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Messages - ptegler

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1
General Mach Discussion / Very odd Homing event after rotary axis install
« on: October 12, 2014, 12:09:41 AM »
After installing a rotary axis on my CNC router table I ran into a BIG problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KklafqyZpSY

I swapped out the A axis (slaved on the gantry for the Y axis) and configuring the B axis as the slave to the Y motor.
After going through the motor tuning to reconfigure the motors and set up the A axis as a rotary and matching the B motor settings to the Y axis motor settings (replacing the A as slave)  allowed me to get the A axis up and running just fine as the rotary axis.

I added an optical reflector coupler as the homing switch for the rotary axis. Works great! Painted a pulley flat black then just scratched the paint off for a shiny marker for the opto switch.

 :o NOW HERE's  THE ODD issue.  :o

After pressing the REF ALL HOME button on the main screen the Z axis homed then backed off the switch as expected.
Then the Y axis (with it's newly configured B motor as a slave) home properly.
Then the X axis homed properly, then the rotary axis rotated back towards zero and then backed off a couple degrees as expected.

BUT  and a BIG BUT.... the B motor then attempted to home by itself ...
Luckily the motors are all spring loaded against the rack and pinion drives. The B motor commenced over powering the spring (which is pretty friggin' tight)  and banging the heck out of the gantry as the gear slipped past the rack teeth trying to rack the gantry as the Y motor was not being driven.

So homing and moving the Y axis (moving the gantry down table and back jogging without issue... B as the slaved motor)
BUT the REF ALL HOME tried to home just the B axis after properly working as the slave on the Y !!!!

OK...so what did I miss not setting up correctly??? Macro under the REF ALL HOME button? some other config screen?

I've attached my  ROUTER111.XML file if some can spot something/figure out what's amiss I'd REALLY appreciated it.
Everything else seems to work as expected.

ptegler

2
both on moves of 1" and moves of 40" as tests moves....was referencing pulses per unit accuracies as well as repeatability of returning to zero.

long and short moves used to set/validate move accuracies and backlash calipers, rulers, lasers used... straight line moves on a single axis are dead on accurate (better than less than .0006") repeatability 

will go back and look at that code...was quite awhile ago  (Jan/Feb 2014 build date)  the G1 g2/3 makes sense

will minimize accell and run my circle test again.

I just spent the last two hours milling parts to minimize all free play in gear trains, bearing spacings, etc etc
will let you know how it goes.

thanks all.

ptegler

3

...sorry for the double post....

My backlash for 1" moves of 40" moves is within 0.0002" repeatability on x and Y axiz
(on a 28" x 48" working area)  slaved 900oz/in motors on the Y axis single on the X axis.
But whether it's a 1" diameter circle or a 8" circle... they are all out of round by 0.030"
What I think is over tightening the bearings/slides/screws/R&P parts....then a retest.... it's always 0.028-0.030" out of round on the same axis, (11 o'clock down 5 o'clock is narrower by 0.030)   regardless of climbing or normal routing directions.

This was tested with several circles inside each other, each running in the opposite directions.
ALL are out of round. so I even rotated the MDF test board just to validate it was not material stress related.
There is no (zero) racking (twin 900 oz/in motors) which might have made sense if backlash on one side were greater than the other
(trapazoidal resultant motion or reversal along the X axis is  the Y axis racked)

hhhmmmm... should my dual motor Y axis acceleration setting be twice the single motor X axis?
or perhaps half the X axis to compensate for power to weight of the gantry vs just the head on the X....
(or am I over thinking all this)

Now I know I read somewhere on these forums there is a difference possibly in absolute stop vs continuous speed....circle interp etc
An example visible to anyone is while making my dust shoe, one circle seemed to start and stop a lot, while others were a continuous motion/sound
This is visible at  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr6VAfZCQlo
at the 1:54 mark you can here it starting and stopping cutting hard i nthe material, yet later circles are smooth and conitnuous.
I did not do anything different.... straight conversion from VCarve Pro to g-code, yet this one circle cut with the start/stop sound.

The MDF circle tests done a couple months ago now still bugs me as I've not been able to formulate any real logistics to hunt down, other than settings for the way MACH3 should/can be config'ed to cut circles.

for reference...the whole machine...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KklafqyZpSY&list=UUNTCxkF_0pxnMa-g9HTVgxA

Any clues here as to where I should start testing to re-config this machine for clean round circles?

tia

ptegler

4
PoKeys / Re: Adventures in Pokeys
« on: July 13, 2013, 03:21:32 PM »
Hi, guys

If you need any urgent help, contact us at support@poscope.com or matevz@poscope.com, if you want to contact me directly.

