Machsupport Forum

G-Code, CAD, and CAM => LazyCam (Beta) => Topic started by: Kristin D on August 26, 2008, 12:59:55 AM

Title: Learning Curve ahead! Problem Solved!!!!!
Post by: Kristin D on August 26, 2008, 12:59:55 AM
Methodology

Here is a file I would like to cut, could probably hand code everything but would rather not if the computer can do it for me. I am thinking I need to run LC about 3-4 times with different entities on a separate dxf file and then merge them together into a single tap file with stops for tool changes.

I was thinking first off running a #11 drill for the five holes and perhaps even the two points at the ends of the .75r arc (all the holes have a point so I can loose the circles) then switching to a 3/16” mill and doing the 1.25 diameter hole and the arc and finish up by trimming the corner radius perhaps with a larger mill cutter.

I forgot to mention there is a .5 x .125 deep counterbore around the four holes in the array, they would need to be delt with on the second pass with the 3/16 cutter.

I am not looking for someone to run off a file but to learn how to do this myself for future projects, if anyone does post some code please add some notes as to what is going on.


Ideas and suggestions welcome.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 26, 2008, 09:34:41 AM
Hi,Kristin

looks like you are off to a good start.you did not mention the size and type of stock, that would help to determin clamping and stuff.your post mention that you are interested in tool changes
and multi files.you can cut that part out with a 3/16 center cutting end mill using L-cam and no tool changes.this is a good little project to learn with.you will be able to learn L-cam and all the
do/dont that you can get away with.i would cut it out in this order . do the counter bore then poke the hole,cut the center out as a slug,do the slot,poke your last hole,then finish the outside to
knock the part out.with L-cam you can turn that drawing into a many differant layer program.have fun with this one you will learn alot quickly.

bill
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 26, 2008, 11:36:26 AM
Hi Bill,

The material will be 6061-T6 and .25 thick. So if I am following along by placing the entities on different layers I can make this happen, any idea which layer is processed first?

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 26, 2008, 11:43:19 AM
Kristin, you can actually move the layers around in the order that you'd like. The videos give a pretty good example of how that's done. I also agree with Bill, that is an excellent part to use a 3/16th centercutter endmill and that would be it. Since the last step would be to cut the outside profile out, I usually leave a little "web" at the bottom so that when the cut is complete, it doesn't "break" loose on you and flop around. Then it's nothing to just clean the edge up after pulling it off the table.

I still want to learn how to use the TABS function but haven't yet tried that.  :)
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 26, 2008, 12:10:12 PM
Hey Kristin

here is a possible.you want to do 4 counterbores with holes.you can do a layer that has 1counterbore with a hole in it.wich would make 4 layers.or you can do all 4 counterbores as one
layer.that is why i said you have a excellant starting project for l-cam.you can play to your hearts desires.make sure to delete all of your demension chains so you have clean chains to start with
and when you do your offsets remember to delete the chain you offseted from.in your tool settings when you add tools you can list a 3/16 EM with differant speeds and depths.so you might
have a 3/16 listed 5 times.

bill

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 26, 2008, 12:15:12 PM
Oh i forget to mention in l-cam your layers list from top to bottom.when you generate code it will run from top to bottom.you can use your mouse to move the layers up and down
in the left side menu.

bill
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 26, 2008, 07:33:29 PM
OK, here we go, I cut this file already but didn't step it off the table, now I have put a  1/4" spacer under it by loosining one clamp at a time (part is acrylic 1/4 thick) now I want to cut the arrow outline out, how do I do it with LC now, obviously remove the text and graphics, then what, offset the outer arrow by .5 the cutter dia? Run a new file with several cuts in steps to do this?

If someone could walk me through this it would be great, again not asking for it to be done for me but just step by step how it's done.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 26, 2008, 08:08:49 PM
Kristin

hey you are doing pretty good.now take your l-cam and you can either delete the inner chains or move them to a new layer.to move to new layer ,put mouse on chain in menu and
right click.accept send to new layer.after moving chains to new layer you can then disable the layer with the layer menu.you want to get the arrow chain on it's layer.highlight the chain arrow
then click offset.with the offset menu open select tool.you will now have to edit your tool menu by adding your .5 cutter.save then select the tool. l-cam will use 1/2 the dia of the tool for the offset.

bill
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 26, 2008, 08:19:47 PM
Bill,

Actually I want to use a smaller cutter, how do I set the pass cuts and set the offset?  I am thinking a 1/4" cutter and would like to take the outside cut perhaps at .01-.015 or so per cut, the acrylic is nasty stuff if you overheat it or the cutter.

