPGA inside and that
makes it way WAY WAY smarter than any USB to parallel adapter. If a UC100 appeals, and many thousands use one, then buy a genuine one, not some BS
Chinese made copy off Amazon or Ebay. A genuine UC100 is about $120USD,  if someones peddling one for less than that stay away from it, its likely fake, sometimes
you can still smell the chop suey on them.

Another alternative that was invented at the same time was the Ethernet SmoothStepper and has been a bit of a standard ever since. I have one and have used it and Mach4 for eight
years. It is Ethernet connected which has better noise immunity than USB and less latency. It also has three parallel port output sockets, ie 51 IO's whereas the UC100
has only one port output with 17 IO's. Lastly the ESS runs at 4Mhz whereas the UC100 runs at 100kHz, making the ESS highly suitable for high resolution servos and encoders.
As you might have guessed it's more expensive too, at $190USD.

There are other motion controllers, like the Hicon by Vital Systems and the CSMIO by CSLabs, but $600 and 600Euro respectively. The PoKeys 57CNC is well priced at around $150
as are some of the UC100's bigger brothers like the UC400 and UC300. There are also some cheap ($20-$30) Chinese made USB controllers called variously RnR and BitSensor....something, something.
They are all clones of each other and in my opinion are all BS. There are plenty who use them and many will object to my characterisation of them....but my opinion is what it
is, whatever someone else thinks. If you choose one of the later...good luck to you....you may find some support but I will not be among them.

All-in-all there are enough motion controllers that you should research and understand, each with advantages and disadvantages. The US and European brands are well supported and
have a very positive commercial history and are my recommendation.

That raises the last question about Mach3 or Mach4. If you want to use a parallel port then Mach3 is really the only choice. There is a Mach4 parallel port called Darwin (written by
none other than Art Fennerty) that has a $25 license fee....but its limited in certain realtime features like lathe threading, THC etc. If you chose a Chinese made motion controller
they are limited to Mach3. There is one Mach4 ready Chinese made controller, XHC, avoid like the plague......its so buggy everyone who has ever bought one has thrown it out.
If you choose a UC100 or an ESS or a PoKeys...or in fact any of the European and US brands they can run Mach3 OR Mach4.

As I have said I've used Mach4 for eight years and its superb, and still growing whereas Mach3 development ceased eight years ago.

Once you leave the emotion aside the try reading this thread:

https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=42891.msg278176#msg278176

A motion controller like an ESS and Mach4 and your CNC hobby is going places, and you'll still be using then in ten years which actually make them a cheap
purchase. Lesser brands or software are likely to disappoint and result in you having to buy the real thing later.

Craig

103
Hi,

Quote
Just seems silly that its not really documented and why do spindles need to be associated with all things an axis motor...

The problem is not that the spindle depends on the axis motor per se, but rather Mach4 in its totality requires any and all axes to be 'complete'

When Mach fires up it complies many chunks of Lua code together into one big 'master' chunk. If any little bit of that code is faulty or is missing
a particular and a required bit of data is missing then the 'master' chunk can't compile either....and that stops everything, spindle included.

The case for documentation is made again and again. All I can report is the sense that I have picked up from eight years of using Mach4.

NFS is a small company with few employees and their efforts are directed mostly and particularly those areas and projects that generate income for the company.
Any company large or small depends for its very existence on income, and documentation comes low on that priority list.

Firstly developing and maintaining accurate and detailed documentation is extremely time intensive. If therefore two or more persons were detailed to that task that
would take their efforts away from other areas of which we benefit. As an example just recently GOOMBA released a wizard designed to help people designing, building
and programming their own pendant. Its a great piece of work and addresses many problems that users have had over some years about this matter. Were he to immerse
himself in the never ending documentation task then we might never have seen this wizard.

Second issue is that no-one likes slaving away at documentation......and documenting a complex piece of software can in no way be turned over to muppets, the best
documenters are exactly the same talented individuals whom develop Mach4 in the first place.

It seems that even with the best will and intentions Mach4's documentation still lags the leading edge. Mind you I hasten to point out the Mach3 documentation is an absolute dogs
breakfast...all over the place, incomplete and in some cases just plain wrong. So while I to lament from time to time that Mach's documentation always seems to lag I take solace
in that its SO much better than what we used to have.

Craig

104
Hi,
now the last thing is to set the Homing&SoftLimits tab of the Control plugin.

This is where some confusion may arise. Note down the lefthand column you see X,Y,Z,A etc....in fact the axis letters are a red herring, the real point is the numbers, 0,1,2,3 etc
corresponding to the motor numbers. Note the the Z axis Homes first followed by the Z axis, but motor1 and motor 3 Home simultaneously, and motor1 is the Y axis master and
motor3 is the Y axis slave. That they should Home together is 100% correct. But note that they are quasi independent, that is motor1 will Home to its moror1-Home switch
and motor3 will Home to its motor3_Home switch. If the switches are set square then the gantry will end up square also, even if it started a bit askew.

Craig

105
Hi,
now populate the Input Signals tab of the ESS plugin per the attached.

Note that I have not assigned any Limits yets....that will come later, and whats more it will be confusing because we are going to use
the same swtiches as Limits, or at least some of them.

Note how the ESS Homing tab has auto-populated, and note also the highlighted entries, they may become important later when you are trying to auto square
the gantry but the switches are not quite square.

