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Messages - joeaverage

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1
General Mach Discussion / Re: Annoying issue with my cnc router
« on: June 29, 2022, 11:48:04 PM »
Hi,
rather than just scatter gun new parts here and there you might try some things to narrow the field down.

For instance disconnect the VFD from Mach altogether and use a 9V battery to apply an analog voltage that would ordinarily be supplied by Mach and your BoB.
That would at least confirm if the VFD and/or motor are OK.

Craig

2
Hi,
sorry, forgot to mention the good ones:

I use an Ethernet SmoothStepper ($190) by Warp9 TD in the US. Others are:
UC300,and UC400 (about $150) by CNCDrive in Hungary
57CNC (about $150)by PoKeys in the UK (I think?)
CSMIO (about 600Euro) by CSLabs in Poland
HICON (starts at $600) by Vital Sytems in the US.

All of these devices have complete and well sorted plugins for Mach3, and all have a Mach4 plugin but in some cases a less complete set of realtime supports. All, should have g31....that's one of the most basic.
Of them the Ethernet SmoothStepper and the HICON have the most complete Mach4 plugin, with both companies committed to supporting Mach4.
The UCnnn products are made by CNCDrive, and they have their own software, UCCNC, and good it is too, but naturally they support their own software before investing too much effort in supporting the competitors (NFS)
software.

Craig

3
Hi,
the reason that I am dubious about the controller is that g31 is and has to be a realtime procedure.

When a probe event occurs the motion controller must immediately decelerate the moving axis. This immediacy, measured in a few tens of micro seconds is required to avoid over travel.
The controller must have that feature built, or programmed in, in order that it can happen almost automatically.

It is not sufficient for the controller to report back to Mach, it would take some tens of milliseconds to do so, then Mach would calculate the deceleration trajectory
and communicate that to the controller whereon it will go into the motion buffer, commonly several hundred milliseconds in duration. The delays are such that overtravel would
be excessive.....and that it what you describe.

I would concur that XHC has been in the market long enough that I would have expected it to support g31, even if development has ceased this realtime support should have been
part of the controller function for many years now. Your description of what is happening rather suggests the the controller does not have that critical realtime support.

Craig


4
Hi,
the only person who responds to any enquiry about XHC products is a guy Alex Hee, and he only replies sometimes. Further he does not answer any detailed technical questions
and I would guess he can't. Have a close look at the 'new' products, are the genuinely new or are they rehashed old products?

The only new product that I'm aware of is a supposed Mach4 ready controller, and it's absolute s*********t, it does not support Mach4s GUI, just wxMach, what a joke. XHC have no interest in
fixing it, and I don't know how many people who've bought only to have to throw them out as junk. Seems to have tailed off recently, as most people do enough research to understand they are being ripped.

Craig

5
Hi,
I use Autoleveller, a software utility that probes the surface of a nominally flat printed circuit board blank. Then it manipulates the Gcode file to accommodate the inevitable wave and/or warp
of the blank. As such probing has to work well and accurately, say within a few um otherwise it does not work.

Initially I used Mach3 and a parallel port, and Autoleveller worked well, ie within a few um.
Then I used Mach3 and an Ethernet SmoothStepper, and that worked well also.
Then I went to Mach4 and the ESS and have used it extensively for seven years. With my new build mill, having quite good acceleration, I can get about 1.5um  accuracy/repeatability with g31 moves.
I use it daily, if not multiple times per day, so g31 works. It's something about your machine, or as John has postulated, the controller. Consider getting a US or European made controller, we know they work
and the manufacturers support them, unlike the Chinese manufacturers.

Craig

6
Hi,
you're lucky to get a response from XHC at all. I don't think any of the development engineers are left. The company just makes copies of what they have made before
without any detailed insight into how they work, or in this case, don't.

Craig

7
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: CNC4PC ESS C82 mach4 setup
« on: June 29, 2022, 12:55:39 AM »
Hi,
servo tuning is a whole other subject altogether. Unless the inertia ratio is really high, say 15 or higher just use Auto-Tune.
Watch the videos an understand it before you attempt it, but Auto-Tune does as well as any.

