Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => SmoothStepper USB => Topic started by: Hood on August 17, 2008, 02:51:49 PM
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I have been using the SmoothStepper since the start of the Beta testing days on my mill and also have the original Beta board on a coil winding machine. Both machines work great with the SS but they are really not a good benchmark for how good the SS can be. I have had one lying around for a couple of months now waiting for the spindle sync to be done so that I could fit it to the Lathe, I do a fair amount of threading so couldnt even contemplate using the SS on the lathe until the sync was done.
I got a test version of the PlugIn a few days ago, along with a few other of the original Beta testers. Today was the first day that I had time to test things out and to say I am very happy would be a vast understatement.
First off the threading, it is working perfect for me and produced a very clean well spaced thread as near to perfect as I can tell. I however have a large lathe and the spindle is around 20HP at the 1000RPM I cut the thread at so there is no chance of the spindle slowing even if I took the thread in one pass :D So my results may not be the best test for the SS and threading but it does show that the SS is definitely not having a problem starting the thread at exactly the same point each pass.
Now the next bit, previously the max rapid speed I could get on my lathe was 3,300mm/min as the encoders are 2,000 line or 8,000count, this meant that at 45KHz kernel and 2:1 electronic gearing in the drive I was limited on the rapids.
Today I decided to crank things up a bit, I went from 3,300mm/min velocity and 200mm/sec/sec Accelleration to 6,600mm/min and 400mm/sec/sec. It ran very well so I decided to again double the Velocity to 13,200 but kept the Acell at 400, everything went well so I cranked up the Accell to 600 and again things went well. Then put the accell up to 800mm/sec/sec and initial tests seemed fine but testing further I found my Z axis would fault out occasionally. I turned it down to 700mm/s/s and all was well.
For my drive to fault the position has to be out by 20 counts so on my lathe that is 0.0125mm or 0.00049" so its not much :)
The saddle on my lathe weighs in at approx 400Kg and I just didnt have the courage to test any further on the velocity, in fact I will more than likely turn it down to 10,000mm/min and then maybe as I get used to it I will crank it up a bit further and see how things perform. I have attached a pic of the thread I did today with the SS, pic quality is not the best but it shows a 16mm dia thread with a 2mm pitch and the material was mild steel.
Hood
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Thats very impressive, I cant wait for this to be released. I havent put the SS board on my lathe for the same reason , need to cut threads daily. I am having to use electronic gearing currently 6:1 on my big lathe to get 800IPM rapids (aprox 20000mm per min) and will be very happy to set it back to 1:1
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I dont have the courage to crank mine up to 20m/min LOL, the original was 5M/min and twice that will do for now :)
Hood
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Hello,
That's very good news, can´t awaite to modify my lathe :D. Since more than a year i´m waiting for an affordable pulse generator with the ability for threading (Threadind is my everyday's work and the PP is on the limits). . IMO this is also a small, but very important step for the usability of Mach.
BTW: My first SmoothStepper is running on my mill without any troubles
Greets,
Helmut
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thanks for the updates guys.
i would like to see some videos of the machine running by SS.can u post them.
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IMO this is also a small, but very important step for the usability of Mach.
I agree, :)
thanks for the updates guys.
i would like to see some videos of the machine running by SS.can u post them.
I will try and take one doing the same job as I already have on You Tube. Dont know if I will manage today as I have a lot of work on but will do it as soon as possible.
Hood
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Managed to get a quick vid done of the first op of the pullstud I showed in the last video so you will be able to compare the rapid speeds. I wont be able to get it uploaded until I get home as I forgot to bring the USB lead for the camera LOL
Hood
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HOOD,
I assume that you were using a MACH test version. Did the SS plug-in have spindle sync or a form of backlash in it yet?
It will be interesting on how well the punny lathe's ( like mine ) will do.
Look forward to when a complete backlash and threading will be available with the SS. Till then, it's the old computer with a test
version of threading ( which by the way works great but of course not with the SS).
RICH
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Rich,
yes test version of Mach, previous versions wont work with the test plugin. It has spindle sync, although at this point in time its just reading the index pulse.
