Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Cosha on June 18, 2008, 04:51:52 PM
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hello all thanks for reading this...
ok my understanding of all this is new to me so bear with my non tec terms lol!
ok so im running mach3, i got my motors to move perfectly everything set up no problem
now i rebooted my stand alone windows 2000 pc with only mach3 on it and the motors wont move, everything is working as it should mach says the motors are moving but the very starnge this in that the stepper motors sound as if there moving but they actualy dont!
loss of power? im not sure? i have tried quite a few things but i know its going to be some little setting somewhere i have missed.
ports and pins are 3,2 5,4 7,6 and all port 1
and that is as much as i can say? ox378 port, 25hx kernell etcs nothing else selected any ideas?
i have spent 5 months building this baby and now its not working and im heartbroken!
cheers
cosha
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Check that the tuning has not changed.
When you say they sound as if they are moving, is it a normal sound or is it a sort of whining sound?
Hood
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its the same sound it makes when it was working normaly! i have tried the motor tuning, just more higher pitched revs, i could understand if it was just one of thm but its all 3...
im totaly baffled
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Close Mach down and go to the Mach3 folder and run the DriveTest.exe and see what the result is.
Hood
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Also, check to see if Jog in enabled. Can toggel it on and off on the program run screen. Sounds like it is though if the motors are makeing noise.
Brett
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ok when i have done the motor test what am i loooking for?
cheers
cosha
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well the test did its thing and nothing lol
so anyway, i just put the ports and pin modes into "max NC-10 wave" mode and the motors turn but not correctly, bothe the x and z axis move together im guessing this would be for a wire cutter i dunno?
but at least i know my motors work fine
im really buggered now
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You dont want MaxNC mode unless thats the type of machine you have. You might want to try Sherline mode however as that increases the pulse length to your drives, some drives need it.
What did your DriveTest look like? it should be fairly smooth and shouldn't have any huge spikes.
Hood
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hi hood, it was ok few little spikes so i adjusted the motors and it tests ok
the most bloody anyoying thing is i was messing around not doing much and then it worked fine no problems except the z would on go one direction no matter what way i jogged it! mad!
the ports and pins i use this code
3,2
5,4
7,6 and all on port 1
the otherway around and it doesnt work, i have already tried to delete the programm and re load it still the same
could it be a faulty servo boards? i hope not because it works in different modes
i have followed all the mach3 trouble shooting set everything up the way it has told me im fresh out of ideas?
is there a way i could load into mach 3 another operator from somone that loads everything correctly?
i just cant get my head around it
thanks for all your help tho
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this is what im using
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Check to see that the Dir pin for the Z axis is connected properly, if its not then it will always just jog in one direction.
Hood
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just checked on that, now corrected, i still get the motor turning noise, it jogs sometimes very small amounds if i help it turn with my hand
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Please attach your xml and I will have a look through it and see if that side looks all right. To attach your xml you will need to rename it for the forum to accept. Go to the Mach3 folder and copy the Mach3Mill.xml to your desktop, rename it to Cosha.xml and then use the full reply form and aditional options to attach it.
Hood
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here it is,
note: i have re installed mach3 and the update, have not tinkered with the e-stop or any other functions i just want to get it to jog
thanks for all your time hood
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I notice you are set up in inches, also you have 2000 steps per inch, what type of drives do you have and what is the pitch of your ballscrews?
Hood
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that was changed, like i sed i ony reinstalled it to see if i could get it to jog, i got the whole lot from merchandice, right handed proper ballscrews but pitch im not sure of, i was going to use the in build MPG in mach to set all that up. i only wanted to get it to jog. have u ever come across this befor? i know i must sound really thick, but i have tried to do everything the correct way, and the stepper motors make the same noise when they turn, but not a thing then a few times they have worked perfectly?
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Without hearing the sound of the motors I cant say but sounds to me like you are missing steps due to acell being too high, turn it to a minimum and asee if the motors pick up speed slowly and continue to rotate.
