Machsupport Forum

Third party software and hardware support forums. => LazyTurn => Topic started by: ART on February 13, 2008, 12:39:09 PM

Title: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 12:39:09 PM
Hi Guys:

  As you probably know, I tend to futz about form one project to another. But Turning is something I had intended to do for
some time. SO while I can't promise this will come to full development, I am working on a replacement for the turning mode in
LazyCam. When complete, Turning will be removed from LazyCam and will be replaced by this program.
   
  Turning is pretty hard to do for most people. Im really looking for an easy way to make my own profiles. This program is a DXF
or other vector file loader, which then will assist is creating a turning Gcode. It is planned to do boring, facing, roughing, grooving
and finishing from an imported profile. Presently, all thats done is the input and display sections. But Id like to have any input from
Turn people on what exactly makes a program easy to use in terms of generating a Turn profile.

  This program is a raw begining. Dont expect fancy menu's and such till I get there, each step along the way I am analysing just how
easy it is to use and create profiles. This program will , in the end, also allow for profiles to be drawn. At the moment, all you can do is load
pre-existing dxf's, hpgls, or other vector format data. In your mach3 folder under examples, is a "ainsideprofile.dxf" and an "aoutsideprofile.dxf"
which you can use to test this program, and subsequent releases.

  Any comments are welcome as to ease of use, or ideas you may have for the graphical display of whats going on.

 As I said, this is raw, it will allow loading, display of the profile, stock, and measurements of various things in the loaded profile.

The next post wil show a screnshot, have a download link for the program as it stands, and a short description of function.
We'll go from there. This is being done because Ive always felt a bit bad about not supporting lathe users to the levels I had always hoped,
and also as an experiment as just how to make LazyTruning, truly lazy. From the users perspective at any rate.

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 12:52:19 PM
Hi Guys:

 OK, heres the program, as well as a screen shot of progress to date. In the phot you can see I have loaded a profile, ( any profile must be a single connected group of entities.
LazyTurn will swap around and reconnect as it sees fit, so your drawing order can be as arbitrary as you like. In the end though, it must all connect to a single chain. You may have a detailed face
on the chain if you like as LazyTurn will allow for facing operatiosn in the end. The rulers are smart and zoom and pan with you and are programmed to stay on the screen. Ctrl key and shift key are
the modifiers for zooming and panning as in LazyCam, and the center button of the mouse if the rotational control. ( as in LCam)..

  The pentagons on the ruler indicate Stock size ( blue) , profile diamter ( orange) , and bore size ( Not yet implemented) and moving the mouse over them will tell you the actual measurement. ( the ruler is a visual rough guide). Clicking on any pentagram, will allow you to change that value. You may use this to set stock size, or eventhe profile diamter prior to asking for a toolpath generation. The bottom green pentagram is for seting the location of the Z origin. ( many of us prefer to have the Z start at 0 ) and go negative towards the chuck.

  You need to copy this program into your mach3 folder to use it as it uses a dll from lazycam. While this looks similar to lcam, this is a completely new program using almost no LCam code. Its designed to be fast and efficient. Its using many ticks Ive learned to speed things up, and make things more robust.

 Id appreciate any comments on the work so far so that I dont veer away too far from what the majority think is a better GUI interface to control operations. Of course, at this time, the only thing you can do is
display the profile as a turn object, change stock size, start Z, profile diamter, and zoom around and instapect the object. Toolpath generation will come soon when the side bars are ready. Unlike LCam, LazyTurn will
not be displaying chains, and entities, but rather only a list of generated toolpaths and allow you to order them for execution. A button bar will appear for various operations, grovving, boring, roughing..ect..

  My concept of this is a quick load of a profile, a fast easy way to set general relationships between objects, and quick button presses to generate paths. Tools will be a library od graphical tools so you can see the effects as a path
is generated. But all this is in the future. Id like comments on work so far.

Thanks
Art


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: kiran_list_groups on February 13, 2008, 01:12:35 PM
Hi Art,

The LazyTurn interface is neat! Just a quick thing I noticed - you might want to place the pop up dimensions (mouse over)  on the left side of the ruler for the X axis. The numbers appear superimposed on the scale and could be difficult to read.

Looking forward to helping in any way I can..

Cheers

Kiran
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mammike on February 13, 2008, 01:32:21 PM
Looks cool I imported a dxf and it worked I will haft to play with this some more later.
Thankyou mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: La_coterie on February 13, 2008, 02:18:16 PM
Hi Art,

I just downloaded & tried to run - no dice, says app failed to run cos Lvkrn.dll was not found

Oh? what do I do now?

steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 02:22:52 PM
Steve:

 You need to have LCam installed. And the program needs to be in your Mach3 folder to test it..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 02:23:29 PM
BTW:

 Make sure you have the latest lazycaminstalled. Use the lazycam standalone download link if you like..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 02:24:46 PM
Kiran:

 Thanks. Alreay noted here. Im going to place the numbers in their own little box for clarity.. Nice to hear form you by the way,

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: La_coterie on February 13, 2008, 03:05:54 PM
Hi Art,

Yeah that done it!

my 2cents..

change the pentagons to triangles pointing at the scale and make them dragable, I found myself wanting to move them just to see what happened to the image :)

Here's an idea.... have a table of standard bar sizes (metric and for those across the pond, imperial ;) so 2 tables, user definable) and dragging the triangle jumps from one stock size to another and inicates the current size of stock when the moves moves over the triangle

When you click on the pentagons (now redesigned as triangles ;)) to change the size make the numbers in the box highlighted so you can instantly enter a new number (hey it is supposed to be lazy ;))

I found it unnerving the Z scale changing when I altered the stock size etc - though I'd changed that as well!

go to it art! looks like a fun thing 2 do

steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 03:15:09 PM
good idea.. Ill look into doing both. Not sure I understood the comment on the Z ruler changing when stock chnages, nothign shoudl happen to it unless you reset the Z start.. But I do like the triangles being draggable thing with standard sizes being allowed. Perhaps a double click to enter a diamter, and a drag that click from size to size for standard stock diamters. OF course I havent a clue whats standard, but I imagine thats easily looked up...

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: La_coterie on February 13, 2008, 03:25:46 PM
Hmm, I'll try & get the Z to change and let you know how I did it :)

Let the user (god bless them ;)) define his stock sizes. but otherwise that's exactly what I was thinking

steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2008, 03:59:12 PM
Art,
I'm anxious to try this but I get what you see below.
I have LCam and the Lic.
Do I need to download the latest version ?
I have the version with the mysterious "Assist" button. V2.61
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 04:24:17 PM
Hi:

 Update your lcam to latest version. It uses that dll as well.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 13, 2008, 04:36:39 PM
Hi, Art

Looks pretty nice, Seem's to load profiles easer.

When you get to the tool stuff.

I'd like to see an option that just cut's the profile whether it's inside or outside, That let's the User determine the cutter

shape/profile needed to clear the profile.

At this time with LC, It's pretty confusing and hard to get a complete profile to generate.

Thanks Art for All You Do, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: La_coterie on February 13, 2008, 04:51:15 PM
OK,

the Z..
The numbers stay the same it just shrinks if you put a bigger stock size in & vice versa, I suppose thats natural ::)

those origin arrow don't show up very well in green against a blue background :-\

I've just imported a dxf but it didn't import it the size it was drawn, is there something I'm missing?, I changed it ok but it's not very lazy (ok I know it's early days yet :)) oh length was ok

Here's another one - when stock is same size as job the pentagon goes brown.
A box showing max dia & length would be handy ;) while I'm on  a roll... how about a origin splot you know the white circle with 2 oposite quarters in black.

bonne chance

psst the help file's a bit thin  ;D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 10:48:55 PM
HEres an updated program that is more suitable I think. The toolpaths will be generated on the bottom to emulate the lathe from the top. The arrows show the positions
of the stock, profile and bore, they are clickable. The MRU works, and the hovers have a contrast bhox behind them and work much better..

  Stock diamter will appear as highligted rings, click to select, or click on the stock arrow to set it manually. All settings are now autofocus as well so
you can enter easily a change..



 Good ideas..thx..

Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2008, 10:50:39 PM
oh, and the pic..

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2008, 11:22:30 PM
ART...COOL
The hover box is too small for 4 dec. metric #'s..
The contrast could be better as mentioned earlier..
Keep it up,
Thanks,
RC

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 14, 2008, 12:18:22 AM
Hi, Rc

Look at your dxf, It needs to be a single line segment I think.

Post one of them.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 14, 2008, 12:31:39 AM
Hi, Art

Numbers not finding the little white windows and 0.0's out of place, unit's based on inch in DXF.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 14, 2008, 12:33:55 AM
Thanks Chip,
I think you are right. I see it now in ART's 2nd post. Nothing like what we used in LCam.
I loaded a DXF that was roughly 6 by 12 and it loaded WAY WAY out of proportion.Like 6 by 150.
When I adjusted the Dia. scale to 12, the hover numbers were way out of their boxes.
Weird.
Thanks, RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: La_coterie on February 14, 2008, 03:34:53 AM
Mornin' (wel it is here!)

I like it...but, there's always a but;),

after you've changed the stock size etc the mouse dissapears and I have to wiggle it about to find it again

Nice triangles ;) but when the stock is nearly the same size as job it's ahrd to select one of them.. how about putting the stock arrow on the other side of the ruler?

and.. when I bring in a dxf it doesn't drop in as the size I drew it - is it me or the s/w?  seems to me that if I bothered to draw a shape I would have drawn it the right size and would want/expect it to be the same size in LT

perhaps a box popping up on loading asking whether it's imperial or metric and where do you want the origin - chuck end or free end

If I try to change the diameter of the job it says enter max dia bigger than what I drew it as, therefore I can never make what I drew, well ok adding 0.001 won't make much difference :)

and numbers not in the boxes as above

btw whats that scale bar sort of thing up on the right hand side?

I await the next version...at this rate you'll have it done by the w/e ;D


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Dan13 on February 14, 2008, 04:45:31 AM
Hi Art,

Have a problem opening a DXF, I get the message: No appropriate drawing profile was found. It is attached, please check it.

In the mean while, I have two suggestions:

1. Displaying the tool and its form would be helpful - allowing the tool to move along the profile will let you see the clearances and choosing the right tool. I think there should be some standard tool shapes and an option of creating your own. Of course, to make this you need to add a tool table.

2. I'd like the stock to be always displayed (or rather be turned on and off) in a shaded color and as you define the procedures it updates to the correct shape.

Thanks,
Daniel
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: La_coterie on February 14, 2008, 05:32:17 AM
There doesn't appear to be anything in the dxf...
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: birdfalcon on February 14, 2008, 06:58:04 AM
Art,

Nice to see some dedicated activity for us turners, or in my case a complete novice so this development should really help the likes of me.

A couple of comments however -

1. Would it be possible to specify and show a clamp as representative of the chuck jaws so clash detection with the tool could be determined and
2. Would it be possible to show tool shape so again clash detection with the work piece could be determined.

Keep up the terrific work - did I miss something or haven't you just "retired"? ;D

Jim
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 14, 2008, 07:00:50 AM
Hi Guys I have had a look at lazycam many times and gave up on the turning until it had developed further. Now we are in Lazy Turn in order to comment in future posts I need to know how the drawing format in DXF works If I import a drawing just now to lazyturn it says "No Appropriate Turning Profile was found" Maybe I am a bit premature in my expectations in trying this but I have always had bother understanding in lazycam how to draw a turn profile It is obviously something simple I am missing as I have not seen any other comments on doing it.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: La_coterie on February 14, 2008, 07:27:45 AM
here's a sample dxf for you to open it a dxf viewer, it's just a top half profile and that works for me, as long as it's one continous string of lines & curves it works

hmm a chuck representation would be good, though I guess that will come at revision149 :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 14, 2008, 07:45:15 AM
Looks like the "Select New Max Diameter" must be at least the diameter of the smallest dia. of the finished profile.
The cursor comes right back if you take it to the top or bottom of the screen. Mine only disappear when using "Enter/Return" key instead of clicking the "OK" box to enter the new value.
ANY continuous line representing the profile works good here. Then just enter the Max Diameter and WHALA.
This is LOOKING GOOD !
Thanks ART,
RC

Anxious to see how the "Drawing" feature is going to workout. That will be EXTREEEEMLY handy.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 14, 2008, 07:49:09 AM
I did not know what to expect when i opened that Dwg. ;D
So if you have a knob I have a Cannon  :) Here is the Dwg. I have trouble with and as far as I can see it has the correct perameters.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 14, 2008, 09:10:05 AM
Hi Guys:

 Thx for the comments. As I said earlier, I want the display as perfect as I can get it so Ill work on these troubles.
The DXF Cannon.dxf has an elipitical arc in it, I dont yet import those , but Ill look into it.

  the contrast boxes for the hovers Ill fix up today.

Clarification:

  A drawing has to be a connected series of entities. One series only, not a closed chain. Think of it as a drawing showing the profile.
The drawing should be in Radius , thought he program will display it in radisu or diamter. ( I have it set to diameter at the moment. A selection will come soon).
In other words , if you draw a profile, and the max Y is 10, then thats a diamter of 20 in the displayed object. So the drawing shoudl be drawn in units representing the proper Z coords, ( though they
are easily changed) and the Y of the drawing should be in proper radisu distances. Im using updated import code, and it rejects points automatically. ( ACad often adds points at knot locations..).

  I see a couple of "Wrong size" notes , if you have one the wrong size, please send it to me for testing, the imported size of the object should be exactly as specified in the drawing. The importer
reports to me each entities size in absolute terms so they shouldnt vary ..

  When you change a profiles diamter, the limitation you are shown is the minimum Y of the import drawing, you cant shrink a profile smaller than that, else the lowest Y will cross
the zero line. When drawing an nobject in future you wont be able to cross the zero line either. ( In theory hitting zero will cut off an object so zero is a logical minimum.


Cursor problem is noted and will be fixed today as well.

  Showing a chuck is somethign I tried early on, but fel it didnt add much to the system in reality, Im more in favour of exclusion zones to ensure a tool doesnt cross
into the spindles chuck. But Ill see whats possibel when we get there. Ill fix up the little niggleys first, and when we're all fairly happy with the display, we'll move forward.
There will be a tool table, as well as a graphical tool on the screen showing locations. What I envision is the toolpath eating the stock, and leaving a subprofile behind of uncut material
which can then be cut with another tool if necessary. But thats getting ahead of ourselves. Displayand setup first, then tools and paths.. :)

Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Dan13 on February 14, 2008, 11:54:44 AM
Thanks, I tried the sample DXF. However, something is going wrong - the program is very slow and hardly responds to commands. After a minute of running it wasn't responding anymore and slowed down the computer using above 50% of it's CPU.
It takes me about 40 seconds to load the DXF.

Daniel
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 14, 2008, 11:58:14 AM
I had the same problem loading it
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on February 14, 2008, 12:04:39 PM
Hi Art,

Great to see you could not resist the tap, tap, tap, of the keys.

Lazy turn is looking good so far, I can not get this to load, it is just lines and arcs, no splines etc.

No big problem just thought it may be useful as a sample.

Can you guess what it is yet?  ;D

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: La_coterie on February 14, 2008, 12:23:02 PM
Quote
I did not know what to expect when i opened that Dwg.
So if you have a knob I have a Cannon   Here is the Dwg. I have trouble with and as far as I can see it has the correct perameters.

ah hum, yes perhaps should have given it a better name  :-\

I can't see anything in your cannon when I open it with autocad 14 but I can see it when I drop it in Vcarve - The problem could well be that there are other things in the file as well, there's things in it that look like a light bulb and light written on them amongst other things..

yosefi83 - opening your file in Vcarve all I see it a load of circles  ???
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 14, 2008, 12:32:16 PM
The Canon was done in Turbo Cad and they light bulbs are a pain I managed to get rid of them a long time after the drawing was done they are lighting for 3D, If you open it in lazycam you can see it but it does not show the elipse that Art mentioned in his post.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 14, 2008, 12:51:07 PM
Hi, Bigbigjimbo

Biggest problem was not starting with a clean drawing, There were 5 lights, hidden text and a extra layer.

Draw it in the upper left quadrant of your cad referencing the center of your profile on the X zero line.

The way it's drawn you need to adjust your left to right zero from 7.99 to 0, max dir from 10.5022 to something bigger than 1.2522 and reduce the stock

diameter some.

Hears your dxf and a before and after adjusting it.

Hope this Helps, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 14, 2008, 01:02:38 PM
Cheers Chip, I understand what you are saying and what I have to do for easy Turn drawings. So I gather that EasyCam recieves its drawings in a different way as the lights etc. did not bother it.
I will have to play around to see what you are refering to in Stock Size then i will be sorted and can get back to easyturn.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 14, 2008, 01:20:07 PM
This came out as drawn..OK
Just arcs, straight lines and fillets.
One other profile would not load..like Graham's but I couldn't identify the problem.
Tried arc to arc reversing direction, non tangential all OK.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 14, 2008, 01:41:14 PM
Hi Guys:

  Grahams problem turns out to be a leadtools bug. ( Man that API is buggy as hell, Im really disappointed in how it resolves some files. Ive reported the bug to leadtools, now I need to wait for an update to fix that one. Heres a leadtools test application that shows what your profiles look like to them. If this application shows your file correctly, then LazyTurn should load it as well. Meanwhile we wait for them to fix it..

Art
 >:(
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 14, 2008, 01:44:43 PM
Hi, Graham

It's a serious man's game piece, I think

I loaded your dxf, Did a "Reverse Surface Normal" (BobCad ver. 22 Term), Guess it straightens out the arc's & lines some.

I have some drawings that load fine and some with the same problem.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 14, 2008, 01:47:57 PM
Hi Guys:

  Interestnig that bobcad normals fix that, but I suspect its just bobcad resaving it thats doing it. QCad opens grahams profile fine, but lead doesnt.
Here is a new version with better rullers and more efficient in loading objects. Still working on elipitcal arcs, that turns out to be a leadtools bug as well. ( Reported).

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 14, 2008, 01:49:00 PM
By the way, as a diagnostic, that latest version also shows the raw profile layed over the spun object.. Id be interested in snaps of other failing dxfs.. might lead to the problem..

( Dont you hate the way dxf's vary. :) )

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 14, 2008, 02:11:45 PM
Hi, Art

I'm really really starting to like this program, Thanks !!

Nice things,

It doesn't seem to care whether the DXF is x,y or x,z. based or where it's drawn in the Cad Quadrant layout (adjust to 0,0 after loading)

Comment's

I'd move the red & blue dia. markers to opposite side of the brown one.

Can't seem to find the Post Button though  { :<)

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on February 14, 2008, 03:22:00 PM
Thanks chip for the conversion info, luckily I have the tools to correct the problem.  I just find it so odd that a DXF can be loaded into many programs and saved out in a DXF format that will then not load into other programs why should anything be changed?  DXF is a standard  ;)

Yes its a rather large chess king, made as part of a garden lawn set in black and white acetal.

While turn is getting some attention, would it be possible to get some of the nice Fanuc bits included, e.g.

Auto chamfer

G01 X20. C.25 (form a .25mm chamfer)
Z-10.

Auto radius

G01 X10. R-1. (form 1mm ext corner rad)
Z-10. R2. form a (2mm internal rad)
X20.

Incremental moves

G00 X50. Z2. (move to start point)
G01 Z-100. F.35 (feed to length)
G00 W102. U1. (rapid to Z2. and X52.)
 
Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 14, 2008, 03:56:10 PM
Hi, Art

Data Exchange Format "yea right" Everyone made there own Format of it, Go Figure !!

The Leadtool.exe isen't happy, Must be missing some req. files.

Graham's original dxf loads with ether a untitled file name or leaves the previously loaded file name and shows a profile, w\missing arc's.

After loading in bob-cad and saving a new dxf, Shows file name and a profile, w\missing arc's.

Saving B-Cad dxf, After Chaining or Rev. Surface Normal, Then it's fixed.

Thanks, Chip

Edit: Graham, Yes those would be nice
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Dan13 on February 15, 2008, 02:26:04 AM
La coterie, you are right, my DXF does have some missing entities.

By the way, Chip, just was wondering how is that cannon turned - say you turned everything on the right side up to the left end ball - how the hell do you turn that ball? You can't re-chuck it with the ball side being on the right...

Daniel
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 15, 2008, 02:37:01 AM
Daniel
This is my cannon and I have already turned the back end on an Emco Compact 3 CNC
What is missing from the drawing is that at the ball end, the ball is only partially turned leaving a spigot from the ball to the material held in the chuck.
Once it is turned fully, you can saw it just a little proud of the ball and it can be easily shaped with a file and emery or you could just part it of and clean up the little nipple with a file.
Jimbo
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: PaulWC on February 15, 2008, 08:20:21 AM
Hi Art,

Here's the column profile I had been throwing at LazyCam Pro awhile back... It does not load in LazyTurn. I tried another profile for a pulley, and it loads Ok.

Many thanks for keeping us turners in mind...

Paul, Central OR
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TonyP on February 16, 2008, 05:41:45 AM
Great to see some movement in the turning department. I use Turbocad & am finding problems loading some of the dxfs posted here. The pulley & the column for instance give a 'Viewport entity with no extended data ' error. Conversely I can't load some of my dxfs into Lazyturn. Here's one.


Tony
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 16, 2008, 06:33:15 AM
TonyP
I have looked at your profile and in Turbo cad you have done the same as I did "the lights are on" Go to Menubar at the top of TC and in View select lights Delete them all. I dont this and I now have most of your Valve but not a complete one the other tip to do as I was informed of earlier is to Select all your profile and right click on the mouse and edit the Ref point on the selection to the top Right hand corner once done drag it to 0, 0, this lines up the ruler in lazyturn.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TonyP on February 16, 2008, 08:52:48 AM
Jimbo,
thanks for that, I wasn't aware the lights did anything when in 2d. It doesn't get me very much further in the load though.
Interestingly this profile loads & produces code without any problems in Lcam.

Tony
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 16, 2008, 09:07:44 AM
Tony
Thats the same as i have found and as you were saying the pulley and the other part wont load in my Turbo Cad so much for DXF. I just dont understand what is wrong with your drawing that only produces half the Valve. I am sure someone will explain.
Jim
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 16, 2008, 09:37:08 AM
Hey Guys..Quick Question,
I can save the Pully DXF and open it with LTurn but cannot open ANY DXF with my AutoCad LT.
Is there a way ?  I get what you see below.
I can draw in AC Lt and export a DXF just fine but cannot open a dxf in cad.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 16, 2008, 10:13:59 AM
Hi Guys:

  The column.dxf also has those annoying lights in it. When removed, it loads fine. Im not sure how to sense those automatically, they are stored as lines and arcs, so the program see's them as normal entities. Ill study up on it. Ill try to release latest version today, Im off tomorrow for a weeks snowmobiling trip , and Ill give thought as to how to solve that one , if its solvable. I think your all seeing just how big a problem DXF's tend to be, there are many flavours, and many cad programs stick in all kinds of weird entities and such. LazyTurn will ignore many of them, but when they are simply lines and arcs added in to the rest it makes it very hard to tell what IS and what Isnt a real object. What I may do is just ignore the softest chains, delete them, and keep the longest chain, that should solve many of these kinds of errors. It cheating, but it sounds liek a way to get around all the bad dxf's..

  I still need a fix from leadtools for grahams example, you can see the lines are reported with no Y component for some reason.. We'll see what they come up with. Thay take abnout a month to fix most bug reports.

Thanks,
Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 16, 2008, 02:32:03 PM
Before I go, heres the latest build.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: PaulWC on February 16, 2008, 02:38:11 PM
Hi Guys:

 The column.dxf also has those annoying lights in it. When removed, it loads fine. Im not sure how to sense those automatically, they are stored as lines and arcs, so the program see's them as normal entities. Ill study up on it.

Obviously, that was my fault... I had recycled a file that had previously been renderd in 3D. I don't have a GUI representation of the lights, so they persisted into the 2D profile. I'll have to keep a closer tab on those.

Both the pulley and column profiles were "Saved As" DXF from TurboCAD Deluxe 14. A "clean" Column.dxf is attached.

Paul, Central OR
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Dan13 on February 17, 2008, 03:06:36 AM
Hi Art,

As soon as I load a DXF to LazyTurn, it starts using 50% of the CPU and doesn't respond. Any idea why should this happen?

Thanks,
Daniel
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 17, 2008, 10:23:01 PM
TonyP
I have attached your drawing of the valve showing the way it should be laid out on the Drawing in order to get the Diameter showing properly you will see on thev drawing that the X and Y axis must show the centre and the end of the piece on X=0 & Y=0.
The only thing that I cannot get to work out is what happens after the Valve head when it goes into the angle. Obviously it is meant to have an angle in the piece you want to make.
jim
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TonyP on February 18, 2008, 04:50:25 AM
Jimbo,
unfortunately I now can't open the dxf in turbocad. Amazing how nonexchangeable this format is. Strangely enough, I use the format quite a bit for exchanging circuit diagrams with one of my clients. He generates his in Autocad & I generate mine with Seetrax Ranger ( A PCB cad package ) & we have no problems. I can view either of them on Turbocad, but I've found very few of the dxf's on this topic will display.
I can view your dxf now in Lturn ( It still says it isn't the correct format) but after moving  the axes to x0 z0 at the rhs I still can't get it to take my dxf at all.
This is just a test piece so it's not worth a lot of effort. It's just an example of a real job that I may want to do on the lathe.
Lazycam seems to handle it reasonably well - I'm not really clear why there is such a difference in the input file acceptance. Presumably Art is using a completely different decode/ display method. I do like the new style though.


Tony
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on February 18, 2008, 05:03:53 AM
Tony
Reading your post, what makes it even more strange is that the DXF I have produced is from Turbocad which is what you are using. I think you will find that this will all sort itself out once Art gets his teeth into it. It is what we have been waiting for.
Jim
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TonyP on February 18, 2008, 05:11:20 AM
Jimbo,
my Turbocad is a bit old now, V9 I think . It's certainly exciting to have some attention given to the lathe at last.

Tony
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 21, 2008, 11:09:13 AM
Hi Art
I have just checked in and found you are working on turn great i have been waiting for it  looks great don't stop now your on a roll.

Rg's
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on February 21, 2008, 02:34:28 PM
Hi Art

Thanks for working on turn.
Will turning in Lazycam stay or will it taking out of Lazycam.
Maybe i speak rubbish now but It would be nice if we could draw in Lazyturn (cad/cam)
I am no programmer so i have no idea if that is difficult to make but to me it Will be the ultimate program.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 21, 2008, 10:34:11 PM
Hello Willem,
Here is a quote from ART's first post on this topic.
"This program will , in the end, also allow for profiles to be drawn."
I'm anxious to see this too.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 23, 2008, 06:12:05 PM
Hi Guys:

 Drawing is planned. And when (if?) LazyTurn is released, turning will be removed from lazycam.
Im not sure if Ill do drawing before toolpaths or after, Im just looking now at that choice. I now have
the graphics as good as it will get for the startup phase, but Im thinking I may veer off course to allow
modification of, or drawing of, a profile. Have to check a few things first before I decide the most efficient path
forward. Anyway, Im back, and working on it again, more releases will appear over the next week or so, so
feel free to critique or suggest changes as I go..

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 23, 2008, 06:20:36 PM
WELCOME BACK !
Hope you had a grand time.
I personally would like to see the tool path first, but I guess it really doesn't matter much.
Regards,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on February 23, 2008, 07:28:21 PM
Hi Art

Of course it is up to you what come first , i take it as it comes.
To me it most importend that profiling on the frontside of the material is possible ( i do not mean the frontside of the toolpost but the side i see looking from the tailstock).
The graphics what i see now is very promising.
By the way if i load a profile i see no difference if i choose inner or outer profile but maybe that is not in order at this moment.
Anyway i love the idea that there Will come a great turning program (if it will be half as good as the mill program i already will be happy)

Thanks and greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on February 24, 2008, 07:01:18 AM
Hi Art,

before you get too deep into the structure of Lazyturn can I drop in a few ideas :-

1. Can we have the option of front or rear turret, better still a mixture of both. I have external tools on the front and internal tools on the rear.

2. Can we have centre line drilling and tapping with graphics, user to enter drill/tap dia and length etc.

3. Could we have a scaled plan view, backdrop of our lathe layout, that way collisions could be spotted (users could draw the plan view as a dxf)

4. Would user defined tools be possible, tool and turret could then be drawn for above.

5. Could you make it so that grooving/parting tools can have 2 offsets, one on the front edge and one on the back edge of the tip.  This is great for sizing grooves and maintaining position.

6. Is it possible to do X axis threading, e.g. lathe chuck scrolls.  :o

Some wish list I know, but if you don't ask, you never get.  :)

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: wantcnc on February 25, 2008, 04:10:34 PM
Can I second Graham on the request for scaled backdrop view of the lathe,chuck and tools.
this is by far the hardest thing in turning to keep stationairy and rotating bit away from eachother (about to run a slanted bed machine here with tool turret)
DXF is good enough
imagine a DXF for the lathe, and several others for the tool profile (origin as tool marker)

JB
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 28, 2008, 12:06:05 AM
Hello ART,
Not to sound petty, but....will LTurn be included with the purchase of the LCam Lic. ?

Answer at your leisure, just curious.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: PoolQ on February 28, 2008, 05:02:40 PM
Don't forget about use router lathe users  :o that use the rotation axis as an indexer and can make cuts along the length
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 28, 2008, 05:52:40 PM
Hi Guys:

  Sorry for the dealy, Ive been busy working on Tools. ( I decided I need tools and toolpaths before anythign else..)

1) LazyTurn will be free to LCam pro users. No extra charge at all.
2) Explain the scale view.. you mean a top down view showing what a user sets for the Chuck position and size??
3) Center line drilling and such should be do-able, certainly facing profiles will be on the Z face.
4) User Defined tools will not be in right away, BUT the design I cam up with for tools will allow for it to be added. The tool,
    in the end after designing it, will simply be a profile used mathmatically to detect collisions in creation of the path , so a user defined
    tool and holder, perhaps as a DXF will be importable in the end.. ( hopefully..)
5) Grooving parting tools will be usable, but Im not sure I understand enough about the offsets on that one to comment as yet
    on what I can do there..
6) For Lathe milling users would be advised to use Mill with an appropriate profile to move the right axis. I see that operation more as an Indexed Mill operation.


New version shoudl be out in a week or so, tools is an important function of any Turn program, so Im going slow..

Thanks
Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: tantan on February 29, 2008, 06:59:26 AM
:)

hi art,

thank you for working on lazyturn. i am a newbee with mach3 turn, and i was quite disappointed about lazycam for turning; actually i cannot use it for generating profiles (pro version).

am i right that if you implement "tools" i should be able to generate profiles?

thanks
tantan
the netherlands
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 01, 2008, 10:08:33 AM
Hi:

 Yes, I do hope to do that, BUT primarily Im interested in the generation of toolpaths. There
are a few CAM packages out there to draw profiles and create paths, their high cost is due to the complexity
of doing all that, and the required support. If I can do a program that easily imports DX and generates toolpaths,
I may decide that thats enough. It was never my intent to compete with true CAM, its not a place I belong, but
I do have the requirement of a DXF -> Toolpath program, so thats my initial thrust. Its coming along, and the tool
definition is almoist done, then I need to do the actual path creations. At that point Ill look at future considerations,
but there no real guarentee Ill get there.. drawing profiles adds allot of complexity to an importation program,
so allot depends on how the toolpathing works..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: tantan on March 02, 2008, 04:23:49 AM
hi art,

thank you for your reply. i think i misunderstand the difference between toolpaths and profiles. what i mean (and that is what i really miss) is: importing a dxf file, generating toolpahts so that every time the chisel go's along the material 0.5 mm (for example) of material is taken away.

thanks

antoine
the netherlands
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: PaulWC on March 03, 2008, 11:50:31 PM
Hi Art,

I think what Antoine is trying to say is he is looking for LazyTurn to take a dxf profile as input, and generate toolpaths for both roughing passes and a finish pass (or two?) that follows the profile contour.

Anyway... that's what I'm hoping for!!!  ;)

I the past, I have used Turn Wizards to generate roughing and finish paths per segment... then copy/paste toolpath segments together for complete profile code.

Paul, Central OR
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 04, 2008, 11:38:20 AM
Hi Art
 Thanks for getting to lazy cam turn as with the others i have been waiting for it question will there be a separate lazy cam download will my LIC work with it ?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 04, 2008, 12:01:00 PM
Hi Dennis,
Check out ART's reply #71 above.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 05, 2008, 10:20:02 AM
RC
 Thanks for pointing that out to me i have not gone through all the post on this subject OK i didn't know there are 2 different versions of LC i thought what i had was the only version so what do you get with the Pro version that the standard version won't do?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 05, 2008, 10:27:01 AM
I was just looking at the software purchase page and just remembered i purchased a LC lic will it cover the pro version?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 05, 2008, 10:43:51 AM
There are 2 versions:
Demo version.....same software but without the lic. , some functions blocked
Pro version.....same software but with all functions unlocked.
RC

Lazy Turn will be a separate program, but will be fully funtional if you have the LCam lic.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 05, 2008, 02:59:16 PM
RC
Great then because i purcahsed a LIC for LC i have the pro version.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 06, 2008, 05:41:06 PM
Hi Guys:

 Sorry Im a bit slow with an update. Im working on tool creations, Im doing it as a graphical tool maker that allows
you to see the tool as you build it. ( trying to make it lazy as I can..). Tool as very difficult, everyone uses different styles,
but Ill make it match 90% of you at first anyway..

   I see questions about profiles and toolpaths, a profile is what you load from a dxf, LazyTurn will then generate a series
of toolpaths for that profile, from facing to roughing and finishing.. Thats the next step after tools are finished. The shape
of the tool will be important in LTurn, as it will be a grpahic object calculating any collisions in the path, and also
creating new profiles as they go so the program will know whats remaining and wont try to cut it again after roughing and such..

  Anyway, Its going slow, but its going. I have tools about 1/2 done, Ill release an update so you can critique it all when tools are done,
and I while I start the Toolpathing processes..

Art

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on March 09, 2008, 06:51:37 PM
Well, speaking of opinions.............

After cludging about in more software that I could ever afford to purchase and having stumbled and fallen face first into Mach purely by accident I found this line of software as comfortable as a pair of old pajamas. You can just relax and do your thing. The philosophy in management was wonderfully supportive like an old friend. I was crestfallen to learn that Art was going to retire and elated to learn that he will complete the turn function. I'm one of his most devoted fans.

I will wait with baited breath to see what develops, confident that it will be very usable. The one request that I would make and the thing I needed most that wasn't there in Lazycam was a way to over ride an indicated rapid movement in order to avoid a collision.

Enjoy your retirement as you play with Turn, Art.  You deserve it!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on March 10, 2008, 02:29:53 PM
Just had an additional thought. A choice between radial and diametrical modes would certainly be a neat feature.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 12, 2008, 08:42:34 PM
Hi Art and guy's
Is the L-turn ready to test yet.

Dennsi
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ftomazz on March 14, 2008, 05:29:21 PM
Hi.

One important thing that must not be left behind is the tool radius compensation. Nobody wants a cam software that will not reproduce the final object different from the drawing.
For what I read, I think that lazyturn will "translate" a dxf file or another input file into a gcode program. It will select tools, manage toolpaths etc, and mach3 will process the gcode file generated by it.


Now a question:

The toolpath generated by the lazyturn will be the exact piece and mach3 will manage the tool radius compensation

OR

Lazyturn will create a toolpath that already includes the tooltip radius compensation ?


My suggestion is that mach3 compensates the tool radius. In this way a user is free to use its cam software. For example I made a program to do just that, translate a dxf into gcode, but the final object differs because of the radius of the tools. I must draw it already thinking on the tool and make some calculations that is difficult and easy to make mistakes.
Also, I think that this feature already should be functional in mach before more work is pointed to a "turn utility", since it is a "must" on a turn controller.

Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ftomazz on March 14, 2008, 05:31:24 PM
Sorry, before I wrote:

"Nobody wants a cam software that will not reproduce the final object different from the drawing."

it should be:

"Nobody wants a cam software that will reproduce the final object different from the drawing."

