Machsupport Forum
G-Code, CAD, and CAM => G-Code, CAD, and CAM discussions => Topic started by: WH33LS on April 01, 2008, 05:15:33 AM
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Hello, back again
Learning how to do welding in school and keeping those grades 90+ takes a lot of time
But i been interested in this Mach3 cnc once again
I was playing around with coding (programming) the other day, and i seen how the object (model) display will get bigger to accomidate the size of the code that was added (didnt realize this before)
I was curious about 2 things.
1. when i was coding, id put in my next destination to the X or Y axis( ex: X -1.850) and the line would go in a totally opposite direct in comparision to my last plot.
for instance .. if i went down 2 , right 2, up 1 and i wanted to go Left 1 (id input half of the distance (1) to go half way, but A) it wouldnt be near half way or it would go in a totaly opposite direct)
1a) i was wondering, is there a visual guide, a graph or something to kind of help indicate the plotting numbers for beginners, similar to a multiplication chart or something, with numbers along the bottom, up the side, so you could estimate your next position, put it in, trial and error to get it perfect?
or are these plotted using measurements on the blueprint? or is this something that is developed over time?
2) i was wondering if there was an easier way to Code using the program itself
I have been editing a TxT file, saving it as Test1 .. loading it, checking my plot, which would be wrong .. edit Test1, save as Test, load test, check plot (kind of time consuming)
Is there a way to imput a plot using the program and being able to see the next plot instantly? (saving time and making guessing/trial and error much faster)
Thanks you very much for any help or assistance. This is something that i WILL eventually learn, just need a little help along the way :)
Thanks again and very much appreciated
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when i was coding, id put in my next destination to the X or Y axis( ex: X -1.850) and the line would go in a totally opposite direct in comparision to my last plot.
Well, the first question that comes to mind is...are you programming in absolute mode or incremental? I think absolute mode is pretty much what everybody uses.
for instance .. if i went down 2 , right 2, up 1 and i wanted to go Left 1
If you were at X 0.0 Y0.0 it would be
y-2.0
x2.0
y-1.0
x1.0
and you would get this in absolute mode....
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In Incremental mode, the same program would look like this
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In Incremental mode, the last position moved, becomes your new X0.0 Y0.0 point. Absolute mode is much more easy on the brain. On my brain it is, anyhow. Think of absolute like the grid on the game Battleship. The points stay where there supposed to and don't change. (unless you tell them to, but this is basic so...crawl before ya walk)
i was wondering, is there a visual guide, a graph or something to kind of help indicate the plotting numbers for beginners, similar to a multiplication chart or something, with numbers along the bottom, up the side, so you could estimate your next position, put it in, trial and error to get it perfect?
Well the first thing that comes to mind for a visual aid is this....
load up the famous roadrunner tap file that comes with mach. ( any file will do, but you hafta load something so mach can scale something to the display.)
Go to the MDI screen. Type in "x0.5" and hit the enter key.( or "x0.5 y.125" or "g90 g01 x1 y-2 f20 t1" or whatever else.) The point on the screen will move for a visual aid for what you just typed. There are simulators out there, but none that are free have ever impressed me. Mach beats them hands down, in my opinion. There are some really nice ones too, but they cost allot of money.
2) i was wondering if there was an easier way to Code using the program itself
If your doing simple shapes and learning, nothing could beat doing it by hand just so that you get the understanding of whats going on. Once you start doing complicated stuff, you will want/need some sort of cad and cam software. When you get that far along, "easier" has gone out the window long ago.