Hood
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i put motors vel and acl to minimum and still get the same low rpm noise and still no movement, i think its a total loss i have no idea why it wont work. i never built the cnc controller it came built
i dont know what else to try u have been great tho!
dare i say try with another cnc software?
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Cosha, it isn't the software, it's a configuration issue that you will face with any. Your in good hands here are sure to get sorted.
Brett
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Hi, Cosha
There are a couple of other items to check, Dir & Step Low Actives and that Mach is sending Pulses Long Enough for your Boards to See them.
Try these XML's, Let me now if ether one works and if one works better than the other.
If the Directions need changing use "Reversed" in Config, Homes & Limits to change the direction.
When we get it moving, Then a tune-up and calibration.
Let us Now, Chip
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Lets get a bit back to basics here. I see your motors are 6 wire. Have you got special drives to run 6 wire motors, or have you modified them to run in Bi-Polar mode with a standard drive. I saw the picture of the box - but it didn't help - what are these 3D and 4D cards they are talking about.
Your basic problem seems to be a drive problem to the motors. Rather like you have well under-estimated the number of pulses per unit on the motor settings page. For instance mine is 60,000 and most will be above 20,000 - what is yours set at. Forget the speed and acceleration for now. If you don't get the steps per unit right the thing won't work as you expect.
If your computer and everything is new, then this is a configuration problem, unless you have been really stupid and something has gone bang.
Give us details of the connections - computer - to break-out board - to drives - to motors. We have seen the motors - what about the rest.
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thanks for all your help so far guys,
as i sed the motors are on low as i totaly re installed mach3 and just did a quick set up to get the motors to jog, i have had it working 100% perfect with everything i have got now, last night i had it working and then for some reason its doing this motor sound but no action thing!
the board is 3x2.1 Amp drivers and the motors are shown below, and that is as much info i have on them, i brought them together nd the motors were set up for the drivers!
i just dont understand how it can work perfect for 10 mins then stop again!
ill try both the xml. files tonight when im home from work, do i just delete the mach3 mill one and back it up and drop these in place one at a time?
5pin din connections
windows 2000 running mach3 - nothing else on it but this programme
connected via parral port 0x378
2.1 amp drivers
and then thats all i know sorry
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sorry chip me beingdaft, just remember to drop the files into mach3 then select them in the mach loader!
silly me!
ill try then tonight
thanks again
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just tried botht heCk and X files you sent me, both did the same thing, very low noise
if i help the motor spindle turn round it does a perfect one revolution and then stops and jams again but the noise continues!
would it help if i posted a video somehow?
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here is a quick video i did to show you what i have done.
not there is some high pitch vibrating noise on one axis, this is just from loosening the motor to see if it was binding and its a few washers clattering together!
also not this was just done on another re-install, and i have also re botted mach3 everytime i have changed something too.
i have tried to explane the very best i can but i still think im not winning atall. i have looked on the internet high and low for the information pdf of the stepper boards i have etc... but cant find nothing!
im assuming my port and pin numbers are ok as they have worked fine in the past. as u can see i have just finished my machine and reconnected the motors and now i have stipped it down to the bear bones and taken off a motor to show you close up i hope!
i hope this helps
thanks again please dont give up on me, its taken me 6 months to get this far
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Cosha1984/th_Ghillie002.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Cosha1984/?action=view¤t=Ghillie002.flv)
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Yo,
As Hood suggested previously- Try the SHERLINE 1/2 Pulse mode!!!! It seems from the video that your drives are either not seeing the pulses OR you have a motor wiring problem somewhere.
Your motors say they can run in 2 Dif modes- Bi Polar or Uni Polar. The way you wire them determines this. Currently you have 6 wires coming out of your motors but if you look at the connectors there are only 4 pins. That means that somehwere inside there wires are tied together. Are the correct wires tied together in order to run correctly with your drives??? Hmmmmmm this is a BIG question.