Regarding your problems. Please download the attached plugin and test it. Before that, make sure that you are running the latest development version of PoKeys firmware and software.

Regards,
Matevž


ok...new dll in place...fired up the pokeys app....updated the firmware (failed first time..worked fine the second attempt..could easily have been a network  connection issue)

My encoder (on pins 3 &4 ) is mapped only in the beta pokeys plugin and works fine. I have a push knob encoder, which the switch is mapped through pin 10 as the reset and it works now as well and does not take over control as before (although I have not yet tested any gcode... just switches and knobs etc)
I have the pokeys keyboard active as well and it works just fine for these FRO and reset functions.

BUT I have now noticed a few oddities and am writing here , treating this as beta feedback for you guys.    :-)
I an under the impression these are background issues in the plugin code rather than the xml/saveable config.

1- Upon MACH3 startup.... the kbd48CNC now always defaults to axis C enabled.  Is there any way to pre-set which axis it comes up on?
    (I tried playing with the plugin config but don't see anything there.)

2- I have a couple push buttons (actually joystick switches) for jogging,  attached as digital inputs to the 56u
     Even though the 'C' axis is active (on the kbd48CNC) I can still jog correctly as the the joysticks are mapped to button pushes.  BUT.... INC jogs are at TWICE the distance set  (IE 0.100 will move 0.200)  After touching an axis select button on the kbd48CNC (x,y or z), the first move will be the proper distance, but there after are twice the set distance.  I've manually entered other valuse to increment, just to manually verify it was not kbd48CNC or other related issues.

3- toggling the 'jog mode' use to cycle through all three modes/selections  IE: CONT-INC-MPG modes , now it does not. It only switches between CONT and INC  I have to hit the kbd48CNC  'MPG'  button to get it over to the MPG jog.

4-I  have the 56U pin 9 mapped as a Mach3 "SHIFT KEY" to enable FAST JOG function on a button near my joysticks which works just fine ....
so too does the right most kbd48CNC keyboard  '~ ' key to enable/toggle  FAST JOG mode   The SHIFT key will light up the Mach3 screen LED properly as long as the key is held down.  The kbd48CNC '~ ' toggle the mode, but does not light the screen LED    The kbd48CNC '~' KEY is a toggle rather than a momentary like the SHIFT KEY,  but the kbd48CNC '~' does not light the Mach3 screen Fast JOG LED at all.

Thanks for the encoder fix.... this was my biggie.  The rest right now are just annoyances, I'll have to try and remember (save the INC jog at double the distance.
...was thinking that was a key bounce issue... but is not as the + / - keys on the kbd48CNC do the same (double distance)


   






OZZEII... you need to run the pokeys app outside Mach3.  BUT FIRST
just copy the dll int othe pokeys plugin directory.

On the 56U web page (http://www.poscope.com/pokeys56u) select the manuals/downloads and DNLthe lastest plugin
[Development Version] PoKeys software v3.0.57 + PoBlocks beta 1.1.0.10 + Mach3 plugin (5.7.2013) Size: (25.13 MB)

run the app and it will install everything needed... I just caledl the new one pokeysbeta so it saved the old directories and files by writing the new stuff to a new dir.

run the pokeys app first.... it might error out but just restart it. You can the update the firmware. Mine took two tries but worked correctly (I think for me a it was a network timeout the first time)

...see my last post back for the pokey guys

5
PoKeys / Re: Adventures in Pokeys
« on: July 13, 2013, 03:14:07 PM »
Hi, guys

If you need any urgent help, contact us at support@poscope.com or matevz@poscope.com, if you want to contact me directly.

Regarding your problems. Please download the attached plugin and test it. Before that, make sure that you are running the latest development version of PoKeys firmware and software.

Regards,
Matevž


ok...new dll in place...fired up the pokeys app....updated the firmware (failed first time..worked fine the second attempt..could easily have been a network  connection issue)

My encoder (on pins 3 &4 ) is mapped only in the beta pokeys plugin and works fine. I have a push knob encoder, which the switch is mapped through pin 10 as the reset and it works now as well and does not take over control as before (although I have not yet tested any gcode... just switches and knobs etc)
I have the pokeys keyboard active as well and it works just fine for these FRO and reset functions.

BUT I have now noticed a few oddities and am writing here , treating this as beta feedback for you guys.    :-)
I an under the impression these are background issues in the plugin code rather than the xml/saveable config.

1- Upon MACH3 startup.... the kbd48CNC now always defaults to axis C enabled.  Is there any way to pre-set which axis it comes up on?
    (I tried playing with the plugin config but don't see anything there.)

