Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: spnar on September 11, 2008, 06:43:57 AM
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I have managed to set up my Emco compact 5 and Mach turn and now
need to cut some profiles. I have never drawn profiles for turning and when
i tried some simple stuff Easycam would not load the drawing.
Can anyone share a few sample DXF drawings to get me started.
Thanks :P
Spnar
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I use Qcad. For me a very good cad program that outputs standard dxf.
Lazycam opens it, in am not sure if lazyturn can do it, but the bases are the same so it should also (I never tried it).
Filipe
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I use AutoCad for all my drawings.
What i need is one or two simple drawings just to get an idea of what Lazycam needs
Let us say i need to turn a simple profile which has a straight part with some decorative
features . Should i draw the full profile of the part or just half along the Z axis.
Also will Lazycam need to know where the Z axis centerline for this part is.
Having a couple of sample drawings can help me figure these things out.
Thanks
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I do not use Autocad, but you should save the output in autocad for old compatibility, like R12 or something.
New autocad versions make dxf with more complex, and probably that is confusing lazycam.
Try qcad, is free.
Filipe
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I will provide two examples for your use later today. Maybe write up some comments to make some points and shorten your learning curve.
RICH
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Hi FTOMATZZ
I have tried saving the work in R12 etc but still no result.
I'm pretty sure i am doing something wrong.
Thanks for your help
Hi RICH
Would greatly appreciate your help
spnar
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spnar,
I thought I would help you help yourself to generate some code for that lathe of yours using the Wizards.
Attached is a little tutorial on how to use one of them. This way you can get all the gcode you want
to play around with and learn some things at the same time.
Also attached is a DXF file for one of the pulleys made for a scale model. You can see the finished piece using the link below.
The gcode was generated by Lazcam and cut using MACH Turn. I will look for a file I have somewhere on getting
started with Lazcam.
:) RICH
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,8195.msg51833.html#msg51833
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spanr,
Found the file on using Lazycam to generate Gcode for the lathe. Hopefully it will help you and feel free to comment
on it. The intent here is that you draw something, import it, a couple of clicks and off you go.
;) RICH
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Hi Rich
Will be going thru the material you sent .
Much appreciated
Thanks ;D
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You have to much time on your hands Rich ;D but very nice work :)
Hood
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Rich, you're a great dude, ya know that?
Thanks so much for this info as it will be a great benefit to me when I finally get my lathe running.
Again, thank you- ;)
Dave
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Hi Rich
As you say life is good when things work.
I owe Hood a couple of beere if he ever comes to Malta.
Guess i will have to at least match that with you mate.
When ready i will post a couple of pictures maybe next week
Spnar 8)
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Hi All,
How about making some notes when you try using the info ( in particular if it's wrong or misleading ) or you find yourself stumbling over something. Post some words around it and we'll just add it in or update the files re-posting them on this thread. It's the simple stupid stuff that frustrates or seems to make the learning longer than it should. That will make it easier for the next guy or at least there will be a "quick guide" to refresh memories.
Now if I can just get my FM (F#####G Magic) key on the computer working like I have at work life will be really good.
;) RICH
HOOD: Yes, I should be making chips and finishing the model I'm working on ( 50 hours to go so no hurry) , but the air in my shop causes Hobby Shop ADD thus allowing me the option of diverting at any moment. :-\
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RICH, I agree with Hood...Nice work.
LCam needs all the help it can get. More correctly, WE need all the help we can get.
Like Tony said, experienced CAM users get along really well with it, they know what to expect...and what not to.
It's us GREENHORNS that seem to have the most problems.
I think I've been over your way a time or 2.
Landed at Georgetown once and had to go by Dover to get around the DC ADIZ.
Might look you up some time.
I'll call first of course.
Are you near any small airports ?
Thanks,
RC
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RC,
More than welcome, just give a yell. Wilmington and Summit are a stones throw.
As far as Lazycam, if correlation or understanding of the tool to be used and cuts to be made in a few examples
verses what you draw is conveyed it would minimize frustrations. Then a little awareness on what bad code to look out for and get rid of. Even when you think you got it just right the magic wand can humble you but at least you have an idea on how to address it. Just need to sit down on the fast computer and capture away.
As far as being a Greenhorn ( man, haven't heard that expression in a long time) , well you can include me, because this guy keeps it simple.
RICH
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OK folks,
Just some how to on editing LAZCAM generated gcode for the lathe.
The only guarantee is fun!