Not sure how the other testers are doing with regards threading but its working well for me.
Backlash is not implemented yet and neither is softlimits although I did test a version a while back that had softlimits, they worked fairly well and were just needing some tweaks.
Shouldnt be too long before Greg gets all the niggles smoothed out.
Hood
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Heres a link to the lathe with the SmoothStepper fitted. Its doing the same as the first op in my last video posted ie the threaded section of the pullstuds I am making for the Beaver mill.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8J9q0NqoHhg
Hood
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Friggin amazing, my friend. Thanks so much for sharing.
Dave
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Nice video. You got to admit it feels good when the machine does what you want it to do.
Better yet, when the part comes out correctly.
RICH
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Thanks guys, what amazes me is how quickly you get used to the speed and start to think its not that fast. I went back and looked at my vid that I posted the other week and I again realise it is fast :D
Hood
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Hi Hood,
Nice video. I should be able to start cutting on my lathe this coming weekend. I saw on one of your videos where you made a stub axle. I'm after a Gcode file that I can use as a test program for my lathe. Initially, I'll be cutting an acetal style plastic to reduce the possibility of breaking things.
Would it be possible to get hold of your G-code, or of another G-Code program that you think may be a suitable test program? I want to eliminate problems with the setup and coding side of things.
Cheers,
Peter.
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Nice video Hood. Nice rapids and accels will spoil you in a hurry. ;D
Brett
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Peter I would be glad to pass on any code for testing but just wondering how big your lathe is? Mine weighs in around 3 tonnes, the saddle alone weighs about 400Kg and the spindle motor is about 11Kw. If your lathe of a similar size then my code would probably work but it would need edited slightly for spindle speed etc as mine works funny, that would be no problem though :)
If you lathe is smaller then maybe John P would share some code with you as he has a myford and boxford (not sure if the latter is running yet)
Anyway let me know.
Brett
Yes and whats worse is it could also spoil the machine, oh well I suppose you know all about that from the ones at work that you............. ;D
Hood
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Brett,
My lathe is close.
7x14 Asian import, weights about 50Kg I guess.
You could mount it on your cross slide from the sounds of it. :)
Doesn't sound that suitable. I'm sure if I look hard enough I can find G-Code for a test piece.
Cheers,
Peter
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Peter, I could probably mount that in the turret ;D
Ask John Prentice, I am sure he would have some suitable code.
What kind of depths do you reckon you could take off in one pass, maybe the code I have for the pullstud in the video would suit, it is just taking light cuts due to the distance out of the spindle, I think its only taking 1mm DOC for the most part.
Hood
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Here are a couple of pics that might give an idea of the lathes size, the first one is me bringing the lathe home, the trailer its on has a 5m bed length. The second pic is of my Colchester Triumph's 4 way toolpost sitting on top of this lathes toolpost. The Triumph has a centre height of 7.5inch, 50inch between centres so thats probably what you would call a 15x50 lathe. The Computurn is not that much bigger in capacity (21x40) but it is huge in comparison construction wise.
The dia of the boring bar in that pic is 32mm (1 1/4 approx)
Hood
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lol! my taig would look like a gnat on that beast :D Hell, even my 9" south bend would look like a gnat on that beast!
nice pics!
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;D
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Peter, I could probably mount that in the turret ;D
Ask John Prentice, I am sure he would have some suitable code.
What kind of depths do you reckon you could take off in one pass, maybe the code I have for the pullstud in the video would suit, it is just taking light cuts due to the distance out of the spindle, I think its only taking 1mm DOC for the most part.
Hood
Hood,
I'll email John and see if he has anything appropriate. Basically I'm after something about 4" in length with a taper and a thread that is not too fine. This the stub axle.
As to depth of cuts, all I can say is that it is a 7x14. :-)
Cheers,
Peter.
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Peter let me know the dia and I will adapt that file to suit for you.
Hood
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Peter let me know the dia and I will adapt that file to suit for you.
Hood
Hi Hood,
1.5" diameter should be fine.
Cheers,
Peter.
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Peter should also have asked what feeds and speeds you have.