I did delete everything but the outer arrow, so I know I need to climb mill around that( and yes loose the sharp inside corrners to the mill)

I guess the part I can't figure is the depth of cut per pass, where do I enter that?

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 26, 2008, 08:46:31 PM
Kristin

when you edit your tool menu for say a .250 dia cutter.there is a place for tool depth.so your plastic is .250 thick.if you set tool depth at .050 in the tool menu and l-cam goes to use that tool
it will generate 5 passes at .050 a pass.if you set tool depth to .125 l-cam will generate 2 passes .when you do the code.if you look at the layers menu at the right hand side you will see .

rapid height =tool above work set at .100
cut start = tool touching work  set at 0
cut depth = tool in work  set at -.250

if your material is .250 thick and you want to cut all the way through it set cut depth at -.270

bill
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 03:43:19 PM
I think I've got it now, took a while to see where to set everything and move entities to a new layer, set the depth and offsets but I think I am ready to make some acrylic snow as a test cut in plexiglass scrap.

Attached are my LC file and tap file.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 27, 2008, 04:21:02 PM
Kristin

your doing better. but you have to redo it.when you offset a chain you have to remove the original chain.you left all of you original chains and when l-cam did your code it wrote them into
the tap file.l-cam will take everything that it can find active and write code for it.so you have to delete or disable original chains.later tonight or tomorrow i will do your dxf with a 3/16 end mill
the way i think you should cut it out.and you can use it for a comparison.you are catching on pretty fast,just keep pounding on it.

bill
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 04:51:24 PM
Bill,

I just tried cutting and my 1/2" dia pockets are more like 5/8" Guess I need to go back to the original dxf and start over, but it's progress. I do use inside offset for the pockets, slot and holes and outside for the outer perimiter correct?

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 27, 2008, 04:58:44 PM
Kristin

you did not delete the original chain that you used to make the offset.

bill
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 05:06:14 PM
I get that part, going to start from scratch, I could not figure out what was what at this point so I'll start fresh and move layers offset then delete the original chains Think I'll write down all the numbers first so I can keep it straight.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 27, 2008, 05:27:21 PM
Kristin, just take note that when you pocket or offset an item, as soon as you click that button, the original line that was offset or pocketed, will turn red and then all you have to do is hit the "rem. objects" button and it will disappear -  ;)
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 05:27:38 PM
Really not getting there, anybody with a clear step by step moving layers, offseting and deleting originals explantion, it seems I select the wrong thing to delete. Going to start again real simple with a single hole and a single recess, way too hot today again.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 06:56:35 PM
Dave,

I have tried that, just seem to be getting nowhere, I know I said I didn't want pre-made code but if you could just do a .191 dia through hole .25 deep and a 1/2" dia around that .125" deep at least I could compare the code. Oh I am using a 3/16 end mill so it has to be offset from what I can figure .0995" or is that a negative number too? I keep getting too big a circle with everything I try. I would think the offsets for this would be inside which I what I have been using, well another several hours wasted and I seem to be getting nowhere fast.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 27, 2008, 07:12:52 PM
Ok, I did one for you with a .030 Z clearance height and each pass is only .030 as well. The plunge feed is 1 and the feedrate is 10 but change it if you like, of course.

  Let me know how it goes for you, ok?
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 07:30:18 PM
Dave How very interesting the code now reads :

N55 G1  Z-0.0300  F1.00
N60 G2  I-0.0021  J0.0000  F10.00  N65 G0  Z0.1000
N70 G1  Z-0.0600  F1.00
N75 G2  I-0.0021  J0.0000  F10.00

Not the -0.0955 that my lazy came generated???

ODD indeed....

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 27, 2008, 07:41:50 PM
What version are you using? (click "help/about")

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 07:51:27 PM
3.00.2 pro edition.

I went back and verified that the selected tool was listed as .1875 dia, the feeds and speeds translated OK it was the offset that came out wierd.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 27, 2008, 07:55:32 PM
Will you run this tomorrow?


Dave
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 08:13:50 PM
Already ran the file you sent, worked perfectly a very rough measurment of the large OD was .497 but I really didn't get the calipers straight so it's probably .500"

Might be time to just remove and reload LC and see what happens next. Could also be my DXF's from Solid Edge 2D but I have used them w/o ofsets and they seem to be accurate as well as DXF's exported from Corel Draw. I't really hot here in the front of the house where my PC is so I have to retreat and come back later to reload the program and give it another shot. I'll report the results, OH can you send the DXF you used to create the LC file that may clear up another bit of the puzzle if yours works and mine does not.

Krristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 27, 2008, 08:23:11 PM
Sure, but then I have to hit the hay...lol!