(of course everbody wants a software that reproduces good final parts)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 15, 2008, 01:25:16 PM
Hi Guys:

  Actually, In turn, the final part is quite often different from the drawing. This is due to cutter geometry. Most cutters cannot cut all parts without collisions. The true
trick is to generate a compensated path, compensated not only for the tool radius, but also for the tool shape and holder profile, AND to display the differences from the
drawing and the finshed path, so one could use another tool to clear out what wasnt cut. All this of course will take time. I currently have tools allowed to be created that mimic
most inserts and shapes, but ground tools will be a problem for a bit. At present, one will have to create a tool as close as they can to the actual tool they are using, BUT, if
one simply creates a button tool  with an inscribed circle radius of their ground tool tip, then they should be able to use such a tool to get very close to what their trying to profile.
  I have added radius vs diameter selections and well as metric vs inch unit selection. I havent allowed for a realtime conversion between the two, so a loaded drawing uses whatever
the current units are.  Now that I have a rudimentary tool availability, Ill release a version so you can have a look, several things have been cleaned up, and look pretty good, some entities ,
such as eliptical arcs are not importing properly, Im waiting on LeadTools to analyse the error in enumerating those items. However, todays release will show you how things work at present,
how you will select and create a tool. Once selected the tool will be drawn on the screen so you can get an idea of tool size vs the profile dimensions. That drawing code isnt done yet, but
creating tools is much more complex than youd think to make it as lazy as possible. You have to remember Turning is very very complex when you begin to analyse all the possible interactions
and collision possabilities. Im slow at this because Im trying to make it truly lazy, and Im not compromising very much as I go. Im hoping the added attention to details as I rough all this in,
will pay benifits to me in ease of implementation of the very complex sections to come.

   It is planned that simple clicks and drags will generate the paths, and the stock will go from transparent to solid for the simulations, then go back to transparent so you can see what doesnt cut
with the tool you have selected. You could then select another tool, and cut from only what hasnt yet been cut or redo the cut entirely.  This should allow you to get as close as possible to the drawing dimensions by using combinations of tools if you wish. Proposed GCode will display after generation for any modifications to be done.( Hpefully). :)

  All planning is rough based on the problems I get a grip on , and expected user interaction problems. Again, your critiques are valuable in this, I read them all, so feel free to jump in
as you see it grow. Release in a few minutes..

Art
 

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 15, 2008, 01:39:58 PM
Hi Guys:

  OK, so heres the latest development build of LazyTurn with tool creation.  Still doesnt do much of course, but you can load
profiles, see how they load and react to you, create a tool library and see how that works, expect bugs..

   The tools creation is near done, some small things like the metric tool type should select your default inch/metric isnt done yet,
but for the most part it is possible to create tools that shoudl mimic your tools fairly well if you use inserts, if not, then you could generate
tools that simply have a tool radius about equal to your ground tool , and with an almost nonexistant toolholder. In the end, Im going to try
allowing a DXF to be imported as the shape of a tool. In actual fact as you create a tool , you ARE really creating a dxf of a tool that will
be used in the collision dynamics to create the toolpaths, so when I get it all locked down, it should be possible to allow a dxf based
tool creator for special tools.

  SO tools is basically all this version gets you to play with, next comes some general pthing functions when I return from Egypt in early April,
( I leave for Egypt next week.. and Ill think about the pathing fucntions and how to make them as lazy as possible..).

You need to have a verison of lazycam in the same folder you unzip this release into, so Id suggest your mach3 folder..

Just a note on complexity, it isnt my aim to replace the high end Turning modelers out ther, like Dolphin and OneCNC, they do a great job for those
that use CAM programs, LazyTurn will continue to be dedicated more to the hobbiest who really jsut wants an easier way to generate paths from DXF's,
keep that in mind, so expect simpler things at first, like simple boring, profileing, roughing, finishing, facing and grooving. Hi end analysis and milling isnt likely
to occur, Ill feel pretty good if you can draw a quick profile, and perform a multitool stock->product Gcode list. Theres a reason why true turning programs
are expensive, so keep your expectations reasonable for a hobby/small business package.

Let me know what you think..

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 15, 2008, 02:24:23 PM
Hello ART,

? ? ?
I have the latest and greatest LCam.   V3.00.2


RC 8)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mick on March 15, 2008, 03:40:13 PM
Hello ART,
              just tried latest Lturn reinstalled twice,still no joy
                                                                                 thanks mick.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 15, 2008, 03:49:41 PM
Mick,
Do you have the latest V3.00.2 installed ?
The file yours is asking for is in there on mine.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TonyP on March 15, 2008, 03:52:45 PM
Mine wants sgcore.dll too.

Tony
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mick on March 15, 2008, 04:27:51 PM
yes RC,
          I DO have the latest v3.00.2, and the lvkrn15u.dll is also there.
                                                                                                  mick.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 15, 2008, 04:36:33 PM
Mick, do you see sgCore.dll in yours ?
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: claydavis on March 15, 2008, 04:45:20 PM
Having the same story here, error message says no dll, but it is in the directory.
Clayton
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mick on March 15, 2008, 05:39:02 PM
RC ,
     NO i dont have sgCore.dll anywhere.
                                                       mick.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 15, 2008, 10:15:39 PM
Sorry Guys:

 My bad. The files I included were wrong. HEre is the right combination..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 15, 2008, 11:27:02 PM
HI Guys:

  Heres a better one actually..

Thanks
Art


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mick on March 16, 2008, 05:21:12 AM
still no joy,
               mick.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on March 16, 2008, 06:07:07 AM
Try putting the 3 files into the Mach3 folder NOT the lazyturn sub-folder.

Works for me that way.

Liking the new tools Art, can't make any sense of the button tools though.

On the grooving tools can we have a front and back edge offset, that way position and width can be compensated for.

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mick on March 16, 2008, 06:49:52 AM
thanks Graham,
                     works for me to.
                                                  mick.



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on March 16, 2008, 07:37:23 AM
Hi Art

I get an opegl error.
Although it looks fancy but could you make the tool stand still?

Greetings:
Willem

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on March 16, 2008, 08:17:34 AM
Hi Art

Could you make the tool icon (in the white box) the real tool shape (tooltip in the yellow box)?
If i ask the impossible please take note that i have absolute no idea how difficult it is to make dose bits and bytes do what you want.
Is it possible (in the future) to edit the shape of the toolbody and that Lazyturn take note of the shape to calculate the toolpath?

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 16, 2008, 10:30:13 AM
HI Guys:

  The Icons are set bitmaps, so its hard to make the icon match, ( not impossible but best left as housekeeping after functionallity..)
OpenGL errors are likely due to old openGL implementations, I tend to use new ones, so update video drivers if you get openGL errors,
they may be caused by video card drivers not likeing some OpenGL lighting modes.
  The toolholder is as yet still rough, it will be made to conform more to the user in the future, and yes its shape will be taken into account
for the generation of the Gcode in the end.
   The tool will stop turning soon, and just have an option to rotate it , I just wanted a user to be able to see height as well as direction a bit better.


 ( Graham: Does a grooveing tool have an X offset? OR a Z offset? I would have thought that a groove tool ( or cuttoff) woudlnt have an offset, or is the grooving tool
actually having a rounded tip with , therefore, both a Z and X offset? The REd dot on the tool is the center of tool radius, from which the Z and X offsets are taken, but Ive
never actually used a grooving tool so I wasnt sure if the tip had a radius or was simply a square edge...thereby having no offsets.. )


Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on March 16, 2008, 03:31:24 PM
Hi Art,

the way to do grooves is to use 2 offsets, for example if we use tool 7 we would use say offset 7 and offset 17, offset 7 would have a X and a Z offset for the diameter and the front edge of the tool, offset 17 would have the same X offset as offset 7 but the Z offset would be for the back edge of the tip.

E.G

Our tool tip is 1.5mm wide, we set our diameter datum as normal, we touch the front edge of the tip on the front of the job and set our Z offset, e.g. -100  The offset for the back of the tip would be entered into offset 17 as Z-101.5, that will put the back edge of the tip at the end of the job if we entered in MDI 'G00 Z0 T0717'

Man that's a lot of offsets  ;D

The following code is what I would use to produce the drawing below.

N7 T0707 M8 (GROOVE 11.5*2)
(CENTRE TIP 1.5)
G00 X13.5 Z-4.75 G97 S750 M3
G01 X11.5 F.1 (CENTRE OF GROOVE)
G00 X13.5
Z-5.2 (USE TIP - FRONT EDGE)
G01 X12.5 F1.
G02 X12.1 Z-5. R.2 F.05
G01 X11.5 F.1
G00 X13.5
Z-2.8 T0717 (USE TIP BACK EDGE)
G01 X12.5 F1.
G03 X12.1 Z-3. R.2 F.05
G01 X11.5 F.1
G00 X13.5
X120. Z120. T0700
M1

Most grooving tools have a radius to stop them snipping the edge, the idea of the 2 offsets is to compensate for wear and maintain position. 

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 16, 2008, 03:57:47 PM
Graham:

  Ahh, I think I see what you mean. My thought on the grooving tool is to still set a tip radius, this sets the internal 0 point of the tip, so the X and Z offsets are implied by that. In your example tool
then, if one specifed a tip radius appropriately, then the X and Z offset are implicit. So if you zeroed to the back edge of the tool, with no X,Z offsets setup , your actually changing the
side tolerances as well as the tip end. Though in your case that may not suffice. Ill look at that for you when I do a grooving tool sequence. We may have to have a dual offset, but as it stands ,( at least in my head) I think a general tool tip radius even for a groving tool should create the right offsets. ( Though zeroing may require a knowledge about if your zeroing to the left or right of the tool. ). But that I
expect may be true of any tool since tip radial center is the important setting for the tool. Not a problem in generation of code as direction is considered in terms of the cut, but zeroing will be the important
function in that regard. But Im not sure I see a differecne between the grovving tool or any other tip in that regard.

  I may be missing soemthing though, but Im sure it will become clear when you tell me I *********ed up on the generation for the actual code. :), thats the point at which we'll find that problem. But for
actual code generation, motion direction will account for the path, zeroing I suspect is the problem in terms of setup.. On the other hand, if we just leave offsets to zero, and use a tip radius as the complete
setup in MAch3 for that tool. ( taking wear registers into account) , then really no offset should be necessary... hmm, gotta think about that one for MDI usage, my though was to eliminate the G41/G42 requirment by using tip center as the Gcode output default, thus making the output precompensated as to offsets other than tip radius.. Im still comig to grips with that internally though, so I guess
all I can promise is Ill fix that up as I screw it up. :)

 I can say that I had considered the zeroing to be semi automatic, since the code will assume the tip radius , then in MAch3, no offsets or G41/G42 shoudl have to be selected, when you zero to the X front of the stock, the zero will be assumed to be off by the tip radius in the X dimension, the Z dimension will have to be zeroed to the outside when a program is to be started, the asumption being that you have zeroed to the face and are now offset by tip radius in the Z ++ direction. The programs Gcode from LazyTurn will assume that when generating the code. Though perhaps a switch will be necessary to dictate to the Gcode poster that the true zero should be considered to be left or right. ( though the tool setup should be able to tell that in left or right sided tools.). Center tools woudl be the unknown
element. Youll notice a checkbox for "Use tip center", that will descriminate between using Mach3's offset registers with compensation, or just to create the code as precompensated using the tip radius as that compensation from tip center.

  As I say though, Im sure Ill see a dozen conflicts in there as I start to do all that..  so we'll discuss that in depth as I start to generate code. Ill be sure to structure it to give us some flexability there as I
know that my sad lack of turning experience will screw up my head in offset terms a bit as I go. We'll see how automatic I can make that.. but since Im generating the code, I shoudl be able to make automatic assumptions based on the direction of travel that a cut will do as you swap a tool on a zeroed system and continue the job using the original zero point from another tool.. So in the end, for myself
anyway, Id liek to get away from using offsets all together, and just use tip radius as the effective factor.

 By the way, there was a bug in the original release that made button tools not work, no tip was shown, that last download though shoudl show a button tip as a typical button tool, ( just a round disk with tip center at center of the button..

Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on March 16, 2008, 04:33:46 PM
Thanks for the reply, I look forward to the results of your labour, its going to be great.

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 16, 2008, 04:45:56 PM
Hi.

One important thing that must not be left behind is the tool radius compensation. Nobody wants a cam software that will not reproduce the final object different from the drawing.
For what I read, I think that lazyturn will "translate" a dxf file or another input file into a gcode program. It will select tools, manage toolpaths etc, and mach3 will process the gcode file generated by it.


Now a question:

The toolpath generated by the lazyturn will be the exact piece and mach3 will manage the tool radius compensation

OR

Lazyturn will create a toolpath that already includes the tooltip radius compensation ?


My suggestion is that mach3 compensates the tool radius. In this way a user is free to use its cam software. For example I made a program to do just that, translate a dxf into gcode, but the final object differs because of the radius of the tools. I must draw it already thinking on the tool and make some calculations that is difficult and easy to make mistakes.
Also, I think that this feature already should be functional in mach before more work is pointed to a "turn utility", since it is a "must" on a turn controller.

Thanks for reading.

  There already is G41/G42 in Mach3Turn, but unless one understand all the tip directions, tip radius, X and Z offsets very well, ( and is brave) I woudlnt use it. Its a tough thing to use. SO LazyTurn will  take the tool into account and generate code for that tool, with radius precompensated so the output code will produce exaclty what it says it will. It IS rare though for many turning jobs
to produce exactly what the drawing shows, due to tool geometry not matching the drawing even if compensated. LazyTurn will show, after each tools path is generated, what parts did NOT cut, its up tothe user then to select another tool that is capable of cutting the remaining stock, or accept the differences from original drawing. At least thats how I envision it working at this point.. Im leading up to a simulation/generation facility that shows what didnt cut very prominantly and allows you to recut just that portion with a new tool.

  To clarify what Im aiming for, as its different from LazyCams process, in LazyTurn, I want a user to import a profile, set a stock radius, as it does now. Then select from a group of buttons what to do. If you select facing, then you select a tool, tip direction will automatically be assumed by the fact your facing. The toolpath will be generated and youll be shown it cut that face. In bright red, will be areas that differ fromt he loaded profile to the cut result. You can then accept that or just select another facing operation, and a new tool, and cut from that last cut just removing material that the new tool can cut. ( though in facing I dunno why you would..).  You are then left with a profile, and stock showing the face now mathes the profile loaded. Youd then select roughing, select a tool, and hit generate, the tool will show you the cut, and the resultant profile will show in red what doesnt match your profile. You then could , for example, select finish, select a tool, and youll see the finsih tool remove all it can, again leaving behind a red profile of what doesnt match. Youll continue this type of sequencing until your stock looks like your profile. There may be differences you wish to recut with variosu tools, or you may decide thats good enough. The Gocde will then be generated from all the created paths as one Gcode file. This will include Facing, Boring, roughing and finishing passes in the order that best makes sense to you.

   In other words, on load you are shown a stock, and a profile. Its your job through selecting various operations and tools, to whittle the stock down to your profile. Each time you cut a stage, the stock will turn opaque, show the tool whittle it down, then the stock will turn semi transparent again, in bright red, so you can see where the stock is larger than the profile. The stock will never be smaller than the profile. :) . Its my hope that this is more intuitive than before, and will allow for more sequences to be done until your stock/profile match is as good as it gets with your tools.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 16, 2008, 07:30:04 PM
Rich:


  Exactly.., in your case youd make a small button tip with a holder of very small width. It isnt that the end tool has to look
exactly like the actual tool, it just has to reflect the actual cutting limitations you need, since you know that inherantly
the tool you use will not colide with the end balls, youd just use the afore mentioned tool description, and all shoudl be well.

  On the other hand, if you were roughing, you may want to describe a wider holder so that the ball ends will collide, and thus wont be cut
during the roughing operation, thus leaving the ball ends to be cut by your small holder tool description. You get the idea fine I think..

 ( All this is in theory of course, you just never know where we'll actually end up after all things are considered. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ftomazz on March 18, 2008, 01:57:50 PM

  There already is G41/G42 in Mach3Turn, but unless one understand all the tip directions, tip radius, X and Z offsets very well, ( and is brave) I woudlnt use it. Its a tough thing to use. SO LazyTurn will  take the tool into account and generate code for that tool, with radius precompensated so the output code will produce exaclty what it says it will.


But the G41 ang G42 are working now? or they are only present on the tool table ?
I read before that they still are not implemented. If they are, then Mach3 is perfect for me!

Thanks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 18, 2008, 06:32:07 PM
Trying to set-up 2 diamond tools, one angled left and one angled to the right. The angle is exaggerated for illustration.
+ and - in the angle select box evidently is one direction or the other but watch as the tool rotates. The insert is always on the top. At first I thought the holder was sweeping 180 deg. left and right but it looks more like it's rotating with the insert always in view because the angle direction of the insert reverses each time around.
Question is:  Would a pos. angle entry be to the left...like for facing or turning towards the chuck ? (right hand tool)
And a neg. be for back facing or turning away from the chuck ? (Left hand tool)
Load the attached example and watch it spin. Warning: It may give you a headache.
Thanks,
RC

Quote ART  "The tool will stop turning soon, and just have an option to rotate it , I just wanted a user to be able to see height as well as direction a bit better."



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 18, 2008, 11:16:20 PM
Yes, thats what Id use rigth and left for. The only important thing is it matches the actual tools boundries as close as you can manage.

( G41/G42 are implemented, but very hard to use and untested for a long time. LazyTrun will put out precompensated code.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ftomazz on March 19, 2008, 04:05:20 AM

( G41/G42 are implemented, but very hard to use and untested for a long time. LazyTrun will put out precompensated code.

Art


Mach should manage the G41 and G42 by itself in my modest opinion. This would give the user the possibility to chose the program that he/she wishes or to program manually lines of code. Also it would make mach3, more a more complete program, since lazycam is not "shipped" with mach3.
I understand that implementing G41 and G42 is a difficult task, but probably not so difficult compared to the creating of a precompensated toolpath that you will implement in lazycam.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on March 19, 2008, 05:21:03 AM
Hi RC

Funny, i get a different vieuw with the same settings.
watch the tip go in the other direction.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 22, 2008, 02:31:59 PM
>>Mach should manage the G41 and G42 by itself in my modest opinion

  The problem with g41 and g42 is they dont take the holder into account, nor the tool geometry really, they refer only
to the actual tip radius compensation, which makes them good on some things, not so good on others. Collision detection
is not possibel with g41/g42, since nothing is known about the tool other than the tip radius.. its more powerfull to create the
path precompensated, which si why most use precompensated code, not G41/G42 when they have a choice. End cut angles, side cut angles, back angles.. none of them make a difference in G41/G42 so the cut is actually much harder to do using comp in a controller , than from cam.
  The proof of that is simple, G41/G42 has been in turn for 3 years, no reports of problems, even though I know they exist. This means
noone uses them even if available. Everyone I have done support for uses percompensated code.. its always easier to do so..
( Personally, I find G41/G42 near useless in a controller for lathes..)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: PaulWC on March 24, 2008, 08:04:19 PM
HI Guys:

OpenGL errors are likely due to old openGL implementations, I tend to use new ones, so update video drivers if you get openGL errors, they may be caused by video card drivers not likeing some OpenGL lighting modes.

 The toolholder is as yet still rough, it will be made to conform more to the user in the future, and yes its shape will be taken into account for the generation of the Gcode in the end.
 The tool will stop turning soon, and just have an option to rotate it , I just wanted a user to be able to see height as well as direction a bit better.

( Graham: Does a grooveing tool have an X offset? OR a Z offset? I would have thought that a groove tool ( or cuttoff) woudlnt have an offset, or is the grooving tool actually having a rounded tip with , therefore, both a Z and X offset? The REd dot on the tool is the center of tool radius, from which the Z and X offsets are taken, but Ive never actually used a grooving tool so I wasnt sure if the tip had a radius or was simply a square edge...thereby having no offsets.. )


Thanks
Art


Durnit!!! I also get the OpenGL error... and have one of those Dell Dimension 2350's with on-board Intel graphics... no support for OpenGL 2.0 or 2.1. Can't afford a new computer, or even new mother board for now. Installing a PCI video card seems to baffle many before me that have tried. Oh well, the errors are just annoying, but cheap. ;o)

Here is the grooving tool I use:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=422-2880&PMPXNO=7908821&PARTPG=INLMK3

For profiling, I use the full radius insert at 0.078" width, 0.039" radius, 0.235" length:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=3008017&PMAKA=990-1551

I have been using a custom defined button tool (diameter and length) in CutViewerTurn for proofing code, and has done pretty well, except when the tool holder body starts hitting the stock. It would be nice to be able to define the tool holder, which has a negative rake style front profile. It's a real gotcha when the same profile is applied to a larger radius part, and the bottom edge of the tool holder starts to "burnish" the work!

May do some creative relief grinding...

Paul, Central OR
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 27, 2008, 01:08:20 PM
Hi Guy's
Just checking in is L-turn working and can i downlaod a version.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 27, 2008, 04:34:23 PM
Hello Dennis,
Download at reply #100, this topic.
We're up to the tools, but not finished yet.
Coming along nicely though.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 31, 2008, 01:38:22 PM
Thanks RC i did download that one waiting for full functiioning version.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on April 15, 2008, 02:36:16 PM
It seems that the project has been stalled for some reason.

Waiting with bated (baited?) breath!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 16, 2008, 10:36:03 AM
Looks like not much is going on with Mach in general no new version's.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on April 16, 2008, 01:42:45 PM
April 12/2008
Release 3.040
-- Calc Steps per Unit sets dist type to ABS when it is finished (Was inc)
-- the mysteries MDI not working has been found and fixed
-- THC sync fixed
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 17, 2008, 10:21:46 AM
the above is for Lazy turn or Mach 3 i am talking about LT.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on April 17, 2008, 12:21:17 PM
Looks like not much is going on with

Mach in general no new version's.

Dennis

Mach in general?? Hmmmm!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 01, 2008, 11:29:08 AM
Hi Guys:

  There was a lull while I was in egypt, but Im working on it again. Ive hit a snag where Im not happy with the offsetting
routines used in LazyCam so Im now recoding up some of my own. This is slow work, so it'll be awhile before any update, I am generating simple
roughing paths, but its failing the offset calcs on complex objects like the cannon example, so now I have to recode a new offset handler. Its
complex work, but Ill post an update sample when Im done..

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zarzul on May 01, 2008, 12:42:24 PM
A big thank you Art!!!


Arnie
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on May 23, 2008, 08:58:25 AM
Beginning to worry about you, Art. Is your health OK?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on June 01, 2008, 12:50:11 PM
Hi Art

I know there is A lot turbulence on the mach3 front but do you still see light on the end of the Lazyturn tunnel?
It is so destroying silence around here.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on June 08, 2008, 02:18:54 PM
It seems very quiet everywhere around here.

I know how you feel Willem, I've been hoping for some LazyCam updates but apparently they have their hands full. I do wish there was as much input here as there is on the Mach 3 yahoo forum. It's ashame they don't just consolidate the separate forums into one complete area.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on June 09, 2008, 02:16:01 PM
The Yahoo forum is bulk insanity. It's as if someone used a skip loader to scoop up everything relevant to Mach and drop it into a dump truck and then dump load after load into a single thread.

Look for an answer to a problem? Forget it!! You will be reading for weeks just to find the general subject.

I did just now spot Arts moniker over there, so he's not in poor health. He has just abandoned us.

Sad.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chaoticone on June 09, 2008, 08:10:12 PM
Sorry Guys, I know Art is still working more hours than most even after he has retired. I know you guys are wanting Lazy Turn bad but please be patient.

Brett
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on June 09, 2008, 08:19:54 PM
Hi Guys:

 Sorry for the lack of news, Im busy on several fronts. Im still working on LazyTurn, but Im very slow at the moment. Heres a phot of current level, Ill try to release another demo as soon as I strighten out the problems Im having on soem contouring issues. Allot of this is research, so it takes awhile, anyone thats done offsetting of random polygons can understand the dififculties involved. No promises on timeline, but as you can see the owrk continues. (Thanks to Brett for notifying me of the questions, I dont get auto notifications on this thread..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on June 10, 2008, 01:56:43 AM
Thanks Art

Sorry for the impatience.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on June 10, 2008, 01:58:53 AM
Hi, Art

Thanks for the update. Looking good.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on June 11, 2008, 11:20:47 AM
Hi Rich:

 Wish I shared the hope. :-)

Seriously, it is a slow project as its much more complex than youd think. However, I hope to learn many new methods that will help
make mach3 better itself. Its all about educating myself. Progress continues..

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: randyray on July 05, 2008, 11:48:50 PM
Thanks, Art.
Looking forward to using what you have when you have it.
Randy
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 08, 2008, 03:12:14 PM
Hi Guys:
 Thought Id post a short video showing how LazyTurn is coming. This shows the roughprofiling before collision
detection is implemented. Turning is definitely hard on the head to code for, but the toolpath seems pretty good from the roughing algorithm, next I need to add a tool geometry collision adjuster to make the path right to the tool, at the moment the path is correct only to the tool's reported tool tip radius, and while the simulation is wrong since it doesnt take into account that radius in the 3d generations, the path is correct and seems quite efficient for any radius tool held by a toolholder that wont collide with the object. Hopefully, collision wont take me as long as the pathing.. but it sounds hard, so I wouldnt count on it.... :-)

 Video canbe seen at :
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXRsj313BfQ


Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on July 08, 2008, 04:39:06 PM
Thanks for sharing, Art, I'm waiting very patiently...  ;)


Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on July 09, 2008, 02:26:06 AM
Wow

Looks better then A sex video.

Thanks Art

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on July 09, 2008, 10:48:36 AM
Hi Art,

my chess king is looking more and more like a production part, looking good, keep up the good work.

I have the full set if you need them for testing.

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 10, 2008, 02:31:11 PM
Graham:

 Thx, I have them now. The queen woudlnt load due to a arc in there smaller than the connection tolerance. Ive done a bug fix and that is now sensed so all of them look nice now. They seem to rough well as well, so I suspect collision detection will fix up their paths to be perfect.

 Chip: I have the test file you uploaded, I see it fails the load, Ill find whats wrong. You know the load failed if you dont get a spun profile immediatley, if you do get one, then the load worked fine.

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: peu on July 13, 2008, 09:26:51 PM
me-wants-lazyturn!

Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on July 14, 2008, 02:51:15 AM
Hi Art

Where will I be able to download the dxf for the chess piece that you use in Lazyturn?

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on July 14, 2008, 11:35:31 AM
Sorry chaps, the chess DXF's are only for Arts testing purposes. They actually belong to me and I sent them to Art because the proved difficult to load into Lazyturn.

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on July 14, 2008, 04:36:31 PM
Okee Graham

I understand.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: cjmerlin on July 15, 2008, 08:51:38 AM
Hi Art, Very impressive,Nice work.


Another patiently waiting lathe'er.


Cheers
John
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Perfo on July 16, 2008, 12:08:11 AM
As I¡¦m newbie and lazy I think I fit the profile mentioned on page one of this thread. Will LT also set the feed rate/spindle speed depending on material type? Thus as well as picking the diameter you could also pick the material and auto generate suggested feed and spindle speeds.  Of course they could then be adjusted by folks that think they know better but for me it would be a very handy hint. I hope this isn¡¦t a silly suggestion. ƒº
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 16, 2008, 07:03:34 PM
Hello Art & everyone
Just checking in, is LT available yet for any kind of testing i have been waiting since i first purchased Mach-3 and LC it's the reason i bought it in the first place.


Rg's
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 19, 2008, 10:28:36 AM
Hi Dennis:

  A play version of LT is in the FTP site. The downloads page of the website has a link called "More information". Click there..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on July 19, 2008, 10:36:24 AM
Hi Art,
What is "FTP" and where is it ?
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Ben on July 19, 2008, 11:12:26 AM
I found it at "ftp://MachSupport.com/". Select the LazyTurn folder and download the zip file. Good luck. Ben
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 19, 2008, 02:10:59 PM
Art
Thanks i will be looking at it hopefully it won't be to long until a working version is available.
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 27, 2008, 10:09:55 PM
Hi Guys..

  Just so you can see how collision detection changes a toolpath, here is a sample output of latest development version...

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on July 27, 2008, 10:27:34 PM
Hi, Art

How dose a cutoff type tool look.

Thanks for the up-date.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on July 28, 2008, 12:00:34 PM
Not sure I completely understand what you're showing but it looks great!  ;)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on July 28, 2008, 12:07:32 PM
Really enjoy these "Previews of Coming Attractions"........Can hardly wait for the "Feature Presentation".
Keep up the good work.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on July 28, 2008, 12:46:14 PM
That looks great Art.

For those who do not get what is being shown  here :-

What Art is trying to show is that the tool shape is being taken into account when the profile of the part is roughed out,  the unshaded parts are where the tool can not cut without gouging into the finished part.

If you look at the previous examples the tool could not have produced the shaded lines without the part being over cut in certain areas, this was before the collision detection was working.

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on July 28, 2008, 01:11:50 PM
Then I did understand it completely (for once  ;) ) and I thank you for taking the time to share that -

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 28, 2008, 06:31:18 PM
Great Work Art
It's exactly what i would expect, it ran as it should waiting for the finished product it looks like it should run ok now.

rg's
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on July 29, 2008, 01:02:49 PM
Hi,
Why does this show a collision on the trailing edge at the arrow ? No clearance like the Pawn ?
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on July 29, 2008, 01:24:42 PM
Tool collision was not implemented when that demo picture was posted.

The tool should not have cut any of the parts inside the white circles,  the only part of the tool that was being checked was the nose radius, now the whole shape of the tool is taken into account.

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on July 29, 2008, 02:21:31 PM
Graham,
I just downloaded this version from the site metioned by BEN a few posts back.
Then opened the DXF for the King that I saved early on.

Is there a later version ? If so..where can I get it.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on July 29, 2008, 02:30:10 PM
I don't think Art has released the latest version yet.  :(

Graham.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on July 29, 2008, 02:35:13 PM
OH...Sorry for the confusion Graham. By reading DennisF's post, I assumed that the latest release was working to this extent.
Thanks for the clarification.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 30, 2008, 11:12:20 AM
Overloaded
 Sorry if i made you think it was a finished product i poorly stated a thought, my thought was that from the test version it looked as though the program was ready to go.

Rg's
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on July 30, 2008, 11:20:17 AM
No prob Dennis....that's what I get for making assumptions.
I didn't assume it was finished, just thought the collision part was ready to play with.
I guess I'm just a little over enthusiastic about this project.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 30, 2008, 09:17:04 PM
Looked in my crystal ball and saw something good happening in the near future.
There was Art releasing LazyTurn!

Art, I personally want you to know that your efforts are really apprciated.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Perfo on August 02, 2008, 09:24:53 PM
I see various mentions of cutting chess pieces with LazyTurn how would you do the knight? Is anyone going to be kind enough to post a set of G-codes to make a chess set? I'd like to make a shiny stainless steel set one day for the father in law as he's a keen chess player and would really appreciate a personal set like that's especially on an inlaid chess board. << dreaming of projects to come......
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on August 02, 2008, 10:45:19 PM
http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/171191
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Perfo on August 02, 2008, 10:55:23 PM
Some nice pieces there thanks. Not having done many DXF to Gcode conversions (read this as none)  how would you know by downloading a DXF if your 3 axis mill will be able to make it once Mach 3 has got hold of the DXF and converted it? The Knight looks a little tricky with 3 axis.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Hood on August 03, 2008, 03:34:13 AM
The knight would have to be 4 axis, either that or do one side and then flip and do the other.
Hood
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Perfo on August 03, 2008, 07:06:57 PM
Do you use lazyturn on a mill as well or only on Lathes ? I can see me wanting to put another axis on once I get going to do this kind of thing. Learn to walk before running I must constantly remind myself of that :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chaoticone on August 03, 2008, 07:55:54 PM
Lazy turn is for turning and Lazycam is for millig, plasma, router, waterjet, ect.

Brett.

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Hood on August 04, 2008, 05:47:44 AM
But if you add a 4th axis to the mill and use it as a spindle, mount a lathe tool in a clamp in the Z Axis and use it as an X axis and use the X axis as a Z axis then you would use MachTurn and LazyTurn :D

Hood
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Perfo on August 04, 2008, 08:47:04 PM
Nice. If you can understand it :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on August 05, 2008, 01:46:22 PM
Nice. If you can understand it :)

one picture = 1000 words!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbfXXeiSHsw
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Hood on August 05, 2008, 02:00:20 PM
Nice. If you can understand it :)

one picture = 1000 words!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbfXXeiSHsw

Not exactly what I was meaning but yes that is another way to do it :)

Hood
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Hood on August 05, 2008, 02:03:38 PM


This was more like what I was meaning except instead of mounting the lathe on the mill it would just be your 4th axis.

http://tormach.com/Product_PCNC_lathe.html

Hood
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on August 05, 2008, 07:02:05 PM
Somewhere on CNCZone (can't find it now), some guy mounted a small wood lathe on the bed. Changed for metalworking chuck and held cutting tool on the spindle. Reconfigure new Mach profile to use spindle as Y axis and X table movement as Z axis then use lathe g code

Off topic but nothing else happening here.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Perfo on August 05, 2008, 08:07:57 PM
Some nice work on both those links. Its interesting to see the different tools on the mill bed and thus no need for a tool changer. I suppose when most think of a 4th axis on a small mill they are thinking of indexing heads (at least I was) but no reason why you couldn't use it to turn if the motors are big enough and are geared to get enough speed.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: stcnc on August 05, 2008, 08:16:02 PM
Waiting for Lasy Turn too! I made a lathe2mill 4th Axis setup for my X2 can be seen at:
http://www.cad2gcode.com/cncprojects
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Perfo on August 05, 2008, 09:34:10 PM
Nice work.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on September 10, 2008, 11:30:00 AM
Hi Art & guy's it's been pretty quite anything going on? still waiting.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on September 26, 2008, 11:55:49 PM
Greetings,

Just found this discussion in my search for Lathe CAM software.  I downloaded the LazyTurn file at the begining of this discussion but the program crashes everytime I try to open a dxf.

Does LazyTurn work?
Is there documentation anywhere for it?
It seems like folks are waiting for something on discussion. Could it be an updated version of LazyTurn?

Please advise.

Thanks much,
Kerry Harrison
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on September 27, 2008, 01:32:54 AM
Kerry ,
Read through tis topic.....ART's post's in particular.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,8479.0.html
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Vince Endter on October 05, 2008, 11:36:21 AM
I am trying to made a profile for Lazyturn.  I thought I read somewhere it had to be drawn in the XZ plane.  I am using AutoCAD 2000.  Does anyone know how to change AutoCAD so it is drawing in the XZ plane?

Thanks

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on October 05, 2008, 03:22:39 PM
Vince,
No, you don't need to draw in the XZ plane.

I do not think you can change the axis definitions in Autocad or Microstation such that Z equals the X axis or for that matter Y equals the X axis when drawing. My CAD experts at work only laughed at me when i asked them to do a modificatioin to the dxf conversion tables so i could convert it that way. Looked at the 2" thick manual and gave up! I let that brainy idea die.

Just draw as normal the lathe programs will do the rest.

Lazyturn is not ready for use, use Lazcam Turn, and be ready to invest some time for learning it.
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: cliveastro on October 06, 2008, 03:29:39 PM
Hi Art
I feel a bit of dunce but I cant get the files to open.
If I run the Lazy turn exe file and load the dxf files I get An open GL error.
And if I run it inside lazycam there is nothing on the screen.
To be fair I have never manged to run anything in lazy cam.
I have used d2nc succesfully and I have been using Autocad for 20+ years and can use Solidworks.

Clive
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on October 06, 2008, 08:28:35 PM
Clive,
Post your dxf file and I'll give it try in Lazcam.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: cliveastro on October 07, 2008, 01:14:12 PM
Hi Rich
I tried it with the sample file "ainsideprofile.dxf" so its not the DXF file.

Clive
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on October 07, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
Clive,
I assume you mean "ainnerprofile.dxf" which is in the MACH3>LCAMSAMPLES folder created on your drive when Mach was installed?
If that's the one, it imports, clean and converts just fine in Lazycam.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 05, 2008, 03:14:34 PM
From the "OTHER" forum.....Breaking news.
AND IT"S NOT EVEN WINTER YET !
Way to go ART !



Hi Guys:

There is an experimental version of LazyTurn to be put on the downloads site
shortly, it is primarily a test of LazyTurns DXF importing and rough profileing
code. It will post Gcode of a created rough toolpath. There are no docs , but
its pretty intuitive, none are really needed. There is a thread on the web group
for any questions about how it works, and Id like to see any DXF's
that look good, or any that fail.

Dont install the LCam update unless your playing with Turning as Im unsure how
the updated dll's will afect lazycamuntill I get some reports. SO this is for
experimenters only who want rough profiles done. LazyTurn needs a couple more
things done before I can put out a finish pass, first the graphics of the
"material left over" is only accurate for a button tool at present, once I make
that accurate to all tools I can do a "finish-rough" stage to remove material
harmfull to a finish tool, and then ,finally, a finish pass.

