Messages

11

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: April 04, 2013, 09:33:57 AM »

Rich,
I haven't contacted them but I did try using the standard turn screens because I had similar screens. However they produced the same problems - see the first video I uploaded to youtube...

Not sure what you mean by "changing between screens" -if you mean when running, I don't usually touch the UI whilst a program is running.

Msm and Mach are installed on he same drive, but this is their standard practise, I believe.
From their website:

Mach3 3.43.62 - This is the current CVI recommended Mach vrersion for MSM Turn and Mill-Turn use. It is also working well for Mill use, though it has less field test time than 3.43.37 at this point in time.
This is the version which CVI previously recommended for use with MachStdMill Turn and Mill-Turn. Earlier Mach releases between 3.43.38 and 3.43.62 each have a significant flaw wrt to some aspect of lathe operations.

Mach3 3.43.66 - This Mach release fixes a few more Mach lathe related bugs and is required for some lathe features that were introduced in MSM 2.0.4.2 beta. Without at least this Mach version, the new features (e.g. Front/rear tool post editing) will not appear in MSM (See the MSM releae notes for more information).
This is the version which CVI currently recommends for use with MachStdMill.

As I said, I did test with the standard screens but went back to MSM since I am used to them.


Meant to say I have tried 062, 066 and currently 067

Simon

12

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: April 04, 2013, 05:31:58 AM »

Art,
Thanks for getting involved.

I did as you suggested and set the debug flag:
3 files attached, the first one (run1) had one successful pass followed immediately by a failure. The second file (run2) had a number of successful runs followed by a failure at the very end. Gcode attached for reference.

Additional information summarised from the previous mails:
* the retract at G1 at the end of the thread run 'appears' to run much faster than programmed (difficult to tell over 2mm)
* the G0 rewind runs at 400 and not the maximum 500mm/min
* the G1 return X to the start position runs at an indicated 32-33mm/min rather than the variously programmed feed rates around 40mm/min
* in all cases when the run fails, there is a calculation for threading that appears to use a pitch of 40mm rather than the requested 1.5mm - which would require a very significantly faster feedrate.

Open to further requests for making tests.
Simon

13

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: April 03, 2013, 05:42:49 PM »

Hi,
Sorry for the delays but work and home life can get in the way of my hobbies!

• Hood, you are quite right, I tracked down which gcode program I used as a basis and it turned out to be the taper turning wizard - so that contains a G49 in the header - whatever it does. Sorry, but my slightly disjointed investigation leads to some blind alleys
• Alex, thanks for trying, I wonder whether the PP is part of the issue which I assume is not emulated in the Brain
• Hood, no I had forgotten about diameter mode testing - however I have just tried it and exactly the same problem happens

Is there any way that I can dump the output to a file rather than to the parallel port?
Is there any other form of diagnostics that I can run in parallel or run after the fail?

Any thoughts about the very slow activity seen towards the end of my second video?


Any other suggestions....

Simon

14

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: April 01, 2013, 05:19:43 PM »

Confirmed that including the S parameter to define the speed is not needed - I added  S230 to the M3 in the program and it failed first time!

I have also run the driver tests - and almost thought I had found the problem since the initial message as it started was 'pulsing too fast' ...however this almost instantly cleared and I had a stead almost completely clean line with an occasional short spike. The program f_inished successfully, so I ran it a second time to see if I could see anything on the data appearing on the screen that was of any significance - and couldn't see anything. The 2nd pass was fine too.

I looked closely at the gcode(which was edited from the original 'extended, verbose' G76 file) and remarked out a G49 that seems to have no meaning(odd....).

I then reran the video - well my iPhone - for another hopefully less crappy run. http://youtu.be/xcP9VJCs--M
This shows the standard fail again, on the MSM screens which I find easier to view and use.

It also shows another issue which I have only seen twice before I think. The usual problem happens but the Z continues to advance at a g l a c i a l pace - the feedrate shows flashes of 5-10mm/min (when it should be 350) and eventually reaches the end point after which, all of the other movements are at a similar pace - I timed one cycle and it took about 16 mins rather than the normal 16 or so seconds.
I checked the index and it is still there happily pulsing away!

This was the point I ran the driver test to see if there was some weird clock instability.

