Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 03:13:23 PM

Title: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 03:13:23 PM
About a week ago I had a couple glitches with the spindle starting and then stopping for a few seconds and then it would continue to run and then stay running. Today I went to start the machine,  I get movement with my X,Yand Z axis's but the spindle wont start. The machine ran yesterday without a problem for 4-5 hrs. continuous.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 08, 2008, 03:23:28 PM
What type of spindle motor ? How is it controlled? Relays? Speed Controller? as much info as possible please


Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 03:33:22 PM
Thanks Hood,
It is a 6 Hp high freq motor, it is controlled by a speed controller. I have double checked all of my pin settings and did a setting restore. and no help. I also disconnected the 4 prong connector at the top of the motor, I turned the speed controller on and I did not have any voltage at any of the pins.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 08, 2008, 04:34:37 PM
Check to see if the speed controller is getting the signal from Mach, would think you will see a voltage of some sort depending on how its connected to the parallel port.
Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 04:38:56 PM
I can move my X,Y and Z axis's, but no motor.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 08, 2008, 04:40:49 PM
Yes but could it be that your speed control is dead, you need to make sure that the signal from Mach is getting to the controller, if it is then the controller is dead.
Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 04:48:58 PM
How do I check that ?
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 08, 2008, 04:59:56 PM
Not sure, how is it connected to your speed controller? do you use PWM? If so then remove the wire to the speed controller and put a voltmeter n it and ground and see if there is a voltage when you signal the spindle to move.
Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 05:15:16 PM
I disconnected the 4 prong plug at the top of the motor and put a volt meter on all 4 prongs and turned the spindle on and I did'nt get any readings.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 08, 2008, 05:20:05 PM
Where is the speed controller in relation to that plug> Do you know what kind of controller it is? Which pin does the speed control use in Mach?
Please attach your xml file for the profile you are using. You will need to copy it to the desktop and rename it BWP.xml
Hood

Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 05:36:41 PM
The plug is llocated at the side of the controller and then runs thru the drag link belts to the motor. settings included
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 08, 2008, 06:46:58 PM
The wire that you need to test goes from the computer to the speed controller, it is the Input side of the controller you need to see if there is a signal, not the output side. The xml you sent has no spindle settings as such, possibly it is the wrong one you sent. Right clcik on the Icon you start Mach with and choose properties, look at the name of the target, the last bit is the name of the xml you need to attach.
Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 06:58:06 PM
wil do.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 07:31:30 PM
Hood
 Here is that file agan.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 08, 2008, 07:40:57 PM
Afraid that is definitely not it as there are no pins set for anything, not even axis.
Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 07:46:32 PM
I will try again
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 08, 2008, 07:57:46 PM
OK, will have to look in the morning as its 1AM here and I need sleep. Maybe someone else will help you out while I am sleeping :)

Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 08, 2008, 07:59:19 PM
Thanks Much
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 11:16:49 AM
Here are photos of the controller.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 12:03:36 PM
Here are a few more photos. If anyone has any ideas please chime in. My shop has been at a stand still since Thurs. afternoon.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 12:04:45 PM
More photos
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Chip on August 09, 2008, 03:27:06 PM
Hi, BWP

Will the spindle run with the toggle switch by the motor vfd control, I have one very similar to this and the spindle isn't controlled by Mach, But it can be.

The SW's they use are cheep, Already had one go bad, Spin on/off is 5 volt logic, Gnd or Open, on/off.

Looks like theres power to the vfd, Probably just a bad SW. Motor is 3 Phase, Water cooled.I'd think.

In your pic of the BOB, I see the step & dir wires and Limit X, Y, Z wires, But no Spindle ON/Off wires. ?

The switch's beside the motor control, Power to Steppers, Power to Spindle Vfd, Spindle On/Off. ?

Chip
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 03:53:09 PM
Thanks Chip.