2- I have a couple push buttons (actually joystick switches) for jogging,  attached as digital inputs to the 56u
     Even though the 'C' axis is active (on the kbd48CNC) I can still jog correctly as the the joysticks are mapped to button pushes.  BUT.... INC jogs are at TWICE the distance set  (IE 0.100 will move 0.200)  After touching an axis select button on the kbd48CNC (x,y or z), the first move will be the proper distance, but there after are twice the set distance.  I've manually entered other valuse to increment, just to manually verify it was not kbd48CNC or other related issues.

3- toggling the 'jog mode' use to cycle through all three modes/selections  IE: CONT-INC-MPG modes , now it does not. It only switches between CONT and INC  I have to hit the kbd48CNC  'MPG'  button to get it over to the MPG jog.

4-I  have the 56U pin 9 mapped as a Mach3 "SHIFT KEY" to enable FAST JOG function on a button near my joysticks which works just fine ....
so too does the right most kbd48CNC keyboard  '~ ' key to enable/toggle  FAST JOG mode   The SHIFT key will light up the Mach3 screen LED properly as long as the key is held down.  The kbd48CNC '~ ' toggle the mode, but does not light the screen LED    The kbd48CNC '~' KEY is a toggle rather than a momentary like the SHIFT KEY,  but the kbd48CNC '~' does not light the Mach3 screen Fast JOG LED at all.

Thanks for the encoder fix.... this was my biggie.  The rest right now are just annoyances, I'll have to try and remember (save the INC jog at double the distance.
...was thinking that was a key bounce issue... but is not as the + / - keys on the kbd48CNC do the same (double distance)


   





6
PoKeys / Re: Adventures in Pokeys
« on: July 13, 2013, 03:00:37 AM »
OzzieII.....  yep...wired it via the schematic with the part...was the way I started... throughout this thread I ripped out the extra and re-wired with just the three pin layout (GND and two inputs) no real change.
pokeys app sees the signals... just overrides whenever mapped .

7
PoKeys / Re: pokeys 56u analog FeedRate Override issues
« on: July 12, 2013, 08:26:27 PM »
Any new info on the plugin that addresses encoders, reset and etc using the pokeys ...supposed new plugin work from back in April?
I've tried all forms of mapping an encoder to the 821 DRO in MACH3, but the pokeys takes over, interfering with the MACH2 software.
I even tried un-mapping the pokeys keyboard to no avail.
Another large thread on this issue is at   http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,24809.0.html
some say it works but I do not believe they have full control or have tested all aspects yet.
An encoder (or mpg) directly mapped works, but takes over and interferes with Mach 3 standard actions.
...bummed and waiting here      :-)

8
PoKeys / Re: Adventures in Pokeys
« on: July 12, 2013, 07:19:11 PM »
nope.
I went all the way back to the most basic screen set, still no dice.
I even unmapped the Pokeys keyboard, still to no avail.
Anytime I map an MPG or encoder directly to ANY DRO, the mapping takes precedence, and interferes with the gcode control.

ptegler

9
PoKeys / Re: Adventures in Pokeys
« on: June 27, 2013, 05:39:25 PM »
....Just like the diagram in the docs. ??

ok... the following is  the ebay special I bought after giving up on the downfalls of using a potentiometer
The WTE version



BUT...I wired it up just like the 'test circuit' on the above linked data sheet so it operates just like and MPG. One V+, one ground, and two (A/B) output pins.
(even tested it as my main MPG, which worked fine)

Are you saying you simply wired it up as 'two switches to ground'  one pin to ground and the other two as individual inputs... hence you  Input Input#1 statements before
(were both set to input #1 or one to #1 and one to #2) ???

10
PoKeys / Re: Adventures in Pokeys
« on: June 27, 2013, 06:24:46 AM »
not a potentometer...

I spend last evening even disconnecting the pokeys keyboard from the 66U...still no dice. The encoder(s) will take control of the DRO and not let the normal screen controls change them.  Turned on/off Input#1, #2,#3, #4 no differences.  T ook my main MPG that does work properly, and tried changing it to 821... same situation.
So I swapped back to the 1024 screen set as my blue steel set has a touchscreen and jogit pendant added in.... same issues. Whenever an encoder is mapped to the FRO override % DRO (821) or any of the FR related dros, the normal controls including reset do not work.

I also tested this entire sequence on the slow jog dro and the spindle speed dro.  Same thing happens.
The pokeys keyboard controls do not even continue to control the dro when an encoder vie the pokeys board is mapped to the fro.


I guess it's back to waiting to pokeys to finish this in the plugin as in the other thread   :-(

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