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Messages - RICH

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5751
Show"N"Tell ( What you have made with your CNC machine.) / Re: Tool setter
« on: September 15, 2009, 09:33:13 AM »
Hey RC,
Why not anodize the stuff yourself. I don't know how big or quantity your talking but the investments is like nothing. Battery charger, some distilled water, a bucket or two, and a solution of battery acid, dye from the food store. I just let my friend do it for me. That's much easier!  ;)
RICH

5752
Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: CNC CONVERSION - 6" ATLAS LATHE
« on: September 15, 2009, 08:22:25 AM »
Daniel,
The screw is like 0.004" out over 5 feet. It's small but when mounted such that it's made parallel to the lathe bed you sometimes see it since that tolerance can be in the short section used. There is some radial loading no matter what you do and you want to minimise it. The bearing support plates are made such that they can be adjusted for parallelism between the bearing supports. I fooled for some time with the mill as the ball screw was locked in, you find the spot that just works, but need to play around some to make it just so. Using the torque measurements is a great help as it shows you that what you have done is improving the mounting.
RICH
 

5753
Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: CNC CONVERSION - 6" ATLAS LATHE
« on: September 14, 2009, 04:37:30 PM »
Daniel,
Thanks.
Still a ways to go, guards, covers, re-machining the slide for whatever will be attached to it, box for the two encoders, etc.
Movement always seems to light up the fire in oneself.  :D
I forgot why folks go out and buy one!  ;)
RICH

5754
Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: CNC CONVERSION - 6" ATLAS LATHE
« on: September 14, 2009, 04:30:31 PM »
Z AXIS ADJUSTMENTS – BACKLASH  REMOVAL –BEARING PRELOAD

The Z axis components were adjusted by feel. The axis was turned using a makeshift handle attached to the screw. Now  we get into testing for refining of  the axis components. This may get a little long, but a lot of how to and description is included which may be of value to someone.

The Z axis calculated steps per unit and a basic velocity of 40 was used as rough motor tuning units in Mach. I just needed something so I could jog around using the controller. What I wanted to see is if the carriage is trying to lift or bind in any way. The Z axis ballscrew is not a precision ground screw such that the overall straightness meets a tolerance, but, that tolerance is not like a ground screw. The screw is anchored at the spindle end and the bearing at the tail end allows axial float ( just used for radial loading ) Slowly moving the carriage a slight adjustment of the ballscrew nut to saddle had to made. This was repeated until no movement ( of the carriage off the ways was happening – initially it was around .002” ).

Then the velocity was increased until it skipped at 120 IPM. The velocity was reduced and set at 80 IPM and no skipping happened. ( Just for info the X will do 200 IPM and is set at 100 and it only took 11 oz in to just move the axis ( 31 in oz with a new / different stepper installed ). The difference is the internal pole attract / detent. So we have an initial velocity that works, but, it is governed by how well things are aligned and associated torque required.

I will elaborate more in the refinement comments.

BACKLASH CHECK and REMOVAL
The steps per unit were confirmed. Now backlash was checked by moving one direction and then the other at different distances. The backlash was 0.012”…..

The bearing at the spindle end provides axial anchoring so any play between the outer rings must be removed. The ball nut is adjustable so that is another backlash point. Belt, motor quality, pulleys can play into this but the main two were noted first.

The bearings in the anchor end were re-shimmed. The bearings sit in a housing and the outer rings of he bearings are fixed by compressing them together via the mounting plate and the bearing housing. The inner ring of the bearings receives a preload by tightening a bolt into the screw.

Another back lash check was done, didn’t touch the rough ball nut adjustment, backlash now reduced to 0.008” and I know that the outer bearing rings are making contact. I then tighten the screw which adds the preload on the inner bearing rings. Another backlash check is made and it improves, but the steppers are skipping which indicates the bearing preload is too much. So I reduce it, the steppers don’t skip, and backlash is now at .004”.

Now the ball screw nut is progressively tightened until back lash comes down to around 0.001” and the motors are not skipping. Remember the carriage movement check done in the beginning. When all this stuff is tight there is not much give and alignment is very important. Not bad for a rough testing.

