Messages

1

SmoothStepper USB / Re: Breakout board choices with smooth stepper

« on: September 17, 2019, 04:56:43 PM »

Thanks Tweakie,

Warp9 have kindly replied and said exactly the same thing. As a new user I'm learning all the time especially on the hardware side.

Hi Mark,

My advice would be to totally ignore the cheap Chinese motion controllers - they have issues and no customer support (plenty tales of woe posted here on the forum).

There are a number of good quality American or EU manufactured motion controllers that do provide good customer support and that is the way to go.

I have a number of different machines and applications so I currently use 5 different motion controller - they each have their own merits.

The Warp9 ESS has plenty of documentation and excellent customer support. You may like to check out their recommendations for breakout boards https://www.warp9td.com/index.php/bob-vendors
or their forum
https://www.warp9td.com/index.php/kunena/recent

Tweakie.

2

General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)

« on: September 17, 2019, 08:23:19 AM »

Hi Craig

I checked with the supplier of my new motors and they have just stated the maximum rpm is 300, this leaves me way short of target velocity. Does this sound correct to you that a Nema 34 stepper is maximum 300 rpm?

Or am I getting confused as using microstepping changes the rpm effectively allowing the motors to spin faster. I've attached the 400 pulse revs as per their torque graph and one at 8 stepping.?

"Hello

The RPM is 200~300 rpm/min

How many 34HS9456 do you willing to buy?

What king of machine do you use?
------------------

Yolanda

Sales Manager

ChangZhou Longs Motor Co.,Ltd

Skype:yolanda-momo1"


"Hello
 maximum RPM  is 300
How many 34HS9456 do you willing to buy?

------------------
Yolanda

Sales Manager

ChangZhou Longs Motor Co.,Ltd

Skype:yolanda-momo1"

3

SmoothStepper USB / Breakout board choices with smooth stepper

« on: September 16, 2019, 05:34:27 AM »

Hi
I'm fairly new to the hardware side of Hobby CNC work, although I’ve been programming in industry for over 10 years on 3/4/5 axis large woodworking routers.

The machine I've bought has a cheap chinese break out board with very few inputs outputs. Here is the spec,


Approximately 1mtr x 1mtr cutting area with 150mm Z clearence, 3 Axis
2.2kw Chinese water cooled spindle
4PC Nema34 Stepper Motor 965oz.in 5.6A bipolar Model 86BYGH 7.7N.M113mm 4wires 34HS9456 Step Angle 1.8, Rate Voltage 5.6, Rate Current 2.13A, Phase resistance 0.35,Phase Inductance 4.1mH
4 x Stepper motor drivers DM860A, PEAK 7.8A , Set to 3.0 RMS Peak 4.2A and 2000 microstep resolution
4x Power Supply  350W-60VDC
Cheap chinese HY-JK02-M 5-axis interface board. ( I'm not enthused with the board now I understand a little bit more about them and at £10 cost it seems penny pinching to run an expensive machine with one)
16mm dia 16mm pitch 4 start thread lead screws on all axis
Kernal speed at 25000 Hz



I’m looking at your Ess smoother stepper as I wish to use a newer PC with windows 10 which I prefer and already have a spare of and have heard very good things about using one.

With regards to a bob, I want a decent one with plenty of connections for inputs and outputs. I want to control spindle on/off and also the RPM, The usual E stop, ideally pump on/off , a probe, limit and homing switches as well as all the axis XYZA. Feed speed control via remote hand controller.

I like the idea of going to mach4 too....

I have my  my eye on a few here but I presume the USB type will now work with the your ESS smooth stepper if it requires parallel port connection to a bob?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-axis-mach4-board-interface-usb-cnc-motion-control-card-2000khz/303252148651?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-200-KHz-4-Axis-USB-Mach3-Motion-Control-Card-Breakout-Interface-Board/123698623045?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Also looked at these,

Spec here
http://www.spark-concepts.com/cnc-xpro-controller-v3/

Now updated with this one, again doesn't mention MAch3/4

http://www.spark-concepts.com/cnc-xpro-v4-controller/



I also want a hand controller that I can control feed and spindle speed with a rotary dial/knob. I think this one will cover that.

https://www.makers-hut.com/product/mach3-4-axis-wireless-electronic-handwheel-manual-controller-mpg-usb-handle/


Any help and advice you can offer with regards to a good set up of smooth stepper and control board based on what I have and wish to upgrade will be very much appreciated,


Mark

4

General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)

« on: September 16, 2019, 04:13:44 AM »

Sounds like I'm on the right track for further upgrades then,

The Ess smoother stepper form warp 9. A newer PC with windows 10 which I prefer and already have a spare of.

With regards to a bob, I want a decent one with plenty of connections for inputs and outputs. I want to control spindle on/off and also the RPM, The usual E stop, ideally pump on/off , a probe, limit and homing switches as well as all the axis XYZA. Feed speed control via remote hand controller.

I like the idea of going to mach4 too....

