Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach Screens => Topic started by: zealous on May 20, 2006, 05:36:36 AM
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Thought I'd share an idea about using gauges with the other screen designers.
The gauge can illuminate diffrent color hues depending on a on/off state,
they can also have a needle that can switch to display on/off.
I am also intrested in using gauges to display speed/feed like a car speedometer as well.
The screen that incorporates this idea will be ready in a few weeks to a month along with two others(I currently have a big project that I must finish within the next few weeks, so I have little time to work on the new screens as of now :-\).
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Very nice zealouse, look forward to the finished screen.
Hood
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Cool concept indeed. I wish i had of thought of that.
This concept will really rattle the traditionalists. :)
BTW, what picture editor do you use?
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Ynneb, I use Firework, 3D Max and a little Adobe. :)
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Here is a "Feed Rate" gauge.
I believe this could be usefull if I can get the needle to rotate to a spindle speed or Feed speed. Any idea's, maybe for Artsoft's future projects. ;D
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Ynneb is Benny from now on, and just for your interest zealous, we had a discussion in another thread about Flash hooking into Mach. well it appears we will be able to do this real soon. Here is what Art wrote on the yahoo forum. I recon between you me and a few others we will be able to do some amazing stuff.
Hi Guys:
Ive read it all. Havent quite digested it all , but it will all settle in
in a few days. When traveling, I consider my options. (I dont travel much
anymore. Here's what Ive decided..)
MachIV will no longer be made as a separate program. I needed the
bifurcation while developing, but I dont think I need it any longer. It
occured to me how to fix all this and Ive been puzzlingover it for a long
time. It always been a question of protocol. How best to add more optional
devices has always been the problem.
Since the MachIV code seems to be working fairly well, though still buggy
and incomplete.. I think its time to spin it off to a DLL. Since I intend to
do this, the DLL I spin off will become a framwork for developers to "do
their own device".
The DLL code will be structured to allow it to tell Mach3 as it starts up,
what device characteristics it has. I will continue to keep the printer port
internal to Mach, but other devices will be selected from a menu of device
dll's found. I will add .h files for all Mach3 internals to the DLL and hook
all output and internal fucntions of Mach3 though that DLL.
The DLL will be able to (within constraints) setup various timing
relationships within Mach. It will be a passed pointers to the movement
blocks Mach needs done. This information will be in the form of a buffer of
structures which will give expected movement positions, velocity and
acceleration from point to point. These moves , since there is no standard
for this, will be in the form of an expected move in a set number of ms with
acceleration information and positional information on a per move basis. The
source for these will be available as a Mach3SDK and wil allow any language
capable of DLL creation to take over output completely. The first DLL, will
be mine and will control the G100. Simply adding another DLL will than allow
a user to select that DLL as an output option, and the developer will then
be able to intercept Mach3's internal calls to deal effectively with the
output. While I will include a "Blank DLL" that will basically pass control
back to Mach3, I will probably publish the G100 DLL as a freely modifiable
opensource project for those who wish to use it as a tutorial or modify it
for special purposes to do so. Power can quikly be added then for developers
to do as much as they wish.
This means if you design motor drivers, USB devices, or simply wish to
leave Mach3 to drive a printer port, you will still be able to do things
such as grab a video window buffer to do things with video, or just drive
motors as a function of your mathmatics. The DLL will be able to do as much
or as little as it wants. It will be a standard "open source" developers
hook. It will hav eaccess to Serial Control buffers, movement routines, and
the complete Ring0 driver parameters, IT will be able to take control down
to a single printer port pulse if desired. This is not alot of work, it is
bascially just opening up the entire class base of all functional blocks to
developers and programmers. It shoudlnt matter if you use C#, VB, or C++, or
what compiler you use, as long as you use the properheaders, (I thnk) all
fucntions will open up. As a DLL, the system shoudl allow total integration
to Mach3's internal fcunationallity. It will be possibel , for example, if
you return False to a config call like
bool OpenScreen()
and Mach3 will not open a screen. This woudl allow the DLL to run Mach3 in
the background and be controlled from a separate applciation, Mach will
check with the DLL before even starting up its drivers. The "Blank" dll will
simply give permision to MAch to open normally by returning "true" to that
call...