Glad it worked for you, you'll figure it out -  :)

Dave

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 08:36:09 PM
Thanks Dave,

The two DXF files yours and mine look identical, even the same ref dimension up in the top right of the LC screen. I'll play around later and see what I get but I think it's time to remove/reboot/reinstall LC something must be going on there.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 27, 2008, 11:30:42 PM
ALL very strange, took me a while to delete LC, seems some files stay in Mach3 so I dumped that too and took out the folder which still had about eight files still remaining, could be why every previous time I loaded LC it still had the same tool table which I was trying to loose! Anyway now I am back to the 2.61 version of LC anot the 3.00.2 version and the offsets work fine!!! Well it's a coin toss now do I put 3.00.2 back or just go with what works?

Kristin

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 28, 2008, 05:01:28 AM
Well, I personally like to stick with what works but I will always give new versions a "try" on a different PC to test them out before using them "seriously".  ;)

Dave
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 28, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
Hi ,Krisitn

I used l-cam 300.2 -- the tap file is for a 3/16 center cut end mill.
l-cam had trouble with your original dxf when doing some arcs.i opened it with cadstdlite and used the export feature to save as a new dxf.this works as a great filter for cad programs that have trouble
with l-cam. attached will be a tap and l-cam file to show you one possible way to do the part. there are many .also a copy of the filtered dxf.i gave you a little extra clearence with the slot.when i did the tool
table the tool  was set as 3/16 end mill -- dia .1875 -- f 5.0 -- s 10.0 -- depth .050 --.

bill

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 29, 2008, 01:26:18 PM
Bill,

I'll take a look at those files a bit later, have to deal with the end of month bill paying today and get in supplies so I don't need to go out again till Tuesday. I live near a large lake that attracts too many kooks on holidays so I just stock up and lock the gates till they all leave town.

Edit:

Bill the file looks good I tried the program you mentioned (free version) to clean the dxf, still didn't have any luck. Well let me backtrack a bit, now I am trying to create some acrylic house numbers 3126 to be exact, I made them in Corel draw saved as dxf and when I try to offset I get all sorts of strange shapes, single numbers seem to be ok in both v2.61 and v300.2. Next I did the same thing with LC and used the text tab, selected Times New Roman typed 3126, draged it to the page and tried offsets and get wierd shapes, large lobes and jagged triangles! I have tried this with both versions of LC, perhaps it just can't do a string of text only single characters?   

Well I am back at v2.61 again after deleteing everything again and still no closer to the answer, I can't think I am the first person to want to offset text.

Kristin

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 29, 2008, 06:56:56 PM
Kristin

you might have computer problem.what are the specs of your computer. do you have it overclocked.do you have big memory in it. if you have over 1gig ,take some out and
try it 1gig or less. there has been a lot of reports of motherboards using over 1gig memoy doing bad things to drawing programs.

bill

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 29, 2008, 08:26:13 PM
Bill,

2.8 GHz P4, 1.2 Gig memory, I can try this on the slower machine I use for my machine I  think that is a 1.8GHz P4 w/512 Gig of memory. Interesting thought, I'll try and get back with the information if this works. The wierd part is that even the built in txt function of LC didn't work?

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 29, 2008, 08:48:17 PM
News flash!!!! Amazing who would have thought too much memory was a bad thing! with the 512Meg on the machine PC it works without all the wierd distortions!

Very odd indeed!

Thanks for all the help, now m only problem is I can't do this at my desk I have to go to the shop to create filles.

 >:( ;D :o

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 29, 2008, 09:02:31 PM
wow, never heard of the memory thing being an issue. That's really is an odd one. I have 1.5 gig of ram on here (2.8 gig P4) with no issues.

Ya learn something new everyday about LCam -  :D

Dave
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 29, 2008, 09:46:11 PM
Dave,
Struck me as odd too, never heard of too much memory but perhaps it's possible, I tried it on the machine PC w/512Meg and it worked without a problem.

Krisitin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 29, 2008, 10:32:18 PM
see that 1.2 gig that windows reports is a dead giveaway.you got work to do.start looking for updates .you will probably have to flash your cmos.look for drivers and windows memory patches.
if it is a store bought computer and not a home built one.it will have a bottom of the barrell motherboard and a lot of paper that say's how great it is. Go get em killer! Kristin you might have two
memory strips in your desk computer pull one out and try it.

bill

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 30, 2008, 12:13:27 AM
Bill,