Now a bit of a personal rant......Learning how to do welding in school
I have welded for many years. ITS HOT!!! It's bad on your lungs. Its bad on your nervous system. ITS HOT!!! Its bad on your eyes. Its bad on your skin. Its dirty. Its smelly. ITS HOT!!! Its just plain bad. Don't get me wrong, it is a valuable asset to me. I'm very very very glad I know how. However, doing it for a living is a completely different ballgame (been there, done that). I would HIGHLY advise also learning machining, because you obviously have an interest in it, or you wouldn't be here asking questions. The two do go hand-in-hand on most jobs. I still have to do it now and again, and it is definitely a requirement. I will never forget the words a prior boss told me...Go ahead and quit, I can always find another welder on any street corner. I did quit, and he did find another welder to take my place. Nobody can tell you, "go ahead and quit, I can find another programmer at the drop of a hat" Just food for thought. There are downsides to machining.
1. Vehicle floor mats should be considered a company expense. Kind of like gloves and a pair of greens are for welders.
2. I can be walking from the Kitchen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Miller) to the living room, and like magic, I can get a steel sliver in my foot.
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Hi,
Machines work from a datum point, this can be set anywhere within its working envelope, you can then work in absolute movements or incremental moves.
Absolute (G90) commands work from the datum point to the commanded position.
Incremental (G91) commands work from the current point and move the commanded amount.
E.G. to move in a 2" square using absolute the code would look like this :-
G20 G40
G00 G90 X0 Y0
G01 X2. F10.
Y-2.
X0
Y0
M30
And the same in incremental :-
G20 G40
G00 G90 X0 Y0
G91
G01 X-2. F10.
Y-2.
X2.
Y2.
M30
I hope this helps.
Graham.
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Thanks very much for both the posts, very helpful and much appreciated
Gonna practice making some simple shapes and stuff just to get it figured out, its gonna be pretty neat once i get it all figured out
i'll get it, just need some time :) i taught myself how to model with 3d programs and animate them, this seems kinda similar but much more percise
I was wondering if you could tell me what these plots do
G20 G40 ----- what would these plots do?
G00 G90 X0 Y0 ----- guessing these set the start point, determine incremential or absolute and position x/y at 0
G01 X2. F10. ----- what would these plots do?
Y-2.
X0
Y0
M30 ----- guessing this plot ends the code?
Thanks very much for the help, it really is much appreciated
2 months away from finishing my first year welding, just finished fluxcore today and tomorrow starting Tig, been interested in doing tig for a while, wanna learn how to get those nice clean beads, should be interesting
and yes welding is pretty dirty, although i dont mind getting dirty myself, i have been using a resperator ever since i started, cuts down on the smoke and fume inhalation a lot. People in my class dont wear any resparator with SMAW, GMAW or FCAW, with flux, as im sure you know, theres A lot of smoke. They just breath it on in, not to safe
been burned a few times already, all part of the game i soppose.
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Been practicing some words. one thing im not sure of, would be how to code ,, when the drill would life upwards along the Z axis and move to a new letter or a new start point, then go down on Z axis and continue on course
getting there tho, as you can see, it kinda goes back on itself (wrong way to do it i know)
G20 G40
G00 G90 X0 Y0
G01 X0.25 Y-2 F10.
X0.5 Y-0.5
Y-2 X0.75
X1 Y0
X1.5 Y0
Y-1.75
Y-1 X1.5
Y-1 X2
X2 Y-1.75
X2 Y0
X2.5
Y-1.75
Y-1.75 X3.5
Y-1.75 X2.5
Y-1 X2.5
Y-1 X3
Y-1 X2.5
Y-0.25 X2.5
Y-0.25 X3.5
Y-0.25 X2.5
X2.5 Y0
X4
Y-1.75
Y-1.75 X5
Y-1.75 X4
Y-1 X4
Y-1 X4.5
Y-1 X4
Y-0.25 X4
Y-0.25 X5
Y-0.25 X4
X4 Y0
M30
Thanks for help so far
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The code list that are within mach can be helpful. The manual in the downloads section goes into pretty good detail of any questions you can dream up. They really did a good job with the manual. I certainly did not mean to down you on going to school for welding. I hope I didn't come across that way. If you feel comfortable with 3dsMax, Maya, Rhino, or whatever, you can use those to make designs, and export them to a cam program for g-code creation when you get that far along. Rhino even has a plugin to do the cam portion. Congrats on your first year of school!!