Since I need to redo the G100 code for the upcoming firmware, this seems
to me the way to go. It allows an unprecendented level of control, and
literally gives any programmer a fully operative front end for creation of
many program types. It doesn't create a huge delay for me in development,
and the end result is probably a much more robust way of developing. It also
allows anyone of the "Open Source" mindset , to modify or add devices or
code at will. The only bone of contention I can see is a possible argument
as to the movement buffer that will be passed. Certain systemic constraints
exist for that, but Ill see what can be arranged. Theres alot of information
that can be used by programmers. I have no problem giving the hooks to
pretty much all the hundreds of system calls Mach3 uses.
Comments welcome on the approach.. This will happen pretty quickly, the
blank shoudl be trivial, then the G100 version of the blank will apear as I
clean up the G100 interface and allow a "Device selection" capability in the
ports & Pins config..
This means that MachIV will no longer be necesary, you'll just select a
G100 as the output device.
Thanks,
Art
www.artofcnc.ca
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Benny,
I'm a little slow, Ynneb is Benny backwards ::)
I'm very much looking forward to these new developments, the new interface will be amazing :o
Thanks for pushing for these new enhancements.
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Zealouse, just a whole hearted "thumbs-up" to those great guages! I can't wait to see a full dashboard of needles rockin' back and forth on my super-modified Mach 3 screen! Rock- On! Glenn
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These look very cool......
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Cool concept indeed. I wish i had of thought of that.
This concept will really rattle the traditionalists. :)
Benny, the opinions of some, including myself on occasions ;) Is not about being traditionalists at all. What I have noticed is that these opinions virtually always come from those with a lot of CNC experience and a good handle on whats really necessary.
The science of ergonomics comes into play a lot with the design of cnc machine tools. In fact it's vital that the person operating the machine can see at a glance whats going on.
If the user wishes to treat a cnc machine as a toy thats fine by me, as long as that user doesn't ever whine that they got confused ;) My needs are different.
I do admire some of graphical talent shown in here, I'd admire it even more if they took some time to understand the reasons why real world controls are laid out the way they are.
But back onto the subject of meters, these are common place on realworld controls for things like Spindle load and speed etc. More often they are analogue meters. But Heidenhain and Mazatrol controls have had moving bar (VU type meters) on screen for years.
Wayne...
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Wayne, I have stated many times, that my aim is not to do things for prettyness sake, but to make things more easy to identify by groups and appearance. If at the same time you can make it look good the all the better.
My comment about traditionalists is more about that they cant understand that if something isnt grey, it isnt good. Lets face it, if we all had cars that were only useful, but had no prettyness about them, then life would be quite boring, and we might as well all drive around in the one style car.
Many of my screens may not be every ones taste, but they are proof of concept and have inspired others to go out and do better than mine.
Just by doing screens has bought in a lot of changes that make mach a better program. I know of quite a few things that have been implemented as a re********* of my hassling, of recent sliders has now been intrduced too. The fallout from pushing the limits a bit, actuall gives even the traditionalists a better program, not that they would know it, admit it, or even observe it.
The science of ergonomics as you put it, is an evolving science, and something we must keep experimenting with, in order to build upon our existing knowledge.
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Thank you for the encouragement and feedback. I hope that very soon I'll have these gauges up and running.
Wayne,
That's a great idea!!!
Recreate "Real World" machine interface layout for Mach 3/4.
If someone was trained using a Hass, Bridgeport, Heidenhain and Mazatrol they would have the same interface when using Mach 3. I like the way you think 8)
When Art comes out with the new -Mach 4 Developers Edition Extreme-(good name for it ;D), I hope to create interfaces that look and feel like real world interfaces(with added bonuses).
I run a cnc machine daily and have been around machines since I was a kid, sweeping up the metal shavings at my fathers work. I'll continue to fumble around with new ideas to make the CNC machining environment safer and more user friendly. I might stumble onto some good idea's along the way :)
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Wayne,
That's a great idea!!!
Recreate "Real World" machine interface layout for Mach 3/4.
If someone was trained using a Hass, Bridgeport, Heidenhain and Mazatrol they would have the same interface when using Mach 3. I like the way you think 8)
Well I wasn't quite saying clone them, but that is often done on some of the controls designed for education, especially from companies like Denford and Boxford here in the UK. They use personality modules which make the machines look and feel like the "big boys" controls.
What I like about some of the screens shown here recently is the clarity provided by the use of some colours etc, this is only marred by the clutter due to them being based on the original screensets.
