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Messages - RICH

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6421
General Mach Discussion / Re: Problems threading on the lathe
« on: March 17, 2009, 07:22:18 PM »
ART,
Is it Brians?

Here is the link to the thread i started.
Real pain in the neck, and if coupled with threading can be confusing.
Simply put, it is a shuttle accel value issue.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10855.0.html

RICH

6422
General Mach Discussion / Re: Problems threading on the lathe
« on: March 17, 2009, 03:50:40 PM »
Art,
Thanks for the prompt attention on the threading.  :)

A little off thread here, but since manny users use backlash compensation,
can you guys take a look at the backlash problem in Mach. Hopefully that will
be even easier.  ;)

RICH


6423
General Mach Discussion / Re: Problems threading on the lathe
« on: March 16, 2009, 09:54:03 PM »
HMM........Just a thought, but what did you guys change from when it worked?
Version 3.041?? or so ago??
RICH

6424
General Mach Discussion / Re: Problems threading on the lathe
« on: March 16, 2009, 09:21:54 PM »
YES, and the amount is aroound 50 to 60% .
RICH

6425
General Mach Discussion / Re: Problems threading on the lathe
« on: March 16, 2009, 07:48:18 PM »
Hi Art,
The gcode i used for testing was per reply #118 to this thread.

SMOOTHSTEPPER: MACH VER: 3.042.020
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The G32 code will give you the weird XZ move in both CV and exact stop when the spindle is slowed down.

PP TESTING: MACH VER: 3.042.018  & .020
------------------------------------------------------------------
The G32 code will give you the weird XZ move in both CV and exact stop when the spindle is slowed down.
A  50 to 60% reduction in RPM seems to trigger it.

NOTE: 1.The testing was done without BACKLASH COMPENSATION for the PP.
            Values for Shuttle acceleration other than "0" may create a problem in the axis travel from
            a weird slow down in travel over distance to an actual stop of the other axis. Shuttle causing values
            may vary depending on used computer and were posted in a different related posted.
            Those values are posted in another thread on the backlash problem.

           2. The weird pass also seems to accur in the G76 therading cycle about every four passes.

in light of all of this heree are some happy pics of a 0-80 threrad using the g32 CODE.

Rich

6426
General Mach Discussion / Re: Problems threading on the lathe
« on: March 14, 2009, 05:57:11 PM »
TrevorH,
You had asked the following question:

"Here is another related, but dangerously general question.  Just how much hp do I need to cut a 1/2-13 thread in 6061 at 400 rpm in lets say 20 passes or less?"

I looked at it out of curiosity a few different ways.
In one way i looked at the HP to shear the cut and had to make some engineering judgements.
Another way was based on SME research out of a 20 year old book i have. Yet another used more current
testing information. The last way was some computer programs which use info from form SME ( Society of Mechanical Engineers ) which is nothinig more than the material removal rate. I assumed a sharp v cut with 10 passes and a high shear stress value. Four or more ways .......all in the same ballpark.

HP required: 0.1 to 0.14

Now you need to find out your motor characteristics for the 1 hp motor you are using.
 
RICH



6427
General Mach Discussion / Re: BACKLASH PROBLEM MACHV3.042.020
« on: March 14, 2009, 02:21:16 PM »
Brett,
I use .005 as the value for my lathe and personaly never had a problem. It was probabaly back a year ago that ya'all mentioned that it affected the speed at which the backlash will be implemented.
This problem came to light when two frends were having problems with the their backlash and described the axis
movement ( of course i said, what?, no way) but once we got playing with the settings the problem surfaced
 then the nature of it was understood to some degree. So still curiuos i duplicated it today at home.

What can happen to the unknowing, is that if they use some random Shuttle Accel value, and gradualy work their way down to a faster speed, like 10 down to one and happen to hit a range of numbers that cause a problem,
then good grief, hours later they don't know what the heck is wrong. Just imagine coupling this with say the curent threading problem yet to be addressed and you would need to have a crystal ball to to even explain what  
what's happening.

I quess until it gets addressed, folks should just make note of what is posted here, and don't use a value like 5, .5,.6, or some range around those  and make sure that they are not skipping steps.

If your using the SS, since it dosen't have backlash implemented yet, all this would be transparent  
/ you wouldn't even be aware of the problem.

Good that your trying on the mill since maybe it's only a problem with MachTurn. Don't know.
RICH

6428
General Mach Discussion / Re: BACKLASH PROBLEM MACHV3.042.020
« on: March 14, 2009, 12:49:26 PM »
Well here is a liittle more Shuttle Value info:
                        MACH
Shuttle Value     Saved value    Jog Problem
------------------      ----------------    -----------------
.005                 .005              no
.05                   .05                no
.5                     .5                  yes
.6                     .6                  yes
.06                    .06                no
.7                      .7001            yes
.05                    .05                no
5                       5.0073          yes

Obviuosly it's number related and i always thought the number 13 was the unlucky one.  >:D

RICH
 

6429
General Mach Discussion / Re: BACKLASH PROBLEM MACHV3.042.020
« on: March 14, 2009, 12:20:32 PM »
Hey Brett,
See if you can duplicate as this is what seems to cause the problem.

Backlash values / %, motor tuning, CV or exact stop, etc, etc. dosen't seem to be changed or if you change them won't help the problem. Now i was able to duplicate the problem in ver .18 and also .20 as follows:

Simply:
Put in a backlash and enable it / save and do the normal out back in etc.
Just jog the axis's. All should work as expected.

Now for the Shuttle Accel do the following:
Change value to "5" , save the settings, even go out and back in, but just check and see what value it saved.
It saved mine as "5.0073", and if you now jog the axis's back and forth you get the weird movement.

Now change the value to 4, and try, then 3, then 2, then 1  as all are saved for those values but the problem persists. Finaly change the value to "0" and  the problem goes away .

Now change the value back to "5" and see if again you get a value of "5.0037".
Problem comes back.

RICH



6430
General Mach Discussion / Re: BACKLASH PROBLEM MACHV3.042.020
« on: March 14, 2009, 11:21:38 AM »
Thanks Brett,
Got my other pc hooked up here, so will be using the PP and will try to see if i can duplicate it at my place.
Will first try R.018 since it's still loaded on this PC and never had a problem wiith it. Then go to .020, it could be any number of things.  Even a corrupted
XML or installation. I will fool on my end and also go back over the guys house maybe tomorrow.
I'll repost if i can duplicate it here. 
Save ya some time for now.
RICH
 

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