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Thanks
its interesting that something can be modeled and imported into Mach3, that could be very usedful
for now, i got the rapid positioning G00 and linear interpolation G01 kinda figured out, making a code with a 6x 5 box that gets machined out by Z-0.25 depth each time, but the whole box gets smaller by X/Y0.25 each time
I made the mistake of doing the perimeter only and then dropping down to the next level, instead of doing the perimeter and cutting away the whole top, Then moving to next level and repeat, getting the hang of it
Next i need to learn how to use the G02 and G03 circular interpolation (counter/clockwise radius cuts)
i'll post my practice code after and anyone who feels like it could give me some constructive criticism, id appreciate it
Thanks in advance
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finished my first practice code, just trying to wrap my mind around how to use x/y/z axis, here is the code
Next i wanna learn some circular coding and learn how to make code to perfect measurement/scale
Feel free to add some constructive criticism
G20 G40
G00 G90 X0 Y0
G00 Z 0.075 X1 Y-1
G01 Z-0.25 F10.
X6
Y-5
X1
Y-1
X6
Y-1.50
X1
Y-2
X6
Y-2.50
X1
Y-3
X6
Y-3.50
X1
Y-4
X6
Y-4.50
X1
Y-5
X6
G00 Z0.075
X1.25 Y-1.25
G01 Z-0.50
X5.75
Y-4.75
X1.25
Y-1.25
X5.75
Y-1.75
X1.25
Y-2.25
X5.75
Y-2.75
X1.25
Y-3.25
X5.75
Y-3.75
X1.25
Y-4.25
X5.75
Y-4.75
G00 Z0.075
X1.50 Y-1.50
G01 Z-0.75
X5.50
Y-4.50
X1.50
Y-1.50
X5.50
Y-2
X1.50
Y-2.50
X5.50
Y-3
X1.50
Y-3.50
X5.50
Y-4
X1.50
Y-4.50
X5.50
G00 Z0.075
X1.75 Y-1.75
G01 Z-1
X5.25
y-4.25
X1.75
Y-1.75
X5.25
Y-2.25
X1.75
Y-2.75
X5.25
Y-3.25
X1.75
Y-3.75
X5.25
Y-4.25
G00 Z0.075
X2 Y-2
G01 Z-1.25
X5
Y-4
X2
Y-2
X5
Y-2.50
X2
Y-3
X5
Y-3.50
X2
Y-4
X5
G00 Z0.075
X2.25 Y-2.25
G01 Z-1.50
X4.75
Y-3.75
X2.25
Y-2.25
X4.75
Y-2.75
X2.25
Y-3.25
X4.75
Y-3.75
G00 Z0.075
X0 Y0
M30
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Hi this is my 1st post on this site and i am only a newbie myself (1st year fitter machinest) so make sure you double check what i say with somebody else as i may be wrong. But as i have lernt in a hurry is safty margins in programs they are especially handy when running a program for the first time as when your using a mill your playing with big $$$$.
So having said that if i was to write the program you have written it would be somthing like this.