Currently you can load a dxf, setup a tool library, and generate rough
profiles at any pass per depth, then post the file. Seems to run well in Mach3.
Any experiences welcome.. just enter the web based forums lazyturn thread.
Update should be posted on the web soon, its been sent to Brian.


Thanks,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 05, 2008, 05:43:47 PM
Thank's for the notice RC,
I hope that all those interested in a neat lathe software program would "come alive" and get involved by trying it out
witin the described capabilities. This is one of Art's pet personal projects and he's providing effort for the CNC turning
community that frankly you won't find otherwise. It's only by use, via a diversity of users, that can quickly find and show what otherwise would take a long time. The quicker he can indentiify faults with the roughing cuts the faster he may
get to the end. So cnc turners, try it and bitch now ( ok, lets reword that to be politicaly correct  " providing positive feedback" ) or forever hold your piece! ;D

What would be the best way for playing around safely? ???
IE; Do an additional complete install of Mach *********.15 / including Lazycam under a different directory so you can delete it if need be?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on November 07, 2008, 10:13:15 AM
Definitely interested in participation but can't find the download. How about posting a link here?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 07, 2008, 11:10:17 AM
This just in........

Hi Guys:

The test I spoke of earlier of LazyTurn is included in this file..

http://www.machsupport.com/downloads/LazyCam3.00.2_Update.exe

Once installed, you can play with Lazyturn by running lazyturn.exe in the
resultant folder.
If you change its install location rom c:\Mach3 to another locatin it shoudl run
as a standalone package of an updated LCam, and LTurn.



Thanks,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on November 07, 2008, 01:58:50 PM
Hi Art

First I get a few errors of missing dll files but after copying the necessarily files from the Mach3 folder it starts.
I try to load the pulley.dxf (used somewhere before) i get an error "no appropriate turningprofile was found" after that i get an error "Clazyturnvieuw an opengl error occurred:ongeldige waarde " (the last part is Dutch)

Greetings:
Willem

Sorry, my mistake, i have taken an older version of Lazyturn so above message is not correct.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 07, 2008, 07:36:04 PM
Hi Art,
Attached is the dxf file and some comments.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 07, 2008, 09:32:23 PM
Hi, Art

Now this is looking Pretty Lazy, Pic.'s of Graham's King.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on November 07, 2008, 09:55:28 PM
Art
Am i missing something I downloaded the file you gave as a link and it put lazy cam on my computer I see no reference to Lazy Turn within it.
Jim
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 07, 2008, 11:13:52 PM
Hi, Jim

Do a search in Windows Explorer for LaxyTurn, See Pic.

Hope this Helps, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 08, 2008, 11:59:48 AM
Hi All,
A few comments after doing some additional tests.
- suggest restarting  your computer post installation of the update

I was getting a lot of openGL errors on "small parts" but as the parts were increased in size the errors went away.
I still can't get the full part to import. Seems like it's clipping it off were a curve meets a line. The points in CAD
are the same to "four places" in the cads tolerence info and the files work in other programs ( will check them out to 6 places and post the enlarged file later ). BTW usiing inches and radius.
 Had to fool with the button tool and cuts, equivilant to what happens in lazycam to get rough cuts , but, will forget about that as i believe this is just about testing for DXG import capability.

Will try to do some more testing in a more disciplined way.

MODIFIED: Added attached DXF file for the three balls. Note that this files is an  Ver 12 dxf and all points connect within 6 decimal places.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 08, 2008, 07:55:06 PM
Hi, Art

While I've had a few Open-GL errors, L-Turn hasn't crashed and seems Robust.

Hear are 2 Pic's & 2 DXF's that Arc.'s are missed on rough tool path, There for a Axial Compressor Inlet In/Ex-Ducser profile.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 08, 2008, 08:35:00 PM
Hope you don't mind Chip, but wanted to see if it was my computer or something stupid i was doing.
I shrunk your file down( about four different sizes) and flipped it and could generate any cuts i wanted. Here is just one example.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 08, 2008, 09:31:00 PM
Hi, RICH

The More the Better, Hears a pic in Mach and Txt post done in BobCad v21 of what should be cutting, It's a inside cut starting at X0 Z0 moving Z- X+ outwards with a pre-drilled center hole in the stock.

So the top pic in my previous post is pretty close except for the arc missing.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 08, 2008, 10:23:39 PM
Thx guys..

 I have the dxf's. Ill let you know what I find. Ive been using those chess pieces as test object s for the most part. Any failures will help me find if my logic is flawed, or if I need to modify some of the import functions..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 09, 2008, 12:05:11 AM
Hi, Art

That chess King posted so nice, There are allot of shapes to deal with, BC looks like this, Got any BC Powder's.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 09, 2008, 11:36:48 AM
Art,
Some more tests relative to Lazyturn not showing complete profile on import.
I am attaching files 1B, 2, 3. I figured it may be a drawing problem but shouldn't be.

A few comments about what is shown in the creen captures from lazyturn:

A drawing was created in Autocad and 1 was rejected because of the dot in the drawing
as shown in DOT IN 2. With the dot removed only got a partial import as shown in 1B.
Modifying the drawing by adding another taper as shown in 2 worked and then removing
removing the taper and going back to a face as in 3 it also worked.

Note that in 1C & 1D i changed the direction of how the line was drawn but still was a no go but did seem to
add to the import.

RICH   
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on November 09, 2008, 05:13:14 PM
Hi guys

I had one time a toolpath, now every time when i try to make a toolpath the program shuts down with an errorreport to microsoft(error in TODO)
This error occurs in every dxf i load
I was running Lazyturn on a laptop so maybe that is the problem.
If i give the tool an other shape (triangle) then it works (not yet good but...)
P.S.
If i load the rich Threeballs.dxf from answer 198 i see only 2 balls (it is not complete)

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 09, 2008, 05:56:51 PM
Willem,
The three balls file is complete but for whatever reason LazyTurn will not   fully   load it for me either and that's why i posted it.
I have found a number of DXF's where that is the case. Provided it as a clue, Art may be able to see if it's the importer or is it a CAD issue. 
Take note of my last post. I create DXF's out of two versions of Autocad and three versions of Microstation for a total of 9-12 dXF's of the same profile drawing sometimes. Trust me that they are they do not necessarily export the same sometimes. But for now strictly trying to DXf  out to a ver 12 as that worked in LazyCam.   Your not alone on the TODO but don't even remember what i did. You may try rebooting the PC.
BTW only use the "button tool" for now, i think Art said that back a few posts.

Will post a version of Chips file, which i shrunk and rotated which worked fine, thus you can play with it or try his other files.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 09, 2008, 07:16:32 PM
Hi, Art, Rich

Got the 3 ball to load after load/save in Rino dxf, Then reversing the left end line and extending it helped Rough path on the left ball.

DXF formats differ So much, It's really sad,. Hears the dxf and 2 pic's, Still some Open GL stack overflows, But no major crashes. Is there a way to halt/stop or abort path generation when I Enter a to small Depth Per Pass Value. ?

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 09, 2008, 08:59:06 PM
Thanks Chip,
A fast computer really comes in handy when going back and forth on the path generation.
I always start out with something  like a .1 depth just see if it works.    BTW 0..1 doesn't work to well. ;D

Will shrink the file down and see if there are any effects. Also curious on what the dxf exchange will be like.

I'll need to check out some of the other files that were failing. It's cutting them off right at a joint, and think that
how the lines were joined / trimmed reverses the direction  and the importer thinks there is no more profile.
How is that for a wild ask guess! Drawing sequence of the path cannot be allowed to influence the import.
Can you image the problems users would have!
 
You must admit though, that if this comes to pass, this will be one neat program.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 09, 2008, 10:10:19 PM
Hi Guys:

  Turns out a small typo was killing the 3balls dxf, my fault..not dxf itself.

Here is an update ..this also has a small diagnostic that shows all the entities in the load.. it will be removed after we see whats up.

The flanges were drawn in negative Y..illegal under LTurn, all Y's must be 0 or greater. Once I fixed the load, the 3balls works fine.

Few notes..

In the options menu item is a startZ offset, this is how far the tool starts from end of the object.. Its defaulted to 8mm for metric so youd want to be .3 or so I think..

Clearance is how far away to stay fromthe object, so for standard gys.. probably about .01, for metric about .1mm. PerPass depth is up to you. :)

  Send more files that fail as you find them, I do intend to do a draw function so you can draw your own in the end. The flanges are a bad test as they were negative so shouldnt have loaded anyway..they now warn fo failure due to negative Y's. Im hopefull we can fix up any load errors as we go and Ill make LTurn fix them on the fly when it can, negative Y's cannot be fixed automatically as arcs' reverse in that case and I cannot "suppose" that arcs may be reversed
at the same time as the Y's "may" be shifted. (there may be other failures due to Y negatives that dont fall into that category.

Thx for the testing, let me know how it goes..

Art


 



Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 09, 2008, 10:12:24 PM
>>BTW only use the "button tool" for now, i think Art said that back a few posts.

One other note , Rich.. You may use any tool, but the graphic that shows the amount left to cut will be wrong, the toolpath however will be correct on any tool.
I need to fix the graphics for "amount cut" before I can do a proper finish-rough routine is all.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 09, 2008, 10:38:21 PM
Thanks Art,
Now that's the way I like it. Quickly opened up bunch of  those files that didn't work before.  :)
Now i quess it's time to play "stump the importer"! ;)
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 09, 2008, 11:13:31 PM
Rich:

  This version also has an "Auto-Connection Tolerance" code added. In theory it should load DXF's with less trouble than before.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 10, 2008, 12:52:59 AM
Hi, Art

How will Inside cuts be handled.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 10, 2008, 03:13:14 AM
Hi, Rich, Art & All

The LIGHT went Bright, I was so busy Snapping shapes on a Grid and Posting, I didn't pay attention to the Grid Scale Setting's.

Haven't gone back to check, So if there Huge, Sorry for the HUGE Drawings.!!!

I'm Plenty Excited About LazyTurn & LazyCam for Sure.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on November 10, 2008, 03:58:54 AM
Hi Rich/Art

Found out that the TODO error comes with settings in the tool but what cause it ?????????
I think it is going to be a great program what will be exactly what i need thanks Art.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 10, 2008, 09:43:33 AM
HI Guys:

  If you get a //ToDo error, let me know how..

 Chip:  Inside cuts wont get done till weve totally replaced the LazyCam functionallity. Then Ill try to figure a way for that. This program is all done by me, Im
not using anyoine elses pocket code so its slow hacking and I figure out the algorithms as I go. :)

DXF's should now load better than ever though.. the optimiser seems much more happy overall..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 10, 2008, 01:10:42 PM
Here's a TODO.....when attempting to open the attached DXF
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 10, 2008, 01:13:44 PM
thx.. Ill find out why..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 10, 2008, 02:39:25 PM
Hi Guys:

  Todo was caused on that one by the leading line being vertical and not part of the actual cut profile. Safeties have been added and this one now passes.

Post any others that affect you with Todo's or crashes, Ill fix them one by one till we're robust.

Graham reports crash on toolpath generation..I havent seen this one, anyone else?

 This version fixes the posted Todo Crash.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 10, 2008, 06:18:05 PM
Hi:

  Sorry to keep updateing, but this one cures more problems with pathing.. and also shows the loaded profile better.
Note the lines it adds to the start and end of profile to allow for proper pathing. Rear ruler is moved back to allow you to see the
actual profile entities. You neednt draw the start and end lines, they will be added automatically if not there..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 10, 2008, 06:21:26 PM
Never be sorry for updating Art, I just wish I could put in some helpful input for you to use but I'm still a yutz when it comes to turn.
 
Thanks for working so hard on this!  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 10, 2008, 06:37:42 PM
Hey Dave,
What CAD software are you using? Just draw something and dxf it out.  .....or......
Attached is  a file that works.
Import it and save it in your native CAD program  then just export it back out. This will give another version of software dxf output to test. I am limited to Autocad and Microstation.
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 10, 2008, 08:02:39 PM
ART,
Using 10-2 update. 
I had to show this one as this would be a PITA with some other software. Need a fast PC guys as it took 5 mins for it to generate the passes.
Just a question, is my interpretaion of 0 - 90 -180 setting correct for the button tool in that it indicates how the tool holder would be positioned?
In the other screen shot i was wondering if it would be worth having other info added to the tool description. No hurry but your making
this me lazy. ;D
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 10, 2008, 09:56:05 PM
Hi Rich:


  Cool photo. :)

 In a button tool the angle means nothing.  All tools are assumed to be poitning in until such time as I allow facing.
The angle input is simply the rotation for other bit shapes, but buttons are alwasy set to 0 degrees internally, there
is no effect from rotating the button insert.

  Nice to see the undercut work, but Its a fluke of the algorithm I wrote. That'd be a tough cut ot be sure of as youd have to make sure that holder was weirdly enough shaped to allow for that cut.
The actual result you got is due to the fact I use only the actual tool insert for collision detection, though I did intend to upgrade that some day to take the holder into account. ( which is why the hodler size is specified, but unused at this point.

 Looks like its loading better all the time though, and with the right holder I suppose you could cut that particular cut. LOL

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 11, 2008, 06:54:52 AM
Thanks for the info Art as it saves me time. I did get a number of TODO's but will go back now and see what their
related to and make a list. How relevant they are will be for your judgement.

As far as the algorithm being a fluke.... sometimes a fluke can be an advantage. For instance, from a "practical machining" point with defined inserts and toolholder restrictions, you wouldn't be able to machine something, but if it's small turnings and "the tool shape" is up to the user ( ie; just give me the profile cuts and i will worry about the tool), then any gcode for any profile would be easily possible. So, maybe as an option, using the button tool and no restraints because of holder, you get something that no other program gives you with ease. Hope this makes sense.

Now from a programming point of view, something like the above could end up just adding complexity to the program which is not worth doing. Don't want to poison your focus but maybe something to think about.

RICH

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 11, 2008, 07:39:45 AM
RICH,
  Tool tip straight up is 0 deg. Left is neg. deg., right is pos. deg.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on November 11, 2008, 09:39:09 AM
I get an error just trying to install LTurn, any suggestions?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 11, 2008, 09:43:12 AM
jhowelb,
Put lazyturn.exe in the folder with mach or wherever you installed lazycam.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on November 11, 2008, 09:51:00 AM
Figured it out, the update is not an installer but is the new file to be placed in the Mach folder.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 11, 2008, 09:55:52 AM
RICH,
I like your suggestion about the Button tool with NO restraints on the tool holder.
I have applications where that would be extremely handy.
Especially when finish pass and face cutting come into being.
Thanks,
RC

EDIT: And re-reading your earlier angle question, I see that my response was not what you needed.
But...it may be of help to others for reference to the orientation of the other inserts.
Thanks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 11, 2008, 11:25:06 AM
Rich:

  True enough, I can see where you could designa holder to cut that one for example..but it isnbt right, I see the lobes are cutting off..

Im still working on the why's of that one. Ive found some further errors, but they are complex to repair so it'll be a few days while I take that into account.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: tantan on November 11, 2008, 02:42:11 PM
hi, everything works fine on my computer (vista) except generating G-Code. when i import the Aouterprofile.dxf file, select tool and generate toolpath all is OK. when I generate G-Code lazyturn asks for the prolog and filename. after that notepad opens but without G-Code?

thanks

antoine
the netherlands
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 11, 2008, 04:53:17 PM
Ok, had a little time to play today and did a few tests with some profiles but I'm not sure how much help I'll be.

I used this profile from Rich the first time with success :

(http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5767.0;id=7089;image)

I had these results in the pics below. Pay no attention to the missing cut lines as I paused through it part way and it really did seem to "cut" everything well. I'm also including my Diamond tool profile so that you can see exactly what I used.

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 11, 2008, 04:57:57 PM
Hi Guys:

 hmm, seems some of you have openGL issues of some kind.. Im still searching..

As to Vista, yes, it does fail to save the file, its another hting Im tracking down.

Thanks,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 11, 2008, 05:30:00 PM
Hi Art, if it helps, I'm using an Nvidia Geforce 6800 video card.

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 11, 2008, 08:26:26 PM
Hi, Art

Some DXF tests with 10-2, BobCad,v18,v21,v22,Rino v2.0, TurboCad v8.1, All are working Much better now.

Hear's a Ellips with no leadin's it misses left half rough cut paths, If you add leads, It loaded and I was able to get a full cut path with allot of opengl overflows along the way.

Have a fiew others with issues, But all-n-all, Wow this is Nice.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: marcel beaudry on November 11, 2008, 08:48:03 PM
Hello Art

Nice to see your work in lazy cam c´ant wait to see it finished. It as so much potential . will it work with windows XP

Marcel Beaudry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 11, 2008, 11:51:42 PM
Hi, Marcel

Yes it works in windows XP.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 12, 2008, 03:25:23 PM
Hi, Art

This King was about 250 units long and loads fine, When it's scaled to 2.50 units it causes open-gl errors.

Pic & Dxf Att.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 12, 2008, 06:34:10 PM
Hi Chip & All,
Took your small file as is and had errors in Lazycam.
Then did the following with it in this order:
- open in Autocad 2000i and exploded it into individual components and saved as a dxf v12
- imported into Microstation and now exported it as a 2d file ( was 3d on import)
- brought the 2d dxf into Microstation and rotated it around and was saved as a v11 dxf
- brought the v11 dxf into Autocad, relocated to o,o origin and saved it as v12 dxf
Now let Lazcam import it and no errors while in doing a very fine cut to generate toolpaths.

Quess it's just magic.   ???

RICH

MODIFIED: ADDED THE DXF FILE

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 12, 2008, 06:45:58 PM
interesting -  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 12, 2008, 07:13:33 PM
Art,
Question for you.
What type of feedback or what would be of most value for you? ie;
Just because the file was manipulated and then worked may be useless for your needs.
Would you want a short description, or , dxf's along the way of the conversion?
Like starting dxf, one converted dxf, then dxf of one that worked.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 12, 2008, 09:08:20 PM
The candle holder is done.
Here are a few positive comments:
- The line on another line in the profile is ignored as long as it is not connected.
- A line close to the profile is ignored (.002") as long as it is not connected to the profile
- You can't have a line inside the profile ( of course no line can go into the negative )
- Text or a dimension can't be left on the drawing or you'll get no profile on import.
Attached for others to play with.
RICH

 

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 12, 2008, 09:59:29 PM
Hi, Rich

The King dxf I posted is about 2.3/4 inch's tall ( 2.750 Units), If I scale it up to 65 Units it loads fine.

The original King drawing was 250 units more or less, and loaded fine also, Would you post the working dxf you have.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 13, 2008, 01:03:42 AM
Hi, Rich, Art & All

Looks like the generated Solid object isn't following the DXF's profile properly, Top Pic.

Solid object profile is being used to generate the Rough cut path, Bot. Pic.

Looking Nice Art, Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 13, 2008, 07:16:23 AM
Chip,
Modified my reply #244 to add the dxf file.
I haven't paid too much attention to the portrayal of  roughing graphics to date.
Figured the file needs to import and generate a roughing cut reasonably close / in the ballpark
and leave interpretation of graphic quality up to Art for now. Don't know what to expect on the graphics at this
point. At some time it should portray only on one side, ......hey here's a cloud above my head.....
if something appears above the displayed porfile could it be used as a clue of whats wrong on the drawn profile......
If gode was generated, will back plot the gcode and compare agaisnt the original profile for just for kicks on a few.

Time for work,
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 13, 2008, 09:08:53 AM
Question:
  Where is the stock size initially described and why this error when attempting to change the stock size at the X scale ?
Also, in setting up a grooving tool, the IC appears to be the width of the tool and Radius can be zero. The length of the tool projection seems to be equal to the Holder length. More on that later.

Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 13, 2008, 08:00:15 PM
Art,
A few comments and errors created when using 8.dxf from post #247.
They are noted  1,2,3,4 in red in the jpg attached.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 13, 2008, 08:21:31 PM
Art,
Her is another TODO error. Created by input of a small value for the inscribed circle.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 13, 2008, 09:52:09 PM
Hi, Rich

I found that BobCad v22 DXF's are saving as ACAD R14 "AC1014" format, LazyCam/LazyTurn seems to be happiest with AC1006 (R10) & AC1009 (R11/R12) DXF's, Thanks for posting the File.

RC: Post your dxf and check the AC # as listed above.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 13, 2008, 10:47:02 PM
CHIP,
Here is the DXF.
This is how I save them all.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 14, 2008, 12:09:20 AM
Hi, RC

I was able to reproduce the issue hear.

If you look into it further, There seem to be an Issue with the Stock Dia, Profile Dia and Posted G-code Diameter, Values.

Final Part should be 2.00 (R 1.00 x 2=2.00), G-code shows ( R 1.3225) or 2.645 Dia., Same as Stock Dir. Shown, I Think.

Pretty, Wild, Nice & Wonderful Program

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 14, 2008, 09:30:24 AM
Hi Chip,
Wild, Nice and Wonderful...I agree.

Did you try to change the values at the slider scale ?
I get the error every time on all dxf's.

Thanks Chip,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 14, 2008, 01:04:58 PM
Hi, RC

Yes, Start z position works + & -, Stock, Profile "Dia.s" only seem to work if you increase the values, Errors if you try to set them below there Initial values.

Chip

Edit: Hears a dxf & tap file, You can adjust to a dia. closer to what you want.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 15, 2008, 08:53:23 AM
Chip,
Are you positing code out of LazyTurn?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 15, 2008, 10:39:04 AM
Very good Chip.
  So I need to modify the dwg to a much smaller OD, then expand it in LT.
But I suppose it will be like the earlier versions eventually.
And...like Rich said, what did you generate the tap file with ?
Thanks Chip,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 15, 2008, 11:56:58 AM
Hi, RC, Rich

Generated the tap file with  LazyTurn, Yes, Kept the major profile and reduced the overall OD.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 15, 2008, 03:42:11 PM
Thanks Chip.
  I didnt realize LT was ready to post the tap file......working pretty good, only slight mods needed. (in simulation of course)
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 15, 2008, 05:28:40 PM
Hi All,
In case you want to look at the profile differently.
DOUBLE CLICK RIGHT MOUSE BUTTON TO BRING BACK TO REGULAR VIEW
ART gets another atta-boy. :)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 15, 2008, 07:53:51 PM
Hi Rich,
Holding the mouse wheel did that since the beginning. Also, if you hold the wheel down, then move the cursor off of the blue field, then release the wheel, when the cursor is directed back over the blue field the image will still rotate and spin until the wheel is clicked again while the cursor is in the blue field.
Cool,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 15, 2008, 09:33:55 PM
Hi guys:

  I have the Vista issue fixed so it will post in Vista, and have added some error sensing code as well. But Im working on the small number issue, metric seems good, but inch mode is bugged. ( damn standard measures..), Ill release when I find all the error points..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 18, 2008, 10:17:04 AM
Hi Guys:

  Here's a much less annoying version.

1) Cancel a toolpath gen by clicking the left mouse button.
2) Small dimension tools shoudl be OK now. If you zoom in to a very small
tool in a window you WILL see arcs cut off into small lines, but this is display only,
the actual radial arcs are taken into full account in the pathing.
3) Errors are generated for internal errors like self-interseting contours generated.
4) Posting in Vista.. this can be done BUT take note that UAC in Vista may require you to put
the file into a legal spot like the folder LazyTurn is currently in. ( Vista pisses me off!! :)   )

  This is all very complex in terms of some of the things it does, so Im trying to catch as much as I can in errors,
soem of the small number ( standard measure) items wern;t as bad as I originally thought, some as a simple typo
in the tip generation code. ( any arc less than the size of a pixel was ignored, it caused OpenGL errors.

 More bugs exist Im sure, but this version should work better for you than previous ones.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 18, 2008, 12:18:00 PM
Hi, Art

Getting these error's with new update Nov 18, Using Win XP, Any idea's

Old version Ok

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 18, 2008, 12:28:17 PM
Same here Chip.
Strange...cannot close the box and cannot close LT.
RC


Also.....it's hung up tying knots of some sort.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 18, 2008, 12:37:06 PM
Another thing.....If I click on YES, it quits the op. Click on NO and it hangs up. But if I hit the N key instead, it generates the tool path as before.
Strange.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 18, 2008, 12:39:41 PM
Chip,
As soon as you get the "Keyboard Hit" window, hit your N key and see what you get.
Thanks,
RC

Hmmmmmm......Never saw a Keyboard Hit pop-up before. I guess it means use the keyboard and not the mouse.....idiot. ::)
But the YES button works if you click on it first. If you click on the NO, then the mouse does nothing on YES or NO.
Learn something new every day. Still pc illiterate.  :D
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 18, 2008, 01:17:07 PM
Hi, RC, Art

Yes I see, It doesn't like the mouse click's, "N" to Continue, Second Post attempt it error's to TODO shutdown.

Art, I think you let a "Rat"  lose with the Vista Fix Stuff !!  ???

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 18, 2008, 07:57:10 PM
Hi, Art

I asked this early on in LazyTurn development as have others.

Would you please give us an Option to Just turn off the Tool Collision Avoidance feature.

I now it's a valuable feature and I'm willing to test it, But in the overall scope of being "Lazy" it's way out there.

It dose seem to work very well with some Tool's, Some Cam's you can turn it off.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 18, 2008, 08:33:56 PM
Chip,
Curious, how does that help in the machining and when do you use it?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 18, 2008, 08:53:14 PM
I get a TODO if you put a small (.001 ) value  in for the button tool only for INSCRIBED CIRCLE value.
Just hacking  away  at the latest version.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 19, 2008, 11:36:16 AM
Chip:

>>Would you please give us an Option to Just turn off the Tool Collision Avoidance feature.

  There will be no way to turn that off, its operation is actually intrinsic to the calculation of the path itself. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 19, 2008, 12:07:21 PM
Hi Guys:

  The Keyboard Hit message was a typo, its fixed, it just tells you that youve clicked the mouse and asks if you wish to cancel the path.
I fixed up some object deletion in that event so the ToDo's have probably left on it.

  This version fixes a couepl other things as well. It should be reacting better and better to your tests with each version really..

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 19, 2008, 12:56:04 PM
Hi, Art

The mouse click on "NO" just seems to step you through the sort, Only the "N" press key seems to execute the sort routine.

Yesterday was a tool setting and crash fiasco hear !!, Much better today.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 19, 2008, 03:05:08 PM
Hi, Art

File open error in posting code now, Code seems to be generating faster.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 19, 2008, 09:57:46 PM
Hi ART,
-Seems like the smallest value for the "iniscribed circle" in the tools is .1, will go larger but not smaller.
-It would be nice if you could stop the back and forth motion of the tool in the future

-The depth per pass is initialy set by the tool radius when the rough profile window opens. If you change the
depth per pass to a different value, it is not saved and reverts back to what the tool radius defined it.
Is this intentional....a reminder of what the tool radius is?

-Some of the rough profiles which were generated based on "small depth passes" can take a fair amount of time.
Long enough in time that you start thinking there is a problem / the pc locked up. The progress line becomes void of movement.Don't know if it's a worth fix, like "ok my friend still working on it" or an audio sound after a minute.
Note that this is not the norm.
RICH



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 19, 2008, 10:05:15 PM
I'm all for the stationary tool display as well.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 19, 2008, 11:52:42 PM
Hi Rich:

 Ill stop the tool rotation, I just needed to see the side of it while debuigging..

 The radius setting is just a reminder of the tool radius, but Ill make it perist to your last cut.
The inscibed circle is set to a minimum of .1 , I cant see any tool having an inscribed radius that small myself, that means the entire tool is only .2" wide at a maximum if the inscribed circle is .1

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on November 20, 2008, 03:50:27 AM
Hi Art,

Just to throw a spanner in the works  ;)

I use tools with an IC of .0196", they are for forming small radii grooves.

Graham
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 20, 2008, 11:14:56 AM
Graham:

  Are we talking the same definition of inscribed circle?
TO me, the setting is the largest circle that can be placed on the entire tool..
For example in a triangle insert, the inscribed circle is the size of a circle placed in the center of the triangle. So in your case, the entire
tool insert would be less than .04" wide? How owuld you bold it to a holder?

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on November 20, 2008, 01:06:09 PM
These are the tools I use, I make small spindles for solenoid valves with them.

Graham
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 20, 2008, 02:18:16 PM
Hi Graham,
 I wonder if that type of tool should be defined as a GROOVING tool ?
I asked earlier about defining the IC, TIP RAD. and Holder for the Groover but .....no response.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on November 20, 2008, 02:48:30 PM
I use them as profile tools, they do grooving versions too.

The difference is in how they are used, grooving tools don't normally do area clearance, they have a set of paths with variable sizes.

I know Art has only implemented button tools so far, I would class my use of the tool as button tool profiling.

Graham
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 20, 2008, 03:45:50 PM
Thanks Graham  :)
This is an air cooled engine cyl.
In this case, I guess the roughing could be plunge cuts with a grooving tool but the finish pass would be with the groover or the button tool, both of which would have the same characteristics/basic dimensions ? Long projection and narrow ? (except for the square corners and flat end on the groover)
BTW...Who is the mfg. of the tools you mentioned ?

RC

Also, in the earlier release, I could set the IC (width) of the groover down small enough to cut this profile with NO finish clearance.
 :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on November 20, 2008, 03:51:59 PM
Here is a link :-

Graham

http://www.atistellram.com/Company/Library/Grooving/STLR%2004%20Stell-Lok.pdf

http://www.atistellram.com/Company/Library/Turning/STLR%2006%20Catalog%20Turning%20I.pdf
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 20, 2008, 10:52:57 PM
Thanks Graham,
  I see MSC here in ther USSA handles some of the inserts.....but do not list the holders.
I really like the looks of these and will look for a USSA suplier.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 21, 2008, 12:41:20 AM
Hi, Art

Been thinking about this .1 and Smaller values issue, always thought LazyCam worked with Unit's.

OK, So when LC is loading Inch DXF's, Multiply by a factor of 10, 100, 1000 or some Suitable Factor, Then after it's finished and ready to Post, Divide out the Scaled Factor Used. ? Thought's

You now, I'm Really think about this In-side and Out-side Profile Stuff.

Thanks, Chip







Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 21, 2008, 12:15:45 PM
Hi Chip:

   Its still in units, but I made the mistake of not converting to integers. I may in fact at this point stop everythign and do it all in intgers by mutiplying everythign by 10,000. Migth make all the small number errors go away. Trouble is thats allot of changes to make. Im still evaluating if that necessary..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 21, 2008, 02:50:50 PM
Hi, Art

Thanks for the comment's, It's never an easy road to travel.

In the picture below, Previous ver., It's a .050 cutter, What's the top line profile used for, It seems to have an error/break at the arrow and at several other locations.

Thanks, Chjp
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 22, 2008, 01:16:51 AM
Chip:

  Its a representation of the rtemoved material, showing whats left.. seems broken in your example though..
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bowber on November 26, 2008, 03:08:09 PM
Hi

I'm trying to have a go with lazyturn but it doesn't run, it tells me that sgcore.dll is missing and then the paths it's tried, I have mach 3 *********.18 installed along with lazycam but I've also downloaded and installed the stand alone lazycam installer for version 3.??? Still the same message.

I've put the .exe file in the mach3 folder, I also did a search for the missing file and it was not found on the hard drive, this is with all files showing on a win2000  computer
nothing elso installed apart from mach.

Thanks
Steve

Forgot to add, this is with the nov19 version.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 26, 2008, 03:48:51 PM
Steve:

 You have to first install the LazyCam update on the downloads page of the main website.
Its a special build that includes the required files..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bowber on November 26, 2008, 04:01:38 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Art, I'll get it downloaded and try again tomorrow.

Is there a way to run lazyturn separately on another computer, my cad is on my laptop in my nice warm house and my cnc computer is in my COLD workshop :D

Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 26, 2008, 04:59:50 PM
Install what you need on your laptop. The lapatop will run it.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 26, 2008, 06:28:59 PM
Just curious Art, is there a reason why this version won't post to Mach 3 turn? The other versions did but not this one for some reason.

Thanks for all the hard work -  ;)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 26, 2008, 06:48:12 PM
Dave:

 It should post fine.. It wont automatically send to Mach3, but it will create a post file..

Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 26, 2008, 07:12:28 PM
Actually I just got a message from "overloaded" that you have to have a file created first and then when posting, you just overwrite it.

So I'm not the only one with this issue Art.  ;)  Might be worth looking into?

Thanks gain-
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on November 26, 2008, 07:25:13 PM
I have been playing with LazyTurn for some time and still don't have much of a clue what I am doing.  It only started to work on my computer with the latest download.  When I try to load the file pulley.dxf, it seems to work except that it is reversed and at one end it looks like the tool move out from the part instead of in like the dxf.

Is there any kind of instructions manual somewhere I can download?

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 26, 2008, 08:52:58 PM
Looks about right to me, the drawing gets modified to fit certain rules as iut loads. As to Doc's..nope. Its only a development program, there are no instructions..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bowber on November 27, 2008, 07:08:56 AM
Hi Art

I got lazyturn installed using the lazycam 3.00 updater file and then I copied the latest lazyturn .exe file into the folder. I only have lazycam installed on this computer, no mach3

I've created a simple profile and exported as a R12 dxf then opened it in lazyturn no problem, by the way how do you set the zero to the tailstock end?
Here's were the problems start, I opened the tool setup and the black tool holder is making a strange wavy action from left to right, I then got an message saying "open gl error stack overflow". This also happend sometimes when I tried to create a tool path.

When I click the create toolpath button I then get a message saying "mouse click detected do you want to quit the operation, yes/no (buttons)" clicked the no button and the message reappeared, this repeats until the progress bar at the bottom has advanced to the end.
Clicking the yes button gives a message "path creation error no stock contour".

I've also tried it on another computer with the same results.

If you want more info or screen shots I'll sort them for you.

Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 27, 2008, 08:07:13 AM
Steve:

 Any mouse click while generating a toolpath with stop the path ( optionally) , so I suspect your double clicking the post button, its seeing the second click as a stop command.

The OpenGL errors Im still looking for, I dont get them mut I suspect they are due to some small number problems ( the program was written in metric and Im converting some things to match standard measurments..

 You set zero to the end of stock by clicking the red arrow on top of the stock, the other arrows allow the stock diamter to change and such. The tool waving is a diag for me and will stop soon.



Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 27, 2008, 08:54:33 AM
Hi ART,
  Here is a sure fire way to get the Open GL/Stack Overflow.
Make an attempt to adjust the Stock OD "smaller" than how it is depicted when opening the DXF.

In the earlier releases, these sliders could be adjusted to where ever needed, even to scale the part down.
Chip mentioned earlier that the DXF needs to be drawn MUCH smaller in dia., then expanded with the sliders due to the fact that they will not reduce without the errors.

It worked GREAT early on.
Maybe a clue for you.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bowber on November 27, 2008, 10:18:07 AM
Hi Art

Thanks for the reply.
I'm definatly only clicking once.
Just tried again and I clicked the yes button this time and had to repeatedly click it until the progress bar reached the end.

I'll try it on my laptop later as I'm in my office right now.

What does the inscribed circle mean and how do I tell it how wide a grove tool is, or is all this info in previous posts, I tried going through them all but only got to page 8 before having to stop the kids killing each other :)

Steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 27, 2008, 10:26:11 AM
Hey Steve, instead of clicking NO, hit the N on your keyboard. See if it then continues.
Some of the tool info is in previous posts, I find that the IC seting does adjust the width of the grooving tool.
And the HOLDER length adjusts the projection.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on November 27, 2008, 10:26:49 AM
When I click the create toolpath button I then get a message saying "mouse click detected do you want to quit the operation, yes/no (buttons)"

I am having the same problem and I know I am only clicking once.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 27, 2008, 10:27:38 AM
Steve, when that mouse click dialog box comes up, don't use your mouse at all and hit the "N" key on your keyboard and that will generate your toolpath  ;)

Take note of the green "loading" bar at the bottom of the page. Depending on your settings, it can take awhile so go get your self a beverage while you wait -  ;D

Dave

EDIT: crap, I see this was posted above ...lol!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 27, 2008, 10:44:39 AM
Hi Guys:

  Weird the way the mice are telling the system theyve been clicked..  Ill tighten up the code and remove that, in the meantime, he's a stock fix..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bowber on November 27, 2008, 10:57:54 AM
Hi

Hitting the N key does the trick, I really am going to have to read all the previous posts to get clued up on all this stuff.

Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 27, 2008, 11:04:36 AM
And don't be afraid to experiment, Steve, and post your findings as this is what this is all about -  :D

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bowber on November 27, 2008, 11:36:58 AM
Well I've had a mess around with a simple part, basicly a ball on the end of a stick.

This is all just in lazyturn, no actual cutting.
I used a button cutter to make one set of code and the roughing was very rough, big steps etc.
I then tried a groove tool (basicly a parting blade) and the roughing was much smoother, same settings as the button cutter, 0.1mm pull out and stock clearance with 0.5mm per pass.
I would have thought it would be the other way round ???

Anyway it's looking good, certainly lazy so far.

Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 27, 2008, 11:41:14 AM
Steve:

  It is counter to intuition. A button tool woudl grouge the stock more easily due to the radius of the tool. A triangle or groove woudlnt, it can get
closer to the profile without hurting it. Remember, all we generate at this point is the roughing path. Fine paths will be awhile yet..

Anyway, play with it and post what you find. No promised shcedule, its my "fun" project so its a slow one.


Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bowber on November 27, 2008, 11:58:24 AM
No problem Art, it'll be a while before I have a CNC lathe ready as well, just getting up to speed with it all.
I do have some profiling to do that I was going to use my mill as a lathe for but other considerations mean that I'm going to use a profile tool in my manual lathe.

steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 27, 2008, 12:23:44 PM
Art, if I may ask, what PC hardware and OS are you running? Just curious is all-

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 27, 2008, 01:12:51 PM
Hi Dave:

  I have faster computers, but I develop on a asus 2.3Ghz unit, with 1Terabyte of harddrive space and 2 24" monitors. Nothing too special..

Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 27, 2008, 01:37:40 PM
Ok, thanks, just curious to know since some of the things ran differently for us.

I realize systems can be alike and yet so different as far as video drivers and the rest so it got my curiousity going.  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 27, 2008, 02:09:17 PM
Hi ART,
  Thanks for the STOCK fix. 
The PART dia. pointer is also off.......over the dwg. dia.
Take your time.....good work.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 27, 2008, 02:14:36 PM
RC:

  You mean the arrow is off, or it generates error? I tried it here and it seemed to work OK..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on November 27, 2008, 04:44:53 PM
Hi ART,
The flange is drawn as 3" diameter but the scale on LT shows it differently.  3.4500"
Just the arrow is off, no error.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 28, 2008, 01:26:33 PM
Hi Guys:

 New version that fixes the profile outside dimensions and the cancel toolpath, the ESC key is now the cancelling agent when doing a toolpath, press esc to exit the path generation.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 28, 2008, 04:33:00 PM
Hi, Art

This profile still seems to have issues, (8 Test.DXF below)

The post save feature 3 ver back would save without temp file needing to be used. ?

Looks like you may have sorted out the inch small values issue, What did you find. ?

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on November 28, 2008, 04:54:53 PM
Heya, Art,
Is there any way to keep all the zip files in one updated file for D/L. I 'm tring to get all the zips together,but am having problems with getting errors with some that are asking for a dll LMsomething such that keeps asking. Could you Do an updated file,so that everything up to now is in one place for D/L, and be easier to update after. Just a suggestion, I'm having problems as usual :-O Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 29, 2008, 10:15:03 PM
Hi Art,
Thanks for the escape key to stop the generation of toolpaths. I hope people will appreciate how easy your making it for them.
Looking good and seems to be generating profile cuts quicker.

A few comments:
 - Inscribed circle won't take any values in this range 0.01  to 0.099
 - Depth pass is not saved again
 - There is a lot of space in the tool description and it caries over to the saved toolpath file

There are more important things for you to consider but list these anyway as they come to mind.
- Possible to have the option of pointing devices ie; turn pointer to a cross hair when it goes into the grahics part of the screen?
- Have an option to save the profile outline only in GCODE ( Eventualy you'll be able to get it out of the code but it would be nice
  to have for small turnings).
- Can the  per pass  be added as part of comments when code is posted

Pic and dxf if someone wants to fool with it.
RICH



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 29, 2008, 10:35:04 PM
Thx Rich,

  All good points, I'll see what I can do.
Seems to be doing much better, it can be fooled but its getting harder to do so.
In the end Id like to allow for drawing of the tool bit, migth make for interesting profiles, since the
design in really a object->object collision detector, any shape woudl work in theory, not just the ones
I allow you at the moment. I'll give it some thought.

Note for who asked: I cant put the files into a common place as yet, it woudl be too open, Im keeping the testing
only to those with enough interest to check this thread until its somethign I feel is to a usefull stage. Then I'll
ask Brian to web post it for further downloads.

 Thanks for the testing on this, it speeds it along, Im presently doing two projects and sharing time between the two as I can
so you'll see spurts in progress as I go.. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 29, 2008, 10:53:14 PM
Art,
Once in while i back plot the lazyturn generated code just to compare to the generated code against the profile. A few version back i was seeing some code for profile parts on a slope where the roughing cuts were not following the profile. I didn't see that in the dxf just posted, and that's why the profile was done,  but let me remark that i can't validate that the backpplotiing is 100% either.
For whatever the above is worth.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 30, 2008, 12:14:07 AM
"drawing of the tool bit", HMM.....
Haven't the fogiest idea of what it takes to do programing for something.
Before CNC if you wanted to do a profile you ground a tool to cut that small piece of profile.
The candle stick has curves which conventional tooling would never do. But, you can make a tool shape which
would do a weird / tough turning. So if once the widling of stock is done,  you can use an unconventional tool or multiple tools to go in and machine it,....that's something that  no other software may provide. It would require
option to stay out of parts of the profile, and then selectively do other typical machining to widle away more to make room for the drawn tool.

Maybe, if lazyturn allows you to pick a section of the profile and  generate code based on a point tool  ( like using the button) then you have accomplished that already. The difference being that it's up to the operator to figure out how he is going to do it ie; plunge some, then turn some, or whatever, and finaly profile.
Make any sense?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 30, 2008, 02:48:35 AM
Hi, Rich

Your comment "- Have an option to save the profile outline only in GCODE ( Eventualy you'll be able to get it out of the code but it would be nice
                        to have for small turnings)."

You can basically do this now with LazyCam Turn, You need to edit the transition area for the Rough and Finish G-code, Copy the Finish G-code at the bottom of the Rough G-code file, Hears a Pic. and G-code example.

Edit: It was late, Didn't edit in change notes.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 30, 2008, 09:59:08 AM
Rich:

 The ability to "widdle" out an area is somehting Im looking into as well. Im still unsure as to the mechanics of it as yet.
Turn is AMAZINGLY complex to implement.. never looks that way going in... :)

Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: marcel beaudry on November 30, 2008, 10:47:16 AM
hello Art
the part shown by Mich could be made easyer and faster with a plunge cut
Marcel Beaudry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 30, 2008, 11:32:37 AM
Chip,
I just adjust rough depth cut to minimize the code then add one zero clear finishinig cut and the profile code is  at the end of the generated Gcode. Not that much trouble to do out of Lazycam Turn and you will be able to do the
same once finishing cuts are generated by Lazyturn. Good post.

Art,
I'm sure you can imagine a lot of requests. Some may be easily implemented or to implement what seems simple
requires a lot of effort. I certainly don't want you wasting your time when a work around is available. A sanitized Gcode for just the profile falls into that category and is trivial. Even widdling down something, as really you could always just import a part of the profile for something.
If you spend time on every suggestion you'll never get the basics done or Lazyturn will turn into something
complex.
RICH
 


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 30, 2008, 11:42:10 AM
Hi, Rich

It's not bad at all to do, Hears your test shape and G-code txt file.

Putting a lead-in in the dxf in some form could reduce the need for any transition G-code, It's to early to tell till things stabilize some.

The second pic shows some attention needed, But It's really nice for now.

I used a .1  (.050) step generated and a .025 offset in rough to allow material to be removed for final pass.  

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 30, 2008, 01:04:03 PM
Chip,
Certainly agree.
I would think that if you have a basic turning program, and if it didn't do something, that a work around could be done for most anything. The work around, if known before using Lazyturn, would still make using LazyTurn the solid base to come from and easy to do the task. Stay with me as i ramble ........

Now what does that high end program do or how does it handle those tasks?
Now what little something would help to make a work around easy? Is it realy worth having in the program?
Is a comment line in the generated code that the finishinig profile is starting worth the effort?
I don't know the answers to those questions.

Would think that there are are not that many though.

So maybe something worth doing is for us to think in the work around mode as we relate to or use some other program and see if we can come up with something worthy of effort. Also post the suggested work around.  
RICH
 


  
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Glenn on November 30, 2008, 09:14:10 PM
Hi Guys,

   I've been following this thread forever,  and every few days I try to install this beta for myself and get the
message---" this application has failed to start because Lvkrn15u.dll was not found reinstall may fix this application"---

  Please guide me to the thread that explains how to re install this. I can't find it.  :-[

   I  am a licensed user of  mach3 on my lathe, and am very anxious to catch up with the rest of you testers!
Looks like fun!   

                Thanks ,

                       Glenn
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 30, 2008, 09:28:56 PM
Glen:

 You need to install the "LazyCam Update" from the websites downloads page before attempting to install any of the exe files posted here.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 30, 2008, 09:35:22 PM
First install the latest version of lazycam, here is the link from page 20 of this thread.
http://www.machsupport.com/downloads/LazyCam3.00.2_Update.exe

Then unzip Art's  latest posting of the turn file which is      LazyTurnNov28  and copy that file into
MACH which which should replace the existiing file that is there.
rICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on November 30, 2008, 11:02:57 PM
Hi, Art & All

Having quite a few issues with latest LazyTurn, With openGL's with many dxf's that loaded fine before.

Any one else having display issues like this with Mach3R3.043.020 latest ver, First 2 pic's are latest ver, 3'rd is Mach3R3.041.

Pic's are LazyTurn/LazyCam Turn combo Post's I been tinkering with rough and finish code.

Hears a G-code.tap file of Graham's King Chess Piece with Arc's, It's use is where I noticed the Issue.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: sanlee on December 01, 2008, 03:03:54 AM
Hi Chip

I have downloaded your file "Copy_3_of_LAZYTURN_TEMP_BLANK.tap" into mach turn vizard but it seems like show below figure. can anybody tell why it is like this? I have licenced Mach3 version R3.02.

Thanks
sanlee
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 01, 2008, 05:00:06 AM
I believe I had this same problem and I switched to Diameter mode and it fixed it.

Give that a try but I'm sure Rich will be here soon to tell you - :D

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: sanlee on December 01, 2008, 05:59:58 AM
Thanks Dave for the guidance i have tried it by changing mode from radius to dia from the Config/ports & pins/turn option. but the result is still same  ??? no improvement is found. Any more suggessions?

Thanks

sanlee
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 01, 2008, 06:56:21 AM
Sanlee,
Check or uncheck "Reversed Arc's in Front Post" located in CONFIG>PORT&PINS>TURN OPTIONS
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: sanlee on December 01, 2008, 07:05:37 AM
Thanks RICH

I did check and uncheck both in "Reversed Arc's in Front Post" located in CONFIG>PORT&PINS>TURN OPTIONS. but still result is not getting. where should i wrong i dont know. please any further suggessions?

sanlee

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 01, 2008, 07:09:50 AM
Got to go, back later today rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 01, 2008, 08:36:58 AM
sanlee,
just tried the file, you need to be in  diameter mode and reversed arc's unchecked
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 01, 2008, 01:27:05 PM
Ok, so I was part right........lol!

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 01, 2008, 03:18:45 PM
Hi, All

It's a Chess King, This is correct mode, Hear anyway, Radius mode and Reversed arc's unchecked.

I appears after Mach3R3.041 there are Display Issues in Mach3

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 01, 2008, 08:23:52 PM
Chip,
Just upgraded to MACH 3.042.020 and also see the issues with the display, so your not alone.
In fact for some reason it won't zoom out as far as it did before which is very annoying. Can't even see
a small part any ideas?
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: sanlee on December 02, 2008, 12:25:36 AM
RICH,
sorry to say you that i have tried the file in diameter mode and reversed arc's unchecked but still there is no improvement in result. Also i have updated Mach3 R3.04 and opened the same file but still result is same as shown in below photo. i dont know what is wrong with my side.

sanlee
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 02, 2008, 06:47:16 PM
Thanks Chip, as I added v3.041 back to the arsenal for viewing purposes.

sanalee,
 I don't think there is anything wrong on your side of the fence other than graphics display
between versions. I will only comment saying that it can be frustrating enough to go through your
 learning experience without this kind of issue to make it more complex.  Stay with us my friend as we
need the help.

 I just reloaded version 3.041 to a separate directory and opened a lot of turn files with no apparent issue.

 Rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Hood on December 02, 2008, 06:59:49 PM
Sanlee
 change the IJ mode on the general configs page in Mach.
Hood
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 02, 2008, 07:38:31 PM
Hi, Hood

That should fix it for him, That's the second time I've forgotten about the I,J's setting in general configuration menu.

The Little crop cir's with (Turn Options) Reverse Arc's in Front Post and the Big crop cir's in General Configuration menu.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 02, 2008, 09:41:58 PM
Hi Art,
Just some general comments but specific are noted in red on the attached JPEC image.
- Depth per pass is not saved but did save in one of the versions
- Can the file name be saved in the posted gcode so that you don't have to edit to add (  )?

Other comments noted on the jpeg.
RICH




Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 02, 2008, 10:03:28 PM
interesting..

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 02, 2008, 10:42:34 PM
ART,
It is doing the same thing on the base which is similar to the upper profile of the candlestick.
Hey, 4 bad lines / 1300 lines x 100= .077% error..... getting close to 0%
Could manualy edit these lines but would be a PITA.
see attachments and code
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 03, 2008, 10:53:26 AM
Hi Guys:

  Heres a new version that trys to fix some of those errors. (thx for the files, they helped allot.)

 There is also a diags mode in the rough dialog, you cant post if you use it, but the resultant image is helpfull to me to find where some types of
errors come from. Its also a very fast way to see a line reduction of the image. No gouging tests are done, and tool geometry is not considered
in this case, also no real toolpath is calc'ed, it just shows the "before pathing" data from the path engine. Generation of the scan lines is done in an
iterative algorithm, so the "diags" output can show me if that is working OK, it was failing in the test files provided.

(Stock rotation is temporarily disabled as well in this version.

Thanks,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 03, 2008, 12:14:12 PM
Hi ART,
  Stock rotation still works.
Did you mean TOOL rotation ?

LOOKING GOOD !

Thanks so far,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 03, 2008, 12:16:30 PM
Hi Rich,
 For now, you can leave the Prolog box empty. No need to edit the ( ).

All ready for York ?

See Ya,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 03, 2008, 01:43:30 PM
Rich:

 No, I meant stock. While the job profile is still spun, the stock is no longer shown, ( its the profile above the piece..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 03, 2008, 01:59:30 PM
AOK ART.....I gotcha now.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 03, 2008, 03:18:26 PM
NICE, Art!


Dave  :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 03, 2008, 09:13:07 PM
Art,
I'll include the files when if I find something. The insanity in my naming convention goes something like this.
A_B dxf_hcir_*********xx

A=REFERENCE TO MY FOLDER
B=DRAWING NUMBER
hcir= rich
*********x= C MEANS COMMENT 1,2,3, ETC FOR THE POSTING, OR DESCRIPTION IE; GCODE


RC,
Yep, looking forward to the show in York. Are you going?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: sanlee on December 04, 2008, 02:51:31 AM
Thankyou HOOD, CHIP, RICH and other friends

My problem is solved by changing the mode i.e IJ  :). This is good learning with you all.

Thanks again

sanlee
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 04, 2008, 03:24:38 PM
Hi, Art

It appears that having a horizontal line on C/L 0,0 start causes a Open GL Error's, But it allows the Rough Cut to start at 0,0 C/L.

If it's has a vertical line or has no line at the 0,0 start the Rough Cut starts Short of the  0,0 C/L.

Any Thoughts, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 04, 2008, 03:36:54 PM
Chip:

  Yes, its illegal to have a c/l line. TO control the start position of the cut, use the main options menu, you can set a Z-Offset from the piece there.
Ill add code to remove any c/l object found. That shoudl clear that up. :)
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 04, 2008, 03:37:20 PM
Hi, Art, All

Hears the dxf's and a Post of the top picture hear, Rough and Finish.

 Edit: Thanks, Art i'll give it a try, But will this fix the Rough not starting at 0,0 C/L ?.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 04, 2008, 04:01:17 PM
Hi, Art

I had the Z-Offset set to .1, Set it to .25, Only change was more Z setback, Rough still falls Short of 0.0 C/L.

Edit: "In the cut, use the main options menu, you can set a Z-Offset from the piece there.", Do we need a X Rough Offset from 0,0 C/LValue Also. ?

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 04, 2008, 05:17:08 PM
Chip:

 Ahh, sorry, I misunderstood. Now I see the issue. Ill look into the algorithm and see if I can force it to zero. It automatically decides when to stop based on some pretty strange criteria due to some profiles that may cut inward ( like a cup shape ), since a tool woudl snap cutting inwards, it stops early.. But in your case it looks like it shoudl continue inwards..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 04, 2008, 06:21:25 PM
Hi, Art

Thanks, It's sometimes hard to give an explanation that's clear with these finger's.

Just want to say, Things are working very well.

If you can get " Ill add code to remove any c/l object found", this should fix most of the other OpenGL issues, I'm thinking.

Cutting a Ball End and or a Part Cutoff should be a vertical line or Cir/Arc move.

I had noticed if a Horizontal line was off the Z Zero point it didn't cause the OpenGL error.

As I've asked before, Have you thought of a way to do Inside Cut's.

At this time using LazyTurn and LazyCam Turn to do Rough and Finish Post's is pretty Easy.

Thanks for all you do Art.

Chip





Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 04, 2008, 08:01:58 PM
Hello ART,
  Just curious as to your planned order of progression.
?
Face
Inside
Finish Pass
?
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 04, 2008, 08:13:45 PM
Hi, Art

Did a little more testing. If I offset the Horizontal line by 0.0001 in "Y", Then "No OpenGL" Error.

So if you can do the, " Ill add code to remove any c/l object found. That should clear that up".

If you can adjust your "algorithm and see if I can force it to zero.", Or maybe the Rough Per Pass Depth Value. ?

The only Issue I see is the last (Most left Vertical line should be Ignored till the final pass is done), Cutoff. ?

Just info, Thinking out Loud, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 04, 2008, 08:23:37 PM
I dunno why, but my last post seems to have disappeared, so Ill redo it here.

   LazyTurn is a hobby project so there is no set timeline. My intent is to first get roughing perfect, then finish-rough, and to do that I need
to finish the "stock removed" profile. Thats for stage #2. You guys have made stage#1 pretty good from your testing and youve shown me the weak sections,
most of which now work great, bit more work and we're there I think.

 Stage#2 will be finish-rough

 Stage #3 is finish.

 Stage 4 is facing.

 Stage 5, 6, 7.. inside, cuttoff, variosu thing.. all optional if I decide to go that far. By end of stage #4 the program shoudl be better than
most can get for the price ( free) and Ill make decisions from there. I really just want to get to the stage where I can remove turnign from LazyCam altogether
and replace it with LazyTurn. Seems having it dedicated to turning makes it easier to do than mixing it into LazyCam. ( Itd make LazyCam easier to deal with too. ;)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 04, 2008, 08:56:19 PM
Art,
I wouuld be curious on your internal boring thoughts also.
For example;
Would it be easy ( selectable from external by some simple definition?

Would the profile need to be drawn differently?

What kind of tool.....some standard boring bar with cutters.......or

Would you be able to DRAW your boring bar / tool shape  and let the program check for clashes?

Sure could add another dimension to just cutting an outside profile requiring you to  rework how the
external is done.

Chip just may have brought up a good point before LazyTurn progresses to far.
 
With a few comments on internal work  we may test a little differently on the external.


RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 04, 2008, 09:50:59 PM
Thanks ART,
Your order is exactly as I was hoping.
I understand the hobbyness of it and totally respect your timeline rules....or lack thereof.
Step 1,2 and 3 will be a Godsend.
Anything further would be icing on the cake and probably would justify another lic. purchase too.
Thanks ART,
RC

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 04, 2008, 10:44:58 PM
Hi Guys:

  Internal boring woudl be done with a slightly different profile. It would be a profile with a straight outer edge so the program knows by inferance that its internal.
As to shape, by then I hope to have a drawable tool shape (or profile) that will take everything into account automatically. Lazy like.. :)

 Its one reason why the profile is going so slow and tight, so thaty inside can woprk if we get there.

  One step at a time, your tests seem to show we're pretty much stable for outside shapes, most errors seem gone, Ill fix up what I have
and start thinking about how to get the stock removal process working, then on to finish-rough..

Art


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 05, 2008, 10:58:42 AM
Hi Art & guys
 Well first off Art thank you for your work on Turn, but when i purchased Mach-3 and Lazy cam Lic i was promised turn would be working within 2 months that's been now over 3yrs in waiting and it wasn't free it's why i bought the program in the first place
rg's
Dennis 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 05, 2008, 11:55:28 AM
Dennis:

>>Well first off Art thank you for your work on Turn, but when i purchased Mach-3 and Lazy cam Lic i was promised turn would be working within 2 months that's been now over 3yrs in waiting and it wasn't free it's why i bought the program in the first place

  Id like to see the promise. It may have been suggested that I hoped for 2 months, or that I intended to get there in a couple months, but even my wife will
tell you I generally refuse to "promise" anything. If she asks if Ill pick up something from the store I usually say "I'll try..", Im adverse to promises by personallity.
Those that know me well will tell you I very rarely promise anything, because when I do I'll move heaven and earth to live up to it, hence Im very promise shy.
It may have happened, but Id like to see the wording on it.. I suspect its more of an impression given from some responce done too quickly by me or one of my
minions at the time.  :)

 So Im sympathetic to a point, but when LazyCam was released, it was pretty clearly stated by me many times that the demo was
fully functional up to the point of posting code, and that anyone thinking or purchasing it should do so on the basis that what was there was
usefull enough to justify the expense as it is, not as it may become. I also usually pointed peopel to other products, SheetCam, AlphaCam, Solidworks, BobCam etc..
 The Pro license in LazyCam was really a way to pay for the licensed modules that I began to use to do pocketing
and profiling, and I was pretty disappointed in their performance, which is what held up any further usage of them to do things more complex.

  As Ive always told people, LazyCam is just a replacement for a very old DXF importer, which over time became very outdated,
I was always carefull to say any plans were not in stone and that if current level wasnt working properly for someone they shouldnt
get a license. However, that having been said, I do feel some responsibility to the Turners who wanted more capability than was there. Hence
LazyTurn will be free to those people that licensed Pro level in expectation of better performance. LazyCam, LazyTurn..any CAM product in the form
I do them will never pay for themselves, they were and are programs that strive to help out those who cannot ( or will not) pay hundreds if not
thousands of dollars on programs that are highly functional, but perhaps way too functional for the person needing a certain capabillity, and thus cannot
be justified on that basis. The 75.00 that LCam costs ( and then only for the pro level), is a pretty reasonable price for the capabilities it offers, and
I have gotten tons of email telling me that, as well as many who are disappointed in how it works for them. ( On the other hand, I have dozens of letters
on almost every CAM program out there telling me of disappointment in operation.. its kinda the nature of CAM, much harder to do than one thinks, even in
a perfect program ( if there was such a thing..).

   I do understand though , that many are not ( or were not at the time ) involved enough in the community aspect of MAch3 to read what I said on
the various forums and such, and simply purchased on expectation, so hopefully LTurn will go some ways to making them feel better in that respect. It is
for those reasons that I began LazyTurn, and why I intend to simply give it to those that licensed LazyCam. Seems a good thing to do in retirement anyway. :)

  So just so theres no misunderstandings on this project, Ill state it clearly," I promise nothing, I will endeavor to work on it as often as possible, and with the help of
those here testing I will make it as lazy and bulletproof as possible, but it will come as it comes, and develop as it does and as time and circumstance permits. With luck
and perserverance, as well as interest from users ( or potentiual users) the end result will be a usefull program that is hard to find a replacement for at a reasonable cost."
( You can quote me on that.. :) ).

  Dont take this as a rebuke, I just wanted to have this in posted form so anyone can openly see what the plan is, whats going on, and what the end result should be
if all comes together. I have some feeling of responsibility to bring up the level of Turning as well as some changes to LCam when Im done turning, but I dont feel too
pressured by those that got LCam thinking it was promised to be ready in any time frame, Ive always tried very hard to make sure people realise that CAM functions are
very difficult, and what people think of the end result is quite often very variable between people. Its the nature of CAM itself to be that way. A controler works
or doesnt typically, it flow is pretty linear, but CAM has the problem of trying to match the way a person thinks about a job.. its very hard to match expectation in that world.
Hopefully, in the end, I can match what yours are.

Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 05, 2008, 02:17:30 PM
Hi Art

I get the impression you feel attacked by Dennis.
I think it is not the meaning of Dennis to do so.
If i may i will give you my thought over Lazyturn.

There are (not so) many programs for turning.
They have one thing in commen , they are first very expensive and second they are very complicated.

What Lazyturn is promising (not written but just what i feel) is that it will be A program so simple that hobbyist like me can use it and understand it without having a university educated
background.

I think much people like me are screaming for a program like this and in that view it can't be fast enough to be ready.
I can not offer you enough items to help by develop the program but thank god there are people (like Chip and Rich and more ) who can.

What i see until now is very promising (if you say it or not "PROMISING") and also i can't wait until it is ready.

If you like it or not, you have got yourselves a weight on your shoulder that you have to finish this and you will, i am sure.

Greeting:
Willem

P.S.

Mach3 and Lazycam are one of the few programs i payed for , not that is strict necessarily (working illegal copy of a the lic files) but just be course i feel that a program like this is worth paying for (and paying for a Dutchman is like curse in a church).
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 05, 2008, 03:20:56 PM
Willem:

>> get the impression you feel attacked by Dennis.
>>If you like it or not, you have got yourselves a weight on your shoulder that you have to finish this and you will, i am sure.
>> I think it is not the meaning of Dennis to do so.


 LOL.. yes I know what you mean.

  Really I didnt take it as an attack, its just I like to make sure everyone knows what the development situation is so that no misunderstandings occur in future. Thats all. I know from the tons of email that peopel are screaming for such a program, and its that desire thats drving me forward. Glad you chimed in, I know allot of people are watching this topic, not necessarily saying anything, and I know many are impatient for something they can use, so Ill make it as fast as I can. :)
 
Thanks,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 05, 2008, 05:39:39 PM
Art
I didn't say you specifically promised it may have been Brian can't remember it's been a few yrs now so forgive my memory but it is why i bought the program and again thanks for working on it and getting it as far as you have.

Rg's
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 05, 2008, 07:07:25 PM
Hi To Whoever,
It is the way it is as of now!
In the interim if you have a burning desire to turn a profile to dimension:

1. Create a usable dxf for the profile that can be imported into either program
    ( by just adding or deleting a line it will surfice for both Lazyturn and Lazycam.)
     There is lazycam turn info in the members docs, will not be updated , but will surfice to get a profile cut out of
     LazyCam.
2. Use LazyTurn ( BECAUSE IT'S SO DARN EASY AND YOU DON'T NEED TO EVEN READ ALMOST ANYTHING) to
    generate the rough cuts using a button / point tool ( look you just want the profile cuts and use common
    sense on the tool you actually use )
    (Use the same DXF  and just modify it if you want to stay out of areas of the profile, think through the piece
      about  the order you would cut it and make modified dxf's for generating code) If you did this in an orderly
     manner, cut and paste them together , and you can create roughing Gcode for even a complex piece.
3.Use LazyCam to generate the finish cuts and just add via cut and paste that code to the rough cuts.

So... for 1,2,3 you need to do some repetitive fooling around but the difference in worth $2000.00 plus.
So... with the saved money from one free program and one minor fee for another  ......think what you want
to buy for your significant other for the holiday!  ;)

Rich

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 05, 2008, 09:53:34 PM
Hi Dennis:

  No harm, no foul. the word "Promise" is just one of my warning triggers is all. :)
Im being quite truthfull about it being a household joke that I never ever commit.
 The program is actually working well enougt that Im driven to finish it , so it
probably a moot point, I just dont want hopes up till I know it will all work.

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 06, 2008, 12:12:31 PM
HI,
I got a question? I use StdCad.and have drawn the profile in, Everway But Sunday, that I can, and only Lazycam can read it. When I try to load it in LazyTurn,I get a No visible data can be found. (Something of Sorts). I also did the sample of the almer44 profile,and it will generate a tool path,but how in the World do I get it to save so I can load it into LazyCam to do the roughing tool path. I've read your post's over and over again,and still cannot come up with what your doing, OR , how to get the tool Path into a generated state. It must be ME, and or the Std Cad. that is holding the image out of some sorts. Could you be a little more specific in the Easy,1..2..3.ect. Doc's are not that helpfull, and have read them also.   Thanks,  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 06, 2008, 01:07:12 PM
Hi Hank

Hears a Blank File, Make several copies of it, Then when you post use one of them, LazyTurn won't creat a file as it did in eariler versions.

Hope this Helps, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 06, 2008, 01:20:54 PM
aclausing,
I know nothing about StdCad. I assume it can generate a dxf file. Post your dxf file and I'll have a look and will make comments then.
Sorry the doc's don't help as they do cover basics and some specific things to be sucessfull in lazycam.

RICH

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 06, 2008, 02:01:07 PM
Lets see if I did this Right, Add attachment.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 06, 2008, 02:55:15 PM
Hank,
COMMENTS:
1. get rid of the box around the profile - move it to another layer and turn that layer off if you can or if you wish
2. now move the profile into the upper quadrant as lazyturn won't take negative y values ( profiile should be drawn above the center line
3. mirror the profile / rotate about the horizontal whatever, add a line for lazycam but do not include it for layturn in the dxf ), and i like to have the start
point of the profile located at 0,0,0 in the drawing, thus the profile can now be used in both lazycam and lazyturn
as lazyturn will iignore the vertical line which defiines as external for lazycam
4.dxf attached for lazyturn
5. ADD the vertical line for lazycam and note that your arcs are not connected ( you should make it a point to check that all lines / arcs  are connected as it saves possible problems ( if you do a drawing for some shop and they insist on it checked and dimensioned for easy
gcode creation your company could end up footing the bill for lost material and time. So get maticulaous about the drawing stuff.


I need to look at the profile more closely for use in laycam
......this is what i meanat by a usable dxf.......

RICH

MODIFIED: SEE HANK2

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 06, 2008, 03:36:06 PM
Hi, and Thanks,
Your not going to believe this ,but this is one that I have not tried to do,The DRW as you have it. I said it could be ME. Although this is great,and addind a line ,I see what you mean, is the line on the bottom have to be drawn also,or did LC. do this auto-. I set the parm's to close the gaps,as said, and have done a TP. but nothing as good as this. I got my ears up to work,and have to finish,and will try some more this PM when I get time. Thanks for your help in setting me straight,for there will be more questions as time goes by, I'm more then sure! Gee; That's Great!   Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 06, 2008, 06:32:39 PM
Hi, Hank

Re-worked you dxf a little, It will post in LazyCam Turn, But not in LazyTurn for me.

Probably a file Art should Look at, It tries to Post in Diag. Mode though.

Hi, Rich, This DXF was worked over with BobCad ver 23, The DXF file size is larger, It may be that 3'D issue, Would you look it over.

Hears some Pic's and the DXF.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 06, 2008, 07:41:56 PM
ART,
-I get a memory error after closing LazyTurn which I never got before.

-Don't know if the small rough cut error is significant, but lazyturn didn't do it on the other faces of this profile.
 What caught my attention was when i found the start and end point of the line happen to end in xx9.
 Couldn't duplicate with other values of stock and depth values. Maybe just a fluke.
Your making it harder to find stuff.
RICH 

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 06, 2008, 07:43:39 PM
The dxf for reply #390
Rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 06, 2008, 09:41:37 PM
Hi, Rich, Art

I'm having the same Issues, It's gotten So bad that None of the files I've used before  seem to work.

Well I think It's something in the LaxyTurn .XML is getting Corrupted, So I re-named the XML, That way it has to start up Fresh and now It works Again For Now.

Even the BobCad v23 file I wanted you to look at.

Edit: Found Problem XML, Below

Will See, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 06, 2008, 11:47:45 PM
Chip,
Assume your like me hacking away, bouncing between programs, numerous Layturn tries....I just had to reboot the PC after a while and it seemed like Lazyturn went back to normal. I am going back through all of my dxf files and checking one by to see if i can find anything.

Now if you get bored with the normal, try getting the attached to work, guaranteed to give error....it's a face turned on it's side.
Man was it hard trying to trace my egg! ;D
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 07, 2008, 02:03:06 AM
Hi, Art

The XML file in Reply # 392 two posts above has an error in it, It appears to be the RoughClearance value ," 1.", When I change it to "0.1"  LazyTurn start's working Again.

I have No idea how it got set to that value, As I've never changed a LazyTurn .xml before.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 07, 2008, 09:16:25 AM
Morning,
I got a chance to do some of were I left off. Chip, I cannot duplicate the .jpg you have in mess#387. I did not rework the file I have yet,and am going to attempt,to do something different. What I got now ,is the following screen shot's... Take a look!.. Hope This Worked.:O
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 07, 2008, 11:30:22 AM
Hi, Hank

There is a dxf of your part on page 39 last post #389, It's cleaned up, Give it a try.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 07, 2008, 12:03:34 PM
Hi, Rich

Hear is a Profile, You really can't cut it completely, But it's there, LazyCam generated not LazyTurn.  ;D

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 07, 2008, 12:53:04 PM
Hi All

I made a profile but when i create a toolpath the distance between toolpath and profile is not everywhere the same (profile5).
If i set the inscribed circle at zero the toolpath looks good (profile6).

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 07, 2008, 01:15:07 PM
Hi, Willem

I think part of the problem is you really need to draw your profile as below.

Profile should be drawn in X - , Y + quadrant of your cad, Starting/Placing  profile from 0.0  right to left.

Your part Diameter will not be correct if the top of your profile issen't set in ref. to Y zero line.

This may change when things are finalized and rough and finish is combined, Don't now for sure.

Hope this Helps, Let me Know.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 07, 2008, 03:29:15 PM
Willem:

  Its quite normal for a roughing pass to do that. The size of the step in as well as the shape of the tool will dictate how close a profile matches..
Thats why a zero incribed circle gives a perfect profile...but youd never be able to cut it..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 07, 2008, 04:17:30 PM
Hi, Art

His profile is drawn off in X & Y, (outer space or it might as well be), We have no way to set part diameter like we can set X Zero Start Point.

The point I was trying to make is that with his dxf, As drawn, LazyTurn makes the Radius larger than it should be, Due to the top profile being tied to Y Zero.

After you correct the Y value with reference to his Y leaden to 0 point in his drawing, LazyTurn & LazyCam can get the diameter in Y correct.

Edit: Top pic is from outer space, Bottom pic as profile seems to indicate

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 07, 2008, 05:34:27 PM
POST 1 OF 3
Art,
Think I answered the question on the code limit but you may want to remark.
The man  file was a challenge but also a learning experience.
The code stopped on the small undercut / bad transition of the nose.
( see my next post )
But it did produce code up to that point. In the horizontal turning ( next post) LazyTurn would not
until the profile was modified some or rough values adjusted.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 07, 2008, 05:36:07 PM
POST 2 OF 3
Art,
REV1_C1-Is there a basic rule that you can't have a backward line towards the lathe tail end in the profile?

REV1A_C1 / C2 - Seems bad curve transitions and roughs close to the profile along with small rough cuts can cause
 LazyTurn to lock up. Need to start thinking / envisioning in terms of clash. I used the diagnostic output a lot on this profile
and was helpful. But not a good indicator that you were going to get gcode.
Is it possible to have LazyTurn give you an error message that it is no longer running? I know if something is taking
too long i can always CRTL/Delete to see whats up....just a though.

REV1A_C3 - Pic of file in Mach

DFX files and gcode of LazyTurn in next post.
 
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 07, 2008, 05:37:28 PM
POST 3 OF 3

DFX files and gcode ( all 9000+ lines, no finishinig cuts added ). ;D
 
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 07, 2008, 06:34:21 PM
Rich:


 Pretty much any profile shoudl work.. but facing is meant to be a different process, so having dips in the Z face is likely to cause trouble..

LazyTurn never really locks up, it just see's things are so complex that it takes near forever. I havent seen it actually stop, so theres no way to intercept it as yet. Ill run some tests this week and see what I can do and what I see using your files...

