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Messages - Tj256

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*****VIDEOS***** / MaxNC 15 Upgrades: Spindle Motor Replacement
« on: July 06, 2012, 09:49:11 AM »
The stock brushed 10,000 rpm Grainger motor on my MaxNC15 was insane. The brushes kept wearing out, flames occasionally shot out of the motor, and it was freaking loud. My solution was to replace the spindle motor with a servo drive from LeadShine. The video here shows my many upgrades, but focuses on the 400 watt servo motor spindle motor upgrade.

http://youtu.be/VYMddSNP058

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You were right! Not such a great idea. But once I made the coupling rigid, the backlash went completely away. The reason you don't want to do this is because the motor is slightly off axis and binds after rotating a small amount.

I'll have to figure out if I can get ahold of a coupling that flexes but doesn't compress, or maybe make the motor holes a bit bigger so it centers itself relative to the shaft it's driving.

The bigger question for me: Why the heck did MaxNC ship this thing to me in such a broken state? Surely they knew this would never work :(

Thanks again!

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By the way, I'm a big fan of your icon/avatar.

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Thanks! I did think that maybe the backlash was entirely caused by that silly coupling. I'm probably going to just goup up some epoxy in it tonight and see if making it ridged helps at all. The fact that when I grab the table and rotate it causes the shaft to move toward the motor and compress the coupling can't be helping at all.

I'll let you know if that does anything. "It can't get any worse" (tm)

:)

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Hey guys!

I finally set up my MaxNC 4th axis. I noticed it had a severe amount of backlash, and trying to apply manual pressure to rotate the table compresses the black motor coupling and moves the table 10 degrees! I did play around with Mach's backlash settings but it's so bad that I probably won't be able to fix this one in software.

Since MaxNC is kauput and I can't ask them, Does anyone recognise this table? I am trying to locate any instructions for adjusting it. Surely there's got to be a way to adjust this thing. It does have 2 set screws in it but they don't seem to do much but cause things to bind when tightened.

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I've found that ACPI can be left on-- For me it's usually the power management / CPU throttling settings that must be turned off. Under advanced power options, force the minimum / maximum processor state to 100%

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It seems that after searching through the intertubes, nobody seems to have posted any instructions for getting the most accuracy out of a MaxNC/MachIII setup. I'm talking about properly setting up backlash compensation and properly “aligning” the spindle on this machine (MaxNC15) so it is perfectly orthogonal to the X-Y table.  I guess I'm not surprised by the fact MaxNC has no such instructions, but surely others out there have run into accuracy issues over time. My journey began when I  crashed my Z axis, and suddenly woke up to the wonderful world of alignment issues.

In the end I went from roughly .01” of change for every inch of Z I plunged. Maybe this is acceptable to some, but for me it is NOT. I do crazy things like cut solder stencils with .005” apertures. I want the advertised accuracy out of my machine! After I did the calibration I'm about to describe, I can actually get the accuracy and repeatability claimed by the manufacturer of .00025"!!

First off, I wanted to get rid of backlash so this didn't mess me up through what I'm about to describe. MachIII has some nice dialogs for modifying these parameters, and unlike the naysaysers out there, I'll make the wild claim they actually work WELL. I take a value much higher than the actual expected backlash... say .01", plug that in, then go into JOG (tab) mode / 1% and hit left-right very briefly and alternately on that axis. I also use my favorite indicator setup so I can see how much the spindle has moved on the axis. If you have too much backlash configured, the needle jumps. I then lower the backlash value it until the needle doesn't move at all when you hit left/right. Repeat on the other axes and you've gotten some additional error fixed thanks to MachIII. Out of the box, my MaxNC15 had .003" of backlash on X and Y but now ZERO thanks to this feature. Note that I'm talking about pulsing left then right very briefly so the s/w only has enough time to take up the programmed backlash and nothing more. You'll see the steppers moving but the table won't.

The following are sources of error in the MaxNC mill as they relate to the tool:

1) Wobble from the tool (runout)
2) Misalignment between the tool's rotational axis and the axis of travel (Z).
3) Lack of orthogonality between the tool's rotational axis and the X-Y table.

You can't just lump these all together and fix them at once. EACH one must be accounted for seperately or you'll go mad (like me). I'll admit that I'm a n00b here, but what I'm about to describe worked for me. Maybe you have a simpler solution. If so, let me know!

n my machine, I noticed the issues when trying to use an edge finder to locate the center of bar stock. I would touch the edges on X divide by 2, set zero. Same for Y. Theoretically I now have zero. However I was always off. This drove me mad until I realized the three issues above. Esentially the edge finder was tilted relative to the table, finding the center at a skewed and incorrect location.

Here's how I addressed each issue:

1) Runout: Not much you can do about this. Make sure your collet is tight. I have the original TAIG style spindle with the ER adapter and runout is about 3 mills. I measure this by putting a longish 3/8” shank bit (has to be smooth!) in the collet and rotating it by hand.  I put a dial gauge anchored to the mill with its point on the bit, and rotated.  My machine has .003” - .002” runout/ depending on how well I did inserting the tool.

