Messages

21

General Mach Discussion / Re: Mach3, Delta ASDA-B2, ESS. 12 straight hours working on this. could use assist..

« on: February 04, 2020, 08:08:25 PM »

Craig-

Thanks so much for diving into the details of the electronic gears and such. I will read this over about 10 times and hopefully will be able to make it 'click'

I am going downstairs to the shop to see if I can get the electronic gearing and line count set.



As far as getting the pulse stream sorted-

I would like to try and use the existing single ended output 5vdc+ from my C25 board.

You reference this here

"If you set the electronic gearing parameters such that you don't require excessively high signalling rate to the drive, say less than 200kHz, then you DON'T NEED
differential signalling, single ended will be fine. The drive is expecting 24V signalling. I have a transistor between my BoB and the Step and Direction inputs of the drive."

Several questions on this part.

1. What should I set my Mach3 Kernel Speed to? I have successfully used 25,000Hz and 45,000Hz. The PC running Mach3 is an older dell outputting through ethernet to the ESS.
2. In the ESS main config page of the plugin, I can set the ESS controller frequency. Suggestion for a frequency that is under the speed which will allow me to have correct pulsing output for the Delta Drive.
3. The Delta manual here- file:///C:/Users/Nate%20Foerg/Desktop/DELTA_IA-ASD_B2CURRENT.pdf on page 3-18, the figure gives a list of options for which pins on the DB44 connector should be wired up depending upon wether or not you want to hook it up to high or low speed pulses, open collector, etc. I gather that you are suggesting that I use the one called Position Pulse (Input) this is the only one that appears to support the 200KHz freq. Assuming I am correct on this being the correct option, I am unclear on how I should be using the pins here-

########################################
Position Pulse (Input)
PULSE /PULSE SIGN /SIGN PULL HI
43 41 39 37 35
Position pulse can be inputted by Line Driver (single phase max. frequency 500KHz) or open-collector (single phase max. frequency 200 KHz). Three kinds of command type can be selected via P1-00, CW pulse + CCW pulse, pulse + direction, A pulse + B pulse. When position pulse uses opencollector, the terminal should be connected to an external applied power in order to pull high.
Wiring Diagram C3/C4
####################################

Yesterday when testing, I had the pins set as follows-
From BOB, pin 2 (mach3 step pin) running to PULSE pin 43.
From BOB, pin 3 (mach3 Direction pin) running to SIGN pin 39.
From BOB Ground pin running to /PULSE pin 41.
From BOB Ground pin running to /SIGN pin 37.

With these connections I was able to 'slightly' move the motor with Mach3.

As I write this, I am Starting to have things fall slightly into view... looks like I should be using wiring diagram C3/4 on page 3-28 of the Delta manual.

If so, I was close on my wiring yesterday, but without having an external power source applied to "the terminal" (whatever that is. best guess is its pin 35) if that's the case, the diagram looks as if VDC- is applied to pin 35. Not clear on this 'pulling up' concept. I sort of get how it works, but at least in this application, I am unsure how to wire the external power supply. I assume it must be 5VDC+, and that if I used higher power, like the 24VDC the diagram calls for, I might damage the BOB or ESS, if what I believe is correct. All the resistors shown in diagram C3/4 appear to be internal to the Servo Drive. At least thats how I read it. However, I only vaguely read electronic schematics.

I don't get how I can wire the BOB pins 2 & 3 (5VDC+ when active) to Pins 39 & 43 on the Delta drive, as the BOB does not appear to have any -VDC available for pin 37 & 43. I suppose I could use Ground on the BOB as the -VDC. Possibly that's what should be done?

Would be curious to know how a transistor works in your application? I am thinking you have it amplify your 5VDC+ up to 24VDC+ for the Delta Drive to Accept as a digital input?

Again, updating this as I read more about things, I have found this link very informative pertaining to Open Collector. https://www.evilmadscientist.com/2012/basics-open-collector-outputs/

Ok, off to the shop for a few hrs.

Thanks so much for chiming in on these matters. I am most appreciative.

Nate.

22

General Mach Discussion / Mach3, Delta ASDA-B2, ESS. 12 straight hours working on this. could use assist..

« on: February 04, 2020, 12:28:21 PM »

Morning Gang!

First a little background-

I have been using Mach for about 10-11 years. Started with 2 and have been using 3 for as long as I can remember.

I have retrofit a Bridgeport series 1, a Tree 425 mill (4 axis) and a few routers for friends over the years.