The motor will not run by using the switch. Since , I have removed the speed control and found that the fan inside is not running, on initial start up I got a " F100H " message before it showed Mhz. I also get a little shock when I hold the speed control in my hand and touch the machine, wich tells me something has shotred out, maybe the fan.  P.S. I am a little new to CNC and I am not too sure what some of the abreviations mean.  Thanks Greg
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 09, 2008, 03:57:12 PM
Sorry BWP been away most of the day :(
 How did you normally control the spindle? ie did you actually command a speed from G Code or did you use the pot on the front of the VFD?
Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 04:12:30 PM
No, I use the speed control and the switches on the orange box. Photos on page 2

 I tested my converter switch,(continuity tester) it has 4 tabs on the back 2 on top 2 on the bottom. Left side read good on-off, the other side read like the switch was on all the time even when turned in the off position.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 09, 2008, 04:19:48 PM
OK so speed had  nothing to do with Mach? Did you control the spindle On Off and  direction from Mach or was that also from the switch and panel?


Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 04:26:26 PM
speed for motor has nothing to do with Mach, the on - offf is the switch on the panel. Just movement of the 3 axis's is controlled by Mach.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 09, 2008, 04:35:48 PM
OK so your problem has to be the VFD itself or the wiring to it or the spindle motor. I am guessing the switch to the VFD is OK as the VFD is switched on. You say the fan is not working on the VFD so that may be the cause of the VFD not working, it is quite likely that the VFD has a safety cutout if the fan is faulty so that it wont oerheat.
 Do you have a manual for the VFD? It should tell you what the F100H message means.

Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 04:41:41 PM
No , I dont have a manual for any of the items on the machine, By the way what does VFD stand for? I get a shock when I hold the VFD in my hand and touch the machine.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 09, 2008, 04:45:48 PM
Variable Frequency Drive, often called an inverter as well.
 If you are getting a shock then it certainly looks like the VFD is brocken in some way, make sure its not just a wire that has come loose, especially a  neutral. Are there any makers name or model numbers on the VFD?
Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Chip on August 09, 2008, 04:46:14 PM
Hi, BWP

You need to be careful some of those machines didn't have a proper "Grounding".

Your spindle motor control is a single phase to 3 phase, Variable Frequency Drive "VFD".

The Board on the door is a Brake Out Board "BOB".

Post the Part Number and other info on the motor control "VFD", I may have a Book on it in a PDF file.

If you live in the US, PM your Phone # (Click on my user name), I'll give you a call, Do you use Skype (Internet Phone)

Chip
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 04:48:30 PM
It is a chinese version of the Teco FM-50, I checked all the wires and they look to be ok.
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 09, 2008, 05:07:07 PM
Just had a look at the Teco FM-50 manual and the codes only go to 30 from what I see so not much help there. If the wiring looks correct then I would be very careful as it looks like there may be an internal breakdown which is shorting to ground. Best bet is to get another VFD but phone Chip and see if he has any info as by the sounds of it he recognises the machine in question.
Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: BWP on August 09, 2008, 06:01:59 PM
I found the problem............. No ground and there was a wire that was connected into the VFD but it was no tighted down. Put it back together and the spindle runs.
I would like to thank all of you for helping me solve my problem, especially Hood and Chip. Thank You Very Much Gentlemen.
Greg
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Hood on August 09, 2008, 06:06:58 PM
Glad you are sorted, I should have asked more questions at the beginning as I was thinking the problem was you had a speed controller that connected to Mach at one end and a VFD at the other. If I had asked these questions then you probably would have found the problem sooner.
At least you are sorted now and thats the main thing, now go catch up on your work :D

Hood
Title: Re: Spindle start up problem
Post by: Chip on August 09, 2008, 07:09:35 PM
Hi, Greg

Hears a Manual for your Drive, DZB 100 series, It's a little older than your exact drive DZB 100H0022H2DK.

Good to hear you got it going.

Thanks, Chip