Got my eys on a few here but I presume the USB type will now work with the ESS smooth stepper if it requires parallel port connection to a bob?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-axis-mach4-board-interface-usb-cnc-motion-control-card-2000khz/303252148651?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-200-KHz-4-Axis-USB-Mach3-Motion-Control-Card-Breakout-Interface-Board/123698623045?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

What about this one, it doen't mention mach 3/4 compatible though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spark-Concepts-CNC-XPro-V3-Control-Board-Good-condition/303286057224?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Spec here
http://www.spark-concepts.com/cnc-xpro-controller-v3/

Now updated with this one, again doesn't mention MAch3/4

http://www.spark-concepts.com/cnc-xpro-v4-controller/





I also want a hand controller that I can control feed and spindle speed with a rotary dial/knob. I think this one will cover that.

https://www.makers-hut.com/product/mach3-4-axis-wireless-electronic-handwheel-manual-controller-mpg-usb-handle/

5

General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)

« on: September 15, 2019, 03:57:07 PM »

That sounds like it's going to work well, are you looking for another 2 it sounds like you only have one at the moment?

I picked up a bargain today, a 27" touch screen monitor and large gas strut monitor and laptop arm. It's bigger than I need but for £30 it was a bargain I couldn't resist.

I'm researching into making a vacuum table now without having to buy and run a large noisy industrial type pump.

Do you know much about smooth stepper boards, I would like to get a better quality break out board and smoother stepper like the Warp9 ess one. With this i presume I can use a more modern computer with windows 10 and use the Ethernet port and drop the parallel port?
I'm presuming the pc connects to the smooth stepper with the Ethernet cable then the smooth stepper to the break out board with a parallel cable?

Hi,
I have taken delivery of the Delta 400W B2 series servo and drive. Its fantastic.

I was of the opinion that I would have to use a gear reduction (3:1 to 5:1) to match my existing steppers and integrated low lash
planetary 10:1 drives. The manufacturers spec on the Vexta stepper and gearbox is 705 oz.in. That results in over
1400kg (force) of stall thrust, really rather more than my machine could hope to contain. I was of the opinion that
if I had a servo/gear reduction that could deliver half, say 350 oz.in, that would be still every bit good enough for my mill.

The manufacturers spec on the 400W servo, without gear reduction is 1.27Nm (cont) or about 166 oz.in Now that I have the servo
in hand I'm thinking that I may try direct coupling it. That would save the cost of a low lash planetary gearbox which would
be advantageous. What I have discovered is that while the continuous rating is 1.27Nm the overload rating makes it behave
as if its considerably more torquey than its spec.

When you load a stepper to near its max spec it starts losing steps when it does not stall completely. A servo on the other hand
just 'digs' in and produces the torque demanded until it current overloads or faults following error. In short the overload
capacity really allows for a servo to 'punch well above its weight'.

I have to shift house over the next two weeks and so will have to put this on hold for a while....but I am extremely impressed
with this servo and drive. I want one more for the X axis, and another but with a electromagnetic brake for the Z axis.

Craig

6

General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)

« on: September 11, 2019, 05:41:38 AM »

 

looking forward to seeing the difference, keep in touch re how you get on with your servo's please.

Hi,
the graphs are representative only, that they will exactly describe every motor is fallacious.

Also note that the 33% retained torque at 1000 rpm was measured with a driving voltage of 60V, the result
might be closer to 50% if you used 80V.

These motors are still many fold better than what you had. Try them out.

Craig

7

General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)

« on: September 11, 2019, 05:23:25 AM »

There not quite as we presumed then given that graph if only 33% at 1000 rpm


"The low inductance steppers are
such that you will retain approx. 50% of holding torque at 1125 rpm so the available torque from the stepper
at 1125 rpm we estimate to be 0.5x7.5=3.75Nm. "

8

General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)

« on: September 11, 2019, 05:16:26 AM »

Hi
Thanks, I'm slowly picking it up

These motors are rated at 7.5nm holding torque in the spec (see attached) so I'm now confused why the graph shows only 5.5nm at zero  now.

Mark

9

General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)

« on: September 11, 2019, 04:17:44 AM »

Hi,

I've got this torque curve for my new motors but don't understand it, sorry not very good with graphs and I'm just trying to learn more about the mechanics of my components.

Torque is the motor torque in Nm.
Pulse rate?
400 pulse rev?

The leadshine graphs you popped up had Rpm on the bottom line hence my confusion. How do i convert the pulse rate shown here to Rpm

Mark

10

General Mach Discussion / Re: Motor tuning, please take it easy on me I'm new to this :)

« on: September 10, 2019, 06:55:21 PM »

I understand the test, would you just manual jog (at full velocity) one axis at a time back and forth between the limits or create a program to interpolate both axis running together for X and Y? What sort of velocity increments 500 ok? and fine tune from there. Maybe 100 increments for acceleration?

"The procedure goes, set the max velocity in Machs motor tuning to be a very low value, say the equivalent of only
100 stepper rpm and then increase the acceleration in steps until you find a maximum where either the steppers stall
or the machine starts flexing alarmingly or the machine starts bouncing all around the workshop. Then back
of 25% from that maximum. Now start increasing the max velocity until the same conditions indicate a practical maximum
and then back off 25%."