GO G91 G40 G49 G80 G17 G28 ZO ( THIS LINE IS THE FIRST LINE I USE FOR EVERY PROGRAM IT CANCELLS ALL OFF SETS AND MAKES SURE THE SPINDLE ITS AT Z 0 )
T1 M6 H1 ( THIS LINE WILL SELECT YOUR TOOL GIVE THAT TOOL A HEIGHT AND MAKE SURE YOUR USING TOOL 1 (M6 = TOOL CHANGE)
S8000 M3 M8 ( THIS WILL GIVE YOUR TOOL A SPEED, A DIRECTON OF ROTATION AND TURN COOLANT ON)
G20 G40 (YOU SHOULDNT NEED THIS LINE ANYMORE AS IT IS COVERED IN MY FIRST LINE)
G00 G90 X0 Y0 (RAPID IN ABSOLUTE TO THE DATUM POINT)
G00 Z 0.075 X1 Y-1( IN THIS LINE I WOULD STOP AT Z 5.0 AND FEED FROM 5 MM ABOVE THE JOB I WOULD ALSO ADD M1 (WHICH IS OPTIONAL STOP) WHEN PROVING A PROGRAM THIS IS MAY SAVE A TOOL A JOB OR A MACHINE. BY STOPING 5MM ABOVE THE JOB YOUR ALLOWING FOR INCORRECT TOOL HEIGHT)
G01 Z-0.25 F10 (THIS LINE IS GOOD)
AT THE END IT WOULD BE SOMTHING LIKE
G0 Z5.0 (RAPID OUT OF THE JOB TO 5MM ABOVE THE JOB)
M5 M9 (SPINDLE STOP, COOLANT OFF)
G91 G28 YO Z0 (CAHNGE TO INCREMENTAL, REFERANCE POINT RETURN ON Z AND Y AXIS) (ALWAYS RETURN Z FIRST)
G49 (TOOL LENGTH OFFSET CANCEL , PROBERLY NOT NEEDED HERE BUT GOOD PRACTISE)
M 30 ( END PROGRAM PROGRAM RESET)
M30
Everyone has there own programing style and theres no reason why something else wouldnt work just as well as this. I also realize a lot of people dont have tool changers etc but if your trying to learn programing its proberly good practise to put it in. Hope this is helps.
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Excellent , thanks very much for the post, very informative and im sure more then just myself will find it useful
was curious about a few things
"S8000 M3 M8 ( THIS WILL GIVE YOUR TOOL A SPEED, A DIRECTON OF ROTATION AND TURN COOLANT ON) "
how would you set the direction .. M3 ? would be counter / clockwise? (assuming 8000 is the speed and M8 would be coolant on (M9 coolant off))
"G00 Z 0.075 X1 Y-1( IN THIS LINE I WOULD STOP AT Z 5.0"
im guessing that instead of 0.075 i would used 5.0? or does it depend what type of measurement method i use (mm, cm, etc) or is mach3 specifically done using mm measurement?
"G01 Z-0.25 F10 (THIS LINE IS GOOD)"
what would F10 mean?
Again thanks very much for your time for explaining and posting, greatly appreciated and im sure more then just myself is benefitting from it
also curious if you noticed anything wrong with my practice code itself? Thanks again
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As yet i havnt used mach3 but i will be shortly when i finish my mill. Basicly all operating systems use the same codes with a few differance which im not going to go into here.
m4 = unticlockwise rotation
m3= clockwise rotation
m5= spindle stop
S = speed, 8000 would only normally be used in highy speed machining using carbide and coolant unless you have a small diamater tool
evrything i do is in mm ( im in Australia) but they still use imperial measurements in some parts of the world so youll find nearly all programs can be setup to use metric or imperial just depends what you prefer. so depending on which way you system is setup will depend on what 5 means. i ment it to be 5mm above the job.
In this line "G01 Z-0.25 F10 (THIS LINE IS GOOD)" G01 = feed Z-0.25 = .25mm below the surface of the work piece F = feed rate
so you teeling the machine to feed the tool .25mm below the suface of the job at a rate of 10
your tool speed can be worked out like this: say your using a 10mm drill made from high speed steel the calculation would be 300x25/10 ( 300 is rounded from pie 3.14, 25 is the allowable suface speed of high speed steel 10 is the diamater of the tool.
the same caculation is used for carbide except the suface speed for carbide is 120 your feed rate is normally one tenth your speed but this can vary considerably depending on your materail being used ( what your work piece is made out of) age of tool etc etc.
with out seeing a picture of what you trying to make its very hard to tell if the program itself is correct
glad to help, going though this stuff keeps it fresh in my mind so if you need anything else just yell out.