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 07, 2008, 06:55:00 PM
Art,
Maybe wrong verbage. A few files have taken as as long as 20 miinutes ( 3 ghz and 2 gig memory on my PC).
that is not the morn.  Lazyturn was found to be be "Not Responding" for application status by windows task manager
and i had to end the process to get out of it ( so my words for that are "locked up").

If  Windows Task Manager is invoked will it screw up Lazyturn? Maybe that's the question.
If the answer is no then no need for an error message.

As far as a facing I just rotated  the profile out of curiuosity.
RICH

PS: The original profile is in post #393 as that will give all kinds of errors.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 07, 2008, 07:18:18 PM
Hi, Willem

I re-worked your dxf 0,0 start point and added some radius's to the valleys and corners, I think with a pointed .050 cut-off blade you should be able to cut them.

Hears a picture, 1 dxf & 2 Tap files, Have fun.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 07, 2008, 07:23:17 PM
Hi,
I too,have been involved with the LC not responding and have to end the task manager,ctrl-alt- delete. I'm looking for why is that some dxf's work and others do not. Could be my cad, or some bug that I am having and you are not. Still tring to get a dxf to load into LCTurn,and produce a tool path; but the tool set up keeps changing ,and there is not that much difference in the size of the parts drawn, sizes are about the same and can use ,I think the same tool cutter,and tip radius. I'm still looking for what I can do to make all the same, and maybe find my faults as something keeps getting changed. LC will only do the outline cutter toolpath,and post code, have'nt gotten that far as to have LCTurn put out something,That I can see, will work for the generation of the toolpaths that should be created. I 've gotten the CAD to work,and finally got the right way to post a DWG.and have it display in LCTurn,but as I said,other problems with the changes in the tool setup, that I can't see. Got to be ME. Why also does LCTurn crap out,and then when I reload the same file, it takes quite awhile to show the part. Uses alot of RAM... shows the part in B&W and says Y is in - and cannot produce, then after clicking OK, shows another error,and then have to ctrl-alt-delete,and close LCTurn. Nuff Said... But It'L Work ...Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 07, 2008, 08:46:15 PM
Hank,
Post any dxf that dosn't work.

Make note of what Chip has done to your files. Also make note of how he changed the profile relative to 0,0,0
/ you drawn the profile in the -x  + y quadrant / 9 to 12 o'clock quadrant in watch terms.

When you set up a tool in LazyTurn are you then creating it? Then select it as the one to use?

How you save a tool in LazyCam Turn is done a certain / different way and info is in the manual.

If you have a bad / inferior drawn / or problematic dxf, lazyturn will give you errors, and as stated
in another post, if the image dosn't happen then the drawing needs to be revised.
SOME COMMON MISTAKES IN THE DXF:
- Not drawn in the upper left quadrant and only showing one half of the profile
- Profile not  located to the left of 0,0,0
- Lines, curves, circles, or whatever do not connect to each other
- Poor transitions between parts of the profile
- Elements of the profile are not imported because they were shut off before the dxf was made
-  A negative element ( a line....even a little dot .....just a pixel.... is in the negative side of the profile
- Multiple lines ( one drawn over the other )
- Differences on how the dxf is created by diifferent programs and the differences between dxf fiel versions
- Elements which are attached to the profile by mistake and actualy touch it
Just a few drawing items that come to mind.

As far as generating Gcode from that profile, well, that is another story. We have done some stuff in here for testing
, but, practicaly speaking, even if the code was generated you may never be able to machine it without manipulating
the code, breaking it up into the proper or practical machining sequence. So the gcode is another story.

RICH   

MODIFIED TO ADD BELOW:
And just when you think you are the master of the profile, artesan of the mouse, checker of checker, some little pixel fragment
comes along and  humbles you again! and again....and again.......  ;D


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 08, 2008, 12:58:18 AM
Thanks Chip

Looks very good, this is a file i can use.
Would you send me a screenshot of the toolparameterpage?

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 08, 2008, 01:07:04 AM
Hi, Willem

I don't do much MM cutting, Hope the spacing is OK, If you have any questions, Iet me know.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: sanlee on December 08, 2008, 07:02:30 AM
Hi All

I have made one dxf file as attached to make inner side radius of 100mm in disk. when i opened in LT and generate toolpath it did not correctly but it created as shown in photo. Also i have tried to creat file in LCam then also it is not creating. i have drawn different types of files to creat inner radius or 100mm but fails. please help me what i have done is wrong? Also when i am closing LT it is showing an error as shown in Post390.

thanks

sanlee
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 08, 2008, 08:31:13 AM
Hi:

 The shutdown error is an indication a toolpath was stopped in generation at some point or that a step was skipped due to sensing a bad profile.
This profile woudl be problematic as it faces the wrong way for LazyTurn or the tool wont fit properly in that narrow arc. Future versions may handle it p[roperly , but really its a facing job that facing backwards, and neither LCam nor LTurn will properly do facing.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 08, 2008, 12:27:41 PM
Hi Chip

My lathe is not ready yet so i cant make a hardcopy but if i load the tap file(s) in Mach3 i get wrong circles (see screenshot).
I already changed from absolute IJ mode to inc IJ mode but that makes no diverend.
I also put Mach3 in YZ plane mode but also not divergence.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 08, 2008, 12:45:48 PM
Hi, Willem

Set Turn Options to this in ports and Pins.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 08, 2008, 01:54:27 PM
Hi,
Rich, Chip, I'm not ignoring you guy's. I'm tring to retrace my steps to get a dxf to post,into LCTurn. I took your advice,and am having TODO's reporting everytime I put the file in LCTurn. Still working on WHY! I did'nt have this trouble yesterdayAM,and something is Happening Now. I'll be back Later....   Thanks,   Hank S.

PS> got the tool to save,and the style etc.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 08, 2008, 02:00:24 PM
Hi:

 If you get a "todo" , please post the dxf that does it, Ill fix up the error and let you know why it occured..

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 08, 2008, 03:51:14 PM
Hi Guys:

  New version for you with more issues fixed..


Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 08, 2008, 04:07:05 PM
Art,Chip,& Rich,
Ok,I Think, I finally got it,WHEW! TODO's Gone. What seems to be the problem,in STDCAD,My drawing software, if you draw a part,and go to a different shape,such as line to circle,to arc,they won't SNAP, together,unless you command to do so. I've been fighting this,and not sure why is was not doing it Right on other DWG's. Evidently, there is a space(as mentioned) in between the intersecting lines,TOO SMALL to see,but are there without the SnapTo. A-HAH, Now I think I've got it.  One other problem, is Depth per pass won't stay set,in LCTurn, keeps going to 0.040 when changed to 0.100, 0.040 makes a solid block in the toolpath, have to zoom way out to see,and takes awhile to load. Is this my-fault or just playing around to get some other setting's to work. Tools definition's are good and stay as set. now on to how to get LCTurn dwg,,in LC to create gcode, to cut the part, in pass's created. I Think I'm On A Roll!...Maybe Not Yet.   Thanks Guy's...  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 08, 2008, 04:09:24 PM
Hi Hank:

 New version remebers depth of cut.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 08, 2008, 04:09:44 PM
ART,
In Dec8, "Depth per Pass" is persistant but it moves the decimal point 2 places to the right.
Enter .025 and it reopens as 2.5  consistant with any entry.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 08, 2008, 04:32:47 PM
Also, could you please explain what this LEAK represents ?
It is present after closing LT but only when a path has been generated.
It seems to increment up 1 for each path generated while a given profile is open.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 08, 2008, 04:55:14 PM
Hi:

 Sorry about that, I had tested it, but I may have been in just radius or diamter mode..

The Leak isnt actual, its a warning that the object wasnt deleted by LTurn as it closed, I need to search for it, very small
objects so its not a big deal really.
Seems intermittant.. But Ill search for it..
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 08, 2008, 05:02:28 PM
Thanks ART.
Further investigation reveals that if the DEPTH is set at only 1 decimal place, .2 for instance, it sticks. But if you enter .025 or .02  it jumps to 2.5 or 2 respectively.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 08, 2008, 06:07:29 PM
Art,
Maybe a clue for you.
 The Rough Pullout screen, when first opened in previous versions, showed the tool depth setting for the tool you selected, and noticed that the depth setting is off by "THREE" decimal places. Just did this for the botton tool and havn't checked the other tools.

In fact it seems to vary.
created        rough depth
tool depth
.002             2
.032             3.2

Rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 08, 2008, 06:50:11 PM
Art,
For most tests i have been using the button or diamond.

I get TO DO's with the square tool.
Should we avoid any tool's? Can post the file with info?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 08, 2008, 11:23:55 PM
hmm, Ill run some test swith square tools.. Post the file just in case..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 08, 2008, 11:58:54 PM
Hi Guys,
No TODO error but this path looks bad at the flange of this spindle with the selected square tool.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 09, 2008, 12:25:35 AM
Hi, Art

LazyTurn is getting better all the Time For Sure, For what it worth.

If you set Read Only to the LT.xml with a value of 0.1 for RoughPass.

When you start LT the value changes to .2 then it's a divide / multiply issue that persists.
If  Depth Per Pass is 0.10 PerPass =.0500 turns into 10 Depth Per Pass next time Rough Profile is opened again.
If  Depth Per Pass is 0.15 PerPass =.00750 turns into 15 Depth Per Pass next time Rough Profile is opened again.
and so-on. Pic's

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 09, 2008, 12:29:42 AM
Hi, Art

File save Worked on these Ver's of LT, Please.

Pic's

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 09, 2008, 06:26:39 AM
Art,
To do with square tool and file attached.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 09, 2008, 07:16:09 AM
Hi Rich:

  Foudn and fixed, the real problem is the tool is impossible.

A square tool with an inscribed circle of .01 cannot physically have a tool tip radius of .01, they cannot fit
in the equation for a square. Hence, the tip is impossible by physical definaition, so the tip didnt get created,
this caused a fault when the program tried to match the collisions.

  Ive captured the fault and it will generate a "tip failure" in future. Its also why the tool looks round, its trying to fit the .01 tip radisu on each of the 4 corners of a tool
which has an incribed radisu of only .01.

 Ill try as well to make the tool generator tell you thats impossible. Once fixed, I get a fairly good toolpath from it.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 09, 2008, 11:20:08 AM
Great Art,
It would be nice if an input fault was given for some off the wall input. I don't how far you take the error stuff
though. Maybe just let time take it's course.
 
But.....need to keep just one, ie; maybe the  button tool for representing a point tool with almost no width
for turning of small stuff even if it dosn't make sense!

RICH

  
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 09, 2008, 04:34:42 PM
Rich:

 New version out soon, it wont allow such tools to exist. Also ..save parameters if fixed for depths and such.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 09, 2008, 04:55:58 PM
NEw version that will not allow illegal circ/tip combinations.

Not complete, it wont warn you, it will just make a tool that is as close as you can physically get.
I suspect this will stop allot of those weird errors. Also, parameter saving is fixed.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 09, 2008, 05:27:53 PM
ART,
Can you share preliminary  thoughts on any of the tool restriction's.

Will there be any difference between restrictions of say a roughing or finishing tool?
ie; The total tip must fit into an inscribed circle of *********x" for a button tool or *********x" / different for each of
the other tool's.
                                                                                  
What would be the smallest tip radius?
( 0.001" is a tough one practicaly speaking, but 0.002 to .004" is not)

Can the min holder width be equal to the tip radius?

My concern is that because of the clash detection / and you can't turn it off / tip radius is say restricted to .010" / or no profile code generation , that turning of small items will suffer, thus code generation for the model maker won't be easly available.
Frankly your almost there now, but.....i can't relate to what effect that has on causing programing problems.

RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 09, 2008, 06:22:22 PM
AHH.... ART,
Had me worried until i saw your new version post.
Fooling with it now, the tool tip failure is nice.
And even if code is posted i see that the code is not right and the roughing cuts are lacking in
the gcode.
Time to play. :)
Rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 09, 2008, 07:10:12 PM
Tim:

  No real restriction, it just has to have a shape, and the shape must be real. For example, an incribed circle of 1mm cannot have tip radii of 5mm, the radisu is larger than the size of the tool itself. Inscribed circle tells the program how large the tool is, the tp radius really shoudl be able to be set to zero, a sharp point on the tip, that will happen soon. An inscribed circle is , for those unaware, the largest circle that can be placed on the tool without extending off the edges. Tip radisu is the roundness of the pointy parts.. :)

  SO the only real concern in the end is that I dont allow you to specify mathmatically impossible shapes. I hope to allow you to draw a shape in the end.. I wrote the collision detection to take into accoutn any shape at all, not matter how complex, though it will slow the algorithms that check the gouge. Slowness will be the main issue, though I havent as yet tried to optimise speed at all, Im more worried about accuracy and safety to be frank, Id rather 10 guilty men go free, than one innocent man go to prison, or Id rather have too much material remain, than too much taken away. Easy to fix one.. hard to fix the other ..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 09, 2008, 09:42:42 PM
Art,
There is joy on my end with parameters being saved. :)

The same dxf file from post #353 was used to generate the attached comments.The comments are similar to that post also.Seems the button tool was fixed but not the 35 , 55 diamond tool. didn't try the others. You can see the Gcode as viewed in MAch.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 09, 2008, 10:01:09 PM
Hi, Art

Very....Very Nice, Not needing to translate all these numbers around is Fantastic, It was driving me crazy.

Jumping to end cutting, With a 0.0001 offset in Y(X) value, The Rt end finish should be no more than normal clean-up work on part's and after the rough/finish pass is implemented it will be nice. Pic below.

Thinking down the road a little more, If you made Y= 0+values as they are (outside cut's) and Y= 0- values (inside cut') and zero "no man's" zone, Drawing a part profile could be mirrored  for ether ?

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 09, 2008, 10:03:43 PM
Great timing RICH,  :D I was posting as you were.  GOOD WORK.
Was just going to note that the tip fails at .0004 and lower. It's fine at .0005
Also, the holder width is out by a factor of 2 to 1 to the IC display. No Biggie.
Getting better every day ART.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 09, 2008, 11:44:04 PM
Thanks Rich:

  Ill work on it in the morning.. looks better, just still a bit touched when doign undercuts. ( thats why somne programs dont allow undercuts..

 Not possibel to show in different colour.. 3d modeling is a tough art.. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mick on December 10, 2008, 01:08:28 PM
Hello to all,
              just been trying to install latest LT release, but keep getting  message SGCORE.DLL was not found.

i have the latest MACH release installed, and have downloaded and re-installed LT a couple of times.

no problems with previous installs. help please.
                                                          rgds mick.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 10, 2008, 01:23:25 PM
Hi Mick,
 Did you install the LC Update from the Dwnlds section ?
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 10, 2008, 01:30:57 PM
Hi, Mick

Make sure it's in the C:\Mach3 "main" Folder and you start it there, After you un-zip it you need to copy it there.

Edit: LazyCam 3.00.2 Update    http://www.machsupport.com/downloads.php  Then install the latest up-date as above

Hope this Helps, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mick on December 10, 2008, 03:19:21 PM
RC,CHIP,
           Many thanks,every thing up and running.
       
           i had missed the LCupdate.
                                               RGDS mick.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 10, 2008, 03:36:02 PM
Thx guys..

  Its only because of your testing it is where it is. Ill work on making 0 the minimum tip radius ( sharp point in other words..)

Chip:  Not a bad idea at all, Ill keep that in mind when I look to inside turning.. be awhile though. Im being a bit picky on this one to make sure
all works as well as I can.. Your toolpaths are looking pretty good, and your right, with a very small pass depth, just cleanup woudl pretty much make the piece, but it'd be a bit nasty of a finish. Whats required I think is a rough to .1 then a .1 finish pass. But that too is likely to be awhile. When Im finished cleaning up what we have the next step of "rough/finish" is going to be a bugger mathmatically..

-- Ill check the other diamonds, I thought I caught them too, but maybe not.

Still not sure why the roughing screwup on that inside chase.. but Im sure its related to the undercut..


( I notice this thread seems to be getting popular.. must be allot more turners out there than ever before. )

Thx,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 10, 2008, 04:45:57 PM
Just wondering.....What is the purpose or practicality of having a tip radius of less than .0005" .
Forgive me if I fail to see why an effort has to be made to reduce this to 0.
Just curious.
Great work ART !
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 10, 2008, 05:53:50 PM
RC,
I'm the culprit pushing for a real small tip radius.

Others please chime in with opinions. 

It doesn't have to be less than .001".  I selected that as the smallest value because practically speaking
never been able grind / hone one down to less than that number. In fact .002"  to .004" is probably
more like it when touched up. Most will never be able to actually measure it.

Not a programmer, but somehow i feel that a 0 value could just cause a problem. In the
miniature world of turning you will actually use a point tool and that tool will not look like any conventional tool.
Maybe a better way of saying it "you got the  gcode......the tool is up to you".

If some value is going to cause the program grief and time not well spent, then scrap it.
That's the my take on the practical tooling side.

Now from a programing / program side of things, I haven't the foggiest on what the limits are. I figure Art can judge that at any time.
RICH




Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 10, 2008, 06:05:10 PM
Hi:

  For all intents and purposes there is no real good reason, a radius of .0005 is effectively 0.0 in real world terms. It means an error tolerance of .001 ( inch or mm) in a
profile, so it has no real effect. Internally however, I just have to ensure low values are treated fairly for the sake of stability.
  Questions like this one go to stability in the end, and the theory of "If they CAN break it, they WILL" , which is somethign I have learned over the past
few years. It was my decision early on in LTurn to allow for this, and to profit from it by allowing it to be broken, shut off each avenue as I can, and then
I wont have to worry so much about support. In Mach3 I quite often use the axiom that "If it hurts to laugh,..dont laugh.." , but in LazyTurn I want people
to go ahead and break it if they like, if I can shut off that door, I will, and hopefully we'l have much less support questions from things that shouldnt be done, because internally
the program will correct whats wrong before you see it.

One of the reasons for example that more files now load, is that I change them as they come in , or just tell
you that they wont load. The program now "AutoTolerates" so that lines that dont join, automatically stitch
together as long as it doesnt create discontinuities in the math functions. This means the program will try a
 tolerance of .1 for example, and if it finds that this creates a conflict, it will jump back and set the toleance
to .01 and try again, then .001 etc.. until it either solves the problem, or rejects the file.

  By the time LazyTurn is complete, I will be very well armed to tackle some of these type of issues in LazyCam
which suffers greatly from tolerance issues. These sort of notifications therefore go toward educating me on the issues,
and even if they sound kinda crazy at times, they actuall do have their place in the scheme of things.

 :-)
  
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 10, 2008, 06:25:30 PM
Quote
miniature world of turning you will actually use a point tool and that tool will not look like any conventional tool.
Maybe a better way of saying it "you got the  gcode......the tool is up to you".

I think that this is a great point and should at least be considered.

If Art can do it without losing his mind (!), then great, but if it's going to kill things, I don't see it as a deal breaker either.

Thanks again for all you do, fellas.  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 10, 2008, 06:37:01 PM
Would envison that there will be more problems with folks not being able to machine to
dimension because their machine system isn't capable than something generated from Lazyturn.

Three generic gcode test programs for the lathe should easliy put that in perspective, namely:
- One for X axis movement, one for Z axis movement, and one for a combination move.
Number of combination move loops would be equal to:
STOCK REMOVAL THICKNESS / SMALLEST CUT x 4  

This post off thread, but it just comes to mind.
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bowber on December 10, 2008, 06:52:29 PM
A lot of users like to think their machine is more accurate than it actually is, but there are a few that do seem to have very accurate small machines.
I would think that as far as the software goes it shouldn't mind working with tight tolarances as it's based around maths so you should be able to work with very small numbers.

While I'll be very happy to have my mill machine to within 0.01mm one day I don't think it's asking a decent lathe too much to do that normally.

Steve
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 10, 2008, 09:15:37 PM
ART, RICH.....Thanks for the explanations.
I guess what prompted my question was reply 436 where Rich was seemingly requesting a tip rad. of .001 where Dec9.zip just prior allowed a setting of .0005   I just assumed that would be adequate and ART could move on to whatever would be next.

The more BULLET PROOF the better.

Thanks guys,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 11, 2008, 02:12:28 PM
Here is a strangeness.
The X pointers have no color, the Z ones do ....in the normal view.
Flip the display and the opposite is true.
Is this just mine ? Or do any of you see the same ?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 11, 2008, 03:14:35 PM
I have red brown and blue showing for the X and green and yellow showing for the Z.

When you flip the view, they're the same colors.

Dave

EDIT: you see my rulers on both sides as well.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 11, 2008, 04:05:57 PM
Thanks Dave.  Mine used to be fine...like yours.
Must have worn it out ::)....or rubbed the paint off anyway. :D
See Ya,
RC  8)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 11, 2008, 05:28:00 PM
Hi, Art

Hears a dxf problem file, Loads fine on my other Cad software.

In LazyTurn it's not scaled correct.

Edit: This file will load in LazyCam Turn and post sii Pic's in next Post, Last 2 Pic's.

Art, Your statement: ( By the time LazyTurn is complete, I will be very well armed to tackle some of these type of issues in LazyCam
which suffers greatly from tolerance issues. These sort of notifications therefore go toward educating me on the issues,
and even if they sound kinda crazy at times, they actuall do have their place in the scheme of things.)

Your statement is so true, LazyCam Mill....Turn, Were getting very close, Just some final bug's for the most part, Turn may have had some additional technical issues.

But as a overview are very Nice !!

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 11, 2008, 05:48:55 PM
Hi, Art

This one is fine, Something to compare to.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 11, 2008, 06:04:25 PM
RC,
version: LAZYTURNDEC9
I think it's bug or it's telling you something.
 If you use diagnostic ouput the first time you loose the color in the X pointers.
Go out and back in- then does the same, but as soon as i click ok for a selected tool pointer color lost.
Seems to stick that way.

- replacing with older version - no change
- reload v....Dec9 and reboot - no change

RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 11, 2008, 06:53:20 PM
Hi All,
Don't know if you tried this out yet but by providing a different value's in the z axis pointer,
in this case it was negative (-.159"), the roughs are generated at a different starting point as shown in the attached. Haven't checked the gcode, since as you can see that it still needs some work. I deleted some code in Mach Turn for the pic.

I assume that enventualy you will be able to pick based displayed pointer value or actually use dim's you know are correct.

That's easy and nice Art.   :)

RICH
 

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 11, 2008, 07:14:59 PM
Art,
Curious,
So will you be limited to picking just a single starting point or will it mature into a some range of the profile?
Maybe i am dumb, but can the other slider value be used to accomplish the above?

A "go to" option  / gcode move to the next selected section point would be nice.This move could be automaticlay put into the gcode ( and maybe thus labeled "(move to next point )" . Take this one step futher and maybe insertion of an entry move.

Maybe you can use the pointer values again to generate the  "go to" mentioned above.

Yes, very lazy here.  ;)

RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 11, 2008, 07:35:47 PM
Thanks for the verification on the colors RICH :)

Chip,
 I opened your dxf in AutoSketch and found all kinds of overlaps and gaps. Cleaned them up and it goes through to LT OK now..here anyway.
See pics.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 11, 2008, 07:38:25 PM
Oh....and here is the DXF I ended up with for Chip's part.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 11, 2008, 08:35:35 PM
Hi Chip,
The circles are at the overlaps and the square is at a gap.
Have to zoom WAY in to see them.
Regards,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 11, 2008, 09:08:28 PM
Hi Chip,
I took Grahams original King, scaled it down .001:1 and got the same 2 errors as you did originally.
Then I scaled down .01:1 and there was only 1 bad spot (circled), corrected it and all went well.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 11, 2008, 09:34:11 PM
Hi, Russ

Thanks Russ for the Picture, Well I did find a cad that show's them, Show's them as 0.0002" long, Intersection of Arc/Line,.

This file was from a cad/cam generated Offset and shows clean lines/arc's in 2 cad programs hear, Zoomed all the way in.

Edit: It's a tolerance issue, Cad, Cam and Accuracy, Balancing Act.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 11, 2008, 11:34:25 PM
My thought on sectioning is that after a profile is generated ( the math here relies on generating the entire profile..) Id like to simply drag a slider that selcts a section, but that will be a posting section item, you select a section ( or the whole profile ) and then when it posts the code, it does so only for that section. It would then allow for a job to be cut in sections in any order you wish, graphiclly , without much hardhsip on the user... ( just a thought..)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 12, 2008, 12:31:41 AM
Hi, Art

Need to think on that idea for awhile.

Hears a cleaner file with 0.0001 overlap in yellow causing 1/2 the profile not to load and a file with ii fixed, Seems to be very small overlap's.

Edit: Tap & Pic's

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 12, 2008, 07:15:47 AM
Chip & RC,
Part of the overlap seems to be in the negative part of the profile.
And lazyturn doesn't like that. Good scenario for checking out the tolerance acceptance for
the import though. Will follow your lead though and will try a few things and come up with a list
of what seems to work and not work.

I just added lines or a point above and below the profile, attached or detached by some distance for rejection before. Using another program for comparison, that one will take the profile but will only generate gcode for a single profile cut and only for acceptable parts of the profile. So you have an instant visual reference of something wrong at any point along the profile.

Maybe Lazyturn can do the same or similar thing as it goes through clash detection and stop at the point.
On the other hand, it could turn into being a PITA. Need to think about this some more.

Will spend some time tonight fooling around and will then post.
Rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on December 12, 2008, 03:33:46 PM
Art,

I like the sound of the segmented output but I think a snap point drag would be good so that small areas are not missed or a drag to next intersection.

Graham
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 12, 2008, 04:12:24 PM
Hi Art

I don't know if it is already been asked but Will there be the possibility to use more then one tool in a project?

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 12, 2008, 05:05:02 PM
Willem:
 
  Only as 1 tool for roughing, one for finish rough and one for finish..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 12, 2008, 08:53:12 PM
Hi All,
 ART, I must admit the importing is really good and have been trying to break it.

Hopefully the following will provide some insight into the forgiveness built into Lazyturn.

 LAZYTURN IMPORT OF DXF FILES -  CAD DRAWING ERRORS
1.A vertical line going up or down at the end of the profile is accepted but not required.
2.Additional elements  ie; multiple lines / one drawn under the other will cause an
  error " self intersection in master file" and no rendered graphics will be displayed.
3.Lines vertical or parrallel not connected to the profile ( even as close as .0001") are ignored.
4.A vertical line touching the profile will cause part of the profile to be ignored. The part ignored is
  is to the right of the line. If the line dosn't touch the profile then the line is ignored.
5.Two vertical lines touching the profile will cause rejection of profile to the left of the lines and
   acceptance of the profile to the right of the two lines. I didn't check to see what happens as the
   gap between the two vertical lines is increased to some value.
6.A break in the profile continuity on a straight horizontal line from .001" to about .11" still provides
  for a rendered image. With the break exceeding .11" to .2"  it acts as a break in the profile
  and the left side of the profile is accepted / is the beginning of the rendered profile.
7. Space between intersecting circles .001" to .1"  still allows for a rendered graohic but a
    horizontal line is created to complete the profile. Greater than .1" and the left side of the profile
    is created as if it was the start of the profile at zero.
8.LazyTurn will reject lines in the lower half of the profile ( similar to 3 above ) including lines drawn
   through the profile, but, no negative y values are allowed, and if they exist you will get an error
   message telling you so.
9.When partial circles ( arcs not touching / terminating at a common tangent point) overlap, the amount of
   overlap modifies the profile similar to #7 above. Starting at a overlap tail of approx .050" only a partial
   rendered profile will be produced. Note that #7 to #9 are for circles which would follow some basic shape
   formula, thus a continous profile can be generated. This may not be the case for a non basic
   shape / non generic  math formula.

I am sure there are others that you can find and list. Lazyturn is very tolerant and seems to allow for
many common errors but nothing beats doing it right the first time. Don't take this as gospel but rather
what my testing with the attached file found.

RICH
   
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 13, 2008, 04:06:37 AM
Hi Art

That means we have to make several G-code file's to make one project, for each tool a separate file and at last joint them together.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 13, 2008, 08:35:34 AM
Willem:

   No, when its done, you will just select the three operations, one by one, and when posting the program will take care of making the entire GCode file. At the moment all you have is roughing, so you can only do th efirst stage...

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 14, 2008, 10:08:44 AM
Hi Art

I am afraid that i did not expres myself good.
What i mean that sum shapes can not be cut with one tool in one pass.
As you can see on the screenshot the red area must be cut with a second tool.
this go's for roughing as well for finishing.

P.S.
Should the yellow square not be removed in this pass?

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 14, 2008, 10:52:16 AM
Willem:


 It should.. and Im still looking into a better algorithm to determine that.. Not as easy as it sounds to make that right on all profiles.. but Im getting close..

:)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 14, 2008, 11:57:44 AM
Art,
What's your definition of the rough / finish pass?
Not sure you even need a second distinct step since it could be taken care of by tool selection and just posting.
IE; rough takes away the bulk stock as defined by slider / mouse selection / manual definition of extents with
whatever tool is chosen.  I would just create a tool with maybe different cut depths / parameters and rough away ( could be the same tool in the holder).
That roughing would be posted ( and if something were noted in the posted code, easy editing) . If the program were more advanced it maybe would tabulate / table  each of the steps your going thru and allow for modification to them.  
The finish is giving you the final profile tool passes based again on selected tool.

Can a different tool be selected for each of the three steps ( or will it be limited to first selected tool for
all of the steps?

Will any of the tools be usable for any of the steps?

I gather that your going to limit LazyTurn for the free version in some way and should you continue the
development would add additional features to it. As always, i remark that what is simple may be complex on the programing side.
 

A program can't anticipate what profile and combination of tools and steps the user will actually do to machine a profile.
Granted your not going to use a triangle to do a square groove, but, maybe someone will try, and tool misuse becomes apparent by the restriction of generated pass. Quess I'm just saying that a program shouldn't have to teach someone how to machine a profile. Even a simple profile could be machined numerous ways.

Just some thoughts,
RICH




Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 14, 2008, 12:33:31 PM
Hi Rich

Roughing is just what you say "get away the bulk of material" so you want to do that quick with a great cutdepth and short chips, it don't have to be smooth just quick.
For that purpose you can use a special tool with other parameters (roughing with a very small tooltip is asking for broken tools) and a heavy body then finishing tools, also if the tip of the tool is not so nice oke but he needs to cut quite a Lot in a short time.
The bigger the workpiece the more important roughing will be.

The screenshot is just an example to show that some tools are not capable to get all the material away and will not go in every shape.
What i would like to see that you can point a part of the toolpath and tel the program to use a specific tool for that part.
That means also that the g1 code is not always direction chuck but sometimes direction tail.
Until now the button tool is used but with a button with a body of 0,5mm width there will be no large chips

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 14, 2008, 01:46:28 PM
Rich:

  Roughing as a step can leave larger chunks than onw wouel eant to ake in a finsh pass, so ID define "Fine-Rough" as a step that reduces the chucks to a size managable by a finish tool. ( typically the same tool as the finish pass woudl be generated with. Basically iits a safety pass to clean up the profile so that a proper finish pass can be applied without hurting the finish tool. Any tool can be used for any pass, but by allowing a fine-rough pass, youd know that the same tool now can do a proper finish pass without marring the surface.

  A proper surface finish requires we dont rub the stock,nor chatter from overstress on the tool, but come as close to the "finishdepth" of material removed on the entire pass, this will eliminate chatter and rub problems in the final finish as the finish tools stress is held as close as possible to a static condition during that final pass.

 Thats wht I planned for anyway. :)

  As to the fact that multiple rough passes may nbe necessary, that too is already int he code, but its completion requires the fine-rough stage to be a valid one as its inputs conditions will be used by the second or third rough pass. Its input conditions are calculated by the first rough pass. SO I need to progress a bit further before you begin to see secondary roughing. In all cases the tools will be unrestricted and any can be used on any stage.


  Im working now of some optimisations that Ive left for a long time, so Im hoping next version will be much faster than previosu version, and Ive also added auto-stitch that fixes some drawing where end's done meet to starts or overlaps exist. The program now tries to fix such things on the fly for even more file loads.


Art


Art
 

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 14, 2008, 08:07:02 PM
Hi, Art

Have a question, Can the Yellow marker ref. the X Zero point, Then Green marker would show cut start point as drawing shows hear.

As it is there is a disagreement in the value, The Blue marker shows part Diameter from Y Zero point.

Hope this makes sense, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 14, 2008, 10:50:24 PM
Hi, Art

Tool settings shone in these 3 Pic's seem pretty Good. !!

Within each Group there are some strange results though, Some of the setting values seem inch/mm crossed up or Something.

WOW, Very Nice Art, Thanks, For all the hard work.

Hears a dxf of the King with 2 final passes and 1 rough pass, If you missed it bottom of page 47. "  King_Master_Tap_Test_3.tap ".

Just off in the Oz-Zone Hear Working, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 16, 2008, 01:21:11 PM
Hi Guys:

  Heres a new version that takes into accoutn an overhang on the pullouts. Its also optomises some for speed considerations..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 16, 2008, 05:23:27 PM
Hi, Art

Seems faster, Yellow overhang marker values agree now, Tool's seem better also, Thanks.

Still getting the File Open Error hear, Are you not having the same Problem. ?

If you don't create a 0 k Blank file and over write an existing file, It dose not over write the previous content completely and the file just get's bigger & bigger.

It's just a Paine ..........

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 16, 2008, 06:00:10 PM
Still having the same file saving issue here as well, Chip-

Thanks Art -  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 16, 2008, 07:21:01 PM
CHIP,
My file save is different here. Try this:
1. create a clean file lets call it "blank.txt"
2. post to that file ( now don't close it / leave it open in notepad ) - FOR THIS ONE I DID A COMPLETE ROUGH CUT
3.do another rough cut - I DID A CUT BASED ON A DIFFERENT Z START POINT ALONG THE PROFILE
4. post to the same file ( i will get notepad showing me another file of the same name but with the different rough cut posted in it)
5.open another file using notepad, lets call it blank 1 ( you can now copy from either or both of the banks still open to blank 1 in any order you want, partial or full
you can't copy from blank to blank BUT YOU CAN SAVE EACH INDIVIDUAL FILE

MODIFIED: ADDED ATTACHMENT AND NOW ADDED CAPS TEXT
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 16, 2008, 08:22:42 PM
Hi, Rich

It's Not that I can't save a File, It's just, It's A Gigantic Pain in the Butt,

It worked just fine in 3 early er Versions in Pic below and created the File with ought the need for all the Extra Steps.

There may be a Technical Reason, I just don't see it, Adding back in a Few lines of Code, By Art.

Eliminating the need for the Extra Steps for All the Tester's Hear.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 16, 2008, 08:24:20 PM
ART,
Thanks for the posting ability. I wanted to fool with mutiple cuts using different slider values and it will be so much easier to do now.
Before doing that, there are still some issues i found on the rough cuts when using different tools and will try to duplicate and post what i am seeing.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 16, 2008, 08:44:10 PM
CHIP,
I certainly second what your saying as the windows save is still not right and it would be nice to have it.
I did some 50 dxf postings and it is certainly adds up to wasted time. But the saving as just posted will be a good assist also. Maybe ART will comment.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 16, 2008, 11:44:59 PM
sorry guys, I kept missing that problem, Ill have it fixed next release.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 17, 2008, 12:34:59 AM
Hi, Art, Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 17, 2008, 04:52:52 AM
Thanks so much, Art, that would be teriffic -
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 17, 2008, 11:36:25 AM
Art,
Thanks for fixin the slider, I wondered how I was going to get to 0.0....
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 17, 2008, 10:40:20 PM
Hi Guys:

  File fix.. This one will create or overwrite files..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 17, 2008, 11:03:03 PM
Hi, Art

Work's Great, Thank You.!!'

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 17, 2008, 11:12:03 PM
Nice fix....thanks.
Here is another strangeness.
The profile OD is 2.8146
If the Stock OD is set at any value less than 2.85, the small OD's of the profile will not be cut.

Easy enough to just "lie" about the actual stock OD to get around this but it seems like entering any value OVER the Profile OD should generate the desired paths.
Thanks again,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 17, 2008, 11:24:19 PM
I think I see why.
The Depth Per Pass is added to the Profile OD which becomes the min. Stock OD.
Maybe that's the way it is supposed to be.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 18, 2008, 08:26:40 AM
Hi Guys:

   True. Its the original stock dimension assumtion thats killing that one. Perhaps I should add a small amount to the stock ( say 5%) as a rule
as the piece loads. The user can then set the dimension, but due to the way the algorithm works, it does need soem stock overage to properly
identify the first pass. Ill add that to my list.

