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Messages - trek_fan

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General Mach Discussion / Re: Noobish Question On Motors & Drivers
« on: April 29, 2008, 09:42:17 PM »
I would like to qualify that and say I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE :)  I don't expect I can get there, but it is my target, I will be more than happy to see the machine milling aluminum with a 1/2 inch single flute, but I want to maintain my target of the 1" in steel.  I have to set a high goal, and if I fall short it will still do everything I want it to.

I will get my models into a some decent eDrawings and post them this weekend.

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General Mach Discussion / Re: Noobish Question On Motors & Drivers
« on: April 29, 2008, 06:51:11 PM »
I would rather spend the extra money on the front end and get more than I think I would ever need, than to reflect back, and wish I had got more.  I have never heard anyone complain their car has too much horsepower :)  !!  I want to only by at my upper limit using 75% of available power.  I have to seriously upgrade my spindle.  I hadn't given it much thought, until Stirling mentioned how puny it was (my manhood was threatened :)  )   Anyways, my project goal is to be able to comfortably run a 1" (25.4 mm) 4 flute endmill through carbon steel at a reasonable clip.

I am having serious fun with this project, and really can't wait to complete it! 

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General Mach Discussion / Re: Noobish Question On Motors & Drivers
« on: April 29, 2008, 02:17:14 PM »
http://www.anaheimautomation.com/manuals/L010165%20-%2034Y%20Series%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

That motor for instance is only approx $175 new. (1700 oz one)

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General Mach Discussion / Re: Noobish Question On Motors & Drivers
« on: April 29, 2008, 02:10:14 PM »
Very, very interesting article.  I was under the impression that steppers were notorious for losing steps on a milling application (from an article I read somewhere).  That is why I was heavily leaning towards a servo application.  1200 - 1500 oz steppers would be a more economical situation.  I was not being smart or crass in my last response, I am working hard to try to understand the electronics part of the motors and their drives.

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General Mach Discussion / Re: Noobish Question On Motors & Drivers
« on: April 29, 2008, 05:56:25 AM »
Please forgive me if I am wrong, I thought that in the closed loop system, ie. an encoded motor, if it were to lose steps, then encoder would provide the feedback, and the system could do error correction to get back into position.

In regards to your concern about the spindle servo, you are correct, I had not thought about that.  I was sizing everything to run off the standard off the shelf gecko drive, but I guess I will need to seriously upgrade the spindle servo.  I will have to do some research to see what a good size spindle servo would be.

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General Mach Discussion / Re: Noobish Question On Motors & Drivers
« on: April 28, 2008, 02:34:13 PM »
I will be doing some high speed machineing on this machine center.  I am not sure how much though.  I plan to do mostly aluminums and woods, but am designing to be a sturdy workhorse capable of handling steel and stainless as well.  That is why I am going with a 7k rpm servo as a spindle motor to give me the option for rigid tapping and other options.  I will be using a 2" wide timing belt to run the drive shaft on a 2:1 ratio.  I have a air release cat 40 taper to automatically release and grab tools.  Also I am hopeing to get 10k to 12k rpm comfortably at the tool.  This machine center is in the "from scratch" stages.  I have all the machine frame designed, and most of the parts fabricated.  I have only ran into the problem of the electronic parts (what all pieces needed to drive servos), but thanks to some good responses here, I will be moving forward shortly.  I had to stop fabrication due to motor mounts, and the electrical enclosure needed.

The gantry weight of 125# is just the gantry FRAME, not the drives rails, motors, etc.  I expect it to come in around 160 - 180 pounds when complete.  That is why I was looking at 1/3 hp dc motors for the axis drives and retrofitting encoders to the output shaft or drive shafts, to turn them to servos.  I would prefer to ac motors and encode them to work as servos, but I have not found much information about ac drives.  There are a ton of them out there, but no good explanation of how they work, hookups, etc.  I prefer ac over dc for a hp and economincal reason, more power for less juice, and motors are far cheaper 1/3 the price.