Brett, good to know that someone is looking at the issue, let me know if there is anything else that I can look at or test to help clarify - I think I am at the limit of checking my own systems though - and most of this system also drives my mill and has run multi thousand line programs lasting for up to around 2 hours without any problems (apart from operator induced ones!).

Simon

15

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: April 01, 2013, 01:50:39 PM »

No problems -this is the first time I have used the standard screens and had to hunt each item down as well, nothing was where I was expecting it to be!

16

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: April 01, 2013, 01:17:21 PM »

Guys,
Thanks for the observation but I do tell Mach that the spindle is running - in the short gcode program, there is a M3 almost at the start. I also force a M3 manually as well at times, in fact I think the G32 will not run at all if there is no M3.
However I agree that I have not instructed a speed but I understood that this was not necessary since Mach is only concerned with index pulses for threading and derives the spindle speed from that.

Nonetheless I will give it a try later on tonight.

Simon

17

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 and G32 threading issues - any thoughts?

« on: April 01, 2013, 09:29:45 AM »

Hunt,

Looked through the xml and I dont see any issues so not sure whats going on

"You are not the only one.....!" 

I tried with the standard screenset - have to say I found it really clunky but it did exactly the same thing.

I also tried with the on board PP just in case it was something to do with the 2 parallel port cards I have installed to operate the mill and lathe - same issue.

I then tried something that seems to help but does not cure the problem - I changed the setting for LookAhead from 20 down to 1 - this causes the errors in the feedrates to go away but the G32 problem still exists.

To recap, since I think there is a danger of my base problem being buried:
when I run a simple 'G32, retract, return Z, return X' code, on some occasions the script _initiates the G32 and then jumps through to the end of the return X, without moving the axes other than a microscopic amount. The DROs however move normally with Z moving from the start at 30 to between 27 and 25, X sometimes moves from the start 0 to 0.3 or so, but not on every occasion.

Points to note are that the G32, retract, return Z, return X are ALL apparently executed - as far as Mach 3 is concerned anyway. It seems to me that Mach suffers a problem with the G32 which causes it to leap through code until it hits a firm stop - an M1 in this case.

Furthermore (when LookAhead is set to 20), the feed rates for the G0 and G1 moves are not those that are set - G0 runs at 400 (I think) and the final G1 to return X to the start is defined at 40 ans actually runs at 33 mm/min. Change the lookahead parameter to 1 and this problem goes away - perhaps linked, perhaps not.

Searching through other threads including another recent one you had commented on, suggests the use of the LastErrors file - this (see my upload earlier) generally shows the threading calculation correctly as a 1.5mm pitch screw, needing 350 mm/min on Z. The failing runs show that the thread pitch to be 40mm, needing 11000 or so mm/min.
One other point is that I see a recent version of Mach (066 I think) has 'incorrect transfer of parameters for threading' as one of the bug fixes - is it possible that this bug is not acttually fixed?

So my own conclusion is that the problem is not a setup issue (as you say, the xml seems ok), but a bug buried in Mach. Maybe it is exacerbated by my setup but I am unable to understand how Mach thinks it has done 4 lines of code successfully when the DROs are not where the program says they should be and when 2 of those 4 lines take a visible finite time to execute.
It is as if Mach has upped the pulse rate to many times higher than it should be.....

So that you can see the problem, I shot this wobbly video on my phone - so sound/picture quality are not good) http://youtu.be/wMDoSYNnRcM but you get the general idea - the only fail that I shot was the first run though.

Almost final question - is there a diagnostic file I can look through to see what Mach *thinks* it has told the PP to do - and what frequency it did it at....or anything else I can look through to pin this problem down?

And finally, if this is a genuine bug, is there somewhere where I can report it as such??

18

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: March 31, 2013, 05:25:20 PM »

Hood,
Eventually made a new xml and I have just confirmed exactly the same issue with this version...

Thanks for looking,
Simon

19

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: March 27, 2013, 06:36:18 PM »

Also attaching my lasterrors and gcode files - I thought I had attached them before but... 

20

General Mach Discussion / Re: G76 threading issues - any thougts?

« on: March 27, 2013, 06:33:23 PM »

Yes, I will do that tomorrow. My first attempt tonight resulted in lots of problems so I will try with a clear head tomorrow.
Simon