  We're almost ready to move to the next stage I think, things are working pretty well overall, so Im looking to see what my plan is for the next progression,
I havent decoided yet what is most logical, but we'll see what happens.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 18, 2008, 02:43:08 PM
Hi, Art

Went back to an earlier version where -Y was allowed, Hears a Inside profile that looks pretty good.

It really needs to post in X+ to be cut by std. boring bar and std. chuck rotation for most users.

Any chance of allowing zero <= -.0001 quadrant again for testing ?

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 18, 2008, 04:56:09 PM

Chip:

  Ill see what I can do, there are other things that I need to modify other than just the X- , but the code does work in reverse, it was planned that way to allow for just what you see,
and it helps in facing as well..

 Anyway, Ill see if I can allow it soon, I have a few other things to touch up first as well..

Thx,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 18, 2008, 07:22:57 PM
Hi Art,
thanks for the save fix  :)

A few comments
1. input boxes above triangles only highlight to 2 decimal palces / make them longer?
2.can the pointer be changed to a crosshair when in the profile?
3. should their be ruler divisions when an offset is done
4.Under FILE, provide for closing of the file
5.Is the loss of triangle color deliberate after a tool is selected or should it persist
6.Will there be a an OOPS / ability to go a step latere on?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 18, 2008, 08:04:36 PM
Hi, Rich

1. Boxes should be bigger.
2.
3. It would be nice.
4. It would be nice.
5. Not seeing problem hear, Post some pic,s of tool setting values, I'll try them hear.
6.

Hear are a couple of my tool settings, Try them.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 18, 2008, 08:24:37 PM
Chip,
It dosn't matter what tool i use. Just created one exactly like you just posted.
As soon as i select the tool  and click ok the "color only" in X triangles are lost and will not come back until i exiit out and come back into Lazyturn. I also just got a TODO.
Let me reboot, play around a little here, since it may only be on my end.
RICH

MODIFIED: MUST BE SOMETHING ON MY END. DOING IT WITH PAST VERSIONS OF LAZYTURN AND ALL FILES.
                Maybe the color is worn out of the triangles from playing with them  so much! :D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 18, 2008, 08:57:45 PM
Memory is going,
I'll reload Lazycam update date 3.00.2,     
Any body remember around what date art posted the Lazyturn version which was self standing?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 18, 2008, 09:53:48 PM
Hey RICH,
Pop back to page 46, Reply# 455
See if your indicators are colored on the back side like mine.
Just curious.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 18, 2008, 09:59:11 PM
...and #457
It must have gone by unnoticed. ::)  EDIT: Oh...cept for Dave the "BUDMAN"   (thanks Dave)
Let me know if you have any paint left when you're done, I'll repaint mine.
 :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 19, 2008, 01:37:40 PM
Thanks Guys,
Didn't have the problem then so there was no comment by me.
It did the same pointer thing on the computer here at work, for a few tries at first then went back to normal,..... and now it's ok. Dah!....................
Let me see if  i can find what fed the Gremlin when i get back on the home computer later.
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 19, 2008, 02:32:30 PM
Hi Art

In mach3 (turn) and Lazyturn the feedrate is in MM/min or inch/min but  on my old conventional lathe feed is in MM (or inch) per revolution.
Could it be possible to make Mach3 and Lazyturn in MM or inch per revolution or do i stand alone in this wish.
feed per revolution gives a constant chips thickness regardless the spindle speed.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 19, 2008, 05:41:04 PM
HI Willem:

 All youd have to do is put the feed/rev gcode in the post prelog box, and clkaim the feedrate as you wish it to be in units/rev..

 But eventually I'll add a checkbox for that..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 19, 2008, 08:19:59 PM
Hi, Art

Hears a DXF that won't generate a rough except in Diagnostic Output mode.

Edit: last pic is for 2 post down.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 19, 2008, 09:53:37 PM
CHIP,
I don't think that that Lazyturn is the problem with arc.3.dxf. I had problems with the file in all versions of Autocad and three versions of Microstation. I attached one of the error messages from autocad. Even if it was read, still couldn't save it to a usable form for import by Lazyturn.
RICH 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 19, 2008, 10:49:38 PM
Hi, Rich

It works with a horizontal line on the right end , arc, diagonal line Up or Dn, But not as pictered or with a vertical line or no line.

I promise I didn't use smoke and mirror's hear, Why are they loading in LazyTurn & LazyCam hear ?

It may be a newer version of dxf 14 that your cad's can't read properly, There not always backward compatible.

My BobCad v23 has been working just fine hear, Had some Droughts early on, But I'm starting to Question your Cad programs now, Rich. ;D

Thanks, Chip  ::)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 19, 2008, 11:50:38 PM
Hi, Art & Rich

Hear are the 4 Dxf's for above Pic's.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 20, 2008, 08:26:02 AM
OK Chip,
F,E,D work here also.
Now C is still a challenge as to posting of roughs. Yes it will do a diagnostic output and also a limited posting if a z start offset offset is used as you have already shown. Redrew it so don't think it's anything on to do with our CAD stuff. Started trying some of the different rules i posted in post #474, but, maybe you found another one to be added to the list ( not sure what it is yet). I don't get any errors when importing C into ACAD 2007. I don't know why and need to get into work to try Microstation XML.

I can get C in Lazyturn to work but requires at least some kind of attached line ( even a horizontal one only 0.0001" long). Didn't go back to earlier versions to see if they would generate roughs. There are a lot of combinations you can come with in checking this out.
RICH



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 20, 2008, 08:54:33 AM
ART,
Here is a to TODO for Chip's Arc.3 dxf in reply #514. Only got it about 5 times out of 20 imports of the file.
Maybe you can shed some light on the last few posts. For the most part we have provided some type of line
or curve which provides for an x&y in the profile. Not any negative starting profiles even if in the correct
quadrant.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 20, 2008, 10:58:27 AM
Ill check it out to see why... Been working on soem other issues.. New release shouldnt be too long..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 20, 2008, 11:15:36 AM
Thanks Guys,
Chip,
 Looks like the rad at the end of the part cannot be tangent to the face. (if I'm saying that right)
I clipped enough off of the end of your arc so that it is not tangent to the end and it posts a path.
Might be a clue.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 23, 2008, 01:01:12 PM
HI Guys:

  The problem with the arc file is it starts with a decresing Y, l;eaving no tangent for the profiler. This is autofixed on load in this version.
Also, file close is added, and the box sizes for the numbers are better behaved, though maybe not perfectly. Sclaing in OpenGL is a bitch.

  This takes into accoutn a bit more in terms of pullouts.. and fixes a few other small items..

 Im working in the background now on a fine path, then the intermediate step "Rough/fine" will have to be done.

Thanks ( and Merry XMax)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 23, 2008, 01:46:09 PM
Happy Holidays ART.
This is strange...to me.
Granted, the part is large, but .101 DOC will cut the rad., .100 will not.
And the X pointers are colored on the back side after tool selection. Might be a graphics prob. on my end.
 
Cheers

Ooops...and the DXF.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 23, 2008, 02:07:22 PM
I see 1 prob with the dxf, line x+.
Even after removing it...same issue.
Changes proportional to  Stock Clearance entry.
 :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 23, 2008, 02:30:15 PM
Hi, Art

Getting a TODO error on ALL files I try to Open with latest ver. hear, So Far.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 23, 2008, 02:42:26 PM
Hi Guys:

  Dunno why the open error chip..

 The missing lines are relevant to the new "facing detection" for reasons I cant elucidate right now.
Try this version, I tightened it some..

Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 23, 2008, 03:07:31 PM
Much better here.
Can't get Chips TODO on any.
Send one to try here Chip.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 23, 2008, 03:14:00 PM
Yes, please send one in Chip as I'm not having an issue opening any either.

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 23, 2008, 04:05:24 PM
Hi, Guy's

Working hear now with latest ver, Thanks, Art, Wound up re-installing LC\update also, Earlier one today still TODO error.

Back to work hear.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 23, 2008, 05:50:31 PM
ART,
All files I tried worked like a charm, but, I m getting a warning message in LazyTurn on this one so you may want to take a look at it.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 23, 2008, 05:54:22 PM
 :D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 24, 2008, 12:35:11 AM
Hi, Guy's

Spoke to Soon Both new Ver's are ToDo-ing hear, Even tryed them on a different computer, The error indicates opengl32.dll error.

Program opens up, On dxf load TODO and crash is as far as it goes.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2008, 06:05:50 AM
Chip,
I just tried some 20 or more files using DEC23-1 version and they were imported / opened with no problems.  That included varying the three different options. The files are mostly from what has been tested and already posted. Never did try the DEC 23 version. I still have the problem of loosing the X triangle colors but are colored when the piece is rotated. Didn't try other computers. Is anything happening with other prorgrams your using?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 24, 2008, 06:55:33 AM
There is still one error I'm getting when closing LTurn and it's shown below.

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 24, 2008, 07:30:16 AM
Chip:

  Not sure why that would happen. The error seems to be from your OpenGL system..
Ill keep my eyes open for anyone else having that trouble, so far I havent been able to
repeat it..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 24, 2008, 07:31:53 AM

Hi Dave:

   Yes, there is an object going missing on me, Im still trying to track down which one
Im forgetting to delete.. :), there are dozens of possabilities and the damn thing wont warn me till it
errors out.. Still looking. Its only a small amout of memory, but Ill find it eventually..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2008, 08:21:33 AM
HI All,
All seems to be working fine on my one PC.
 
BUT.......... I am getting the TODO just like CHIP on the laptop...................

Now, I just did a "fresh" install of MACH V.20 along wiith lazycam to a different drive and the reboot of  the laptop.
Then installed  the Lazycam update. Then replaced the LAZYTURN file and no joy...get a TODO.
So I copied the stand alone directory over from the pc that works into a sub directory on the laptop ....get same TODO
If i use the old version of lazyturn 11/9 it will import files / works.

The pc that works had older versions of mach, and just recently upgraded it to MACH v.20.

Something going on here for sure. Let me try another cycle of install to the laptop and see what happens.
RICH


MODIFIED:   ART,  i still get the same error as BUD when closing but have just ignored it.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2008, 09:07:24 AM
ART,
All versions of the LAZYTURN application dated from NOV 9 thru and including DEC 17 will work with what is loaded on the laptop. TODO as soon as the application is replaced with the DEC 23 or DEC 23-1.
The laptop is 500 mhz / 512 memory while the other computer is 3 ghz / 2 gig memory.

Computer related or application file related? Any suggestions on what to look for on my end?
RICH

MODIFIED:  ADDED ERROR REPEORTS
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 24, 2008, 09:58:24 AM
Oh...still getting same LEAK here too.
No biggie, bigger fish to fry I'm sure.
Poses no problems, just an unnecessary alert.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 24, 2008, 11:36:26 AM
Hi Guys:

  Hmm. No erros here, but I may be using some OpenGL call not yet implemented across all
platforms.

 This version will attempt to report to you exactly what caused the ToDo error..Let me know any codes you see..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 24, 2008, 11:52:30 AM
Hi, Art

Thanks for the update, Hears 2 Pic's of the error I get now.

As you now most of us are lost with this Stuff, Hears a pdf and zip of some info that may apply to this, It talks about Bubble Buffering and such.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 24, 2008, 12:41:17 PM
Hi,All
Happy Holidays to All..
Art,I had a problem yesterday in loading LT. I  D/L'd The Dec.1 Zip (only), not the one before,stating that there was an error in  Dec23. I got all the way to do the toopath,and clicked on the settings for the tool,and everything went away, My screen went back to desktop,and no Mach or LT. Tried to open Mach,mill or turn, and even Mach Loader,and nothing happened. LT deleted all of Mach somewhere, and had to reinstall from D/L mach in my saved files section. That is strange, upon reloading,and going through the setup screens again Everything is Fine as if nothing had happened. All XLM's are saved ,and back in order. Something in LT that made this go to delete ALL Mach ,on my PC. I don't know if this is what is going on with the others,but am up and running again as if nothing had happened. Can't get LT to do it Again,and No TO DO's. or errors,just memory leak. No biggie,as brfore.  HTH guy's.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2008, 01:02:13 PM
Hi ART,
I'm getting the same 214 error code as Chip on the LAPTOP.
RICH

MODIFIED: COMPUTER #3 -  2.4ghz / 512 ram
                Works fine on this one, error on exit,  but no  loss of X pointer color . I upgraded this computer to MACH v*********.20
                and tried files from the other two computers.

SUMMARY: PC#1 - loss of x pointer color / otherwise good
                PC#2 - can't use any version lazyturn application after DEC 17
                PC#3 - no problems
                PC#4 - CAN'T USE ANY VERSION LAXYCAM APPLICATION AFTER DEC 17 " NO LOSS OF X POINTER COLOR"
               

MODIFIED: ADDED PC#4
               
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 24, 2008, 02:15:44 PM
Hi guys

Here in Holland it is 8 o clock in the evening, it is Christmas evening, i should say STOP, go home to the wife and children, give them a kiss (or 2 or 3 or....) take a big bottle of beer (you all earn it) and have a very very Merry Christmas.
Thanks for what everyone have done and greetings:

Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2008, 02:44:58 PM
Hey Willem,
Dankun, and i will be stopping, but the wife chased me out of the Kitchen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Miller) saying i was eating to manny Christmas cookies.
Cookies don't go to well with beer, but are fine with scotch.
 I assume assume Swarta Pete is still giving out Black Peter's over there, don't eat too many.  ??? Sorry for the my Dutch as the only other thing i learned over there was "IK hav ven yo", and I don't think you want to here that from me. ;)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 24, 2008, 03:03:06 PM
Rich

scotch will do as well, "ZWARTE PIET" is all ready home and yes you are richt I like to hear "IK HOUD VAN JOUW" rather from a beautiful women but thanks for the Dutch words.

Greeting:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2008, 03:11:05 PM
Willem,
No wonder none of those AMSTERDAM  dolls ever answered me. :D
Time to crack open the Usquaebach and enjoy.

Merry Christmas All,
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 24, 2008, 03:26:20 PM
Quote
Cookies don't go to well with beer,



Depends on the "cookie" you're eating!  ;D

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 24, 2008, 10:28:08 PM
Hi:

  Thats a weird one.. Ill keep my eyes open for similar..


As to the error codes, all I need it the ArtCode #, I have to add more as I go to narrow in, 214 was the last seen, this version may show more,
this will narrow me into what the problem is in those systems..

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 24, 2008, 10:45:33 PM
Hi, Art

Thank Art and HO HO HO, Merry Christmas to All.

Edit: Still err 214 hear, Well regrouping the king master dose load part way without a crash.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 25, 2008, 08:09:57 AM
ART,
Still getting 214 error code. Just a guess, but from DEC 17 version back, the mouse pointer didn't change to a cross
hair in the graphics part of display. The error happens when you click the "open" box in the file open pop up screen.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 25, 2008, 10:50:05 AM
Hi Guys:

  Hmm. OK..that narrows it a bit.. I expect youll get a different code this time.. Should narrow it to the actual trouble for me..

(Merry Xmas by the way. :) )

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 25, 2008, 11:32:04 AM
ART,
Getting a 406 error now.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 25, 2008, 12:42:31 PM
Hi, Art

Some files are loading now, But just in outline only, No graphics or tool showing and thy will post code.

Other files generate a 406 error, All though one did show full graphics, But 406 error trying to generate Rough view.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 25, 2008, 12:48:08 PM
Hi Guys,
  I did some experimenting trying to correct the pointer color display. I found this.
With the acceleration at FULL, there is no 406 error. However, if it is lowered to the setting shown, I get the 406.
I always keep mine FULL so I wasn't getting the errors.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 25, 2008, 01:24:14 PM
Hi Art

Did try the settings from RC and get the same results, no error on full acceleration and a 406 error on lower setting.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 25, 2008, 01:48:12 PM
Hi, RC

Doesn't seem to help hear, My BobCad v23 won't tolerate a setting above 2 clicks from None on the Acceleration.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 25, 2008, 02:02:39 PM
Hi Chip,
   When I use SheetCam, I need to set it at 2 clicks above NONE like you, but leave it up otherwise. I didn't suggest it as a fix but as a possible indication or clue for ART.
   Try this DXF on HIGH.. see what you get. ACad, Autodesk, Autosketch generated.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 25, 2008, 02:32:52 PM
Hi, RC

Your dxf works on ver prior to 12 23 08, But I get a 406 error on latest version no mater what the Accl. values are set to.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 25, 2008, 04:33:19 PM
HI All,
Well added another pc#4 for testing, NEC LAPTOP 400MHZ / 256 RAM.
Only good to prior 12 23 08 versions and will give the ( 214 error for dec 24 ver ),
(TODO for dec 24-3 ver) , ( 406 error for dec 25 ver),
but it dosn't loose the color in the x trangles. 

Changing accel values didn't do any good. All the computers here are set to the highest accel.

Lets see, four different computers here of varying make and model all running XP. The slower ones with less than
500 mhz / 512 only get to prior versions of DEC 23. The fastest / most memory only has a problem wiith loss of color
in the pointer / unless you flip it 180 degrees ( along with oss of color in the associated dimension boxes) but can run the DEC 25 VER with no problems other than stated. 

RC, no problem with your posted file in #555.

 ??? Beats me as if it's a Windows setting somewhere.  ???
RICH




Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 25, 2008, 06:57:05 PM
Hi Guys:

  Interesting.. seems it may have been a simple "-" sign I added for "safety". LOL

Try this one..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 25, 2008, 08:03:06 PM
ART
Good going, works for all three computers. Now let me see if i can break it.  ;)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 25, 2008, 11:04:55 PM
Hi, Art & All

Latest 25-4 seems to work hear also, U-Ho-Ho-Ho-Ho, Thanks Art.

Back to Testing, Now where was I testing ?

Thanks, Chip  :D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 26, 2008, 05:06:01 AM
Hi Art

With this toolsettings a get a tooltip failure at the moment when the toolpath is almost made.

Greetings:
Willem


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 26, 2008, 06:41:25 AM
Willem
Just curious, if you increase the inscribed circle to .101, .11 will it generate the toolpaths.
Post the dxf file ( or ref the post# where it was posted), this allows others to do a run the same file and provides for comparison. I have found that the slower pc's here can take a long time to generate a toolpath or maybe bomb on
the file. 
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 26, 2008, 06:47:47 AM
Hi Willem,
  Also looks like your Z is incrementing in the wrong direction. Wrong quadrant possibly ?
And, are you using the latest release ?  I ask because your pointers are not colored as the latest release fixed this on mine.
Like Rich said, your dxf would help.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 26, 2008, 07:48:15 AM
Rich

If i increase to 0.15 it will generate a toolpath (very nice) but see that the button change in a triangle??????
If i make the tool smaller (0.01) it also make a nice toolpath but take a long time to create
My pc is a dualcore 1.9ghz 1gb memory laptop so that should be sufficient.

RC

Not exactly sure what you mean with the word quadrant but Chip already did explain that i have to draw on the - side of the origin so i get the Z in the - direction.
When i use the file Chip make for me (see second file) i get the same result
I used the latest release but the previous release did the same.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 26, 2008, 07:57:27 AM
Hi RC

A little addition.
As soon as i select a tool the colors of the pointers disappear.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 26, 2008, 08:19:55 AM
Willem,
Chips explanation is what I meant about the quadrant.
I spoke too soon about the colors. I only keep the colors after tool selection if the accel. is at notch 2 or lower.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 26, 2008, 08:34:14 AM
WJ

Never saw a tool like that before.

If your depth per pass is really small, it will take quite a while to generate the paths.

RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 26, 2008, 08:40:26 AM
Willem is not alone.
Latest version. There are still tool graphics issues.

RC,
Nothing has fixed pointer color issue here. See attached. But I have to take a hard look at what services i have turned
off . Maybe it all depends on how you want look at it! ;)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 26, 2008, 08:40:58 AM
Hi RC

The last tool (0.01) is fiction (only for testing) on mi age i would not even see the tool (lol).

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 26, 2008, 08:48:25 AM
Have fun guys, I am off on a two day pilgrimage.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 26, 2008, 09:00:42 AM
Willem,
  I understand the testing with the small values. I use the GROOVE tool instead of the BUTTON. (Even harder to see and my eyes are bad, LOL)
I cannot get mine to display the TRIANGLE with the BUTTON setting like you and Rich are getting...no matter what I try.
Are your Balusters pieces that you actually cut ?
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 26, 2008, 10:21:23 AM
Hi RC

Actual cutting is not yet possible for me (retrofitting my lathe).
But of course i follow the development of Lazyturn so i can use it when i am ready.
Most of the shapes i see until now are not to be cut with one tool (see for example the shape in #497 (on the right will be a space that Will not cut with the diamant)) that is why i request to use more toolshapes in one project.
A tool with a widht of 0.5 mm Is not for the real world to use ( or you have to make very small parts)
I understand that it will not be easy but never ask is never done.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 26, 2008, 11:34:24 AM
Thank you Willem.
   I hope you get your lathe ready soon. Looks like we will soon be actually cutting the profile !
I see too that many parts will need multiple tools.
First things first.....keep up the good work.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 26, 2008, 04:21:30 PM
Rich,
  I sort of figured you, like me, were on the "Mature" side, judging by your vast wealth of knowledge, but I didn't realize that you were one of the PILGRIMS !  :D
RC  ;D



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 26, 2008, 04:26:49 PM
OK...seriously though.
Could some of the differences we are experiencing be attributed to running XP with Service Pack 2 as opposed to 3 ?
Just curious. I do not recall seeing any mention of it earlier.
Mine is XP SP3.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 26, 2008, 07:39:02 PM
Hi guys

Might be a service pack thing but I use sp3 myself

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 26, 2008, 08:19:49 PM
Hi Guy's
Hope everyone had a great Christmas, Chip here is the file.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 26, 2008, 11:01:40 PM
Hi, All

Using SP2 hear, Seems fine.

Dennis, Hears a cut file for your dxf,

Chip 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 27, 2008, 04:27:23 PM
Hi Chip
Downloaded the file thanks. I first tried to use LT and do it myself gotta learn right well it turned the profile, first before i go on let me say thanks Art for all your work on this project, now back to what i was saying the file cut but it left 4.20 MM on the profile the finished Dia is 10 MM is there a way to select how much i wish to leave on the stock?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 27, 2008, 05:55:33 PM
Hi Art
I was chatting with Chip and this may be a clue as to what is going on in LT the stock is called out at 15.1910 and the finish is 13.150 but when the code is processed in mach in the first lines of  of code there is an X move of 8.5 MM in Radii this makes the stock now at 19 MM so the program is picking up an additional 4.2 or so MM with everything at zero why is this happening ?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 27, 2008, 06:13:50 PM
How much you leave on the stock will depend on the clearance setting.. and the depth per pass. The amount left will typically be less than one pass depth and at a minimum the clearance setting..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 27, 2008, 06:59:30 PM
RC,
 Interestingly, woke up this morning, looked into the mirror,  and I'm now a caveman. Lazyturn.....even a CAVEMAN can use it! :D

Not sure if it's a XP sp 2 or 3 issue as four computers here and they all do something a little different. When I get a chance, will try three more computers when i get over a friends. Also don't over set your refresh rate if your fooling around with the display settings as the screen may be blank when you boot up and it's a PITA to fix. I am quessing that it's an individual's computer. As long as none of the input fields go away it's tolerable. Sooner or later i'll find, tie-up, torture, .......and ever so slowly modify the little Krelin.  ;)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 27, 2008, 10:05:22 PM
Hi, Art, Dennis

It looks as if it's not liking the 0.5 value.
Hears a test dxf and some pic's and a tap file.

Chip

Edit: .49 drop's a pass left side at Arrow, .48 pick's it back up, Both sides of the part are the same dia. "10" unit's from X zero. ?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 27, 2008, 10:57:35 PM
Hi Dennis

Try this one with a .48 per pass value rough and LCam Turn final pass.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 28, 2008, 12:40:15 PM
Hi Art
LT seams to have an issue with the cut per pass if i cut .5 MM it leaves 4.20 of stock on the profile but if you set the cut per pass less then that LT will leave less stock is it something i am doing wrong?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 28, 2008, 04:06:21 PM
Dennis
Can you show me a screenshot of the rough request and the result?

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 28, 2008, 07:43:38 PM
Hi, Art

I've been working with Dennis about these issue's and Posted a dxf that isn't so long to show it clearer, 4 post's up, sorry to butt in.

In the Pic's: I used 5 for pullout to get it out of the way, 0 stock clerance to highlite the issue.

Pic 1, original stock size used, rough 0.5, should have very little blue showing.

Pic 2, original stock size used, rough 0.49, should have very little blue showing on the larger dia..

Pic 3, original stock size used, rough 0.48, almost no blue showing.

Pic 4, stock size inc. to 15 or larger, rough 0.5, drops rough pass at Arrow.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 28, 2008, 08:47:48 PM
Hi Guys:

 Still dont think I see the issue.. All 3 photo's seem to be correct for the depths commanded.

  The lines outside the darker blue of the stock are of course the pullouts.. and how close the other lines get to the stock is a function of if it woudl hit going in another "depth" distance..

 Since this is roughing, it will not make a closer pass, it simply goes in at .49 or .5 or whatever.. if .5 takes it so far it hits the profile, then that pass wont be made at that position..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 28, 2008, 09:36:35 PM
Hi, Art

There are more issues hear, This part is dead on 10 unit's  even all over, In these 2 Pic's there seem to be Issues.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 28, 2008, 11:45:09 PM
Chip,
I get the same results as you. I have back plotted a number of the files, rechecked them in CAD and found things to be darn close when you wanted a very small clearance. Don't have time tonight but maybe tomorrow i can try fooling with it.   

The measuring capability using the crosshair is much improved over the pointer.
RICH


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 29, 2008, 12:00:21 AM
Hi, Rich

Just using the values for testing, Don't wast time on it I'm sure Art can see them now with the bigger drawing layout and latest pic's.  ;D

Thanks, Chip  :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 29, 2008, 12:26:14 AM
Hi Guys:

  First pic was correct, just looks funny due to large pullout.. Second pic is wrong, its missing the other side.. Ill look into why. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 29, 2008, 01:42:59 AM
Hi, Art

Not wanting to argue, But the 0.5 rough looks different to me and the G-code say's it is missing a Left rough pass also.  ???

Even this Cave-Man can See It, Chip  ;D

Edit: Can't find the Pulling my hair out Happy Face.

DXF added bel;ow
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 29, 2008, 08:55:03 AM
Hi Chip:

  Sorry, I was talking about the lines generated only, the posting is still just rough code I threw together to test code output, it isnt necessarily right, the photo of the calculated lines is correct by the look of it to me though. While one phot was missing the left side, the other looks fine. The posted Gcode may be rigth or wrong, its just test code and isnt very well done at this point. Im still just focusing on the actual job generated as the displayed lines, the code is a separate issue..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 29, 2008, 12:43:45 PM
Hi Guys:

 The reason the left side was missing was that the intersection calculator saw a scan line hit exactly on the line of the profile.
This means the lines dont so much intersect as overlap. This version fixes that problem in that instance. It also takes care of the
memory leak I belive. Gone here anyway. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 29, 2008, 12:57:09 PM
Hi Art
What i fund in the LT code and i hope i can explain this well enough the billet is 15.91 MM and LT is set for this Dia next the profile is 10 MM at the smallest dia and LT shows this with the arrows when the cursor is over them and with a .5 MM per pass cut the code is generated with a + 4.5 MM to the actual billet size and therefore when the profile is cut it leaves this excess on the turned part so when the machine first starts it cuts air before ever hitting the billet i understand that it is a roughing code but if i tell LT to leave 0 on the part why is it leaving 4.5 MM i would think it would leave .5 MM or even 1MM but 4.5 MM that doesn't seam correct.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 29, 2008, 12:58:03 PM
Hi Art

Memory leak gone here , still get a tooltip failure with a tool 0.1

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Bengt on December 29, 2008, 01:05:04 PM
Is this Vista realted ??? (new box and never tried LazyTurn on this one)

sgCore.dll not found

Cheers
Bengt
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on December 29, 2008, 01:14:30 PM
Hi bengt

First download Lazycam, put it in the Mach3 folder then download Lazycam update, put it the Mach3 folder then download Lazyturn, put it in the Mach3 folder then it should work.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Bengt on December 29, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
Hi Willem,

Oops, I´ve missed the update. Now LT is up and running, THANKS!

Happy endings and a Prosperous New Year Cutting Chips
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 29, 2008, 02:56:00 PM
Hi Dennis:

>>What i fund in the LT code and i hope i can explain this well enough the billet is 15.91 MM and LT is set for this Dia next the profile is 10 MM at the smallest dia and LT shows this with the arrows when the cursor is over them and with a .5 MM per pass cut the code is generated with a + 4.5 MM to the actual billet size and therefore when the profile is cut it leaves this excess on the turned part so when the machine first starts it cuts air before ever hitting the billet i understand that it is a roughing code but if i tell LT to leave 0 on the part why is it leaving 4.5 MM i would think it would leave .5 MM or even 1MM but 4.5 MM that doesn't seam correct.

   Can you show me the dxf, and a screenshot of the toolpath as well as the Gcode produced. I'll get you an answer as to why its happening. Its likely some bug in my Gocde output more than the profile generation, perhaps my radisu/diamter not working or soemthing..

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 29, 2008, 05:00:28 PM
Hi, Art

Memory leak gone hear also, Thank You for the last Little Bug fixes.

I still have 2 or 3 Little Bug's, That need attending to, I think they will resolve the issues that Dennis is having also at this time, pic's below:

Pic, 1. The Whole Picture and Rough Profile shown are 100 % Correct now, The PST G-code is Good also, In my opinion, Anyway.

Pic, 2. Here's where the problems come in, If you use any value for the Depth Per Pass other than "0.5", The Whole Profile Rough Passes are moved Off the Part Profile by 0.5000 more than it should be even though the Stock Clerance is set to "0".

If Rough Value of 1.0 is set, Right Face cut finishes 0.5000 away from X0.0 Centerline. PST G-code file verifys this, Entire Part Radius is 0.5000 to Big.

If Rough Value of 0.55 is set, Right Face cut finishes 0.5000 away from X0.0 Centerline. PST G-code file verifys this, Entire Part Radius is 0.4500 to Big.

If Rough Value of 0.4 is set, Right Face cut finishes 0.3000 away from X0.0 Centerline. PST G-code file verifys this, Entire Part Radius 1 center major dir is 0.3000 to Big.
Radius 2 small minor dir is 0.1000 to Big.

Got to go to airport, Broken Airplane, darn !!!! hear are 2 pic and dxf, I used ----- finish editing in awhile.

Edit: I'm back, Still adding info hear, Art, The screen view and PST show the Error's, I think the Rough Profile Settings windo Values are being used Improperly somewhere.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 29, 2008, 07:00:16 PM
Chip:

 You mean the posted GCode is offset?
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 29, 2008, 07:09:02 PM
Hi Art
I don't have a means of a screen shot but here is the G-code generated by LT and the original DXF file thanks for looking at it.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 29, 2008, 08:56:48 PM
Hi All,
I just D/L'd the zip,and now cannot get anything to load. I should say I got one to load,and then get a file is - in and cannot load,moved it around,and still cannot get it to load. Tried different dxf's and all that I have done,still cannot load. Can someone take a look at the dxf,and see what I am doing wrong AGAIN. or ?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 29, 2008, 09:17:08 PM
aclausing
please post the dxf file or if you did what reply was it
Rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 29, 2008, 09:25:32 PM
Hi, Art

Yes, the posted g-code is off, the view seems correct now, but the rough profile settings are being applied funny in the variables used, I'm Thinking, I now that's a scary thought "Me Thinking",  HU.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 29, 2008, 11:03:20 PM
ART,
Using the DEC 29 version.
The graphics look right along with the paths but posted gcode has changed.
See attachments. I read in your other post that the actual gcode wasn't of to much concern
to you but this seems like we are going backwards. Maybe you can shed some light.

Tried LT on three more computers: "" using DEC 25-4 version ""
FPC#1- 3 GHZ / 1G RAM - CUSTOM- XP PRO SP2 -----------NO PROBLEMS
FPC#2- 900 MHZ / 256 RAM - LAPTOP- XP PRO SP2 -------WON'T RUN ANY VERSION AFTER DEC 17
"" ie; it will not create a graphic profile ""
FPC#3- 3.6 GHZ / 1.5G RAM - EMACHINE -XP PRO SP2 ----X POINTER COLORS ARE LOST

RICH
MODIFICATIOINS IN "".......""
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 29, 2008, 11:11:09 PM
Hi:

>>Hi All,
I just D/L'd the zip,and now cannot get anything to load. I should say I got one to load,and then get a file is - in and cannot load,moved it around,and still cannot get it to load. Tried different dxf's and all that I have done,still cannot load

  The profile you show is bad, a profile doesnt have top and bottom, only the top.. see the examples posted in the threads..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 29, 2008, 11:16:09 PM
Rich:

  Loaded tap file, ,doesnt look bad to me.. what do you find wrong with it?


>>Tried LT on three more computers:
>>FPC#1- 3 GHZ / 1G RAM - CUSTOM- XP PRO SP2 -----------NO PROBLEMS

  Good..

>>FPC#2- 900 MHZ / 256 RAM - LAPTOP- XP PRO SP2 -------WON'T RUN ANY VERSION AFTER DEC 17

 Dunno why.. When does it error out, last version seemed to fix up the openGL failures on other machines..

>>FPC#3- 3.6 GHZ / 1.5G RAM - EMACHINE -XP PRO SP2 ----X POINTER COLORS ARE LOST

 Thats a weird one.. video hardware accel maybe? Seems an openGL implementation issue, cant repeat it here at all, and cant think of
how to check it any. I basically tell it a colour, and it shoudl be correct.. all kinda Windows magic from there..

Art


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 29, 2008, 11:28:09 PM
Art,
As far as the different PC testing, i don't have the fogiest on the windows end why and i have looked,
but will continue trying other pc's. The point of doing this is it identify if some pc's won't work with LazyTurn. And i do think it's a windows thing but i will darned if i can find it. Accel settinig didn't change anything on those pc's. Plenty of neighbors  with pc's.

As far as the rough cuts, it's very ragged as compared to code posted by prior versioins and run in Mach before. That's what is shown in the screen capture.
Rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 30, 2008, 12:08:35 AM
Hi, Aclausing

I think the biggest problem your having with your dxf is that you need to draw it in a upper 1/2 a profile view, In the upper left quadrant area of your cad view,  Above Y0 line and to the left side of X0 Line.

Hope this Helps, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 30, 2008, 12:37:38 AM
Hi, Rich

The ragged view you last bottom post is just a "view" display issue in Mach3, You probably have the F speed set very high or in over-ride.

I see this quite often, It mostly shows up mid way in a lot of single axis g-code moves and isn't in the actual step or dir Output's.

Slow the F speeds down with Over-Ride and let me now.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Simso on December 30, 2008, 12:44:41 AM
Hi Art, Ive been watching this topic with interest for a while now. I have a home made cnc lathe which Ive never been able to fully use becuase of lack of g-code producing programs, ive simply been writing mu own g-code. Closest and best program  Ive seen is visual turn by mecsoft but at 1250usd Ive held of.

My question is as I have just downloaded your latest version, is can you draw up dxf's in an external program and import them in, Ive tried and there not working for me. If you can are there options you must include into the file. No disrespect as I know youve done a lot of work and pretty impressive software mach3 but lazycam just doesnt do it for me """confusing as""""

Any chance of posting up a basic tutorial for us hanger ons to get the most out of the lazyturn program

Thanks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 30, 2008, 12:57:13 AM
Hi, Simso

Post one of your dxf's will look at it, Read through some of the post's and download some of the dxf's hear and load them in your cad program's.

If you post one of your dxf we can look at it to see the ACAD ver # ver 12,14, acad1009, acad1014 in the top of the dxt file as viewed with a txt editor like "note "pad usually work fine.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 09:14:41 AM
Rich:


  As Chip says, the ragged green line is only indicative of too fast a feedrate on a small object, Mach3 then cant keep up the display smoothly.
Thats not an issue with LTurn really..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 30, 2008, 09:24:08 AM
Chip,
Thanks for your Reply,I'm not Ignoring you, just have other things to do. Now back to the dxf. I set said,to what you suggested,and now it cuts off the nose (see dxf) and CAD inclosed. How close can I get to have the nose be completed,and what do I have to do. Move the crosshairs to a different location,or go with a different grid pattern. Should I lower the grid to read 0.001,or 0.000, and if I can,( I tried this before,and had neg. - values in LT todo the ouput) How else can this be done. Working with,and changing settings till it works,or changing my CAD program to something else. Your thoughts Please! I'll be back later..... Thanks,  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 30, 2008, 09:54:44 AM
Simso,
Brouse thru this topic and you will find a quick and dirty Lazyturn tutorial.
It covers basics but be aware that developement is progressing daily such that what was written
then may have changed some.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,9877.0.html

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 10:22:46 AM
Simso:

  You have to be carefull to not go below zero is all. Send me the one that fails if you feel it IS zero at the tip. Ill see whats up.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 10:22:48 AM
HI ART, & All,
Here is a booger.