As Jim asked you previously- You really need to find out more info regarding the type of motor drives you are running.
Who makes them?
What are the specs?
Can you see how many output terminals there are on them?
How about a pic of the motor drives?
HTH,
Sid
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thanks for the reply, i never wired up the motors or the controller, i have had the motors working fine in mach everything worked properly the speed was correct the distance was correct, the direction was correct, all i did was shut down and 2 days later re boot to check one of the spindles and now im faced with this problem, i have emailed the person i got them from and no reply just yet
have tried the 1/2 pulse mode i have tried every combo, the annoying thing it has been working perfect for the last 3 weeks and now it not doing much!
im still on the hunt for all the information i promise you that
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Are you confident enough to use a voltmeter and I suppose I should ask if you have one? What you need to do is check the DC voltage going to your drives from your power supply, it kind of seems like there may be very little voltage there. Be carefull though if you are not conversant with electricity as there will be a fairly big capacitor in your power supply which can store quite a charge of electricity and should you touch the terminals with your fingers you could do serious damage to yourself.
Hood
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thank-god, my mum just pulled out the whole information sheets that i thought she shredded 5 months ago
ok its made by damen cnc ready to run kit i just quickly red that the yellow led on each stepper board means its in sleep active meaning much less power and torque
i might be gettin somwhere here you know....
how the hell do i turn that of now im wondering.
could this be it??
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Yes that would do it I think, most drives will be automatic for that setting so it should come to full power when an axis is moved. Read the docs thouroughly as there may be a way of switching it by an input.
Hood
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this is from the manual....
sleep mode
the driver has the ability to reduce the current to the driver, this is when the motors sit still for some time, this saves power and will keep the drivers cooler
3 sleep modes
no sleep mode -
leave the sleep input unconnected or connect to vcc
automatic current reduction -
connect input to gnd, do not use this in case of more than 1 axis!. 1-2 secs after last step current reduced to 25% next step signal full current will be set
software sleep mode
the sleep input in connected to gnd via the software when all axis are sationary. the sleep mode is activated within 1 sec, this function in controlled with pin 17 of the lpt port using the standard interface
so looks like in max i have to change the 17 pin to active summin...?
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ok so i have 4amp bipolar stepper motor drivers
i also have the schemetic drawings
10 pole connector
1 n/a
2 step signal
3 n/a
4 ccw turn direction
5 emergancy stop
6 sleep (current reduction 25% of set current) low active ???????????????????????
7,8 vcc +5v
9,10 gnd
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another note it says
when adjusting the motor current make sure the sleep mode is off, if the current is adjusted while the driver is in sleep mode there is a high chance of the driver will be over loaded
well i havent changed any jumpers inside the boards, nor have i changed the vcc
am im close?
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Seems like an easy way to test if it's the sleep thing is to remove the wire going into 6 on one of the drives and see if that disables the sleep feature?
Sid
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Hi, Cosha
I checked there web site, Not much info there, Sad to say.
It should be an enable pin or jumper in you paperwork.
Change the state Active Low
Chip
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GOD thank Fudge for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you soo soo soo much Chip & Hood! perfect now, i changed the jumper on the driver boards so the motors only activate sleep mode when no pulse is sent out but then resumes when input is givin then i changed port 17 to active!
turns out that the sleep function was always on and he had it connected to VCC the wrong way, i put the port over my meter and it was reading 1.2v the wrong way and then went back into the 5v Vcc no wonder!
thank god i found the paper work! oh well lesson learnt that this could be a problem!!!
no really guys i thank you so much to everyone that helped me with this, just think how long it would of taken me to find that out with out no pictures or your support!
tomorrow i cant wait to fit it all back together and finish off my motor mount and actualy do some cutting!
6 months and i might actualy get a cut!!!
thank you thank you so much really thanks!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Great things are sorted :)
Hood