Messages

461

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 16, 2012, 03:08:06 PM »

Steve,

"Articulated" and "4-bar" are actually different animals.  4-bar refers to a specific type of linkage . . . .

Articulated is just another way of saying 'jointed' so I would submit that a 4bar is a specific type of articulation . . although there are numerous types of 4 bar arrangements, so I would then use the term 'specific' only in a general way. How's that for an oxymoron?

  I created a very simple "network" protocol  . . . .

There is the answer. I have not the time nor talent to create a protocol, so I shall have to be satisfied to huddle with the rest of the masses.

Anyway, if you have questions or need help getting it going under Mach3, don't hesitate to ask.  And, of course, you're welcome to my code if you want it. 

Regards,
Ray L.

Much appreciated.

I'm looking to get rid of a USB smoothstepper and early reports on the new Ethernet version were all good, but now it is starting to look a bit like the earlier incarnation with problems going unfixed for extended periods. Kflop seems to be on top of things and responsive to questions.

On topic, of particular interest is the Kflop is extensible and may be a better portal for the ATC operational data than trying to communicate with MACH. I like the idea of having Kflop orchestrate separate CPUs which each have their own process to control. Kflops user code interface is where I would seek whatever advice you might be willing to provide, but the prerequisite of course is to have the Kflop.

To that end, initially all I really need to hear is (regarding the MACH plug-in) 'It works' or 'It works except for this bug, that anomaly, this workaround, etc' (in which case I would pass).

Your endorsement would be enough for me to acquire a Kflop and invest some time in it.

462

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 16, 2012, 02:34:44 PM »

Right now, it's running entirely on the KFlop, but I'll be moving it to an Arduino shortly. 

Ray L.

OK, then the  game is still on.

Contest rules say final form including control and all sensors. No tortoise in sight yet, but I have the scent.

Hey!  No changing the rules mid-game!  :-)  The dedicated controller was not part of the original design, and won't be completed for a while, as its part of a larger effort to completely re-build my E-Box, which will be timed by availability of a custom BOB being designed by a friend.

Regards,
Ray L.

Contest rules from October 14th:

Contest rules: everything does not have to be powder coated or otherwise 'spiffy',  but the automatic tool change has to be . . well . .  automatic,  and under its own power. No manual operation and no  . .  uh . .  temporary actuators . . . 

However, other  . .  'favored contestants' will be allowed to demonstrate the completed ATC on a totally non functional mock up of the milling machine head . . .  because there is no actual mill yet . .  and because he is making the rules. 

Contest winner is responsible for any and all federal, state and local taxes on prizes, which may include a case of the contestant's favorite beer  . .  and bragging rights.

Therefor I maintain that the game is still on. The A in ATC is for Automatic . . not Almost. Until one device is competed and functioning automatically in final form, no winner.

Besides, I don't want the contest to be over . . this is way too much fun. 

463

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 16, 2012, 06:31:52 AM »

Right now, it's running entirely on the KFlop, but I'll be moving it to an Arduino shortly. 

Ray L.

OK, then the  game is still on.

Contest rules say final form including control and all sensors. No tortoise in sight yet, but I have the scent.

464

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 16, 2012, 06:24:32 AM »

"DANGER Robin Hood DANGER"

(;-) TP

Looks like Will Robinson sold the robot. I would have kept the robot and sold Dr. Smith . . .

465

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 16, 2012, 06:12:20 AM »

I just measured the swing on mine.  Are you sitting down?  

213 degrees from carousel pickup to spindle. Carousel pickup to the arm 'parking pot' is another 37 degrees.

Total swing 250 degrees!    I doubt I could even articulate that much swing.

140 degrees would be no problem though, if you wanted to add that. Would be very simple and give you close to full power ate each end of the swing.  

What processor are you using to control the sequence and read sensors?   ( Speaking of processing, I have a lot of questions about your Kflop project. Is there a thread going on that?)

Steve,

Nope, you're not going to do 213 degrees without a 4-bar linkage.  I considered that approach, but it's too difficult to design to get the desired motion.

I'm using the term 'articulated' generically. We're likely talking about the same thing; common example would be this hoe bucket. Total sweep on the swing arm is actually 250 degrees. I'm not sure if that is doable even with such a linkage. Certainly 140 degrees would be no problem. Early on I had an articulated arm design, but at that point the rotation was something like 190 degrees. Later the sweep increased to 250 degrees total, but by then I had elected to go with a motor and transmission for other reasons, so I never looked into it.

Right now, it's running entirely on the KFlop, but I'll be moving it to an Arduino shortly.  Actually, I'm moving most of my external devices (coolant, PDB, ATC, pendant, control panel) to a network of Arduinos.  It will really cut down on I/O usage on the KFlop, and the amount of wiring in the whole systems.

I will use an Arduino also. I just got a shipment of them in for another project so I just 'threw another shrimp on the barbie'. I use the highest model which has three serial ports built in, and I use all of them. So far as I know, there is no arbitration built into the RS232 standard, so you will have your hands full using it in the way you intend . .  at least it seems that way to me. Why did you choose RS232 over USB or Ethernet?

Ask away on the KFlop.  No thread on that topic.  Wouldn't really belong here on the ArtSoft forum, given that I'm using my own home-grown CNC controller app, rather than Mach3.

Regards,
Ray L.

