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Messages - Chaoticone

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341
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Is Mach4 really Hobby Material?
« on: January 18, 2018, 03:10:21 PM »
Quote
Not sure if this was aimed at me, but I didn't blame anybody

Nope, not aimed at you or anyone else in particular. The same thing I have told my sons when they do something and in hind sight realize they could have done things differently and saved some time, money, effort, etc. They are usually mad at their self. But no reason to be mad at their self or anyone else. They didn't know what they didn't know and no one who knew it had any idea they didn't know or needed to know. Bottom line is everyone is responsible for knowing what it is they need to know to do what they want. If they want it bad enough, they will learn everything they have to to get to where they want to be. It's just life.

342
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Is Mach4 really Hobby Material?
« on: January 18, 2018, 12:14:15 PM »
I'm not aware of any changes between version 1 and 2 that would break others screens or profiles. The default screens and profiles were drastically improved though.

I think the problem was when some modified the default screens or profiles for their own use. Why they would do that, I have no idea. Anyway, when they updated the defaults were updated. It wasn't that the update broke anything of theirs it just updated the defaults. If the defaults were what they chose to use for their own then yeah, they would be overwritten. The fix is to use loader to copy a default profile and create a custom profile and configure that custom profile for your use. But that is covered in the manual so I'm sure no one reading this did not already know that.

When customizing, always start by copying and saving the closest matching default as something custom. This applies to everything you customize in Mach. This is also more often than not a good computing practice. If this bit you I'm sorry to hear that. But remember, it is a lesson you learned that is advancing you in your hobby. Also be careful who you blame for what you didn't know.

Another good practice when customizing is to use Mach4s constants (listed in the API doc). These are there to facilitate updates to the core and not break custom scripts (provided they are written correctly of course). But if folks doing customizing don't use them, updates to the core may break their scripts. But the tools are there to prevent this. I have been bit by this more than once myself (old habits die hard). I just had to ask myself...... "do I get mad at myself for not using the tool or do I get mad at the guys fixing bugs, adding features, adding tools etc.?".

There is yet another step you can take to protect your customization even more if you want to. Put your custom scripts in a custom lua module. The tool is there.

Now the question is, do these things (and lots of things not listed here) make Mach4 less hobby friendly or more? I say more but some also make it more different (if taken advantage of). But, the ones that make it more different (better IMO) don't have to be used. The ones that don't make it better are pretty much the exact same. Pretty much everything I compare from Mach3 to Mach4 ends with this same conclusion.

343
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Is Mach4 really Hobby Material?
« on: January 17, 2018, 11:04:58 PM »
Lol, the crazy train left the station a long time ago........

I agree it needs to be as smooth as possible. But again, that is very dependent on several factors. NFS can't carry the weight of all of it. There is a very big difference in something not working, and not working as expected too. A lot of times i see issues with the expectation. Not all the time but lots of times it doesn't work as expected but works exactly as it was meant to and is verified by the docs.

Docs will always lag behind. no way around it but needs to be minimized as much as possible.

Quote
Various forum contributors
have made available solutions to many of the simplest Mach4 shortcomings

Where at? If someone wants to make a list and get it to me, I'll have a look. Can't make any promises but will look and go from there.

344
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Is Mach4 really Hobby Material?
« on: January 17, 2018, 09:52:00 PM »
And yes, I agree with Russ. The most basic stuff should (and to my knowledge will be) shored up. But I will also say.......
Quote
expected to respond as expected
is relative. Depends a lot on where the expectations come from.

345
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Is Mach4 really Hobby Material?
« on: January 17, 2018, 09:42:05 PM »
I think the first thing to do is define Hobby. I will define them as

Group 1: Enjoys building the machines.
Group 2: Only interest in building a machine is that their other hobby (or business) requires a CNC and they assume that building a machine is cheaper than buying one.

Group 1 will choose Mach4 over Mach3 hands down I think. They will research, read manuals, etc.

Group 2 will be upset if they have to take the time to learn anything. After all, this is taking time form their true hobby.

Folks are passionate about their hobbies. Its only the stuff they consider work they want to skip through........ so they can get back to their hobby. How many times have you seen folks ask questions that are covered in the manuals, posted in the forum, covered in videos, etc.? I'm not talking about different questions either. I'm talking about the same question answered in all of those places and then some. If group 2 were considered hobbyist then HotRod, Fast Ford, Golf Digest and a plethora of other magazines would have gone out of business years ago. After all they earn a living selling publications related to hobbies. Mach provides some pretty decent manuals for free but many can't be bothered reading a manual, watching a video or reading a post pertaining to their hobby. Nope, it just doesn't add up. On what planet is it ok to ask others to put more effort into their hobby than than they themselves will.

I'm firmly in group 1. I love making machines run good, faster, more efficient, more intuitive, nicer interfaces, etc. That's what drives me. I have zero interest in running them after that though. And I remember very well what brought me to Mach. I was doing CNC maintenance for years. I asked reps. of various controller manufacturers every so often how much the controls would cost to build or retrofit a machine for myself. Back then the answer was a pretty consistent $10,000 an axis. Well, that was well beyond my reach. Then a friend told me about Mach3 and I have been hooked since. It didn't cost me $30,000 but I have been learning for almost 15 years. And if I used any thing other than what I know already, that would be another learning curve. And Mach3 to Mach4 is the same. Its different than 3 but leaps and bounds better IMO.

If your in group 2 I will say that you can Do It Yourself and potentially save a lot of money. This is exactly what Hobby is for. But it will cost in time (and that is true for Mach3, Mach4, or any other). You must realize that Mach is software. It is not smart enough to change the way it works to suite you. You will have to be smart enough to change the way you work to suit it (again, true for any controller until we have AI). However, if you find yourself in a position that you just cant change the way your doing something more often than not Mach can be taught (through customization) to do it your way. Mach4s capacity to meet these situations are vastly improved over Mach3s. But customization requires more effort, time and/or money depending on how you go about it. You have to weigh it all out. I encourage people to build their own system myself but it isn't for everyone.

The best I can tell, most newcomers like Mach4 much better than Mach3.

346
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Lua Fails Me
« on: January 14, 2018, 06:45:11 PM »
Did you also delete the lua.mcc file? Anytime you update marcos I would close Mach, delete all .mcc and .bak files in the macros directory. Relaunch Mach and test.

347
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Mach4 Lathe will not run
« on: January 14, 2018, 12:21:05 PM »
The canned cycle stuff in lathe has a lot of images. I'm guessing the PC is not up to the task. Might want to try industrial. I don't think the default in it includes the canned cycle stuff.

348
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Z 0 help
« on: January 14, 2018, 12:17:00 PM »
Anything that is using 5V should be shielded IMO. But then again, 5V should never leave the cabinet IMO eiher so.....

349
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Setting Motor Counts Per Unit in macro
« on: January 14, 2018, 12:15:03 PM »
Standard convention dictates that A,B and C are rotational axis. No need to have a check box to tell you that. If there was a check box, one option or the other would break standard convention. Mach 3 did not have true slaves or out of band axis.

350
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: Z 0 help
« on: January 13, 2018, 11:06:56 AM »
Tweakie explains it well here.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16323.msg110342.html#msg110342

Tweakie also has an awesome post in open builds where he talks about wiring strategy and using capacitors to help mitigate noise.

https://openbuilds.com/threads/electronics-101.693/

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