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Messages - rwf71

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51
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 14, 2013, 06:20:14 PM »
Thanks Hood,
    I haven't had a chance to look myself yet but I'm betting your right about no parameter, Probably right about blown as well. Do you reckon I blew it by checking/hooking relay between 26 and ground? Seems like we agree that 26 should be the alarm out I wanted to use so I'll get another axis done and hook 26 to 24v first next time and see what it does. If I'm understanding you correctly now, 26 is just a ground anyway so hooking ground to ground should not have caused any harm, if it is blown hopefully I didn't do it. ::)

    AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU for your time & patience,    Rick

52
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 14, 2013, 05:34:16 PM »
Well Hood,
    I have the relay and diode on a breadboard, was checking voltage with VOM #2 at the breadboard. Since my last post I took relay and diode out of system and used VOM #2 to check voltage at wires with nothing else in the system and at least the 21.5 vdc between 26 and ground is the same as it was in the first place with the other meter so at least I don't think I "hurt" or changed anything in the testing.
    So if relay is to be hooked between 26 and 24v, when I had it like that with the relay and diode in the system I only saw 1.2 volts or so rather drive alarmed or not, don't seem like that is gonna close a 24volt relay. :( I'm gonna take a look at the parameters too but like you I don't think the problem is very likely there, would be dumb to disable the alarm output IMHO.

               Rick

53
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 14, 2013, 05:05:21 PM »
Well I'm confused as hell now. :(
     I tried a relay between 26 and 24v, had VOM set for continuity on a set of the relay contacts, contacts never changed state weather drive alarmed or not. I did the same test with relay between 26 and ground, contacts never changed state. The VOM I was using has been known to screw up on continuity checks before so I got a different VOM, tried it both ways again, still no change in contact state. So then I use VOM #2 to check voltage, 26 to 24V =1.2 vdc, 26 to ground = 7.5 vdc, voltage never changed in either test weather drive was alarmed or not. At least with the first VOM I was seeing 20 something from 26 to ground. I'm really confused now, Don't understand why voltage is so different. I also don't understand what you said about not being able to check with a meter in the first place, if a meter can't see the 24V needed to turn relay on/off how can the relay possibly work? Please don't misunderstand me Hood, I'm not doubting you, I just really don't get it.

                Sorry, Rick

54
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 14, 2013, 03:10:26 PM »
Alright Hood,
    I have to get a flyback diode across the coil on one of the relays then I'll give it a try. Thank You AGAIN,

            Rick

55
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 14, 2013, 02:58:00 PM »
Thanks for the reply Hood,
    To answer your first question, No, I haven't tried a relay between pin 26 and ground. But after reading your post I tried checking between 26 & 24V and I get nothing, alarmed or not. The way I see it that's checking 24v against 24v which should read nothing because of no difference in voltage potential, but I could very well be wrong. Do you think a relay would act differently than what I see with VOM between 26 & ground?
     
Oh, BTW, could this be controlled by a parameter? Seems dumb to me to want to make alarm output ineffective but maybe a parameter could do that?
         Rick

56
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 14, 2013, 02:07:51 PM »
Well CRAP,
    Here I go having troubles again. While I wait for a proper board to build the error monitoring relay set-up I'm working on getting all 3 axis' wired to BOB and Scorpion output board, also adding a pair of wires at servo drive connector CN I/F which are to go to the relay board.
    I brought out a wire from pin 9, this is the one that has to be grounded for drive to accept pulse & sign input, when ungrounded it activates the drive "inhibit". This wire is to be ungrounded by the relay board at the same time as an E-stop in Mach 3 for the  "double safety" effect. That seems to be working as expected because I have the first (X) axis wired and even though the drive isn't alarmed it doesn't respond to jog commands with the wire from pin 9 ungrounded, but when it is grounded the servo motor jogs as it should, so far so good.
    I also brought out a wire from pin 26, the drive manual says this is the error/alarm output. The way I read the manual it says this output should be "hot" (Vcc) when drive is OK but transistor turns off when drive is in an error/alarm state. This is the output that is to be the "key" to the relay board, Vcc when drive is OK and 0V when drive is alarmed. Well, it's hot all the time no matter if drive is alarmed or not!  ??? I can check between ground and pin 26 when drive is OK and get 21.5 vdc, (still don't know why BOB is getting 24 vdc but puts out 21.5 vdc but so far it hasn't been a problem) but if I disconnect an encoder cable the drive alarms with error 22, (as it should) but the output from pin 26 is still 21.5 vdc !! The alarm out of the drive doesn't seem to be working as manual says. I've double checked to be sure my wire is on pin 26 (it is), if this alarm output doesn't change state I don't have anything to "operate" the safety relay board so no need to build one. >:( I really want Mach 3 to HALT when a drive is in an error state and I think this is a necessary thing but if the alarm output of drive doesn't work I don't know how else to pull it off. >:(
    Just in case any of you servo drive experts should ask this is how I have connector CN I/F wired ;
                          pin 5  to  S+  from Scorpion
                          "  " 6  to  S-   "                     "
                          "  " 7  to  D+ "                     "
                          "  " 8  to  D-  "                     "
                          "  " 9  to  safety relay board (ground to run, open to inhibit)
                          "  " 26  to safety relay board (should be hot with no drive alarms, 0V when alarmed)
                          "  " 11 to BOB 24V
                          "  " 3,12,28,29 & 30 + cable shield all tied to ground at BOB

    Just to sum up, the alarm output from pin 26 is NOT turning on & off depending on drive being alarmed or not. Is it possible the transistor in the drive is bad or do I have something wrong again?
                  Rick  

57
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 13, 2013, 06:09:33 PM »
Oh yea, forgot to say the board is a  TWIN INDUSTRIES model 8100-45.  Even on thier website it doesn't have a data sheet, it's just described as a proto board with through hole plating and one plane.
           