My questions would be limited (at this time) to using the Kflop with MACH as an alternative to the Smoothstepper using Kflops's MACH plug in. For beter or worse, I am pretty much married to MACH at this point.   If you have not used the Kflop in that manner, then I have no further questions, your honor.

466

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 16, 2012, 05:41:36 AM »

. . .  I just got the Chiron changer working from Mach a few days ago, still not ordered the controller yet, that will have to wait until the new year
Hood

It is working, but you don't have the controller yet? How does this happen?  What did I miss 

Mach is talking to my PLC
Got it fully working today, few days back I jumpered a wire to the Tool 9 coil so it will now raise and today I got the cylinder/prox's and arm fitted to Tool 10 and arm to tool 7. Only thing I have to do now is make up some doors for a couple of the holders, using tape on one at the moment
Heres a vid of all 12 tools being called, http://youtu.be/oJ8KAuzgSjE
Forgot to screw the damper on the cylinder of tool 10 so it comes down with a clunk but I think I might just manage to get my hand in to damp it, if not I will drop the cylinder and get it done as I dont like it hitting the end so fast.

Hood

Very     Now just add remote control and you can keep your tools anywhere . . . .

467

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 15, 2012, 10:55:40 AM »

. . .  I just got the Chiron changer working from Mach a few days ago, still not ordered the controller yet, that will have to wait until the new year
Hood

It is working, but you don't have the controller yet? How does this happen?  What did I miss 

468

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 15, 2012, 10:30:46 AM »

I just measured the swing on mine.  Are you sitting down? 

213 degrees from carousel pickup to spindle. Carousel pickup to the arm 'parking pot' is another 37 degrees.

Total swing 250 degrees!   I doubt I could even articulate that much swing.

140 degrees would be no problem though, if you wanted to add that. Would be very simple and give you close to full power ate each end of the swing. 

What processor are you using to control the sequence and read sensors?   ( Speaking of processing, I have a lot of questions about your Kflop project. Is there a thread going on that?)

469

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 15, 2012, 08:13:16 AM »

I could, of course, also go with a more complex linkage, but I really don't want to go there unless I have no choice. 

Oops! I was going to suggest you articulate as that is what I decided I would need to do when I was considering and actuator similar to what you have . . .  but  . . uh . . never mind.

Hey, is that friggin' thing done or WHAT??!!

My 60 day project is completed. I have another project that will be wrapped up in about a week and I have material on its way to finish my ATC.

Tick Tick Tick  . . do I smell Chili Beer?   

  I expect the bearings to arrive probably tomorrow,

Ray . .  you don't really think I'm falling for the old 'the bearing is in the mail' routine , do ya?

Seriosuly, what I saw from october looked very nice. I can hardly wait to find time to catch up on what you've acomplished. I'm very interested to see if and how you managed the actuation force at the ebds of the 140 degree sweep.

I really gotta fly now but I'll be participating here in the next few. 

Steve,

It was a matter to optimizing the geometry of the arm and air cylinder to the extent I could, using flow control valves on the air cylinder to keep it from moving at 100 MPH, and rubber bump stops at the end.  Very little force is required to engage with the tool in the spindle.  I may end up adding an air damper at the "parked" end to smooth out the stop, but it's working fine as it is.

Regards,
Ray L.

My first claw was a fail even though it worked, primarily because it did not have enough spring pressure to retain a heavy tool during extreme decel at the end of travel. Since I am using a servo motor to drive the arm, I will be side stepping all of the challenges of a pneumatic actuator . . albeit at a very high cost. 

I noodled over air driven arm for quite a while before abandoning that route. My design was articulated so there was no problem with the swing range or forces, but stopping the thing at exact point along the travel was something I was not able to work out to my satisfaction. 

You move the entire carousel, so you don't have an intermediate stop to deal with, but it looks like you did run into the end-of-travel issues that I was concerned with. Kudos to you for getting something working!

FWIW, one method that I considered was an air operated metal band positioner. I would have needed an encoder somewhere for the intermediate stop, but it would be a simple matter for put a caliper on the metal band for a positive stop anywhere in the travel. This might eliminate the throttling and damping needed in a free swinging arm. A rack and pinion arrangement is also doable, but enclosing it is a PIA and they don't like the taste of swarf.

Anyway, I'm going to catch up on this thread now and probably have a bunch more comments and questions.

470

General Mach Discussion / Re: BT30 spindle from scratch - with power drawbar and ATC of course

« on: December 13, 2012, 05:15:33 PM »

I could, of course, also go with a more complex linkage, but I really don't want to go there unless I have no choice. 

Oops! I was going to suggest you articulate as that is what I decided I would need to do when I was considering and actuator similar to what you have . . .  but  . . uh . . never mind.

Hey, is that friggin' thing done or WHAT??!!

My 60 day project is completed. I have another project that will be wrapped up in about a week and I have material on its way to finish my ATC.

Tick Tick Tick  . . do I smell Chili Beer?   

  I expect the bearings to arrive probably tomorrow,

Ray . .  you don't really think I'm falling for the old 'the bearing is in the mail' routine , do ya?

Seriosuly, what I saw from october looked very nice. I can hardly wait to find time to catch up on what you've acomplished. I'm very interested to see if and how you managed the actuation force at the ebds of the 140 degree sweep.

I really gotta fly now but I'll be participating here in the next few.