I have the machine designed in SolidWorks, and this weekend I can generate some 3D models and post them if you like.  You would be able to open them in Internet Explorer and rotate in 3D measure, etc.  As a quick background note, I am the Engineering Manager at a medium sized fabrication plant.  We have just about every cnc fabrication tool you can think of, from plasma's, laser's, shear's, turret's, brake's, mill's, lathe's, and on , and on, and on.  I am good friends with the owner, so I have the benefit of using anything I need to build my machine (mainly cause he wants one too :) , which is a project for later)

My plan is thus:  I want to finish this machine and use the experience (and hopefully revenue) to build a larger 5'x10' machine mainly for wood routing, and extremely light machining on soft metals. I would like to incorporate a 4th axis and tool changer onto my bigger machine, but at the moment it is just wishful thinking. 

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General Mach Discussion / Re: Noobish Question On Motors & Drivers
« on: April 27, 2008, 10:01:59 AM »
Thanks for the fast responses.  In answer to your concerns on the axis motors, I referenced an articale that demonstrated how to mount a digital encoder to the back of the motor to turn a regular dc motor into a servo. My gantry alone shows a weight of 125# on my 3D model, not counting the Z axis assembly, Rails, Drives, etc. which is why I wanted to go as large as I can on the axis motors.

http://www.truetex.com/servomod.htm

I was going to use that feed back to make the "closed loop" on the motors.  I had planned on using those motors, and have machined a plumbers block to support the ballscrew and attached a Renco digital encoder to the ballscrew, not the motor.  I am using Lovejoy couplings and they will flex and compress a few thousands as the machine runs, so in order to maintain true positioning, I am enconding the drive shaft, not the motor shaft.  After reveiwing this website I am loosely basing my machine on his:

http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/madvac/madvac_index.htm

I would be willing to go with stepper motors if I could find a driver that would accept encoder feedback and drive steppers. I just don't like the thought of lost steps.

I was also looking the usb driver board you mentioned, but I thought it said mach3 didn't support the USB at the moment.

After reading your post, I think I may understand a bit more.  You can use a breakout board / smooth stepper to "run" seperate drives, OR you can use a all in one wonder like the gecko g100. 

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General Mach Discussion / Noobish Question On Motors & Drivers
« on: April 26, 2008, 08:57:01 PM »
Hi all,

I would like to say my noobishness knows no bounds when it comes to electronics. Electronics are a bit out of my realm.  Anyways , here goes:  I have had this project in the works for quite sometime now, and am finially moving forward.  I have tried to research this for several weeks on the net and ended up confusing myself even farther.  I want to use servo motors instead of steppers, due to the fact of lost steps.  I would be willing to use steppers if a encoder could be mounted to close the loop.  I am planning on using 1/3 HP 90V Permanent Magnet DC Motors.  These should operate nicely with the off the shelf Gecko Drives. I got the idea from this source:

http://www.truetex.com/servomod.htm

I plan to purchase (3) motors from Grainger (X,Y,Z)    http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2M509 

I already have a 1/3 HP 7,000 RPM Spindle Servo Motor with a cat 40 taper in hand. What I am now overly confused about is this:

1.  I was planning to use this   http://www.geckodrive.com/product.cfm?pid=13   Gecko 320 drice.  Will I need a 80V DC power supply to feed the motors somehow?

2. Does Mach3 feed this unit directly?

3. Does Mach3 Feed the Gecko G100 which in turn then drives the 320's?

I guess I am only asking what hardware would I need? I will then try to go from there. 

I already have started construction on the machine, and most of the pieces are already in hand , Linear Rails, Ballscrews, Etc.  I have built a lot of the components where I work using our CNC laser to cut 3/8 plate steel for the machine parts.  Nothing like laser cut holes to line up the linear rails and such.  Also using our CNC lathe and mill to make the mounts, etc.  As far as building the machine, I feel pretty confident.  I just am lost on the electronic parts of the connections and equipment required for the servos.

Basics on the machine are thus : 36" X 36" x 12" machine area.  All running on THK linear bearings and 1 1/2" ballscrews. The gantry shows in my 3D models to weigh in at around 125 pounds, so that is why I want such beefy motors.

I really apprictae any help I can get on this, and hope the flames for my noobishness will be kept to a low level  ;)

Thanks,

Rob

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