You will never have “0” backlash ( the X axis has 0.0003”) . Remember that lubrication needs to be between the moving components. So absolute “0” backlash is rather difficult to achieve if not impossible.
You can however do your best at each component of the axis train to eliminate it.

There is another part to these adjustments, since as you increase the loading on the bearings and ball screw nut, the torque required to move everything also can increase. So you need to play some to find a good combination.

TURNING TORQUE
Torque will be measured using the gauge shown in one of my other posts.
The torque to rotate the axis was measured and it took 80 in oz ( that’s a lot ). The belt was removed and the motor static detent torque was measured at 20 in oz. Can’t do anything about the motor so your left with 60 in oz. to try to reduce. A stated before the X axis has 21 in oz and one less bearing when measured.
The belt is replaced so I can jog the axis.
The ball nut preload was reduced / played with such that the backlash didn’t change. Then I further played with the anchor assembly preload again not causing an increase in backlash. That done the belt was removed and the torque measured. It’s now 35 in oz to just start to move the carriage. So the torque was refined rather easily and reduced almost in half. ( 60 down to 35 in oz). I would guess that at most the best I can reduce it is around 10 in oz.

The ball screw is not perfectly straight so when it turns you are putting a radial load into the bearings. I believe I can reduce required torque by adjusting the bearing mounted at the tail end of the lathe. That requires shimming the mounting plate and just takes some time fooling with it.

But for now, I know that I can almost eliminate  the backlash  (0.001” current on the Z ). Everything needs to be removed, but I just needed to confirm that all is within what I would like to accomplish before continuing on.

You say what’s the big thing about the torque readings?
Well if you can minimize the required torque for the axis without undue strain on the components keeping backlash within a desired tolerance, then you have a refined machine which will improve velocity and acceleration.

I will note that if you go back to the speeds, feeds, and torque that I was after, they have already been exceeded.
LIFE IS GOOD!

RICH

5755
Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: CNC CONVERSION - 6" ATLAS LATHE
« on: September 14, 2009, 02:36:56 PM »
A long way to go but the hard stuff is somewhat out of the way.
It's starting to look like a CNC's lathe.
The next psoting will have some interesting info you may want to review for undestanding.

RICH

5756
Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) / Re: CNC CONVERSION - 6" ATLAS LATHE
« on: September 14, 2009, 02:33:54 PM »
Time to get back to working on the Z axis. Here are some picks.

5757
General Mach Discussion / Re: Gcode/post processor help G77
« on: September 14, 2009, 01:16:40 PM »
Phil,
Don't know what to tell you as i have never fooled with doing or modifying any post processor. I would think that
OneCNC should provide you one which is done for Mach Mill and Lathe.

Just one of those things you learn from experience, in that, the CAM program may not be worth much if you can't process the information properly for the recieving program. Some CAM programs charge you for one.
Try a post processor for a Fanuc lathe as that may do the trick.

I don't use OneCNC and haven't even looked at their info on the program, but, CAM programs sites usualy tell the PP's they have or give you specifics on the programing for changes. If they advertised that it posts to Mach then you have ever right to expect something from them IMHO.
Sorry can't be of more help.
RICH

5758
General Mach Discussion / Re: Gcode/post processor help G77
« on: September 13, 2009, 10:44:18 PM »
I don't think Mach supports a G77 and the post processor from OneCnc shouldn't post that code if it a post processor for MACH.
RICH

5759
General Mach Discussion / Re: Different Cuts
« on: September 13, 2009, 10:39:27 PM »
Nicolas,
If you do your drawing such that each machinng task  you want to do is on a seperate layer, then on import those layers  ( also the layer name ) will be maintained. You can unenable a layer in LC by unchecking the box in the Layer Menu. If the layer is not enabled then any maching parameters for it will not be included in the posted code. 

So, you can post to Mach a machining operation, go back to LC, turn off and turn on some layers and repost to MAch
if you wanted to work in that fashion. All in the LC manual.
RICH

5760
General Mach Discussion / Re: How do I ??
« on: September 13, 2009, 10:24:22 PM »
Criag,
A friend put together a PC and he had trouble just like you. It turned out that it was the video card that was the problem. I am not saying that it is your card, but, if you can sustitute a different one just as a check, you would know that is not the culprit.
RICH

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