RICH
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Better let Brett know about this, he only has one ;D
Hood
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That's why code is attached. This way a novice can modify it for a close tolerance fit using one of the pulldowns, there's a choice of three different sizes depending on the pocketing technique you wish to use. Of course, you always have the option of removing some code should no extra in and out moves along the X & Z are required.
;D ;D RICH
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;D
Brett
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Hey RICH,
Trying your little tutorial here. DXF..excellent, Clean and Convert in LCam...excellent.
Then LCam will not save ANY tools that I set-up in the toolbox. NONE !
Then I keep getting "Unrecoverable Errors" and shutdown.
Can you give me the entries that you have for the tool and the other parameters for the 3 ball handle ?
Thanks,
RC
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After cleaning, select roughing tool, go to the bottom box and give a name to it , then select one of the numbered tool from the pulldown
click save. Select it, then when you go to the finishing tool use the pulldown and you should see the tool you just saved.
I said this would be fun!
Play around with the paramters some and see what lazcam shows.
Step: .050, .1, .20, .005
margin: use .1, then try decreasing it, like .010
Finish: .001, .002
I got the unrecoverable error to. In the tool window change the angle to something like .1 deg seems if it's to small things crash.
I don't care much about the tool parameters, to cut this handle ( small one anyway) you would need to use a "point tool ".
RICH
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" I said this would be fun!"
Oh it is............but it was much more fun when I had HAIR ! :-\
Thanks RICH,
RC
EVERY TIME now....tried all I know to try...many combos .
Thanks RICH,
done
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RC,
Happy your foolin with the file, you fell into my spiders web. You just identified one of the frustrating parts.
So I was going to do some quick guide on inputs. I won't get into changing start point,
the layers and all the other side bar stuff. I am trying to keep things simple.
My thinking on this goes like this:
I should be able to create a point tool but shouldn't have some value which would may cause dividing by or allmost"o".
Why this one is hard, is that there is no way you can cut this with one tool unless it's a point. Thats why the
inside corners have that .004" radius curve between the balls. That curve must be large enough for a tool to be able
to get in there and cut it and also do rough cleanout cuts. So it could be a good drawing, clean and covert well, but now you got to put some thought into how it's going to be cut. With some profiles i would guess it may be easier to use / compose it out of the wizards. Most users will un-thinkingly just assume what's imported can be generated with no
thinking around the cutting. No program is that smart.
Let me know how it looks in MACH.
RICH
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RC,
Reboot your pc. I have found if you continue when you get that message your going to the black hole. Even if you go out of lazycam and MACH and come back, go to some other program and it works, if you go back into MACH or Lazycam
your in for the message again. I tried it until I locked the PC up. Just reboot and start clean, but take a look at the tool and also parameter's when you go back in. One or a combination of them is the culprit.
RICH
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I wish I could get it TO Mach. I get the error when I hit the Create Profiles button.
RC
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Just got your BOOT post.
Will try that, just before I boot it out the door.
RC
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Well the cord was too short...didn't make it through the door.
Error every time still.
RICH, could you post the .lCam file of the part ?
Thanks,
RC
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I just got that message also. Need to reboot. Back in about 5 minutes.
RICH
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.lcam ?? where, what , Do mean the file which is posted by lazcam into MACH?
If that is the case the first one with code errors is attached. All of the files are included and noted in the
THREEBALLS4TO4D.txt file posted
That error message must be catchy. Got it again. May be that the step and margin in the parameters can't be the same.
RICH
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When ready to post code, save it here.
Then send.
Thanks,
RC
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Rc,
I just tried LAZCAM on another computer. ( man what a difference on a fast machine with lots of memory).I got the same error message. More than once. I didn't reboot, but changed the TOOL ANGLE to a value of 10 instead of .1 or .0001 and all was good. Then tried different parameters and still had no problem. Think the tool angle is the culprit. I tried the 10 value with a diamond and buttom shape seemed ok.
Need to tr it iin a more disciplined manner to really confirm.
RICH
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I tried .01, .1, 1 here and in increments of 10 from 10 to 50.......wreck every time.
RC
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Here is the file.
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Well now that's just LOVELY RICH.
One thing left to do.....
Please give me screenshots of EVERY dang setting....The tool selection window as well as the parameter list on the left.
I need to duplicate yours EXACTLY and try mine before I set something on FIRE !
Thanks,
RC
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RC,
Both the roughing and finishing tools are the same.
RICH
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RC,
Remember what I said.
;D The only guarantee is fun! ;D
RICH
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Thanks RICH...that' enough for now. Too much actually.
Mine is apparently dead.
Thanks for your time.
Might fool with it later.
Regards,
RC
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Oh yea....I've never had so much FUN in my life !