At this time I am just wrapping up a Monarch 10ee lathe CNC conversion. I have an unmodified 10ee as well.

My CNC 10ee is from 1955, and was originally an "air tracer machine" so it was special enough to not be useful as a standard manual lathe anymore, and thus I did not have any qualms converting a 10ee.

The 10ee is set up as follows-
*7.5 baldor VFD and 7.5 Hp 1750 motor. Geared approximately 3:1, so the spindle runs about 1/3 of motor speed. Motor and spindle coupled with a large timing belt. No slip under heavy cuts, but noisy with this belt. Seems this motor has lots of torque. spindle tach never deviated more than 2 rpm when under cutting conditions. So far I am happy with 7.5hp.
*Orig spindle oiler setup destroyed, so I have installed a small pump for constant oiling.
*Steppers on X and Z, 890ozin motors, running G214r geckodrives
*Ethernet SS
*C25 BOB
*CXX spindle pulse board. one notch in wheel, approx 1/4 of disk perimeter. so far signal is very stable. as far as i can tell.
*limit and home switches.
*full compliment of contactors, relays etc for controlling accessories, drive power, SS power, Coolant etc.
*all power supplies 70VDC, 12VDC, 24VDC, etc are activated by relays and contactors such that they are all individually controllable and all items are fused.
*standard dell pc tower running mach3.
*20HP cnc capable Rotary convertor supplying 3 ph to the VFD drive.

So far I am very happy with the conversion, but I am only a few cuts into using it.

I did have a Hardinge CHNC I had converted years ago, but sold it to fund the 10ee conversion, so it is not my first rodeo with a mach3 controlled lathe.

So... on to my real issues, now that I have provided some background.

I have a delta ASDA-B2 drive with a matched 750W servo motor. Encoder believed to be 17bit, biut not enumerated on the motor so I really am not sure. I do not have the delta tuning software, acc keypad or connector cable to use the software tuning.

I have been able to apply 3ph to the delta drive and then also power the two seperate control circut power leads. Pulled from 3 ph.

Servo drive powers up with no faults, and after adjusting parameter 2-30 to 1, I am able to enter Jog mode and get full 3k rpm of servo when jog is commanded. CW and CCW both work.

Although I can get the Delta drive to operate correctly in Jog, running it with Mach3 is another thing.

I have been able to get the ASDA-B2 to respond (correctly) to step and direction (Sign and Pulse according to Delta manual) however, the motor (despite tuning everything I could find in drive and mach and SS configurations, to no avail. I am only able to get the motor running at about 4rpm. No matter what I do I cannot seem to get the servo to run at a reasonable (usable) speed.

I have been doing a lot of reading (spent 12hrs working on this yesterday) and as far as I can tell, Mach3 may not be sending the correct pulse train through the ESS, into the C10BOB and into the Delta Drive.

I did check to make sure that my BOB is outputting a full 5vdc+ to the delta drive. I understand that the Delta drive wants Differential signals for Sign and Pulse. Mach does not do this, and this may be my issue. I have ordered Differential Line Driver from CNC4PC, hopefully will have them by the end of the week.

Another possibility is that the electronic gearing in the ASDA-2B is set incorrectly. I have seen much referring to this here in this forum. I am having trouble with parameters 1-44, 1-45, and 146. I don't seem to be able to figure out how to enter the gearing ratio correctly. I suspect this is due to the fact that the parameters for gearing are able to be input as a large number, I cannot figure out where the real decimal point is in the setting, I fear that if I don't know which decimal is the right one, I have been entering erroneous numbers. I tried 0-ing out the value and they typing in a new one, but I just cant figure out where the number goes in relation to the (many) decimal places that the ASDA-B2 has in these parameters.

I gather that I should have 160,0000 pulses for my 1 full encoder rotation. I also gather that I should set 1-46 to 40,000 as this represents the "line count" I need for electronic gearing to work correctly. I am hazy on these matters.

It may all come down to needing better signal/conditioning of the pulses out of mach3, and having the pulses output in -5v/+5v differential via a Differential Line Driver. '

I plan to install the 750w servo on my 10ee as the Z axis. Mostly just to play with an AC servo/drive for a change. Very interesting stuff.