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hey back again
i seem to be havign some troubles making turns
is there any chance you or anyone, could describe right quickly how to make turns
such as a simple S, C, O or a U type turns?
would be greatly appreciated, Ty in advance for any assistance
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if your trying to engrave letters using a cam program would be youre best bet. If you trying to mill out a circular pocket you could try this
G3 X0 Y25 R50 (this would give you a circular curve from X0 to Y25 with a radius of 50mm moving in a unti clockwise motion.) this would be 3/4 arc
or
G2 I50 J0 R50 this would give you a full circle starting from X50 Y0 with a radius of 50mm ( you need to work in incremental mode for this to work thats why its I + J instead of x+y
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im pretty sure my setup is a little wrong, i cannot seem to get this circle going .. any suggestions?
G3 X0 Y25 R50 = if i put this into the code, wheni load up the code, this line disappears, like theres an error type thing
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"G3 X0 Y25 R50" is only half the equation. The line before that tells the start of the arc, and what you gave us is the end of the arc position. What ever position Mach happens to be at when you load the file, is assumed to be the start point in this case. As far as the line disappearing, I have no idea. Here is another simple arc....
G90 G70 G01 F100
X0.0 Y0.0
G3 X-1 Y0.0 R0.5
M30
correct me if I'm wrong somebody, but shouldn't we get an error with a smaller radius than 0.5 in this particular code? Any smaller is impossible, and Mach just makes it 0.5 no matter what you specify smaller.
When arcs come into play, theres definitely more than one way to skin a cat. I+J, Incremental or absolute distance from/to this/that point. Some machines methods can send your brain spinning in short order.
As Ian said, if your doing letters and stuff, its time to move on to learning a cam package. However, you still need to know the method behind the madness. Good luck.
How goes the welding? Got a bit burned myself this week. Grrrrrrrrrrr >:( >:( >:(
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Thanks for the post. i been practicing coding different shapes .. like pyramid type things, wrapping my mind around how to code stuff, below is a code i made for practice but i know parts are missing such as spindle speed, which direction of rotation, manual stop and a few others
What program is used for the cam thing? id be interested in checking it out
and welding is going pretty good, we finished up our Tig welding course, i got my lap and 1/4" thick mild steel root passes done in all positions, since i got finished ahead of everyone else, i was show how to use the pipe cutter to bevel off edges of schedule 80 pipe
was practicing Tig welding the roots of pipe in all positions (tacked the pipe in a fixed position) and welded all the way around, very nice penetration on the insides with no skipped edges, got my hot passes in but had trouble filling up with the 7018, need more practice at that, i know what the problem was tho, doing blueprinting now for a month then done, out working
but yeh, any information about the cam program would be greatly appreciated, and practice coded is below if you wanted to check it out for some constructive criticism
Thanks in advance for any help
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Lazycam thats with Mach is one of many programs.
Sounds like your already more than your everyday average Joe Welder. I remember at one job, we made hydraulic cylinders for military aircraft. Needless to say you have to be certified. So when cert time rolled around, we just hooked up the gun to a mill table, turned on the table feed, set the wire feeder to automatic mode and let it lay the beads down for us. Your dog could get certified if need be. Hows that for a confidence booster to the guy shoving out tons of equipment out the back of a c130. There all welded robotic now I think, so it's not really an issue anymore.
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Code looks good. You shouldn't need to specify a feed rate except for the very first time, or when the feed rate changes. Going from a feed move,to a rapid, and back to a feed move will not change the rate. Also makes it allot easier to edit, if need be! Only seen two potential errors. The last perimeter overlaps the previous perimeter on the first line move. Could be intended, I don't know. Also I see that in some lines you a use a space between the axis and the value, and no spaces between the two in other sections. (X 1.5 or X1.5) I see that Mach has no problem with this, but other machines may not run the code this way. Just a heads up.
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Thanks, i'll check those out and fix tha problem
1 more question for the night .. in the display box .. is there a way to zoom and and see the design better?
Thanks
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mouse wheel zooms for me, and pan is hold down right mouse button, tilt is hold down left mouse. I'm sure there must be keyboard hotkeys, but I don't know them.