2) Misalignment of rotational axis vs Z movement axis: This can be measured on X and Y independently.  Using the dial gauge on an arm (affixed to either the table or the bench, doesn't matter) touch the front of the bit for Y changes, or the sides of the bit for X changes. When jogging the machine up and down, you'd ideally want to see ZERO change. Unfortunately you will see the #1 and #2 error sources, so you need to get rid of #1 (runout / tool not straight) and #2, actual misalignment. Rotate the tool and get the max or min deflection on the needle.  Then rotate 90 degrees. This will temporarily get rid of the #1 error for the measurement you're about to do. Why? Because the tip of the bit is basically offset (aka wobble/runout) and draws a circle as you rotate. 90 degrees from the max or min rotates that error so you don't see it. Then when you jog up or down you don't get the runout error since the runout is now pointing perpendicular to the measuring device. Now we can fix error source #2 without source #1 messing with us. So for #2, I found that this source of error was 0 in the Y direction most likely to the way the machine is constructed. X however had 5 mils per inch of delta. I fixed this by loosening the 4 screws  holding the spindle and applying some force as I re-tightened the screws. After doing this and re-measuring a few times, both X and Y were ZERO delta over a few inches. Perfect!

3) Lack of Z orthogonality: If all that weren't enough, I made the Z axis tilt relative to X and Y because I crashed once and popped the “Z fuse” so-to-speak.  Turns out since the Z axis sits on the Y axis FLAT, and because rotation of the Z axis along the long axis just adds a fixed offset, the only misalignment that matters is front-back movement. I fixed this by putting a dial gauge in an Indicol arm in the spindle and touching the side of a perfectly machined block on the table .  Make sure to touch the block pointing toward the back or the front of the machine so you get the tilt! Jogging up-down changed initially over .01” per inch. I loosened the screws and slightly moved the tilt of the Z axis slide (motor and all) forward or backward bit by bit while jogging up and down. Eventually I saw ZERO change. I tightened the screws down and retested. Perfect!

I hope this helps someone. I don't know why I can't find anyone else doing this with their MAXNC, nor do I understand why the instructions for aligning the machine weren't included. Maybe this is common knowledge?

I've attached an image of a solder stencil I cut.. the apertures are roughly .009" wide. All done on a maxNC15! The stencil was so accurate I was actually able to lay it over the circuit board, hear a click and it attached itself to the pads!

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Thanks everyone! I discovered that little hex nut under the head. After tightening with two wrenches instead of my hand holding the belt and a wrench, I can finally cut without random and unexpected Z excursions. Finally!

I also agree that running random speeds/feeds with zero experience with this machine (ie, I'd never know the warning signs that I'm running it wrong) is going to wreck something. 

I suppose what I should do is get a tachometer and set a calculated feed/speed, and use depth to control the load on the machine. I was hoping there was a way to watch the chips and listen for the machine getting bogged down and know to adjust things. Usually when I get into anything that involves math, the formulas get you started. I have no intuition on this stuff yet so I suppose using the formulas is the only way.

I was able to cut at 3 IPM and full RPM, .025" depth cut. From the sounds of things, I should be able to cut even faster/deeper in this 6061 aluminum. I'm using HSS though (not carbide) but I'm hearing IPM upwards of 14 from others.

I've got other accuracy issues with the machine, but at least this issue is more or less figured out.


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Wow, .01"! If that's what you guys have to do then no wonder I'm having trouble. I have literally seen my machine cut .2" when the bit slipped in once, and it wasn't having trouble in the least. I have encoders, so I am certain it was actually OK in X and Y. Now as far as whether this is good for the machine I am not sure. But cut at that depth it did. Mind you it was at .2"/min.

I'll try the 100 cuts per inch tonight. I am just amazed that you can't "bite" more than this each pass. I did upgrade to a beefy 1/2hp spindle motor and I have the more powerful steppers (and a nice 48v Gecokdrive). So the only worry would be that I'd wreck the aluminum machine with too much force by trying more depth.

I suppose that it really is an issue of "too much force" and the weak link is the collet.

One thing I've noticed about these cheaper mills (and the maxnc in particular) is the weakness of the collet system. I am starting to wonder if this was done on purpose and/or is a good thing that was done to keep you from destroying the machine. I was pondering on upgrading to an endmill holder but of course if the bit gets pushed beyond the limit, I really wonder if the bit will break first, or if it will be my machine! On a real machine the bit breaks, but on MaxNC machines, who knows.


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@tjstamp - Thanks! Yes now that you put it that way, perhaps an ER collett is a good thing. It prevents things from breaking when forces are running too high. I'll get a new endmill and do more passes and see where that gets me. Will let you know in a week when my parts get here :)

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