Notes:

A. the Delta manual is specific to later drives for my drive. I originally was using an incorrect version. the correct version uses a DB44 female connector for CNC1, and the old drive version used a different connector. Once I found the right manual, things made more sense.
B. you cannot alter some parameters unless you deactivate the drive by forcing "servo on" to "servo off" via perameter 2-30. Once disabled, all parameters can be adjusted. Note also that to have drive operate either in JOG or by Mach3, one HAS to activate parameter 2-30 by changing the value to 1 (on)
C. the manual is crazy long. 300 some pages. takes forever to scroll up and down to find information in section to section. very irritating, I would print it, but at 300+ pages, it will have to wait.

The Delta drive has many ways to interface inputs, open collector, single ended input/line driver, etc. I really could use a breakdown of how each works. I am not clear on if their is a way to cheat and run it without a differential signal? I did check to make sure I have a full +5vdc to the drive, but this is only half of a differential signal. I see that some people may have had success applying a single ended stream of pulses to the drive, but as of yet, I have not been able to make it work.

Their is discussion of using resistors and transistors to make the signal usable for the ADSA-B2, but I am really quite lost on this matter. Any insight would be welcome.

IF, anyone has a setup running mach3/ESS/C25BOB and a ASDA-B2 drive, I would be most interested in knowing what your settings in mach3 motor tuning/ports and pins/and ESS settings are. If I had these it could be a sort of baseline to start from.

ASDA-B2 manual is available here-

https://www.scribd.com/document/366289266/DELTA-IA-ASD-B2-UM-EN-20141217

Thanks to everyone to taking the time to read this.

Nate in Ann Arbor Michigan.

23

General Mach Discussion / Re: Mach3 & G203v W/microstepping how to have DRO'S read in .00002" increments?

« on: January 06, 2017, 10:38:21 AM »

Thanks tweakie!

24

General Mach Discussion / Re: Mach3 & G203v W/microstepping how to have DRO'S read in .00002" increments?

« on: January 05, 2017, 09:07:03 PM »

When you get the system setup for that kind of resolution,
I will be curious how you confirm that you can make accurate moves
at 0.000020" and what the deviation is over the total travel.

RICH

Available to me in my shop are mechanical indicators that resolve .00002". I also have electronic indicators with gauge amplifiers that can resolve down to .000001" (or so the readout says) I also have an extensive collection of optical & electronic, gauging equipment, surface plates, 4 Moore Universal Measuring Machines...blah, blah.

I guess what I am saying is, measuring movement and associated testing is not an issue for me. I have the tools. I'm not looking to create anything incredibly accurate, just a machine that moves in very small increments with decent repeatability and accuracy.

I dont intend to make the machine more accurate than it is. As it was built. I only want the ability to command mach3 to move in .00002" increments and display this movement in the DRO with an additional decimal place.

What those .00002" movements turn out to be in reality is a whole other matter.

25

General Mach Discussion / Re: Mach3 & G203v W/microstepping how to have DRO'S read in .00002" increments?

« on: January 05, 2017, 08:49:37 PM »

Peter-

Thanks so much for chiming in.

I may indeed be making assumptions that are incorrect...

A wee bit of background-

The machine is a Parker Majestic CNC ID grinder that I have converted to an OD/ID grinder.
The ballscrews are 10TPI. Original servos and drives removed.
Steppers are 900 Oz/in
steppers are geared down at the original ratio. X Axis 20 teeth on stepper and 50 teeth on ballscrew shaft. Z Axis 20 teeth on stepper and 30 teeth on ballscrew shaft.

Regardless of the intent of microstepping, as I understand it, 10x MS should fool the motor into thinking it has correct windings/magnets etc to have 2000 steps per rev. At 2000 steps per rev, the X axis motor would move .18 degrees per step. At a ratio of 2:5, the ballscrew is driven .072 degrees. 360 degrees of rotation at the ballscrew moves the X axis .100".  360/.072deg = 5000. .100"/5000=.00002"

If my math is correct (and frankly, its always been suspect) the X axis can be moved .00002" per step.

I get that the intent may be different than you think microstepping was designed for, but all I am doing is (effectively) "electronically" gearing down the motor.

"The result of this is that microsteps are not linear between full steps, so the accuracy is not there." I am not clear on this. did you mean the steps are not linear in that they are not accurate angular movements of the shaft when microstepped? or that the holding power is not linear as it pertains to the differing holding torques available to "real" steps and their associated detents vs. those available to artificial sub steps.

If the former, then yes. that would effect accuracy. If the latter, then (as long as the holding torque is not exceeded) the motor should hold at any one of 2000 positions, thus accuracy is not compromised.