Hood
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Hi Hood,
Spindle speed max is 2800
Max rapid is 7000mm/min
Cheers,
Peter.
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Peter
Will be Thursday before I can do this and test it out on the lathe, I am working away from the workshop at the moment.
Hood
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Hi ,Hood
what are the capacities of your lathe. you know the usual stuff,swing ,spindle bore ,bar feeder,etc,etc.
bill
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Bill
Max swing over bed is 520mm (19.69" approx)
Max swing over saddle is 290mm (11.4" approx)
Max distance between centres is 1000mm (39.4" approx)
Spindle bore is 72mm (2.84" approx)
Max weight in chuck is 280Kg (616lbs approx)
Max Weight in Chuck and Tailstock is 500Kg (1100lbs approx)
Tailstock stroke is 180mm (7" approx)
Tailstock barrel 90mm Dia (3.54" approx)
Tailstock taper Morse taper 5.
Weight without ancilliaries is approx 2750Kg (6050lbs)
Length 3500mm (137.8" approx)
width 2450mm (96.45"approx)
height 2075mm (81.69" approx)
Hood
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Oh and as far as Bar feed, dont have one, the lathe originally had a closed centre hydraulic chuck which was no use for the work I do so I replaced it with a 250mm Dia 6 jaw manual . Always on the lookout for a 250mm- 300mm hydraulic through hole chuck at the right price but not got one yet ;)
Hood
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thanks Hood
that is a lot of good numbers, makes a person think about going shopping.
bill
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:)
The lathe itself cost me £300 ($600 approx) but there were no servo drives with it (my friend got them) Think I have probably spent in the region of £1000 ($2000) on the lathe including the original purchase. I have now just got a BIG servo motor and drive that I hope to put on the spindle so that will add another £500 but it will be worth it if it works :)
Hood
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This is the motor, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250276403349&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=015
it is 12.5Kw, 83Nm (735 lbs in ) continuous torque 152.5Nm (1350 Lbs in) peak.
Hood
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Peter
Have attached a file for a similar stub shaft to the one I did earlier except just quite a bit smaller. I have made it with a DOC of 1mm for the roughing which should be fine for your lathe. The speeds and feeds should also be fine for you if you are using carbide, I have noted in the code the tools that I used. I ran the code on the lathe here with 38mm dia EN24 and have taken a pic with the phone but will have to wait until I get home to download. It probably wont be worth seeing as the phone camera is not that great :( Oh and the thread is M10
Hood
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Here is a blurry pic taken with the phone but at least it shows the code works.
Hood
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Hood, may I ask what version of Mach 3 Turn are you running?
Thanks,
Dave
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Yes you may :)
Hood
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Sorry couldnt resist, at the moment I am using 3.042.005, I would however advise against using it unless you feel like being a guinea pig, it has a lot of changes in the way it works and there may well still be some undesireable bugs.
Hood
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Funny stuff there, chief - ;)
What would you recommend being the most stable yet up to date version of Mach 3 Turn?
Thanks,
Dave
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I dont know really, dont think there have been any Turn specific changes since way back (1.74 I think) so I suppose the lockdown will be fine. The latest ones once finished will make a big difference in the way VB works within Mach so it will be an advantage to use them but only after all the bugs have been ironed out.
Hood
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ok, I'll have to do some checking because I'm soon ready to set up my little taig lathe.
Thanks- :)
Dave
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Peter
Have attached a file for a similar stub shaft to the one I did earlier except just quite a bit smaller. I have made it with a DOC of 1mm for the roughing which should be fine for your lathe. The speeds and feeds should also be fine for you if you are using carbide, I have noted in the code the tools that I used. I ran the code on the lathe here with 38mm dia EN24 and have taken a pic with the phone but will have to wait until I get home to download. It probably wont be worth seeing as the phone camera is not that great :( Oh and the thread is M10
Hood
Hi Hood,
thanks for that. I'll let you know how I go. I'm off to China next week, so it may have to wait until after that, depends on how busy the weekend gets.
Cheers,
peter.
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Hi Hood,
thanks for that. I'll let you know how I go. I'm off to China next week, so it may have to wait until after that, depends on how busy the weekend gets.