Where the illustrated arc terminates to a line perpendicular to the centerline, the toolpath will crash the trailing edge of the chosen tool. And the holder leaves the the insert behind.

By simply adding a short "X" (Z) line parallel to the centerline BEFORE the perpendicular line, all is good.

RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 10:34:47 AM
Also, may be worth noting that the perpendicular line is NOT tangent to the arc.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 11:26:54 AM
Hi:

  This one is the result of an unwritten rule ( till now. LOL )

Rule: Any rough profile must be possibel with the first pass being a full length cut. Stock must be set large enough in
dimater to allow this. To see what I mean, use the Diags checkbox in the rough generator to see the diagnostic lines,
note how the first pass is broken. Increase the diamter enough that the first pass is a solid line.

 This has to do with soem complexities in the reentrant iterative algorithm I wrote for the path calulations. I may revisit at
some point, but at the moment, to ensure the "tree" is correct, the first node ( line) must be a complete line.

 ( For the mathmatically inclined that probably explains a bit about how Im doing this.. )   :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 12:07:32 PM
Thanks ART, but....I don't get it. (mathematically challenged)
The stock IS .75" bigger than the part.
There are 5 uninterrupted passes to begin with.
Diags. shown NO breaks in the first 5 passes.
Sorry if I'm missing something THAT obvious.
RC

EDIT: Posted code shows 5 clear passes...but without that short horizontal line, the trailing edge of the tool crashes in the deep groove.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 12:23:11 PM
Rich:

  Sorry, that wasnt the bug I was talking about. When I loaded it, my depth per pass was larger, and then the issue I was talking about happens, the left side goes away entirely.
Im still looking into your issue..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 12:27:33 PM
Rich:

  Sorry, what size tool is that, I cannot repeat it.. and depth/pass and clearance?

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 12:33:36 PM
 :)
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 01:02:55 PM
ART,
  I noticed that the width/depth relationship of the deep groove has an effect on the path. So I made it PLENTY wide in these 2 DXF's. They are identical except for the small FLAT.

In the following pic., it looks like the diamond tool path is good UNTIL it reaches a depth = to half the length of the diamond, then the depth is fed straight in. This would crash the trailing edge.
It looks proportional to the insert profile. ? ?
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 02:02:18 PM
RC:

  in 12.47.gif, thats what Id expect to see. The profile follows the tool inward, so there shoudlnt be any trailing edge hit in that case. The photo looks good to me?

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 02:03:50 PM
RC:

 Ohh, I see what you mean.. thats on purpose though, its assumed the tool can cut on either edge of a tool.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 02:27:08 PM
On PURPOSE ?
If it's right...it's right I guess.
Every increment inward from the point illstrated onward would be cutting with the entire edge of the insert.
I would think the Z starts would continue to be staggered along the same angle as the first several cuts. (sketch)
You surley could not use the same feeds and speeds plunging straight in like that......could you ?
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 02:53:52 PM
This is the the way I assumed it should be.
RC :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 02:55:32 PM
RC:

 Depends on the insert and the feeds. In the end that rear flank will be taken into account, its just at the moment the development hasnt got there yet. It requires a dual gouge sensing to sense
not only a gouge to the profile ( currently working) but a gouge to the leftover material. ( Not yet implemented.). So when I say "On purpose, its better put " As yet."  :)


Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 03:12:43 PM
OK..I understand. More to implement. Could get REAL rough on some holders too, the way it is.
This little fish will get fried later. :)

About the other problem...curve to a sharp point (pic).
Did you get yours to break like here ?
It actuall posted code OK but there was NOclearance for the flank at all.

Profile pass soon ?

Thanks ,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 30, 2008, 04:08:00 PM
Hi, RC

Are you using BobCad to generate that Profile in the post 2nd post back ?, If so what version.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 04:16:32 PM
Hi Chip,
   I had a friend at a neighboring engineering firm spit that out for me with DelCam.
My trial ran out with Vector but they do it the same way as Del.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 05:14:02 PM
Hi:

>>About the other problem...curve to a sharp point (pic).
Did you get yours to break like here ?
It actuall posted code OK but there was NOclearance for the flank at all.


  No, for some reason mine is fine using those values, I get the expected tool collision avoidance..
 
  I have been making changes in mine though,so just to be sure, here is the development version Im using ...


Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 05:15:19 PM
hmm, that may have messed up.. here it is again..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 30, 2008, 05:25:19 PM
Hi All,
This is pretaining to POST#617,and was able to play a little bit more. Since I use this CAD for other then Lathe codes at the moment,this is all I can play with to see if I can make something easy for me to use for LT. I played with the line,and grid settings,and found that if I keep a setting of 0.050 in the grid,and use a 0.010 line,that seems to be the most comfortable way to get all the dxf's to work, now for a reason beyond my dumbfoundness, good word aye, I have built 2 screens to keep mill and lathe from compeating with each other. Hopefully this will keep me out of trouble, just to remember which one to use for what!... Still this is learn by mistakes, which is getting time consuming, non the least. Otherwise, Let The Chips Fly.   Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 05:48:10 PM
Yes..YES !  That's MUCH better.
But....I got my hand slapped. :D

Thanks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 30, 2008, 05:51:49 PM
That screenshot is too funny -  :D

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 30, 2008, 07:11:13 PM
Hi, Art

I was focusing a little to much on final pass profiles and the transition to that point with my question.

ooooooooo---ooooooo--ooo, A new button, Darn, Art it's not April.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 30, 2008, 10:34:04 PM
ART,
Using DEC 30-2 version.
The only difference between the first two attachments are stock clear and depth per pass and one provides
full profile while the other does not. Correct me but i thought that the DEC 30-2 version did away with that?
Just a little confused.

The third pic is from different software and it follows your posted rule but if stock is increased it also does the same as the one posted by RC. Like you said, it's in the works but thought i would post it anyway.

Thanks for the updates and look forward to seeing output from the finish pass profile screen.

BTW, I assume that where ever the rough finished LT will automatically generate a rapid to the start of the finish
profile.....or ......will there be a choice / input screen / to go to  the next move.
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 30, 2008, 11:02:47 PM
Hi Rich,
The diag. shows how much bigger the stock needs to be for the first pass to be unbroken.
Pic 1 is .1 from the profile, 2 is .oo1 
The stock needs to be pretty big.
But if that point is terminated with a short horizontal line...all is well regardless of how much is left for the finish pass.Thanks. Please excuse for butting in.
RC

EDIT: Horizontal lines do REDUCE the outward projection of the clearance but only slightly.
Sharp pointy profiles with large finish clearances get big quick.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 30, 2008, 11:54:37 PM
Hi Guys:

 Unfortunatley, its a "feature" of the library I use to offset the contour, it doesnt have rounding of sharp tangentl breaks, so in a very sharp tangent, as you can see if you use the diagnostics output, the point gets very far away from the original profile. Such is math. I will look for a solution internally when I get a bit further, till then increasing stock is the only way. In the end I just need to modify the algorithm some to compensate for it..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Simso on December 31, 2008, 12:20:43 AM
Okay thanks for the info, the problem Im having is I keep getting open gl statements and turning profile not found

My dxf creation program is autocad 2009
If I open the roller test master dxf as shown here in the forum within lazyturn, works perfect, but if I open it with autocad and resave as a new name, no line alterations etc it comes back when I run lazyturn no appropriate turning profile was found
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 31, 2008, 12:51:54 AM
Hi, Simso

Post your dxf that you saved in your acad 2009, Also check if there are any other dxf output options available for a ver. 12 or 14 dxf file's.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Simso on December 31, 2008, 01:36:51 AM
Thanks chip, I just saved your dxf file in all 5 different dxf versions from autocad. Closed all programs of and then tested each one to find out what each problem was. Your not going to believe it every file worked perfectly. I found that if I leave autocad open even after saving the files and exiting the file, lazy turn comes back open gl. If I shut down autocad completley lazyturn opens the file perfectly. Obviously autocad 2009 still holds the file slightly open in its memory.

Going to do up a file now and then go out and run it on the lathe and see how it comes up.

Very impressed.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 31, 2008, 01:54:42 AM
Hi, Simso

Most of the time you can open the same file in several programs and only run into trouble with trying to save a file with changes made to it, If others are open.

If it's not one thing it's another, Glad you got it going.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Simso on December 31, 2008, 07:05:47 AM
Thanks for the help guys, it works an absolute treat exporting out of autocad now. Did a test run on the lathe and very very happy. Incredibly simplistic

However how long are we looking before you guys release a commercial version with a finishing toolpath included.

Thanks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 31, 2008, 09:13:43 AM
>>However how long are we looking before you guys release a commercial version with a finishing toolpath included.

  It coudl be awhile. ( A LONG while.).

  I do intend to do a finish profile next, so at that point, if you take great care, you could cut jobs. It may not be too long before it at least outstrips lazycams ability, it already does in some respects. But as a hobby project I set no timelines, I suspect it will be buildiong over time for a long time, but I do wish to get it cutting profiles at least in the near term. The intermediate step between rough and finish is actually the key to completion, its a very hard step to do, but will add quite a bit of capability in terms of keeping it easy and lazy, which is a primary concern for me.

  :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 08:16:23 PM
Here's a few of some things gone bad,I tried to post before,and it did'nt work,so here is another shot at it Thanks   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 08:34:17 PM
Hi Hank,
  That does look a bit weird.
I'll bet there is something awry in the DXF.
Can you post the DXF ?
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 08:36:59 PM
Happy New Year!
Here is what I tried to post before. Pullout 0.050,Stock Clear0.050,and depth of cut0.010. It cuts off the round edges of the part,Don't know if this is my problem or? Have to offset a vertical line in the dwg. for it will not produce,and says line intersept. I tried all I can do to get this to work for me,unless there is something I am missing,Which is usually the case.  Thanks,    Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 08:42:05 PM
Hank,
Happy new year ti you too !

You probably have intersecting/overlapping lines or entities in your DXF, can you post it?
Might be able to see where they are and point them out to you.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 08:44:40 PM
RC
I tried to, and the web keeps saying i double posted already, Something strange going on here. Give it acouple of minutes ...  Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 08:46:40 PM
Give it a new name and start a new reply.
Can be a PITA !
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 08:49:14 PM
Hey!
Ok, lets see if this works...  Thanks,  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 08:52:06 PM
OK...There are definetly some probiems with it.
You need to send the actual DXF file from your CAD...not a JPG picture or capture.
The DXF will have all of the dwg. info so we can open it up and look at it.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 08:56:49 PM
Again?
What am I suposed to look,or do,for what? I'm not a PC guy,just an old manual  machinist going cnc. Explain what I should be looking for.  Thanks,  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 09:01:10 PM
I'm new at this too, so please bear with me.
When make a drawing with your CAD program you typically SAVE it somewhere as a .DXF file.
Maybe "Pawn.DXF" or similar.
Now when you reply, attach that file.
What cad are you using ?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 09:02:19 PM
RC
Is this what you want.. Hopefully?    Thanks, Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 09:14:26 PM
RC
I just thought of something,When I go to Touch-up the DWG I wonder if I should reset the layer value before posting the dxf again to LT. Maybe thats what is giving me troubles....  Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 31, 2008, 09:18:10 PM
Hi Hank

Got your file to load looking at it now, Ill post the proper format so RC can look at it. and explane the .dxf stuff in a bit.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 09:38:18 PM
Hi Hank,
   Thats enough to work with for now. There are several issues...see pics
I'll be back...or Chip might chime in and save us.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 09:46:11 PM
Well that by all means is not right, Where did you find them,such as where in the dwg are they at,so I can see what is happening,and try to fix on my end, if there are more then many other issues,I'd like to contact apperson and tell him about his program,and what HE needs to fix,Afterall I did Pay for the software CAD STD PRO,and if it does'nt do the job, lets get it fixed; would'nt you agree.  Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on December 31, 2008, 10:11:06 PM
Hi Hank

Hear are some of the bad spot's marked and a dxf with them in it.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 31, 2008, 10:23:27 PM
Chip,
Thanks for the heads up,thoughs are all the intersecting lines that are drawn by arc cord,and each has been curved by me by means of using the mouse to create the arc. HUH..I'll see if I can find a better way of doing the dwg's,and mybe stop all the headaches I'm having,I'm still going to contact apperson about his program though,and thanks so much. Do you know of anything i can do to try to correct this as I don't know where to begin. Hey; Lets see if Art can make a dxf'er for LT and the rest of the Mach Series, Mach will only read, Mach's dxf'er. HA! COLD DAY in !!    Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 10:53:52 PM
Hank,
  Do you use the SNAPS when drawing ?
That really helps keep the ends together.
Even after cleaning you file up, it still has problems in LT.
Looks like the connection tolerances are tight in LT.
Neat CAD you have there....inexpensive too.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 11:13:50 PM
Hey Hank,
  The most of the problem was at the base of the piece.
After putting the extension for the chuck or collet, it posts good.
Try this DXF.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on December 31, 2008, 11:54:34 PM
Well ..... Hank, I want to thank you.
You helped me to discover another "RULE". (don't recall seeing it earlier)

The termination of the profile at the LEFT (Z-) end of the drawing MUST extend, in the -z direction, BEYOND any other entity in the drawing.
If the profile ends with a downward arc, the end of the line must NOT go beyond a line tangent to that arc, and perpendicular to the center line of the part.

This end is where it looks like ART draws a line perpendicular to the centerline out to define the Stock OD.....which creates the intersection fault.

I feel better now...your CAD is probably OK.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 01, 2009, 12:01:22 AM
Hi, Hank & RC

Got a little side tracked hear, Good to see it's working now.

I think most of the load issues in LT are fixed, There may be a few remaining though, Time will tell.

I now the connection tolerances are tight, But need to be that way for testing and developmental reason's, I'm Sure.

Hopefully they can be loosened up in the future.

Happy NEW YEAR to Everyone, Chip

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 01, 2009, 07:09:45 AM
Hi guys

Happy newyear to all.

Art
That's a good one, the new button.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 01, 2009, 09:06:39 AM
Hi All,
There will always be two problems associated with the use of LazyTurn ( or any CNC software ).
What you created for the import and the practical turning of a part. It's a matter of degree and
books have been written on each.

Here is an updated list of CAD related item's originaly posted back some time ago.
Sometime in the future i'll translate the Greek wording to plain language and include others.
Maybe a generic CAD check list would be more appropriate. Till then here it is for what it's worth.
RICH
 
 
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 01, 2009, 09:12:41 AM
I have a really quick and stupid question.

Didn't LT used to "animate" or simulate the cutting toolpath in earlier versions?

Was that just discontinued for testing and will it be available in the final version or am I thinking of something else that had the animation?

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 01, 2009, 09:34:03 AM
Dave,
I think your thinking something alse. Currently,if you want to animate you post and open in MACH Turn.
Don't know what Art is planning, but there should be some kind of simulation.
In a sense, simulation is done via the diagnostic ouput, it's fast, and as LT progresses maybe a change in path color or  style could show the dfference between say the rough / rough finish / finish.

RICH
 
PS: I use MACH V3.041( just for simulation not no more)  since there are screen display problems in the current MACH TURN.
    Turners need to sqeek louder to Brian in the near future. Let's form a gang. ;D
    Gang option not necessary, egg on my face,  Bozzo here forgot to try the latest veresion!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 01, 2009, 10:21:12 AM
Hi:

  It did used to simulate, but what it simulated was the removal of stock material, thats a function of the intermediate roughing step which I discontinued for now till I get finiish
profiles. That new button wasnt a joke really, its just not yet finished. ( Some of my buttons during development get downrigth nasty LOL, so finish test profiles may come along soon if my theories hold to be true. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 01, 2009, 10:29:17 AM
I's funny, Art, I didn't think I was imagining that one and when I finally found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXRsj313BfQ


I came back and saw your reply  :D

Happy New Year to you, sir-  ;)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 01, 2009, 11:01:25 AM
Hi RICH, HNY !  :)
Here is a suggestion, how bout putting a STICKY topic at the beginning of this board with your Rule Book and basic user manual ?
It would be easily accessed by all and could be modified and updated as we go along. All disclaimers would of course apply, subject to change without notice and all.
 It would also maybe save digging for the info or being directed to it.
68 page topic......I think this is a record !
Just a thought.
Regards,
RC 8)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 01, 2009, 11:04:14 AM
I think that's a fantastic idea RC-

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 01, 2009, 12:19:57 PM
Hi All,
I wish I had better news to tell,but after reading the PDF on what and whatnot to do, I guess I will read until I memorize it by heart,but still have problems. I snapped all lines to a new dwg.and come up with different errors. The file RC gave me works fine,and I trie dto extend the end,BASE and worked like it should,so I created the mate.ROOK and came up with errors. snapped lines,and edited layers,and joined lines,and whatever else I could thimk of,but here are the ones in question,and am going to leave it alone for a while as my head is STARTING to Hurt. LT does have tight tollerences, just not able to get things right now. I'll Play after a While. Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 01, 2009, 12:41:10 PM
Hi, Hank

Post the .DXF file your having problems with, We can't give you much help without It.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on January 01, 2009, 12:54:35 PM
Hi Guy's
Happy New year, well thing's started off with mixed results i had a problem with a file for the mill and emailed it to the support in return they said it was a bug in Mach and that the latest version Brian fixed the graphics bug and all is well so i upgraded to the latest version this did fix the mill issue but now the lathe graphics has gone wacko what is the version everyone is using for the lathe .

Dennis ???
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 01, 2009, 01:11:34 PM
HANK,
Post the dxf. I look at every one posted. I sometimes test one for import and export via five programs and 9 exports for import to LT. Don't ask, sometimes i am goofy!  A quick look by somebody will tell you what's wrong with it.
RICH



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 01, 2009, 01:16:35 PM
 :) Happy First Day Everyone !

Hey Hank, I keep a bottle of aspirin on my desk at all times. :D (and plenty of Budweiser to wash them down with)

Your problem areas are most likely at the ends of the black profile line.
That line should be continuous and it appears there are breaks in it.
Actually....straight lines are solid black, Polylines are solid black and ARCS show up faded...or gray.

  And as Chip and RICH said, the DXF file would really help.

Bye for now,
RC

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 01, 2009, 02:12:22 PM
RC and Dave,
I'll create the sticky topic and put some files there.
Yes this post is getting big. In fact a file of all the posts is "only" about 180 pages long.
I figure if you take away repetition and put it into some perspective you would come away with
maybe 20 pages. I was going to steal the verbage with pride  and put in rough form into a quick and dirty
manual. Format:
-LAZYTURN MANUAL
 ( it will continously evolve) with the following appendix sections
 Append "A"  - LAZYTURN - QUICK AND DIRTY STEP BY STEP
 APPEND "B"  - CAD DRAWINGS AND COMMON MISTAKES
 APPEND "C"  - DXF FILE EXPORTS
 APPEND "D"  - POSTED DXF FILES ( [ FIXED / FILES THAT WORK ] FILE NAME / POSTED REPLY REF NUMBER )
 APPEND "E"  - PRACTICAL TURNING CONSIDERATIONS

Any thoughts on the above?
RICH

 
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 01, 2009, 02:48:48 PM
Fantastic, idea, Rich. I especially like the area for working dxf files that users can try and see if they work with their PC's and hopefully report back.

Have at it, my friend -  ;)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 01, 2009, 03:28:59 PM
Yeah I have to say this is a long thread.. migth have to break it up someday to topics.. Didnt expect this little hobby roject to be so popular..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 01, 2009, 03:38:13 PM
Hi ART,
I've made a hobby of following your hobby.  :)

RICH,
   Looks like a good plan.
Here is an illustration of what we recently saw with Hanks file.

Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 01, 2009, 03:41:23 PM
OH.....And here's one just for ART.   :)

Just funnin'....best wishes for the new year ART.

RC >:D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 01, 2009, 05:53:40 PM
Hey All,
Thanks for your help AGAIN! I just had to sit awhile and think about how I got a Good File to load,and what is keeping me from repeting it to others. I Still don't know,one setting works Good,another Not So. as you can see from the posted crops-. Did the same, but modified acouple areas at a time, and posted to LT to see if i did any Good. I spent All morning ,and thought i had Niped it in the bud,but .... I'm gunna give up on this for awhile, and not abandon it completly, just want to find out WHY one is drwan Good and another like CRAP. Heres the .dxf and don't be in too much of a hurry, when you get old, your legs grow together,eyes can't see like they used to,and hair is, well; need I say More. Asprin is for Kids, Jack is Much Better. SALUTE!. Thanks Guy's  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 01, 2009, 06:01:40 PM
RC,
A work of art, so if you guys make more of them, they'll go into the manual.

Gee's, only 100 more pages to sanitize and that gets me to Dec 17 of last year.
I never realised how long winded ya all were!
RICH




Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 01, 2009, 08:43:57 PM
Hi, Hank

Why do all the Dxf's your posting have a .txt file name extent, Are you renaming them that way, ?, You should be able to post them with the .dxf's without any problem or changes needed.

The last one you posted seems to rough out just fine, It dose have some brakes in the profile though.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 01, 2009, 09:36:58 PM
 :)
Hey Chip, Hank,
   I downloaded the free version of Hanks CAD.
Did a sample dwg and exported it as DXF.

Here is how I did it, pics.

Then saved it where ever you like.

Does it come through OK ?

RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 01, 2009, 10:02:28 PM
Hi, RC

Seems fine hear, No brakes, Did you try any curvs.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 01, 2009, 10:16:02 PM
 :)
Thanks for verifying Chip.
Here is one with arcs.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 01, 2009, 10:34:15 PM
Hi, RC

Looks good also.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 01, 2009, 10:47:50 PM
Thanks Chip.
Here is ONE more...
Drawn with 3-point arcs. Hanks CAD
LT doesnt respect a .5 clearance ! And cuts the crowns off with all settings tried here.
Do you see what's wrong ?
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 01, 2009, 11:50:03 PM
Hi, RC

I didn't do anything to the dxf and it looks fine hear. ?

Same thing hear with .5 Stock Clearance.

There are a few brakes in the dxf file.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 02, 2009, 12:30:55 AM
Hi, Art

I'd say LazyTurn is Hot.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 02, 2009, 09:04:02 AM
Same thing here but my toolpath is different. Probably due to the tool specs?

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 02, 2009, 09:07:37 AM
And here's .100 clearance cutting into the ball end and some of the body:

Dave


EDIT: and some of the body
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 02, 2009, 09:09:58 AM
It seems to clear up at .010 clearance:

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 02, 2009, 09:19:28 AM
Ok, last one, .025 seems to be the last one that cuts into the body of the part (shown below).

.020 seems to look good.

Dave

EDIT: also got another memory leak when closing LT this time as well-
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 09:50:08 AM
Hi Dave,
 Thanks for trying this on yours.
There is definitely something corrupt about this dxf but I cannot for the life of me find it.
It was drawn with Hanks CadStd using 3 pt. arcs.
I can draw similar shapes in AC using the same arcs and it works fine.
Even at 0.0 clearance, it's not right...and the bigger the clearance, the worse it gets.
This is a goofy one.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 02, 2009, 09:54:35 AM
Yep, that dxf is perfect for me-

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 10:19:16 AM
Dave,
  If you don't mind, here is just ONE more ...then I gotta go.
3 simple 3pt arcs. Works perfectly in "other" CAM.  ::)
Works well also if drawn the same way with "other" CAD.  ::)

Please post your results,
Thanks.
RC  8)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 02, 2009, 11:24:36 AM
Hi Guys:

  Some DXF's drawn primarily with arcs do generate goofiness, its not the DXF< its LTurn having trouble figuring out whats inside and whats outside.
Im working on solutions, but till then playing with numbers as youve been doing is the correct way to go, its all incredibly complex to do some of this stuff,
cant belive how bad it truly is at times. LOL..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 11:31:00 AM
Thanks for mentioning that ART.
That last shut-down I got was corrected by clipping this end at the origin.
It's less than .00002 units long !
After clipping it........it works FINE.

Thanks again,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 02, 2009, 11:43:32 AM
Thx.. 

 That does seem a clipping issue rather than a inside/outside one. The rate this program is proceeding is directly due to all the work you guys have done on the dxf analysis, its really helping me. Just a note to say I truly appreciate it. Youve saved me dozens of hours of debugging. Way to Go!

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 11:53:49 AM
HI ART,
 I may have stumbled onto another temp. rule.
If the profile BEGINS with an arc, it needs to be tangential to the end axis...(hope I said that right)

If it's over the origin like the pic., it cuts the tops off of the humps of the profile.

May need to automatically plop a tangent line in .....from the origin up to the profile or something.
Or just be aware of it and draw the profile correctly.  ::)

RC 8)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 02, 2009, 11:58:36 AM
RC
I am hopeful that I made some progress on finding my errors,and have re D/L'd stdcad,and seems to have solved most issues,still an intersecting thing going on and off,but most work well. I'll let you look at the attached and see for yourself. LOOKS GOOD1 I'm not right now worried about the tool,or path. One set at a time.  .DXF is there too.  Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
I agree Hank, that does look much better.
We're on a roll now,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 12:13:43 PM
I need to clarify my last post.
Three dxf's attached.
One is "Tan +" and works perfectly.
Two is "Tan-" and gives a Neg.Y error. (as it should)
Three is "Tan-Shifted"  Shifted to the left to be completely Y Pos.

#3 DOESN'T follows the temp rule mentioned earlier about being "out of tangent" with the origin.

Just be careful beginning the profile with an arc.

I just confused myself.  ::)  :D
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 12:35:36 PM
OK ART, I think I can verify this, hope others can too.
I took the BPIN.DXF from reply #697 which cut the humps off, ( attach #1 below), Trimmed it to the origin, (pics), and it does fine.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 02, 2009, 01:11:22 PM
Dave,
  If you don't mind, here is just ONE more ...then I gotta go.
3 simple 3pt arcs. Works perfectly in "other" CAM.  ::)
Works well also if drawn the same way with "other" CAD.  ::)

Please post your results,
Thanks.
RC  8)


Yes, same as you, RC, see screenshot below:

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 02, 2009, 01:36:40 PM
Quick read of post and thus reactive comment.
Doing something like your showing could be considered a facing operation  .
And facing isn't implemeted yet, remember the man face dxf posted and Art's comment.
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 02, 2009, 01:42:24 PM
Hi, RC & Art, All

That dose seem to fix the drawing for the most part.

But it brings to Light a possible Issue with the Left hand side of the rough profile not respecting the Tool width values and leaving the rough cut short on the left.

Hear are 2 Pic's, What do you think. ?

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 02, 2009, 01:54:00 PM
Hi Guys:


  My personal though is that I may have to respecify tools.. A center tool will be considered to cut on both sides of the tool, a right only on the right side, and a left tool only on its left side.

Soemhow I have to deal with the problems of gouging a tool on its non-cutting side.. does the above sound like a proper solution. This means left pointing tools woudl only cut right to left,
right tools woudl cut only left to right, and center tools woudl default to right to left, but will be considered as cutting on either side of the tip..

Art

( Just thinking..)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 02, 2009, 01:54:59 PM
Art,
You mentioned about creating other topics.
Maybe the time to do that will be after some release date or
manual revision.
I hope to have revision 2 to the manual posted today and that should capture
replies up to DEC 17 and it will be in  some sort of common breakdown relative to
the program. Then the next update may include to current replies.
Back to cut and paste,
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 01:56:10 PM
Re-reactive comments.  ;)
For the illustrated parts to be machined "As Drawn", they would definitely require a "Facing" operation which is not yet implemented.
However, they are intended to illustrate that when drawing a profile with the sole intention of turning the outside profile, you need to be aware that starting arcs need to terminate at the end of the part to get the results that you are expecting. NOT continue inward into the end of the part.
RC 8)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 02, 2009, 02:06:53 PM
RC,keep finding more of them, your doing great.  :)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on January 02, 2009, 02:07:32 PM
I have been watching on the side lines trying to get this little pulley to work.  As the new revisions have come out, it has been getting closer and closer.  Now at least it will display the pulley.  When I try to generate a tool path, I don't get anything like I would expect.  See the screen shot.  Any suggestions?  Also, every time I close LazyTurn I get a memory lead error that says "Non free objects count: 1  Non free memory size: 263 bytes"

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 02:22:27 PM
HI Vince, try these settings.
RC

AND:
You can change the values in the sliders to change the stock size and the extra at the face end.
The LEAK means nothing, don't let it worry you.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 02:50:55 PM
HI ART,
  Personally, I would not limit the cut direction of any given tool.....not yet anyway.
A left hand tool would cut this part OK cutting toward the chuck.

CHIP,
   Would you post the tool info you used in your last post ?
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 02, 2009, 03:11:14 PM
Hi, Vince

The settings RC posted should work for you, Just checked your dxf and don't get the mem leak issue.

Check that you have the latest ver. of LazyTurn installed, Hears a pic of the page you can find it on.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 02, 2009, 03:25:07 PM
Hi, Art, RC & All

Hear it is, It only shows up with larger stock clearance settings

What ever you think Art, Just point it out.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 02, 2009, 03:28:42 PM
RC:

  Unfortunately, its become a design fork.. Take the problem the other day, where the tool doesnt keep on cutting inwards on the right angle, this is due to only sensing gouging on the profile,
not on the stock previously removed. I have tried to think up a finish algorithm, BUT, the math is impossible unless I know whats previously been cut. I cant just follow the profiel because some would
be impossible without sensing the impossible area's of the previous roughing stage.
  So it seems Im stuck with having to do a "material removed" algorithm instead at this point so I can sense when the tool colides with the stock itself on a non-cutting edge. Till now we've been assuming all tools can cut on both sides, a bad assumption to make.

  BUT, I want to keep it lazy as possible. Wether a tool can cut on both faces or not, and how much it can cut on the opposing face is something very few users woudl find easy to define. As it stands, the Left/Right/Center tool tip to holder relationship is not used in reality, it just allows a user to see the tool matching theirs easier. However, if I use that information to make the decision about what parts of the tooltip are a collisiion, and what parts are actually cutting , then perhaps I can more easily write a stock removal process, so as the cuts are performed we're left with a stock chopped down properly. This "left-over" stock profile is what can then be used to make a finish pass, and woudl also allow the proper angle to be done for the non-cutting side of a tool not to gouge. This is similar to the very misunderstood "BackAngle" setting in LazyCam and other programs. its actually a line drawn back from the tip to the non-cutting side to stp gouging of the holder or non-cutting side of a tool into which the profile will not be allowed to gouge. This woudl limit undercutting ( which is why many programs dont allow undercuts.).

  The decision thats made will set a not too easily changed direction in the code. So I have to make the right one. Looking at all the holders available, inserts available, not to mention home-ground tools that can be made, Im thinking this is a very critical decision in terms of the limitations each path will put on subsequent code and how it works. You can actually generate any tool shpe I think as left,right or center tools, so Im thinking the decision as to what direction to cut, as well as what side of a tool doesnt cut, may be easiest as a defined Left cuts Right, Right cuts left and center cuts either side type of rule setting. This means in essense that a Left cutting tool woudl not be allowed to gouge more than the tip radius on the right side of the tip 0 point, This woudl keep the angle proper in the example posted earlier this week. The assumption that a tool can cut on either side is likely to bite us hard in future, probably best to deal with it now.

 So think about it if you understand, ask me more if you dont so we can decide this as a fucntion of what needs to be done and how it will affect future code and limitations. I dotn think we want tool decriptions with pages of paramters little understood and often misused. ( LazyCam syndrome :) ). To me, by forcing direction and gouge detection style to left/right/center selection, it makes it more automatic and probably easier to make up a tool that although it doesnt really look like the tool actually used, it works as expected in terms of the end toolpath. This is a very hard one to explain fully, but its come to the point I realise I cannot do a finish profile, not even a simple one, till I have made code to simluate stock removal, and the cutting edges are now very important

  If anyone doesnt understand this question, I suggest they look carefully, and you all discuss it, if I make the wrong decision it could be a very lagged development as we go backwards to correct it.  We're at the stage things are loading pretty good, though Im sure I can tighted up a few things to make even that better over time, and to move forward further requires the stock removal process to be done. Then a proper finish path can be calculated. ( I think.. LOL ).

 Thx
Art


Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 03:34:56 PM
HI Chip,
 That is the clearance at the shoulder of the stoch that you create when cutting th profile.
The black line represents the remaining stock and the tool will stay clear of it by what ever you set the clearance at.

RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2009, 03:53:14 PM
ART,
  Everything you said makes GOOD sense. By all means, do what is the best as far as you and your coding is concerned.. I can,t even IMAGINE the complexity involved.  I can adapt. Most parts will need multiple tools anyway.

I say, Take the fork YOU prefer. You are the author....make it as EASY on yourself as possible.

Thanks MUCH,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 02, 2009, 04:46:15 PM
Art, from a guy that has not done a lot of lathe work (mostly precision mill and precision form grinding with surface grinders), I don't think I'll be a big help in the way certain tools/tool inserts will be used in their proper application and unfortunately I know nothing about coding.

I will continue to try dxfs and find weird little issues but I'll probably be quiet when getting into this area as I just don't "know" enough about the proper use of certain toolshapes. Sure, I could fake my way through it but I don't want to end up being another "wrench" thrown into the works, if you catch my drift.  ;)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: frogeye on January 02, 2009, 05:13:05 PM
Hi All,

I've just taken the last [EDIT 3!]days to read through this thread - amazing work folks!

Regarding art comments; whether using a hand ground or tipped tool, if it's handed, it's usually designed to primarily cut in one direction.  If I read Arts comments correctly then the issue is not just cutting on the back edge, but how much is being removed - post #630 illustrates.

If 'restricting' a left hand tool to only cut right to left is a way to achieve it, then I don't see this as a problem provided you can run another roughing path with a right hand tool (or whichever tool is needed) to remove the remainder of the bulk.

Sorry if this sounds as clear as mud - I'm just thinking how you'd do the job manually!
Paul
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 02, 2009, 06:44:52 PM
HI Guys:

 Thx, Telling me you dont understand the issue is a valid feedback, it gives me an idea of just how Lazy I have to make it all, the reason there is interest in Turning software isnt just the price of available software is high, its that the software that IS available is pretty complex to use, and requires more understanding than most have of the complexities of turning. If, in the end, LazyTurn is limited to certain types of turning, or allows for a person to get comfortable enough with turning to move upwards to other software, it will have lived up to my initial planning.
   All that having been said, Ill try to make it work for most things, but to me the most important is to try to make it easy.. few button presses and fewer options. Its my holy grail on this project, Im quite willing to tell the "My tool is shaped like an octopus tentacle, how do I turn an inside bore with exclusions?" user to get a copy of the high end stuff, I really just want the causal lathe owner to have some entry level power that may be enough for him/her.

  Of course, being a casual lathe owner myself helps in that, I truly dont know wtf Im doign half the time or more on a lathe, so the work so far reflects what I tend to think I personally want from a DXF->Turn convertor. LOL

Art

--Incompetance is an Art.. I'm mastering that "Art".
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 02, 2009, 07:01:02 PM
Art,
Having said that, We,You, US, still have to change the tool, to reposition on the back cut,in most operations. However the likely cutter,Insert,I would consider,is a triangle,not only can it cut left,right,center,also face, champher, countersink. It sounds Easy,and by No Means, it is going to be a challange. You still have to move the tool. SEE Attached and which one can do all the above. Arrows are tri tools.  Thanks,  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 02, 2009, 09:28:48 PM
Hi, Art & ALL

ART: I agree with you comment's 100%, A branch in the road for sure, I see "3" ways to deal with it at the present time, Still thinking about it more.

1: Take into account for Lt,Rt & Center Cut Both Directions, (Which it pretty much "Could/Would do now") and leave your self a way to actually implement it in the future. (Do a little testing now to give you a "Good feeling" that, You could use the work done to this point, That it will work "OK", If you Find the need for a more diversified Tool Library in the Future. ( Like this one best)

2: Think about this and continue on while gathering more input and adding more experience's to your list, As we transition on to Final Pass code and beyond......... ( OK also)

3: Proceed on, Throwing Caution to the wind & Hope for the Best. (Don't care for this one at All.)