It's an IBM desktop, originaly with 256Meg of mem, I added a gig about a year ago, aside from that it works flawlessly. The other PC I run the machine on has only 512megs of memory and processes the files fine, I guess that is the trade off I can create files in my office and have to spend a few min in the shop to process the code. I still find it interesting that too much memory causes a problem, bet Vista users are sunk as I hear 2 Gig is recomended minimum memory.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 30, 2008, 12:51:46 AM
Kristin

you missing what i am saying . pull that 256 strip out and you might be ok. if your cmos and drivers are not up to snuff when you past one gig the memory managers have a hard time cache
memory between the strips and video when using drawing and cad programs.but your data and file programs will run perfect. one of my computers has a motherboard that can handle 32gig
and i have 16gig installed. it is triple booted with winxp home,xppro 64 and linux. the 64 and linux run great but the xphome has no chance.

bill
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 30, 2008, 07:28:34 AM
Sorry to derail this thread, but Bill, I have to see this motherboard that holds that size memory. What brand and model is it if you don't mind saying?

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: docltf on August 30, 2008, 09:34:38 AM
Budman

my buddy has been upgrading some of his servers getting them all to rack models. he gave me one of these so i could put it in a atx case. supermicro h8dmi-2 motherboard with a cpu and
16gig memory. it sets one cpu complete so i can play with it. not bad for free. butt he won't give me any pointers, i have to learn on my own. i don't try to run mach on this.

bill

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: budman68 on August 30, 2008, 10:25:47 AM
Excellent, Bill, I figured it had to be something like that. I'd love to play with some "hand me downs" like that.  :D

Dave
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on August 30, 2008, 07:39:22 PM
Kristin

you missing what i am saying . pull that 256 strip out and you might be ok. if your cmos and drivers are not up to snuff when you past one gig the memory managers have a hard time cache
memory between the strips and video when using drawing and cad programs.but your data and file programs will run perfect. one of my computers has a motherboard that can handle 32gig
and i have 16gig installed. it is triple booted with winxp home,xppro 64 and linux. the 64 and linux run great but the xphome has no chance.

bill


Bill,

The factory spec for my PC states 2GB memory, so I can't see that as the problem, I did check for BIOS updates when I got it and it was fine. So I am still lost as to how the memory could be affecting things, also the other machine PC also has some wierd things with LC not the same but others I have encountered. I really need to start documenting the strange things, I am a little ticked with parting with $75 for added "features" that don't really work right and still no documentation. Guess I'll have to take it up with the management on Tuesday afte the weekend. Overall it works but is as full of bugs as a Motel matress at the "no tell motel"

Time to take a rest from this for the holiday, I'll get mad all over later.

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead!
Post by: Kristin D on September 01, 2008, 08:50:56 PM
see that 1.2 gig that windows reports is a dead giveaway.you got work to do.start looking for updates .you will probably have to flash your cmos.look for drivers and windows memory patches.
if it is a store bought computer and not a home built one.it will have a bottom of the barrell motherboard and a lot of paper that say's how great it is. Go get em killer! Kristin you might have two
memory strips in your desk computer pull one out and try it.

bill


Bill,

Well "problem solved" I think, Art Fenerty responded on the Yahoo site and suggested I zoom in on the character I was trying to offset and it worked perfectly! Still strange, wonder if it's screen resolution, video memory or what. But bottom line is it works, no problems with 1.26GB in my machine and it saved me pulling out the 256Meg strip for nothing.

Kristin

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead! Problem Solved!!!!!
Post by: docltf on September 11, 2008, 11:56:32 AM
Hey,Kristin

did you ever test run that file i did for you. and if you can post a picture of your mill.

thanks bill

Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead! Problem Solved!!!!!
Post by: Kristin D on September 11, 2008, 01:00:10 PM
Bill,

Yes I did run it and it seemed to work fine, I have since given up on LC though, just too flaky and difficult to use interface. Matter of fact I got a refund and threw away the key! I don't have any pictures of the mill but it is a standard issue Taig mill that I changed the leadscrews out for the upgraded CNC set & motor mounts. Right now I am still trying to get the home/limit switches mounted and all the wires tucked up, it's covered in swarf and doesn't look like much.

Now to search out a program that works without going broke or loosing my mind trying to get it to work!

Kristin
Title: Re: Learning Curve ahead! Problem Solved!!!!!
Post by: mcyr on September 19, 2008, 06:56:59 PM
After "CAMing" all the features I want in a part in LCam, the last thing I do is remove all the "original" entities of the dxf file I started with before posting the gcode. I do this by just selecting the layer (usually layer 0) and deleting. I do this because I sometimes use the same dxf entity for multiple operations (i.e islands on the inside and offset cut with tabs on the outside) so deleting immediately after creating the island would be a problem.

If only Lcam had the ability to Z-ramp on lead-ins!!!

Still a pretty darn good program for the money.

Best regards,
Mike