Cheers,
peter.
You are a week or two to late Peter, the olympics finished last week, then again the Chris Hoy is back home in Scotland now so you Aussie cyclists might not feel so bad ;)
Have a good trip.
Hood
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has the spindle encoder input been activated yet?
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Sort of but not as a general release. The beta plugin I have been testing can read an index pulse, whether that is from a single opto switch or the Index pulse from an encoder. The full encoder input is not done yet and I think Greg is working on that now. The Beta plugin requires the latest version of Mach which again is not perfected, its almost there but think there are still some issues with the VB.
Hood
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sounds good, I would be happy with just the index pulse . I am currently using the electronic gearing which smoothe stepper would allow me to get away from .
I am running the latest mach on the lathe and havent noticed any problems, anything I should be watching out for on the lathe?
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You are a week or two to late Peter, the olympics finished last week, then again the Chris Hoy is back home in Scotland now so you Aussie cyclists might not feel so bad ;)
Have a good trip.
Hood
No Not really. I'm going to the Paralympics. They start on the 6th September. I'm going there to accept an award for my cycling achievements over the past 10 years. :)
http://www.homanndesigns.com/Cycling.html
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The problems with the latest version are all VB related I think, the 005 version seems to have it mostly straightened out and I believe the 006 version which has just been released has a fix for G76. I never had a problem with G76 but seems like a lot did.
Hood
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I kind of figured it would be to do with the paralympics but just thought I would tease you ozzies a bit ;)
Congatulations on the award Peter (http://forums.pcper.com/images/smilies/extras/thumb.gif)
Hood
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Just posting a pic here of 4 threads I have done, 2 with the parallel port at differing kernel speeds and the other two with differing versions of the SmoothStepper plugin I am testing. As can be seen all 4 threads are excellent, they are 140mm long 2mm pitch.
Hood
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Those look like hell, is that the best you can do? ;) :D
Dave
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Those look like hell, is that the best you can do? ;) :D
Dave
Afraid so, maybe if I had used better steel rather than crappy mild steel they would have come out better :) Actually I ran out of mild steel and had to use a bit of EN24T, its the second bottom one, bit more shiny :)
The losest one shows that at 45KHz the withdrawal is not perfect for me for some reason, the last few threads are grouped together, the 35KHz kernel and the two SmoothStepper ones have a nice clean withdrawal though.
Hood
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Hood,
The bottom sample in your pic.
What did you use for the "L" word in your G76 and what RPM did you run ?
RC
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Russ
L0 in all of them, in fact they all used exactly the same code with the exception of the 35KHz test in which I had to drop the speed as the axis couldnt do 2mm/rev due to the reduced velocity possible at that kernel.
Top 2 on SS and the lower one on PP @45KHz were 1000RPM and the third down was 35KHz kernel on PP at 710RPM
Hood
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Hmmmm...interesting.
I remember when Graham and Brian changed the L to Angle of rotation instead of angle to the X axis.
Maybe L360 would work better for you ? Maybe not.
360-720 works best here.
RC
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Thanks Russ, seem to remember discussions about that now you mention it, thing is though the retract is perfect on the SmoothStepper threads and also on the one done at 35KHz on the PP. Previous to the last couple of versions of Mach my retract was also perfect at 45K so for some reason its something new thats just crept in for me.
I am not particularily bothered about it as I dont think I will be using the PP for much anymore, the SS is just too good :) It would be nice to know what is causing it just in case others get the problem.
Hood
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Here's the topic where I asked Graham about the angle: http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,5250.0.html
Also, if you enter L0, then theoretically the tool would retract instantly leaving no transition from the full depth of the thread to the OD of the stock. A "Step" if you will. Of course this is not possible but can you tell approximately what degree of rotation the retraction takes place with the SS ? Just curious as I hope to set mine up soon.
Thanks,
RC
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Not really sure Russ, have turned the threads off now but next one I do I will take a note for you.
That thread was interesting and makes me wonder if previously I had been using the old macro and now with the new one its acting differently. Will set up my L to a few different numbers and see.
Hood