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hey another question, and i did figure out how to create curves/circles with all of your help, thanks very much for that
but i have been trying a new project, Brass knuckles (not really gonna make them, just for practice since the whole area is very curvey)
what ive got done so far, is the basic, square outline .. but now when i got back to re-edit and make a curvey outline, i have errors
this is my code so far
G00 G90 X0 Y0
G00 Z 0.125 X4.5 Y-3
G01 Z-0.125 F10.
G01 Y-2.75
X 3.5
G03 X3.5 Y-2.5 R0.5 -- delete this if your going to try, but this is my first attempt at a curve on the Knucks, (dosnt work)
X 4.75
Y -1.25
X 3.75
Y -1
X 2.75
Y -0.625
X 1.75
Y -1.25
X 0.5
Y -2.5
X 1.5
Y -2.75
X 0.5
Y -3
X 4.5
when i insert the code, nothing at all comes up, but when i remove the 1 curve attempt line, the outline shows up fine, is the curve ratio im attempting to big for the small length? or is the curve to small in general?
any assistance to why this wont work or how my code is wrong would be greatly appreciated and an excellent increase in experience for myself
Thanks in advance
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the radius can be no smaller then then the arc if that makes sence but it could be larger
the problem with your code here is your not feeding anywhere your machine position is Y-2.75 X 3.5 and then your telling the machine to make a curve from this positon to this position.
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hmm i kind of understand what you mean in theory but to do it im not quite sure
is there any chance you or someone could post 1 line of working code? once i see it in relation to this model, i should be able to figure it out
Below is a code i made with a circle curve, i figured it out fine but using the same method, dosnt seem to work, or im missing something
Thanks for any help, really is much appreciated
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The reason why it gives you an error, is because after the arc command, you have not given a line move command, and Mach is still looking for arc information in the next line, which happens to be missing. Simply put a G01 in the next line after the arc. I believe what Ian meant in his reply was that you were specifying an arc with the same end points as the start points. This is not the case, though, as you have moved in Y position.
Below is a code i made with a circle curve, i figured it out fine but using the same method, dosnt seem to work, or im missing something
This is what I was talking about in my previous post about a missing error. Your circle is 3 in diameter. Any smaller that a 1.5 radius is impossible. Replace your R0.5 with R1.5 and you will see that nothing has changed.
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ah ic ic, i understand now, thanks very much for clairfying that
so im guessing, the particular curve im trying to achieve at that particular point on the knuckles, its gonna be impossible cause the curve is way below the minimum ratio limit
how come 1.5 radius is the smallest radius possible? would you use Lazycam to achieve smaller curves (radius) then 1.5 ?
Thanks again .. sorry for asking so many questions .. just find this interesting and wanna learn as much as i can during spare time
Thanks tho
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If you were to draw it in LC or any other software, it would not let you draw a circle with a radius smaller than half the diameter. You can have a radius any size you like, as long as its not under half the diameter of the circle its taken from. It's just not possible, unless of course the universe collapses in on itself and all mathematical laws go out the window. I hate when that happens, i always hafta reset the radio stations in my car.
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yes your right Sam sorry wheels my mistake.
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ah yes, i understand now the half radius thing, i read it before but it never really clicked in until now
i was assuming i was using inches with each of my codes, hence the 0.125 = 1/8 or 0.25 = 1/4, etc
im guessing there is a section in program to specify mm from cm to inches
so for example .. i assumed using a 0.5 (half inch)distance from an X plot to a Y plot, half of that radius would be 1/8 = 0.125
forgive me if im wrong, which im sure i am, couldnt you use a "X plot Y plot R 0.125" kind of code in this situation?
also, i really do apologise for all the questions, only way to learn is practice/ask ... but .. is the default measurements for Mach3 mm? or where can i see this / change the measurements to inchs
again, thanks again for the time and effort to post, dont mean to be a nusance to anyone, and it really is appreciated
Ty much