            Rick

58
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 13, 2013, 05:57:17 PM »
Hello Hood,
    I'll try to describe it because I don't think I'll get any better pics. The board "core" is yellowish FR4 fiberglass .064 thick. On what I'm calling the front,(because the manufacturer name & model number are on this side)the board is mostly yellow with a small ring (pad) of silver,tinned copper around the holes. The backside is All silver tinned copper but around the holes there is a circle of the yellow core showing which is the only thing creating separation between holes. Even though the holes are not all "shorted" together now, it looks like a if a guy got sloppy soldering and used too much solder it could bridge over that small separation ring and make all that tinned copper on the backside conductive to the sloppy bridged pad, do that TWICE and I think a guy would have a shorted mess.
    Does that help you see what I tried to show? I've googled this "one plane" thing a little and I think you could for instance bridge over the ground connection in one spot,(pad) and then any other componet that needs a ground could also be bridged over which would eliminate a lot of the  point to point wiring for ground. This would make the back a "ground plane. Same thing could be done with Vcc if you wanted the back to be a common buss. Not both on the same board but you can make this "plane" a buss of what ever you want as things are being built up. I think I'm understanding this correctly and the idea SOUNDS good but it looks to me like an amateur like myself could easily create an unintended bridge and end up with a shorted out mess. :o
    I hope this helps clear up what I tried to show in the pics.
                  Rick


59
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 13, 2013, 10:50:11 AM »
Making a little progress,
    I had the Scorpion hanging by the wires on the one drive I have jumpered to run just for a test and after Russ got me straightened out on the drive parameter I FINALLY got to see a servo motor properly jog in both directions. So now I'm working on getting all the drives jumpered and fed by the Scorpion so I can see all 3 working correctly, I hope. ::) Even my more permanent installation is still a temp mounted on the mock-up board, whenever I some day get a working system built I will still have to move everything one last time into a proper metal electrical cabinet. For now I have the Scorpion mounted and bout half hooked up.



    But now I'm shifting gears again because I received the parts I ordered for the "safety circuit" relay board.



    I'm way outta' my comfort zone here, The switch I ordered has .050 pins but the proto board has .037 holes. :-[ Can I get by with drilling the board to accept the switch pins? Also the board isn't quite what I expected, I think I ordered the wrong thing there as well, was expecting Both sides to look like this.



    But the board is described as "through hole plating with one plane", didn't notice that when I ordered but now that I have it I see the back side looks like this, I guess this must be the one plane?



    If I use this board,(I hope I can) should I insert the componets from the shiny, (one plane) side or the other way around? Any advice or suggestions you board building experts have for me would be VERY welcome.

                                  Thanks, Rick

60
General Mach Discussion / Re: Panasonic servo drive help
« on: April 11, 2013, 12:59:40 AM »
Well Hood,
    your spreadsheets look pretty pro compared to my hand scratched notebook, but I'm pretty good at keeping track of my notes and so far I've never had THAT notebook crash and loose my information. ::) But enough about that for now, I'm interested in hearing (seeing) more about these silicone enhancements Brett is obsessed with. You know what they say, once you've seen a couple, you pretty much want to see them all! ;D  
    I did take a quick look at the schematic software before work this morning, I've not used anything like that before. My learning curve allways seems pretty steep with software in general even with instructions that are supposed to be in English cause it never seems to be in the plain, common sense English a hillbilly easily understands. I also saw it's free public/GNU, which is something I really like but seems the author and main force in it's development officially announced he has no time for it anymore and dropped the project about a month ago, so probally not going to get instructions I can read well enough to not understand.
    I did take a short go at a Linux software package called "electric" awhile back for electric schematics but it seemed geared toward electronic schematics and not electrical drawings I'm more familiar with. I have an old pc running Unbuntu just for play/education, I like the idea of linux, free, GNU but I didn't find enough clear, organized info for a nongeek like me to get a good grip on it. ??? There's a ton of info but it's everywhere and I found much of it conflicting. No two "experts" seem to do things the same so a guy like me who don't know squat doesn't know who to believe?
    I have many reasons for building my diy cnc but one of the main ones is I want to learn CAD. At this time I know basically nothing so even if/when I have a working machine I have a big hill to climb there before I'll be able to actually MAKE something with it. Before I started this cnc adventure I questioned myself as to if I was taking to big a bite, sometimes I think maybe so, but I sure as hell ain't gonna learn no younger so with help like I've found on this forum I haven't had sense enough to give up yet. ;)

    Rick  

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