Craig

8
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: CNC4PC ESS C82 mach4 setup
« on: June 29, 2022, 12:18:58 AM »
Hi,
have you plugged the servo drive into the PC and installed the Delta software? There are hundreds of parameters that go into a modern servo you effectively MUST have the set-up
and tuning software otherwise you'll get nowhere, and you absolutely have to program the drive to suit your machine, there is no such thing as plug-and-play with these servos.

The drive has 8 digital inputs, and each input can be programmed to be a particular function. Its common (default) for SON to be assigned to DI1 (Digital Input 1) but it could just as easily be DI5 say.

The drive has 6 digital outputs (DO's) It's common (default) to have the alarm input on DO5. Looking at the manual for the C34D it would appear that Arturo has assumed the same default assignment,
ie DO5.

DO1 is P2.18, DO2 is p2.19 etc thru DO5 is P2.22 and one outlier, DO6  is P2.37 per page 7-8 of the manual.

You need to alter the parameter P2.22 to a value which results in it being an Alarm output, ie value 0x07 per page 7-103 of the manual. Note that the third hexadecimal digit may either be a '1' or
a '0', which in turn determines whether the output is active high or active low. Thus the two choices you have for the value of P2.22 is 0x107 or 0x007.

Craig

9
Hi,

Quote
To summarize what I did with the G31 in the end, was just to use it as code to stop the machine from moving when the probe tripped. Unfortunately, after repeated tests, I found out that no matter how slow I did de probing, the machine would go about 0.3mm lower from the contact point. From what I tested, it seems that it has to do with how the G31 command is coded, it is either too slow or doesn't properly tell the machine to stop right when the Digitize LED is ON. It just keeps going lower after the probe has tripped.

When the probe is tripped the machine decelerates to a stop, so yes there is overtravel, but 0.3mm???? No way, even my old stepper driven mill which had acceleration of 375mm/ss stopped with 4um after probe trip when decelerating
from 100mm/min. My new mill has acceleration of 1500mm/s2, ie 0.15g , and that's detuned from its rated 0.27g rated deceleration, so the over run is 1-2um. If you have overtravel of 0.3mm your machine has too
low acceleration to probe, fullstop.

Craig

10
Mach4 General Discussion / Re: CNC4PC ESS C82 mach4 setup
« on: June 28, 2022, 02:25:32 AM »
Hi,
before I built my mill I bought a 400W B2 series Delta servo and drive to experiment with and determine whether they would be good enough
for my planned build. They were every bit and more than I expected, so when I built my mill I used them 750W B's. They were only about $40 more
than 400W servos so why not?

One of the things I experimented with was how fast you can go with single ended signaling. The specs say 200kHz.  I tried them  up to 300kHz, but they started
going cranky at about 230kHz. So I regard 200kHz as a good spec.

I have my servos direct connected to 5mm pitch ballscrews, and I chose to make the resolution 1um. That is to say I programmed the drives so that 5000
pulse would cause the servo to rotate one revolution. The rated speed of te servos is 3000rpm, but they can go to 5000rpm. So I calculated the pulse
stream required to make my servos go 5000rpm at 1um resolution:

5000 X 5000 /60= 416.7 kHz. I determined there fore that single ended would not be fast enough ie I required differential signaling, which is rated to 500kHz.
That is what I did.

Note however if I had chosen to relax the resolution to 2um then the calculation changes. Lets face, it 1um is nice but its too f'ing small to measure,
and 2um is still too f'ing small top measure. Additionally while my machine can do 25m/min with the servos doing 5000rpm, I seldom run it anywhere near that,
its just too scary fast, 3000 rpm is still way fast enough. So the calculation is:

2500 x 3000 /60= 125kHz Now 125kHz is well within the single ended signaling rate.

So you see that because I wanted high resolution AND max speed I backed myself into differential, but I could still have a way fast and accurate machine
single ended, and in this case hubris got the better of me.

I suggest you do the calculations to determine what you want, and then be realistic about what you need. I rather suspect if you are more realistic than I, you
would come to the conclusion that single ended is every bit good enough.

Of course if you do decide that single ended is good enough that simplifies the task at hand, namely getting the bloody servos to run at all! I could give
you a parts list and you can get started tomorrow. Do you have a RadioShack or equivalent nearby?

Craig

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