I'm thinking about sending in another $75.00.
Priceless.............
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For those of you who may be following this thread. Participation is at your owne risk.
The names of the people who had three balls are being kept secret to protect the innocent.
One thing for sure, it's a take for the night!
;D RICH
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::)All in all......it may be a GOOD thing that I cannot create a cutting path for my 3 balls !
RC ::) :D
8)
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ANYBODY, maybe that's only you RC,
Can this bad rapid move be identied in the .lcam file to delete or modify it?
Or is it to late in the process to do anything about it?
Just looking for an optional way for code modification other than doing it in MACH.
RICH
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RICH,
I hope it is only me.
I tried at least 4 different STRAIGHT segment DXF's and they ALL work fine with the previous tool settings. And they all need tweaking but post good code. So I'd say those settings are fine.
I took your DXF into Autosketch9 and modified it every way I could and it still gives the error.
I think it's something to do with the arcs. I converted them to everything available and still NOGO.
RC
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RC,
I know from other files i created that the bad rapid seems to be always there. It is creates what it creates!
So maybe just a word search of the file to get all G0 / rapid moves and you know what line numbers to pay attention to when dry running the program. If I get a chance tonight, will do a quick write up on the parameters, which could ease pain. That would be done by showing the differentt effects on tool path via some screen shots done in some in some logical order. With that guidance at least somebody completely new would have a base to go back to or modify for a known reason.
Now the tools are a different story, since as you change the angle ( included angle of the tool ie; 60 deg for threading is the way i interpret it, but could be wrong ) Lazycam will generate different different tool paths. Maybe just need to make a couple of points on this and leave it go. Don't plan on writing a book.
If you get a chance. Bring one of the files into MACH. I had trouble " zooming in " on the tool path window for version later tha xx.041
of MACH. It would enlarge the piece, but not enough to see the detail of the tool paths while simulating. Pain in the neck when looking for a bad line of code.
RICH
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High, Rich and RC
Rich i found usually in lcam when you run into dead end rapid like that it is a piece of trash that is put in the dxf from the cad program. then when lcam looks at the dxf it will
attach a rapid to it. zoom in on the end of the rapid, highlight that little chain and delete it. one of the things i like about lcam is the rapids feature. when you see a rapid move to nowhere,
means you will find trash at the end of it.
bill
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Thanks Bill,
I'll explore that a little. Don't have much control over the DFX's produced by 100 different CAD programs.
So any good clues, like what you said, gives insight on how to find and deal with the output from LAZCAM.
Got anymore?
Appreciate it,
RICH
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NOT NEED TO RESPOND TO THIS JUST TRYING FIND ANSWER TO A "FOUR COMPUTER PROBLEM"
This really suck's at the present moment. Something in the tools and parameters causes the
me to get that "unrecoverable error message". Four computers messed up at the moment,
no... not 1 but "4" computers. >:(
---------
TESTS :-\:
FRESH BOOT ON SHOP LAPTOP
MACH R 3.041 NEW FILE TRIED IN LAZCAM
PARAMETERS: SD.005, MARGIN .01, FIN TOL.1
TOOL:NR .001,W.001,BA.5 MP.5 BUT USING DIAMOND AND NOT BUTTON TS=L
WORKED
NOW
CLOSE FILE, DXF-THREEBALLS
SAME SETTINGS BUT BUTTON
ERROR MESSAGE
------------------------
CLOSE AND GO OUT, LC AGAIN
USE DIAMOND TOOL
ERROR MESSAGE
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REBOOT PC, BACK INTO LCAM
THREE BALLS FILE
ALL PARAMATERS THE SAME BUT USING DIAMOND
WORKS
---------------------------------------
OPPS
NOW SELECT BUTTON, SAME PARAMETERS
WORKS
OOPS
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NOW SELECT BUTTON / SAVE/SELECT
WORKS
----------------------
OOPS
CLOSE FILE DXF IN AGAIN
SAME PARAMETERS BUT BUTTON TOOL
WORKS
----------------------------
CLOSE FILE DXF IN AGAIN
CHANGE BA=.1 DEG SAVE/SELECT
WORKS
--------------------------
CLOSE FILE DXF IN AGAIN
NOW CHANGE ONLY STEP DIST=.1
WORKS
---------------------------------
OOPS
NOW ONLY CHANGE MARGIN=.1
WORKS DUMMY- SHOULD OF SAVED LCAM XML!