Craig

106
Hi,
I remember how frustrating I found converting to Mach4 from Mach3 years ago. I'm surprised you did not hear me, I'm only 14000km's away and I was really
shouting loud! It took me a couple of weeks to get the basics in hand and another two before I was comfortable. Another month after that I was coding my own stuff,
but it did not happen immediately.

My guess is that you have been given advice by people whom are familiar with Mach3 but without realising that certain aspects of Mach4 are strikingly different.

This is one area where Mach3 and Mach4 differ, and if you apply your Mach3 thinking it will lead you well and truly astray.

On the Axis Mapping tab assign:
X axis =motor 0
Y axis master= motor1   slave= motor3
Z axis motor 2

Per the attached pic

Now assign the motor Step and Direction pins and My suggestion is set the Home pins as well.
Note the are four Home switches, one for each motor, so two Home switches for the Y axis and one each for the X and Z axes.
Note also that I applied 1000 units of noise filtering on the four home inputs....just as a precautionary matter.

Per the attached pic.

To be perfectly honest I would not bother with Limit switches as yet. You can double up a switch to be a Limit and a Home switch....but it adds complication
that you do not want yet. Once you get the machine Homing properly and you understand how and why it does so THEN start adding Limits. You will know then
if you make a Limit assignment that screws with your Homing you may have to reconsider how you are using Limits....but not yet.

Craig

107
Hi,

Quote
You seem however seem to ignore the answers because its 'not the way I did things in Mach3'....and guess what;
What the hell are you talking about??

Because you are trying to use an A axis as a slave to the Y axis....that is how it was done in Mach3 but it is not done that way in Mach4 and
will not work that way in Mach4.

Quote
I've seen you belittle others on this site as well and its pathetic.

If my posts have offended you or belittled you please accept my apologies....it is not my intention to do so.

If you wish to find more information about setting up the ESS for auto squaring then try Andy at the Warp9 forum. I don't recall seeing videos on
it but there is plenty of instructions about it.

Craig

108
Hi,
so you do not have an A axis??? Then why have you got an A axis defined in the Mach4 plugin?? That's a major source of your problem right there.
I don't care whether that whats you are familiar with in Mach3....this is Mach4 and its method of handling slaving different and is light years ahead.
Do yourself a favour and ditch all and every assignment you have made for a A axis, including the Step, Dir, Home and Limit pins.

Quote
Warp9 v283. I would not be apposed to upgrading if you thought I needed? This ESS is over 10yrs old now

The ESS is continually developed, so while the electronic part may remain the same, or nearly so, the firmware is constantly being improved, an is not
years old but days or weeks old at worst. Remember the ESS has an FPGA, which is if you like a software configurable 'computer'. If you find that your
currently defined 'computer' cannot do as you want it to, then use firmware to re-define the 'computer' to whatever suits your need.

Quote
Thats exactly what I was hoping for. Not sure why I am struggling with this so badly but I have changed every I would think was right and its not liking it.

The ESS has had this auto-squaring function for many years, you should take advantage of it. You will find out more about it if you go to the Warp9TD Forum.
Why this thread is on the Mach3 Discussion board beats me? You need and want information about Mach4....then why the Mach3 board?.  You need and want
information about the ESS auto-squaring function then ask in the appropriate forum.

There are several threads in the Mach4 Discussion board that deal with this subject and matters closely related to it in the last few weeks alone, but the real gen on how to set up
the ESS is the Warp9TD Forum.

Quote
This has to be a common function others are struggling with.

Yes there are others whom have stumbled over this but they ask the questions in the right places and then accept and implement the answers and the problem
is solved. You seem however seem to ignore the answers because its 'not the way I did things in Mach3'....and guess what; you'll never get it to work if you insist
of conflating Mach3 and Mach4.

Craig

109
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: computer suggestion for Mach 4?
« on: April 02, 2023, 08:26:53 PM »
Hi,
my machine runs on a dual core Atom single board mini-ITX PC with NO graphics card and only 3G RAM. In short and extremely low powered
PC, less than NFS recommend. Other than being slow to load a large file, say 5MB, and draw the initial toolpath its fine. I've been using it with Mach4
and an ESS for eight years. Its got a 64GB SSD and after eight years 52GB is still free.

The truth is that Mach is NOT a power hungry program, what Mach really requires is a PC with a minimal number of competing services or
software, we want the PC to concentrate on Mach not other stuff. There is inevitably 'other stuff' but try to minimise it.

I'd recommend one of the kids cast-off school laptops, clean all and every bit of software off it bar that that is required to run Mach. That usually includes
your CAD/CAM software, that is better off on your regular day-to-day PC while your machine PC  just controls the machine.

As it was explained to me years ago 'when you hook a PC to a machine it is no longer a PC (general purpose computing platform) but a machine
controller
that just happens to use Windows as an OS.' It should not be on the internet, and in fact even a network is frowned on.

Craig

110
Hi,
do you have an A axis?. If not then forget the A axis it has nothing to do with your machine. In Mach4 you operate on a motor,
say motor1 or motor4 or whatever. You can move any motor individually if required but ordinarily if motor1 is Master and motor4 is Slave then they
move together, after all that is what Master/Slave means.

What motion control are you using? The Ethernet SmoothStepper can automatically square a gantry to two squarely set Home switches.
You do have to set it up correctly but it is otherwise automatic. What it does in effect is Home the two motors simultaneously but independently
to their respective Home switches.

You can programmatically link and unlink motors which in turn allows you to write sophisticated squaring routines....but you should
not really have to do that. Take advantage of what the motion control manufacturer put into the controller for that purpose.

Craig

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