Messages

191

General Mach Discussion / Re: Is anyone using a VFD that is NOT "Chinese Huanyang VFD"

« on: October 07, 2013, 12:55:05 PM »

Well I'll tell you what BR549... disconnect the braking resistor pack and see what happens. Run the spindle motor to 24k RPM and push the drive stop button... If the drive doesn't trip on high DC bus voltage you have a $200 paper weight taking up space in your panel. Some people on this site have little or no electrical background and give out bad if not dangerous and costly advice.  

192

General Mach Discussion / Re: Is anyone using a VFD that is NOT "Chinese Huanyang VFD"

« on: October 07, 2013, 12:15:48 PM »

Braking resistors aren't required on a spindle motor unless there is a heavy inertia load on the motor. End mills or tool bits don't have the mass to do this. Motors act as generators when the rotor is being spun by an external source after the power is removed. All VFD's can absorb a fixed amount of this voltage. Braking resistors absorb motor's feed back voltage when it exceeds the drive's capability limit. Unless the drive deaccel  is set for 0.1 seconds a braking resistor is a waste of money, wiring and panel space. A 5 or 10 second deaccel rate will not trip the drive.

193

General Mach Discussion / Re: Huanyang VFD & Spindle Warranty Problems

« on: September 15, 2013, 09:48:01 AM »

Gene... sent you a PM.

194

General Mach Discussion / Re: Huanyang VFD & Spindle Warranty Problems

« on: September 15, 2013, 09:34:34 AM »

The green wire absorbs the RF from the 3-phase.

I can tell you don't have an electrical background. Better read your NEC code book on proper motor ground. This is absolutely incorrect it doesn't absorb RF... maybe some but its not significant to be of any use. That's what the cable outer jacketing shielding is for. The 4th conductor on a 3 phase motor is intended as a motor ground wire.

Using the cnc frame as a VFD motor ground is poor practice that can cause issues with low voltage electronics due to circulating currents.

Do a Google search on VFD, shielded cables, proper grounding and RF noise.

195

General Mach Discussion / Re: Huanyang VFD & Spindle Warranty Problems

« on: September 14, 2013, 07:31:34 PM »

Gene8522,

The green wire is important otherwise there would not be a 4th terminal on the spindle. 

Bob

When I got my spindle motor the 4 terminals were not labeled. I took an ohm meter and determined which 3 were the motor windings. In the process I discovered the 4th pin (assumed to be the motor ground) was not grounded.

I opened up the motor quick disconnect plug and sure enough... nothing connected to it. I soldered a wire onto the connector solder cup and grounded it to the motor case so now the motor has a dedicated ground conductor.  So even using 4 conductor motor cable the ground would have done nothing.

The Chinese must assume the CNC frame is going to be the motor ground which is poor ground practices.  All of you that use spindle motors should check the 4th pin... I would be willing to bet it's ungrounded. 

196

General Mach Discussion / Re: Huanyang VFD & Spindle Warranty Problems

« on: September 14, 2013, 09:48:47 AM »

The VFD output carrier frequency (PD041) is factory set for 7KHZ which turned the motor leads into a radio transmitter that can cause flaky problems with stepper electronics. The Some people have issues some don't. I don't recommend using unshielded motor leads. SJO 16/4 is not shielded. Use VFD 4 conductor shielded cable... ground the motor and drive with the green lead and the shielding at the drive only.

Make sure PD003 through PD 005 are set for 400 (hz)

197

General Mach Discussion / Re: Huanyang VFD & Spindle Warranty Problems

« on: September 12, 2013, 10:26:56 PM »

These drives are low end quality at best. A Siemens 440 or Toshiba G9, 2.2kw VFD sells for 3x the price... there is a reason for that.

My Huanyang drive was sent with setup instruction written is bad engilsh from the vendor. The instructions were wrong. If I had followed them I would have destroyed the drive and possibly the motor too. I suspect this maybe Gene8522's problem. I wrote to the vendor stating the setup instructions were wrong... never heard for them. 

The Huanyang manual wasn't much better but was able to determine the correct parameter settings only because I work on VFD and DC drives as a profession.   

198

General Mach Discussion / Re: Huanyang VFD & Spindle Warranty Problems

« on: September 12, 2013, 08:51:12 PM »

Gene8522 wouldn't be the first person to get stuck with Chinese junk. I consider any vendor warranty on Ebay as empty promises especially from China... buy at your own risk.

However... I don't think defective equipment has anything to do with his problem. It's highly unusual to have two motors and/or drives from two different vendors fail exactly the same way. Not to bash Gene8522 but this problem sounds more like a improper drive setup or wiring issue.

I found my drive set for factory defaulted values and must be configured for the drive input voltage, motor FLA, max rpm's and frequency, etc. A misconfigured drive can quickly short a motor winding. The manual that comes with the drive leaves allot to be desired for specifics.... unless you have a background in VFD's or the drive is sent with setup instructions its very easy to skip parameters.

Gene8522 didn't say if its a 2.2kw or 1.5kw. I have a Ebay 2.2kw water cooled motor and Huanyang drive with 450+ hours on the clock. Unless its running at high amps the motor just gets warm even without the cooling pump.

The 2.2kw drive can output 11 amps @ 400hz BUT the 2.2kw motor is rated for 8.5 FLA @ 400hz. The drive has to be set to current limit at 8.5 amps. The factory default is 11  amps. The 1.5kw motors is rated at 8 amps FLA and a 1.5kw drive will only output 7 amps so there is very little chance of an over current situation.

199

General Mach Discussion / Re: Huanyang VFD & Spindle Warranty Problems

« on: September 12, 2013, 10:46:01 AM »

You should use at least #14 shielded and only ground the shield at the VFD.  SJO is not designed for VFD use... Soigenneris sells shielded VFD cable its not cheap but nether is replacing two drives and motors.  VFD's create allot of RF noise especially the chinese knock-off's. They lack the internal RF filtering found in more expensive VFD's. Without the proper cable the t-leads become radio transmitters. Cable capacitance in VFD outputs is another problem... it can cause reflected power, more so on motor deaccel back to the drive and destroy the output section of the drive.

 

200

General Mach Discussion / Re: Huanyang VFD & Spindle Warranty Problems

« on: September 07, 2013, 09:29:04 AM »

Not trying to defend chinese products but you have two drives and motors that failed the same way. I have the same setup... 2.2kw water cooled and VFD and mine runs fine. I have a load reactor on the 3 phase output to the motor for impedance matching and to prevent voltage spiking due to motor cable capacitance. Spiking can break down the motor winding insulation and short out. I use shielded VFD drive cable and properly ground the shield and motor.... again using regular wire like SJO (extension cord cable) can result in motor winding damage. The drive has to setup to match the motor operating parameters or it can damage both motor and drive fairly quickly. Chinese products are low quality especially the VFD's... but having two fail the same way is suspicious.