------------------------------
EXIST LCAM, BACK IN
THREEBALLS
TOOL NR.001 , W.001,BA.1, MP.5 TS=L BUTTON SAVE / SELECT
SD=.1 MAR=.1 FT=.001
"ERROR MESSAGE " that little bugger is found
----------------------------
REBOOT
LCAM,
TURN
CHANGED SD=.OO5 M.01 FT.1
DXF THREEBALLS /TURN/CC
TOOL NR.001 W.001 BA.1 MP.5 TS=L BUTTON SAVE/SELECT
"ERROR"
-----------------------
REBOOT
LCAM,DXF THREE BALLS /TURN/CC
PARAMETERS: SD.005, MARGIN .01, FIN TOL.1
TOOL:NR .001,W.001,BA.5 MP.5 DIAMOND /SAVE
"ERROR"
----------------
LCAM,TURN/DXF THREE BALLS?_1 /CC
PARAMETERS: SD.005, MARGIN .01, FIN TOL.1
TOOL:NR .001,W.001,BA.5 MP.5 DIAMOND /SELECT
DOSN'T WORK BUT NO ERROR MESSAGE
CLOSE FILE
DXF THREEBALLS /CC
TOOL:NR .001,W.001,BA.5 MP.5 DIAMOND /SAVE/SELECT
PARAMETERS: SD.005, MARGIN .01, FIN TOL.1
*****WORKS*****
CLOSE FILE EXIT LCAM / MACH DIR & SAVE LCAM XML
---------------------------------------
LCAM
DXF THREEBALLS TURN/CC
TOOL:NR .001,W.001,BA.5 MP.5 DIAMOND /SELECT
PARAMETERS: SD.005, MARGIN .01, FIN TOL.1
"ERROR"
------------------------------
LCAM,TURN/DXF THREE BALLS?_1 /CC
PARAMETERS: SD.005, MARGIN .01, FIN TOL.1
TOOL:NR .001,W.001,BA.5 MP.5 DIAMOND /SELECT
DOSN'T WORK BUT NO ERROR MESSAGE
CLOSE FILE
DXF THREEBALLS /CC
TOOL:NR .001,W.001,BA.5 MP.5 DIAMOND /SAVE/SELECT
PARAMETERS: SD.005, MARGIN .01, FIN TOL.1
*****WORKS*****
----------------------------------
So once it gets buggy you need to bring another file in! :)
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To Lazycam future turners, no this thread is not dead yet. Just exploring the tools. Stay tuned!
RICH
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Thanks, Rich, even though I'm not saying much, I'll be watching and hopefully learning- ;)
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BUDMAN68
When are you going to start writing something for the Mill portion of Lazcam?
Can't just sit back after learning it and not share that knowledge with dummies like me.
;D RiCH
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I don't use Lcam, but just my two cents worth, when I use Surfcam I know it likes the start point of a roughing/ finishing operation to be on the outside of the material, and, like almost all canned cycles, it will return to the start point at the end, which at that point you are supposed to add in the rapid away moves. Try to change the start of the cycle to the outside of your stock, maybe you have to add a line to represent the stock max diameter or something. I'm betting that this is where your potential crash is being added in at the end.
DaveA.
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Hello DaveA,
The rapid depicted is from the end of the roughing cycle to the start of the finish pass.
I just change the G0 Z* X* move to G0 Z*
G0 X*
Do you have any experience with Vector CAM ?
Thanks,
RC
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BUDMAN68
When are you going to start writing something for the Mill portion of Lazcam?
Can't just sit back after learning it and not share that knowledge with dummies like me.
;D RiCH
lol! you're kidding right? ;)
Seriously though, wasn't there a German manual for LazyCam? I posted a message on the yahoo forum asking about it and possibly it can be translated? I'm not German but possibly we could get by with an online translater?
I know they're not great but just a thought?
Dave
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DAVE,
Never looked for one the WEB. If there is one ,and even a crude translation could be made, it would give insight
on use. As you can tell, currently only interested in the lathe part. As far as writing anything, just kidding, but then when I need help I'll know who to summon. ;)
RICH
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To All,
One of the frustrating parts of Lazcam turn is defining settings for the rough & finish tools and additionaly the parameters in terms of how they relate to the cutting of the profile. One of the easiest ways to get a good flavor of the relationship is to import a drawing like the attached. Now try different settings for the different tools / parameters, create profile , see the effects on cutting / OOPS back- try somemore settings ect..
Since the attached file has all common values of 1" it's easy to review the GCODE moves as they relate to the profile when posted into MACH.
Will post a little something on this as a few pitcures are worth a thousand words.
RICH
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TO ALL,
A little how to about settings and parameters when using lazcam for turning.
:)RICH