Other issues are more serious, and appear in the originals. an example is the ability to rezero any axis while the machine is RUNNING! actually pressing that zero button would almost certainly cause a disaster.
I think the only way out of this is to have a hierarchical screen system, where the run screen is nested such that it cannot be possible to access the other screens without stopping the program. I think Steve Blackmore used something like this on his turn screens for the same reason.
Anyway food for thought.
Wayne...
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How can you zero when the mill is running? I cant do that by trying to zero and axis. Granted it could be done if the program is halted such as for tool change or in hold but while actually running I dont think so.
Hood
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Hood..
Oh yes it does. It will finish the current block then BANG the axis relocates to the new coord.
Art may or may not have addresses this yet. I did mention it at least a month ago, and this was his reply
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Hi Wayne:
Mach3 does not do too much handholding in terms of doing something crasy
like zeroing while running, Steve put alot of thought into the turn screens
to make them idiot-proof, but since Mill is my development test tool, I have
never made it completly idiot proof. (Else I woudlnt be able to use it.. :)
Ill not the zeroing buttons though and stick a safety in there.. (Thanks).
I usually do this one control at a time as the problem is noted..
Thanks,
Art
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Well must have done as when I just tried this a minute ago(after I first saw you mention it) it carried on but an error message popped up saying no Zero while running.
Hood
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which version you running hood? I'm not out in the workshop now so can't check. I'd expect the lockdown versions still have this "feature"!
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im using 1.90.038, will go and load1.84 and see.
Hood
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Just loaded 1.84 and it does indeed zero while running, but TBH what kind of idiot would do that, BTW how did you find out it would do this ;)
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BTW please note that there is a ;) in my previous post.
Hood
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hood... I only run large real industrial machines and was deliberately looking for machs vices!
Although I've been watching machs development for a long time, we have only just started to implement it. Prior to that I ran Ahha systems.
Wayne...
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LOL
I was just pulling your leg. I often do stupid things like that on the home computer just to see what will happen but wouldnt dare do anything like that on the actual mill. I am new to CNC so have a great deal to learn but its amazing howmuch I have learned in the last year. Still doing stupid things, snapped 3x 6mm carbides today :( still dont know why they snapped as I thought I was pretty conservative on my feeds but I suppose I wasnt.
Hood
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6mm carbides. tough call on a series one! in al alloy i'd be running at 6k on the spindle maybe more. Small cutters are apain on machines with slower spindles.
I know you were tryin to pull my leg ;) I was also serious about looking for vices. My other pet hate is the so called "stop" button on the screen.
Wayne...
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Wayne was running spindle at 1500, feedrate 33mm/min and depth of 2mm, this was in 316, stepped up to an 8mm with feed of 60 and it breezed through it.
Why the problem with the stop button? TBH I am usually closer to the e-stop but if I am at the screen and something is going wrong I can whack the stop on the screen and it will stop.
Hood
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Hood.
Ah lovely 316! I turn tons of that stuff. What carbide cutters you using? You really do need good cutters, some of the unbranded stuff around these days are not that good. Most stainless steels you need to keep the pressure on, if the cutters not working hard enough the material can work harden.
I should of said "reset" button ;)
Normally, most machines do have a reset or shotbolt release control, which is how I think that button should behave. ie just to intialise the program and enable drives etc.
It actually behaves more like an E-stop, with the problems that go with that. I have a feeling that if it's used to stop a program then lost steps are likely, and I'm led to believe it screws up or resets any work offsets, but I've not verified that yet.
Wayne...
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Most of my work is with 316 in the lathe as well, I love it. Have never done 316 on the mill before under CNC so that is new to me but think you are probably right about the quality of cutter. I ended up using a Sandvik 8mm 4fl on the stainless yesterday and it just breezed through it. I am frightened of pushing things too hard with the CNC but I am getting braver :) I see a big difference in the rigidity of of my Series1 CNC compared to the manual mill I converted and am starting to take some meatier cuts LOL
Dont know enough about CNC to give my opinion on the Reset button but basically I use it as an e-stop, whether this is right or wrong I dont know.Only other time I use it is after using the Hold button first, not sure if that is the correct procedure or not.
Hood
Edit
Now I am awake I better rewrite what I said about Reset and Stop Button.
I only use the Reset as an E-Stop and the Stop button I only use when a program is running and I want to stop it, but I always press the Hold button before I press the Stop.