All this assumes that the machine would not exhibit any stick slip, ballscrew inacuracy, backlash, way wear or inaccuracy, no belt stretch etc. I know how machines behave in the real world vs how they move on paper.

In actuality, for a grinding machine of this type and size, little load is put on either axis. Again, assuming that you are finishing and not hogging off stock (wrong machine for that anyway) and if it holds, position, its gonna get the job done.

"The accuracy of the machine should be the distance that an axis moves for a full step" Why? if I can make the motor turn in 2000 steps, with my gearing ratio, I will get a movement of .00002" correct? that is after all the goal.

"The purpose of the G901X microstepping multiplier board is to cater for computers or systems such as PLC or Arduinos that cannot generate a high enough step rate. So you should remove the step multiplier board from the G203V." Again, regardless of the designers intent, if 10x microstepping makes a move of .00002", their intent is irrelevant to me.

"The best way to get the accuracy you need is to mechanically gear down the axis with belts so that the accuracy of a fullstep position provides the accuracy you need." Not sure I follow. The "best" way is one that works, as I intend it to. If it involves a step pulse multiplier, so be it.

FYI, I am running an Ethernet SS and a 70VDC P.S.

your thoughts?

thanks,
Nate.

26

General Mach Discussion / Mach3 & G203v W/microstepping how to have DRO'S read in .00002" increments?

« on: January 05, 2017, 02:52:12 PM »

I have just added microsteping boards to my Gecko 203v's. Microstepping apears to be working fine, but I cannot get .00002" increment movements because I cannot get the mach3 dro's to read in higher res than .0001"

How can I modify the DRO's to read in .00001" or .00002" increments? .00002" is the smallest movement I can theoretically make with my ballscrew, timing pulley ratio and 10x microstepping.

Before you ask, yes, I do need to be able to move in .00002" increments. This is on a precision grinding machine (id/od) moving in .0001" increments does not give enough resolution in my movements.

I look forward to any assistance you can provide.

Thanks!.
Nate

27

Works in progress / Re: Three Page Lathe Screen

« on: August 21, 2016, 08:05:25 PM »

I hope someone who is running Phil's lathe screen set can help me.

I had a mach3 meltdown and need the image files that reside in the NewScreen folder that you create when you install Phil's lathe screen set. I think its called #22Lathe.lset

If someone could please go into their NewScreen folder and copy all the image files for me and email them to me I would be MOST GRATEFUL!

Hope you can help,
Nate

natefoerg@gmail.com

28

SmoothStepper USB / Re: Mach3 ver 3.043.046 cannot load USBSS plugin. Please Help.

« on: August 20, 2016, 03:10:29 PM »

I can post there, but it only has 27 topics and appears to be a very slow forum. hence my posting here.

I have been trying to get Mach3 running the 17fd plugin for almost 7 straight hours.

It appears that the download may be corrupted.

I have studied the [ages you provided for HOURS, and despite following instructions to the letter, I cannot get 17fd loaded. When I do get it loaded (as has happened once or twice) i cannot get my SS settings to last. I save, close and reopen, and get the same error page asking to set settings to default values. Mach will not keep the settings I enter. I have done this dozens of times today.

Can anyone Help?  Please!

29

SmoothStepper USB / Mach3 ver 3.043.046 cannot load USBSS plugin. Please Help.

« on: August 20, 2016, 01:33:46 PM »

No matter what I try, I cannot get Mach3 to see my USBSS plugins.

I know to reset device selection.

I cant seem to get the USBSS executable plugin (explosion icon)  to show up when I extract the zipped USBSS file. No matter which USBSS plugin version I try.

I can extract the file to the plugins directory, but then I don't get the executable M3P file that has the "explosion" for the icon. I just cant find that file so that I can click on it to install.

Why can I not see this M3P file when I extract?


I had to do a reinstall of everything, and although my lathe was working great with M3 Ver 3.043.046 and the V17FD plugin, not I cant get the plugin loaded again. When I look under plugin-control, I dont get ANY options of SS plugins.

I am in serious need of help, and I hope you have some thoughts to share.

30

General Mach Discussion / Mach3 lathe and Bobcad ver25, who has their BC25PP configrured cor for threading

« on: October 17, 2015, 06:20:19 PM »

Anyone here have their BC ver 25 PP configured correctly for threading in Mach3?

I would love to have a copy of your BC ver 25 PP if you have it working for outputting a G76 that works in mach 3 lathe.