LazyTurn is as lazeeezy as they come and should remain that way, But leave yourself room for the, Notion that your comment that ("--Incompetence is an Art.. I'm mastering that "Art".") Is a State of Mind and is Actually an "ARTFORM" That has Led 10's of thousand's of Us to Master our CNC Hobbies to a Truly Lazy State.


Thanks, Chip

PS: I'll keep post'n-em as I see-em, "Possible Issue" is pretty Weak one. LOL {:-)>
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 03, 2009, 01:55:26 AM
ART,
Understand what you posted.
So first i'll give you a few things to consider.

1.When do you cut Lazyturn off as a freebee along with MACH?
  As is, with a say with a finish cut and some minor items, you will have exceeded
  LazCam Turn in my honest opinion and nobody, I really mean nobody, can or should ever
  complain because it's limited. It's my thought that it would satisfy so manny
  users of a lathe. You can always tweek it to a level of your wishing in the future.
 
2.Do you want to try and make software anticipate how somone will machine something?
   I think this one can take you to a never ending black deep hole and create problems
   when you get into individual machining operations and programing.

TOOLS:
Any tool, no matter what shape can cut on both sides, it's just a matter of degree of cut depth
and how it's ground.
Until now it's been been outside profiling in a comon directional pass. Practicaly you would want to
cut towards the tail and if you can't you may need to section the profile or have an non-standard
tool to do it, and boring and facing have yet to show their quirks.

I like the current tool selection provided.

No programer,rough /finish cut..... don't you have a max and min left by the rough paths -z,x distances
 such that the average would / could provide a reference  profile and the max rough / finish cut could be
 limited  not to exceed some distance of the max / min rough -z,x distances. The finshing then becomes the
difference between the original profile and the end  of that cut reference profile requiring more than one pass
and the tool must be able to do / get into the profile in a single pass.
Hey, left my calculas and spellinig  book in the cassroom.

Not problem with the r-c-l cutting definition you gave.What's easier for you ART.
I quess fall back to any tool would be the ability to create one if that should come to be.

Haven't the foggiest on the programing end, but, if you want to experiment some,
now may be the time to do it. But maybe comment 1. above should apply.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: oh6kft on January 03, 2009, 03:38:59 AM
...  
So it seems Im stuck with having to do a "material removed" algorithm instead at this point so I can sense when the tool colides with the stock itself on a non-cutting edge. Till now we've been assuming all tools can cut on both sides, a bad
...

I'm mainly just thinking aloud;

"Material removed algorithm";

When the each rough pass is finished, in each endpoint of each pass LT seems to rectract the tool by moving just X outwards.

But IF it would instead move the tool by linear movement to the -previous- rough pass endpoint (both in X and Z), then there would be no material between each rough-pass endpoints, would there ? At least tool should have no problems to take left over material with semi-finish or finish-pass.

Then the "material removed algorithm" would then simply be a polygon made of each endpoint (X & Z) of rough-passes ?

"Finish pass";
Finish pass limitations could be partially determined by measuring perpendicular distance between actual DXF-line and above material-removed polygon, taking measurements in each material-removed polygon endpoint.

If perpendicular distance is greater than user has wanted to be left after roughing in both ends of one polygon section (X1,Z1)-( (X2,Z2), then the rough-step has already determined that there is tool limitations involved in this cutting point and no finish pass is possible, so there should be no finish pass calculations between these points and thus maybe saving some computation time.

If the perpendicular distance is same as user wanted, then there is possibility to do finish pass at this polygon segment. After that there could be tracing of DXF-line, perhaps by offsetting it for finish-pass "left-over". Well, certainly this tool limitations check at only polygon endpoints is not suited fine for actual finish-pass cutting, I think the same checks of tool cutting limitations should be done for each (X,Z) point of finishing-path.

And for what it's worth, I'm too voting for simplicity & "lazyness". If the tooling (left/right/center) selected could be used to determine the cutting side of the tool, that would be quite nice for user.

These are just my thoughts, not necessarily useful at all.

With best regards from Finland,

Henry "Henkka" Palonen
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 03, 2009, 11:16:18 AM
Hi Rich

I disagree that a tool have to cut on both sides.
I use toolholders with inserts like attachment and as you can see not all tools will cut on both sides.
It would be nice if you could select a part of the shape, choose a tools and tooldirection for that part.
This is just a suggestion, i have not any knowledge if it can be done.
As you can see i have repainted the toolholder to the one i use at the compony where i work

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 03, 2009, 11:51:12 AM
Hi Guys:

  As you can see from Willems letter many tools would be a problem in terms of computing a gouge free path. Im thinking direction gouge capability is looking better and better. I do like the idea of simply using the roughing end points as the finish path computational points though, makes sense only if the finish tool IS the roughing tool though.. hmm, but if I fake a rough based on finish tool, then use the endpoints of the rough to determine the path of the finish... that sounds liek somethign Ill investigate, dunno if thats what you meant but its a great way to get the data independant of doing an actual path removal process.. that way I only need a tirtiary gouge process based on tool cutting side definition.. Gotta think about about that one.

  As to simply backing off to the previous rough end point on the passing that woudl create collisions in any udercut zone. I like what Ive read though, its given me some idea's.. I think Ill spend some time investigating using just the roughing end points to generate a finish pass.. all endpoints should be legal, and I should be able to convert equi-radial points to arcs.. interesting.. but I think Ill hit some bad arcing issues based on the collision changes not reflecting the true arc of the profile.. but then maybe I can use that to better define the rough stage.. hmm..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 05, 2009, 10:56:35 AM
Hi Guys:

 Well, after a detailed analysis of the finish pass requirments, Ive decided I cannot cheat by using rough pass information to trace endpoints or anything.. seems the only true path to sucess is to
do it properly by computing whats actually cut on each pass so we have a stock removed database.

  This will take me awhile, I have to divide each tool down the center so I can subtract it from the slid at start and end of path stretched across the linear path.That will give me a proper
profile of whats removed, and what isnt. From there I can do simulations and calculate a proper rough/finish and finish pass. So Ill start that now and see how it goes. Sounds tough, but it may
turn out to be easier than I think. LazyTurn is actually working each step much like a manual usage of the lathe, so its best I think to continue down that path and let it do each step properly, the finish
will then be better and more accurate. Back to you when I have a new version that displays material removed. Ill work on the assumtion that each tool can cut on both sides and will leave tool side gouging till we have material removed database up and running.

Thx,
Art ( Just keepign you informaed.. :)  )
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 05, 2009, 12:31:18 PM
Hi Guys:


Thx,
Art ( Just keepign you informaed.. :)  )



Sounds like a plan to me, thanks, Art-  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: andreroest on January 05, 2009, 12:36:28 PM
 ???
Tried to start the latest download, placed it into Mach3 directory with lazyturn installed but "ANN.dll not loaded"?

What can I do about this?

Kind regards,
Andre
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 05, 2009, 12:42:15 PM
Thanks Art

Sorry if my post disturb your way of thinking but i try to give a realistic image of what i think that turning is about.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 05, 2009, 12:45:28 PM
Hi:

 If ann.dll is not found, then you havent installed the LazyCam update before trying LTurn. Download the LCam update file and install that first.

thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: andreroest on January 05, 2009, 01:16:45 PM
 >:(Art,

Can you upload the update file to my emal adress.
The normal download from the site remains faulty.

Kind regards,
My email address is ahroest@xs4all.nl
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: andreroest on January 06, 2009, 01:16:01 PM
Unfortunately is it impossible to download a working lazycam update from this site and therefore it is also impossible to use lazyturn since he misses ANN.dll

Can somebody help me by mailing a working file???

ahroest@xs4all.nl

Kind regards,
Andre

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 06, 2009, 02:22:23 PM
I just checked it and it's working just fine. Possibly give it another try?

http://www.machsupport.com/downloads/LazyCam3.00.2_Update.exe

Also sent to your email-

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 06, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
Hi, Andre

I emailed the update to you a few min. ago, You'll need to rename the file I sent you.

Hears the ANN.dll Zipped up, You may be missing more than that though.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 06, 2009, 04:28:37 PM
Hi Art

A was thinking (i do sometime), if i use a diamant of 30 degree (for example) and i would use the same feedrate in X an Z direction the tooltip Will not like to cut in X direction because the force on the tooltip is to big in relationship to the Z direction.
On the other hand, if i use a grove tool the force relationship is in the opposite direction.
What i try to say that it is almost unavoidable to give tools a parameter table (what the program can work with) if we want to use a tool in the most useful way.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 06, 2009, 05:36:11 PM
Willem,
Can you explain more about the parameter table / what you mean?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 06, 2009, 07:16:57 PM
Hi
 post modification variables like indeed rates and such can be added later.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 07, 2009, 02:04:39 AM
Hi Rich

With the parameters i mean first Of course the geometries of the tool but also what 2:cutdirection, 3:feedrate in what direction (when more directions are possible) and how much it can cut in what direction (for example if I use A groovetool 3mm it will cut 3mm in X direction but maybe it can cut at the most 0,5mm in Z direction).
Of course there can be more but to keep it Lazy I think not all parameters will be necessarily (like what material the tip is made of, for what material it is to be used, positive/negative angle, etc.)
We have to think of course A bit ourself but the first three I think are important to keep my tools and project from crashing.
Sorry if I sound demanding, I don't mean to, see it only as suggestions.

Greetings:
Willem


Thanks Art

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 07, 2009, 07:42:17 AM
Willem,
Now i understand.Depending on what operation chosen ( when implemented ) differences would be needed in depth of cut and feed rate. The tool parameters already have that built in and maybe for each operation you may be required to define a different tool before generation of an operation.
At some point, it still come's down to the user needing to put reasonable values and apply some common sense for any task.
This eludes me to a part of the manual "Practical Machining Operations" which I put in the manual.
I don't know what ART has planned and to what degree the program will address related input decisions.

RICH

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: kieberer0 on January 07, 2009, 07:55:20 AM
hello to all
please why I can not find the manual. When I follow the link to the lazyturn manual, I get only this
message  "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you"
I am a registred user.
Three days before yesterday It was possible for me, to see the manual.pdf. but I forgot to save it, therefor
I need it new.
Thaks for your all help
Claudio
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 07, 2009, 11:00:00 AM
Hi Rich

You wrote it exactly how I mean it.
If, how, when and how extensive is of course up to Art.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 09, 2009, 07:16:52 PM
Hi Guy's,
Got a question,and don't know where to post it,but it contains a time simulator,that Mach Mill uses, to get an idea on how long the job is to run, for LT and Mach Lathe. I think it would be a good idea,but then again, I just was using Mach Lathe to do a sample cut,and waited,and waited, and then shut down the operation cause I had to do some other things. Did'nt think it would be that long. I try to time things in between other things, to get done,and it's a somewhat pain to plan ahead. Just thought i would mention it,if it was'nt too much a hastle to put ,either in Mach Lathe ,or LT, since it ends up in Mach lathe to do the part anyway. Anybody's Thoughts....  Thanks for Listening.     Thanks,    Hank S.       LT; This Is Great Stuff!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 09, 2009, 08:31:27 PM
Hank,
In Mach Mill there is an estimated run time for a given program. I have been using the standard screen for Mach
Turn and it dosn't have a run time in it, not to say that the screen couldn't be customized to add it. And sometime in the future they will probably improve the screen.  A few new lathe screens have been posted but not sure on their exact content.

It would be a nice feature to see the run time based on user defined pathing and then maybe you would adjust
pass depth to minimize or know how "approx" how long it will take to do.

It's up to ART.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 09, 2009, 09:15:14 PM
Hi, Hank

This Is something that can be edited in to Lathe screen set with screen4 editor.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 10, 2009, 12:22:31 AM
Hi Guys:

  Ill keep simulation time in mind, shouldnt be too hard to arrange since I know the feedrates and how many lines..

Still working on stock profiling of the cut to the tool.. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 10, 2009, 12:35:33 AM
Hi, Art

Thanks for the Info. update.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 10, 2009, 08:55:07 AM
Hi, et All,
Thanks ,I may see if I can do a Screen 4 and do a change. I played once before,and forgot to save after all the bips and boxes were arranged, POOF! o-well ....   Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on January 11, 2009, 03:24:52 AM
Hi
I have file it cannot be done, because of intersecting profiles or so.
what am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 11, 2009, 04:52:14 AM
Hi Zeeschuim

No problem here.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 11, 2009, 05:07:13 AM
Did A little more testing.
With A button tool up to 0.4mm it works.
With A button tool more then 0.4 I get the same result.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 11, 2009, 05:47:06 AM
Hi all

I think it is this part of the dxf that is not good.
Play with this part and you get te most funny thinks.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 11, 2009, 08:19:27 AM
I agree with you Willem,
   Zooming in closer reveals a profile that would be difficult and impractical to try to cut.
Simply trimming and connecting with a 2mm Rad. removes the undercuts and seems to eliminate the problem.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on January 11, 2009, 08:48:51 AM
OK, thanks guys
I have to take more attention when drawing.
regards,
Cees
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 11, 2009, 09:32:36 AM
CAD RULE in manual

3.19   Do not draw a profile with an element going or turning in a downward / backwards direction towards the face of the profile. The profile can proceed downwards but must be at least perpendicular to the center line of the object. ( As LazyTurn develops the statement may longer hold true but applies for now.)

also, practicaly speaking,
For actual machining you would need a tool tip radius small enough to follow the profile ( get into the sharp corners). Sharp corners are not good design in that they "introduce stress intensification factors" which downgrade the allowable forces and also affect cyclic design. Not to be smart but added the comment for interest purposes. If you want those sharp corners then you will need a very pointed ( or even custom ) tool to follow the profile and use that tool for the finish pass ( which Art is working on ).

Common sense will be required by the user when they create / use  a tool with an appropriate defined depth cut, spindle speed, etc. as it applies to what they want to machine.

RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 11, 2009, 09:35:44 AM
Hi Rc

But there is another  funny thing.
Look what happens if I just replace  pointer "A" in the dxf.
How is this possible
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on January 11, 2009, 10:29:18 AM
CAD RULE in manual

3.19   Do not draw a profile with an element going or turning in a downward / backwards direction towards the face of the profile. The profile can proceed downwards but must be at least perpendicular to the center line of the object. ( As LazyTurn develops the statement may longer hold true but applies for now.)

also, practicaly speaking,
For actual machining you would need a tool tip radius small enough to follow the profile ( get into the sharp corners). Sharp corners are not good design in that they "introduce stress intensification factors" which downgrade the allowable forces and also affect cyclic design. Not to be smart but added the comment for interest purposes. If you want those sharp corners then you will need a very pointed ( or even custom ) tool to follow the profile and use that tool for the finish pass ( which Art is working on ).

Common sense will be required by the user when they create / use  a tool with an appropriate defined depth cut, spindle speed, etc. as it applies to what they want to machine.

RICH

Yep,
but when English is not your own language it is difficult enough.
regards,
Cees
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 11, 2009, 10:50:30 AM
Willem,
Post your DXF with those changes. Also, if possible, a screen shot of the lathe tools screen showing the inputs.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 11, 2009, 11:03:22 AM
Hi Rich

Here are the dxf files.
the screenshots you see in previous post are without any tools loaded, just the dxf.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 11, 2009, 11:49:42 AM
Cees,
Thank you and I understand, but, it could have been worse........ "yus guys aint't seen nuttin". ;)


That reply covers a lot of subject matter. You will find text in the manuals containing high levels of thought, example; in "PRACTICAL MACHINING CONSIDERATIONS, APPENDIX "E",

3.3 Common sense regarding tool selection can be subjective depending on the user.

Just an example of verbage which will be changed...... over time.
      
At any time just reply with a DAH! ???

RICH
    
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on January 11, 2009, 11:59:56 AM
que? ???
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 11, 2009, 12:04:12 PM
What part?  :)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on January 11, 2009, 12:18:54 PM
all!! >:D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 11, 2009, 01:37:05 PM
Willem,
re: reply#768 & #771

I "exploded" the POLYLINE so the profile was converted to simple elements and saved it as a
ver 12 DXF.  When imported the profile was no longer cut off. Why "exactly" one polyline profile will work
and another won't i do not know.

APPENDIX "B" - CAD DRAWINGS AND COMMON MISTAKES

5.9 Compose the profile from simple elements.
so will add " USING A PROFILE COMPOSED OF A SINGLE POLYLINE IS NOT RECOMMENDED"

I never use and avoid polylines for a profile ( for CNC work). That's how I work, maybe it's
old fashioned and stupid, but.....
if you read Appendix "C" 2.0 DXF HISTORY you will know were i am comming from. No it dosn't answer
the question directly but gives insight on the matter.
 
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 11, 2009, 01:38:38 PM
Hi Willem,
  I could see nothing wrong with your #40 DXF but it would only load a partial profile here as well.
All I did was  select REDRAW in my cad and then it posted well in LT.
Here it is if you'd like to try it.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 11, 2009, 01:42:11 PM
ART,
Relative to Lazyturn import capability,
Do you have any comments on using polylines?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 11, 2009, 01:50:42 PM
Hi Rich:

  There should generally be no problem with a polyline, the problem comes in when a program modifies any element of the polyline by adding a "BULGE" factor tag to it to indicate that line is  a bulged polyline entity.
  As you guys have seen, the errors generally come into being when either entities cross over each other, ( mainly arc's, Mach3 fixed lines automatically) , OR when a recess in a profile is attempted to be profile by the tool radius distance. By this I mean the first step when generating a toolpath is to offset the main profile by the tool radius amount. This offset profile is used for the computation of the path itself. The module I use doesnt always generate a perfect offset. This is specially true of deep recesses. The result is the message "Sorry, Self intersecting profile found.". When this occurs a smaller tool radius will often work, or larger radisu in some cases. This is due to a breakdown in the 3d solid manipulation. I may find a solution at some point, but reducing the pockets depth may help as well. In the end using a lower radisu tool may be best for the cut in any cae, but Ill leave those details till the end.

Thx
Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 11, 2009, 02:31:03 PM
Hi guys

I learn every time A bit more.
Your input puts me on A higher level, thanks for that.

Rich

Yes indeed, when i explode the polyline it works but it remains A riddle why the file is corrupt just when relocate just that one pointer because if I relocate the same pointer back nearby where it is coming from the file loads fine.

RC

Your file loads fine, if I open it in Autocad I see that the polyline is exploded just like Rich recommended.

Art

This is to technical for me but YOU understand what is going on And that is important for the development of Lazyturn.
I am glad that I follow the Lazyturn tread from the start so I pick up all the ins and outs.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 11, 2009, 02:55:56 PM
zeeschuim,
"All" can be found in Appendix A,B,C,D,E which supplements the LazyTurn manual.  ;)

The sentence:
Sharp corners are not good design in that they "introduce stress intensification factors" which downgrade the allowable forces and also affect cyclic design.

We designers and engineers have a language also. When doing a design analysis, maybe a finite element analysis
which could be inclusive of static, dynamic, vibration, thermal, seismic, etc.. , shape factors such as sharp corners or
changes in the profile would be considered and evaluated as to the impact they have on the calculations.  A shaft could be perfectly fine for a static loading of say a 1000 lbs but because the shaft has a sharp corner cut into it the allowable working load is reduced. Nicks and other imperfections in the shaft can limit the number of times the piece can cycle thru bending or whatever thus fail before one without the imperfections. So we don't put sharp corners from a design point of view unless really required.

Now, most tooling won't give you a sharp corner , and practically speaking the design would call out for a radius equal to a standard nose radius. Practically speaking you would not expect a program to allow you to cut a .1" corner radius with a .5" defined nose radius for a tool. Common sense applies. Now on the other hand, someone may be lazy and not to practical and dosen't like to create radius corners in a drawing and will let the chips fly where they may. So be it. The definition of stupid.............practical.............and genius  .................is subjective ..............and still eludes us today. :)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 15, 2009, 06:24:53 PM
Hey Guy's,
Quiet in here! Got a question about the 3 fig's I attached. Just what causes the path to not get cut in the profile. Pullout,Stock Clear. Or the Depth of Cut. Been tring Many Profiles,and different config's and have come to a conclusion that all are the same as when posted with THIS, Tool, I Have Made For My Own Use, That clears all my Machine Clearence problems, One of which I am in the process of Extending  the carriage,and Handwheel, to acomadate the profile of the part I want to make. This size is what I want,and I have to make changes in the lathe to do this. What a PAIN, but then,It Look's good, and is worth the upgrade that I am doing. Art said " watch your profiles as there could be problems", and thus so. Not enough X clearence.  Just thought I would Share this info for anyone else that is going to find problem's in doing a One Off Profile. Thanks For Looking.    Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 15, 2009, 06:47:13 PM
Yep, I had similar occurances a while back, have a look:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,5767.700.html

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 15, 2009, 09:41:23 PM
Hi, Hank

Post the dxf file, I have seen this before, Would like to look at it.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 15, 2009, 10:07:06 PM
Hi Guys:

  Ive fixed up a few thing.. mighta added bugs...

 Anyway, Ive tried several algorithsm for the next step of calculating acutal cut from stock.. deleted the last attempt tonight.. Havent found quite the way Im happy with yet..

But this verison optimises some of the loading, catches more types of errors..

Have fun..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 15, 2009, 10:21:07 PM
Nice ART,
I like the wire frame option...if that's what its called.
Also, this new ver. doesn't recognise my tool .dat like the others did.
Thanks,
RC

And the tool tip radius shows as a relatively flat tip. And the stock clearance is ignored.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 15, 2009, 10:52:40 PM
hi RC:

  hm.. works here OK.. whats the radius on that tool, that may be a 0 stock clearance.. but the path woudl still be generated a tool tip radius away from the actual profile..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 16, 2009, 12:04:12 AM
Hi, Art

Getting this error on quit a few dxf's that previously worked good, Some won't load at all, Groove tool doesn't seem to like any of them.

Could you post values for the dif. Tools that your using.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 16, 2009, 09:11:38 AM
Hey Chip,
Here ya go. Cool here this AM.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 16, 2009, 09:17:50 AM
I seem to be able to load pretty much every dxf I have here..

  Post opne that one load, that used to if you will, Ill see why. I did make some pretty large changes
in the way files are handled in some instances. It may have had an effect.

 As to profile clearance, it shoudl work fine.. Seems OK here.  Tool Params did you use to get that errorbox..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 16, 2009, 06:12:26 PM
Hi, Art

Groove tool doesn't work on any files hear. Would you post one of your files that work for you.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 17, 2009, 09:35:21 AM
Sorry Chip, my bad. Had to do with support code for code not yet turned on.

Ill repost in a few minutes with that fixed.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 17, 2009, 09:39:53 AM
Heres a version with that support code turned off..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 17, 2009, 10:03:04 AM
Hi Art

This version is A very long time busy greating A toolpath.
After A while the program hangs.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 17, 2009, 04:51:10 PM
Hi, Art, Willem

That fixed it up, All tool's seem to load now, Her's 3 dxf's all the same except for left side shape termination, one good two are bad.

I see you cant rotate the cutter insert's now, In time will get it back when you get the final pass worked out, I'm guessing.

Willem, With the large Units your using, There's allot of calculations going on with small cuts per pass values are used, When proofing the profile try using a larger per pass value, It speeds it up allot.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 17, 2009, 04:53:13 PM
funny.. I didnt tell it not to rotate inserts.. they rotate here..

Art

:)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 17, 2009, 05:09:42 PM
Thanks for the update, Art-  :)

Chip, inserts are rotating here as well-

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 17, 2009, 07:07:35 PM
Hi, Art, Dave

Edit: I figured it out DUaaaaaa, You need to use Lt or Rt Tool select, Not Center..

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 17, 2009, 08:35:19 PM
Hi ALL,
Thought you'd have it all sorted out by now.   ;)Guess you need another day or two. :)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 17, 2009, 10:34:59 PM
Hi Guys:
 Yes, for the most part, other than Wire-Frame mode and a few loading changes, you shoudl find it much the same.
Youll notice primarily that there is no vertical line on the left side coming out, it now goes in to better emulate the intended part.
Its also necessary for the new anti-gouge code, which is turned off in your version.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 18, 2009, 06:10:37 AM
Hi Chip

I used the same tools and settings in the new and the old version but the new version needs A lot more time to make A toolpath.
If i load your king grahm from post #791 I get only errors .
From your objects out post #795 only one works and even in that one I get no good toolpath.

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on January 18, 2009, 06:37:32 AM
Hi Chip

Did A bit more testing and the king grahm works if I use A tooltip of 0.01 mm.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 18, 2009, 07:33:43 PM
Art,
Using DEC17 version- 10dxf_HCIR - REPLY #325 - PAGE 33
The inserts rotate on my end also. Seems to have a problem on paths based on the clearance selected.
Example: clearance: .1 bad path
                            .01 ok ( c1 screen shot )
                            .001 ok ( in c1 screen shot but below the .01 clearance )
                            .2 bad
                            .3 ok / not full
                            .3 ok full path but need to increase the stock size
I didn't try posting any code. The un-rendered  / wire frame image is a nice addition as it better clarifies  the tool in lathe tools.
Also like the down line  ( instead of up ) at the end of the profile as it signifies a closure or end of profile.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 20, 2009, 10:40:11 AM
Hi:

 I think I have this one caught. See if this works better..

( The green line in the end toolpath is unused, its just a diagnotic for me to see how far off the part is the tip
safety zone..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 20, 2009, 11:09:22 AM
Hi ART,
   Does this look normal ?
There is no clearance for the trailing edge of the tool.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 20, 2009, 11:21:16 AM
Hi RC:

 Ooops. I neglected to turn gouge detect back on.. Sorry about that.

Heres a version with detection turned back on.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 20, 2009, 11:42:36 AM
MUCH better..........thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chaoticone on January 20, 2009, 01:21:17 PM
Lookin good Art.  :)

Thanks guys for helping Art with this one. I really appreciate it. You guys are great and I'm certainly glad all of you found the forum.  :)

Brett
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 20, 2009, 03:51:27 PM
Art  and all,

I have a new issue with posting to Mach 3 Turn now so please check it on your end.

It seems all my past Gcode files and new files that I've made today have an error when trying to run them in Mach3 Turn.

Below are a series of screen shots with the first one with the error on line 1 dialog box.

After I click the ok button the second box comes up (erroronline2budman2).

After that is closed, the macro window opens (erroronline2budman3).

After closing that, I just click "Run" again and it runs normally.

Now I'm not a Gcode guy but when I delete the "S3000" in the code (shown in pic named "erroronline2budman4"), then I don't get any issues. Has something changed in LTurn to cause this? It seems more of a Mach 3 Turn issue but I haven't changed any settings in Mach 3 Turn at all.

Please have a look for me, ok?

Thanks,
Dave

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 20, 2009, 05:29:36 PM
budman68,
I don't see any problems with anything (That I Load), Course I don't have your .dxf or .dwg file to try here. I see some improvement in how it loads into Mach Lathe,Much sharper image,and is better more formed then before. Lines are much clearer in the profile. If you want me to try it here, I would be more then Glad to. Thanks,    Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 20, 2009, 05:37:33 PM
Hi Hank,

Thanks for checking. I'm guessing if it's not happening to you, it's on my end here.

I'll have to look into it some more and thanks for looking - :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 20, 2009, 05:44:44 PM
Dave,
Need the gcode file if you want a quick check on my end.
What version of Mach are you using?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 20, 2009, 06:06:43 PM
Hi:

  That error is  a MAch3 error. For some reason your havng trouble with macro's at the moment. Is this a recent Mach3 version? If not, upgrade..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 20, 2009, 06:34:23 PM
Rich, the reason I didn't include a file was because as I mentioned in my post, it was happening to all files, not just newly generated. Somehow must have done something to the program although I've made no changes to it since the last updat of LTurn. That's why I was confused as to why this didn't work today just after I updated LTurn this afternoon.

Art, thank you, I was running (happily until now) 3.041 but I'm downloading the latest lockdown now.

Thanks again to all of you-  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 20, 2009, 06:36:27 PM
Art,
I get a green line across the top of the profile in addition to the one that follows the profile.
Just ignore for now?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 20, 2009, 06:40:42 PM
Art,
I get a green line across the top of the profile in addition to the one that follows the profile.
Just ignore for now?
RICH

Rich Art mentioned that some posts ago:

Quote
Re: LazyTurn
« Reply #804 on: January 20, 2009, 12:40:11 PM »       

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi:

 I think I have this one caught. See if this works better..

( The green line in the end toolpath is unused, its just a diagnotic for me to see how far off the part is the tip
safety zone..



Just reinstalled Mach 3 and all is well -  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 20, 2009, 11:46:15 PM
Hi:

 The new green line that follows the profile is the offset profile used in calc's. Youll notice if the tip radius is increased, the profiles offset is as well.

The line at the top will be gone next version, it was a calibration line I was using.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 21, 2009, 09:19:55 AM
Art,
I must say this is Getting Better at each update, Thanks for your Great Work! I took a cut in a project,and using wood as a sample, to Make sure everything is clearing everything else,setting the depth of cut as small as I can,have seen no need to use a finish pass, but have a cutter that may make things go better for me,But I know it will be better to have,a Finish path, in harder material such as Alum,Ferrious, stock etc. I'm Very Well Pleased, at the progress. Just my 1/2 a buck.   Thanks,    Hank s.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 21, 2009, 11:57:24 AM
Hi Hank:

  Thx for the kudo's. Ive probably spent too much time making small loading changes and tightening things rather than moving forward, seems a very slow development. The trouble is the complexity, I find I have to stop and think, delete tons of code due to stupid assumptions, and then think again.
  There is such a variety of issues that can bite you that its really making me think. To keep such a thing Lazy, to make it easy enough to keep support low is a real challenge. The finish pass is truly a bitch in terms of logic. I think I know how I want to do it, but the intermediate steps are proving to be real difficult. Ive cleaned the current code, reformatted it into classes that each take care of sub items, and now Im ready to proceed I think, but expect it to be a bit slow with some stumbles along the way. While I know that with small passes you probably dont need a finish pass, at least in wood, your right that metal will require a good final pass, perhaps several.
   Its kinda ironic that if LTurn could do a finsih pass it probably now supasses LCam in terms of Turn work, but will take allot more work just to do what seems simple, a final pass. Youll soon see some movement there I hope as I will eventually stumble onto a method that Im happy with to compute the removed material. Ive deleted at least 50 algorithms so far, each one teaching me soemthing about the problem, and I think Im coming to an epithany about how to make it simple yet allow it to do fairly complex turning profiles.. we'll see.

  Glad to see so many having fun with the program as it builds, Im glad I added the post output early, even if its fairly simple in its output. ITs kinda nice to develop this way as the feedback is invaluable in keeping it lean and mean. Kinda like Mach2 in the old days. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: CNC-Steuerung on January 21, 2009, 02:55:23 PM
Hi Guys,

I'm visiting the thread from the beginning and the results are going better and better...
So Ive made a drawing for testing and demonstrating...

The basic DXF is attached, too, but another DXF which doesn't show the right pass even though
it has been drawn and saved from the same CAD (TurboCAD pro 12)?!

ART:
Very good Work! But don't forget the insides to make an easy translation. Starting from now Ill make
a German documentation for LT ;)

Best regards from old Germany

Wolfram
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 21, 2009, 04:43:42 PM
Wolfram,
Do you plan on converting to German the manual that is written in English?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: CNC-Steuerung on January 22, 2009, 05:06:14 AM
Good morning Rich,

meanwhile I'm writing complete new manuals in German.

For the first time Ive translated the original Mach3 manual, but now -because of a lot of special features in our German version-  the manuals are
very different.

Our German Mach3 / LazyCam  Manual has reached 661 pages (Milling and turning)... ::)

Best regards,

Wolfram



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 22, 2009, 05:03:05 PM
Wolfram,
Hats off to you as that is a lot of work. The Lazyturn manual will just mature as the program develops. Still a lot of
work to be done in it and feel free to post in the other thread with any comments you may have.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 06, 2009, 12:45:04 PM
Hi Guys:

  I know Ive been quiet, but Ive been working hard on the complex algorithms involved with determining the amount of leftover material after a cut.
After thousands of lines of deleted code, this version is the alpha of the material removal calculator. It doesnt yet take gouging into account for the stock,
but does figure out what youve removed. It was a bitch to get running accurately, Im more bald than when I started..

  There is undoubtedly bugs here, but Ive already caught 99% of them. There is a new diagnostic that you can use to help me track down a calc bug, youll see
it in the PassDepth dialog, if you check the "Intersect Diags" checkbox, youll then be asked how many passes to do, the resultant display will show me ( if you take a snapshot) how
the calc is doing up to a set pass number. See if you can find the pass just before it screws up the solid of the stock and send me the drawing, the tool numbers and the the pass data
so I can recreate it.

  This is a semi-major change from previous versions in how things are done. The tool max depth is the size of your inscribed circle, this may change but it stabilizes the important
operation of the material calculator.

 Anyway, see how you mak out, this is still very early, but I think you'll see why I needed material removed and how it will tie into finish calculations and volume on tip constraints.

 

Thanks,
Good luck,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: khalid on February 06, 2009, 01:17:11 PM
Art.. First of All i am very thankful to you for keep working on this great software.. LazyTurn seems very simple and i am soon going to implement it on my DIY lathe cum Indexer... I will post pictures here...

Thank you very much for such an excellent work you are doing for us:)...
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 06, 2009, 01:27:00 PM
khalid:

 Thx, its a bugger but I am learing quite a bit, so that coupled with the number of people who want easy profiles makes it worth continuing.. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: khalid on February 06, 2009, 01:48:23 PM
Oops.. after many many tries i succeed in importing the DXF into lazy turn.. basically if you kept open the same DXF in AutoCAD the lazyTurn do not import it...

I close the autocad and it work as charm...In the weekend i will try some stuff and post here...:)

Thanks ART for such a nice work.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on February 06, 2009, 06:00:40 PM
Hi Art,
I Just can't leave this alone, Always something new and Better! The file, .dxf loads faster,and is a little greener,but Faster loading.First off,the tool will not save,have to update tool evertime file loads,did not do this before, attached is... 0.010 across the board, nothing else checked, then checked visual dia. and got green line part way from left to right, then reload and 0.010 set visual dia. and got green line all the way, next reload, got the how many passes,and got cone across the image, reload 0.010 and got some weird things at the top left and center and left white line. Hope you can see this in the attached. Max depth does not work, and cannot change,it flashes but no change. Just something to Ponder!   This Stuff Is Great!   Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on February 06, 2009, 06:35:20 PM
Art,
I may have been doing something wrong? or something has come together nicely Now! tool now saves,and scan line dia and visual dia works well. was set on how many passes and was 9999 set to 20 on one then reload and set to 10 on the other, seems right? still 0.010 cut path, and seems OK ? What is the red bar at the top,it moves as you change the # of passes that you put in. Code lloads the same, Good. and all the other settings seem to be correct Now! I may have Jumped too fast, but I get Excited,when New things are Added. Great Job Again.   Thanks,  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 06, 2009, 07:40:10 PM
Hi ART,
I'll see what i can find.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on February 06, 2009, 07:53:16 PM
Hi,
Here is the default.Can't seem to get, the so called errors as before..... 1 hour fooling around to Break It. Here's the default setting. 0.1 across the board. visual dia. Work's well.   Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: khalid on February 07, 2009, 09:49:56 AM
Help me in setting up my Lathe..

In attached picture you see my machine setup..Its actually Milling machine with Indexer.. I will remove the Belt from the indexer gears and will install the Spindle motor to the protruded shaft... Now this will become the lathe..

As I generated the toolpath for one of the piece, I saw X and Z moves in G-code File.. Can some one give me an idea what will be the best arrangment for axis... My smaller axis is Y-axis and the larger one is X-axis..

Can you designate How I use it as a lathe? Following are some options:

1- My Z-moves (G-code One) as a machine Z-axis and the X-moves(G-code One) as the  machine X-axis
2- My Z-moves(Gcode One) as Machine Y-axis  and the X-moves as the Machine X-axis

Please some body give me an idea...:) It will be good for me  if somebody specify the G-code axes in the attached figure...

Thanks

My indexing work can be seen here.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39588&page=37
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 07, 2009, 10:15:24 AM
Hi Guys:

 Lets me explain whats going on with the phot that was shown in that letter above.
The selection for visual diags was checked, and the # of passes was set to seom number less than the passes normally generated by the material swept volume calculator.

  As you can see in the drawing the stock has been chewed down each pass till the maxPassNumber was seen, calc'ing stoipped at that point. The photo, shown again here, shows a few things. The greenline is the amount of offset from the part used in the profile goungin checks, ( just a diagnostic for me.), the black line on top is the actual stock outline at that point, White dots indicate endpoints of the material stock outline to that point. The large red shape, is the swept tool volume of the last pass done. It is the shape of the tool , swept by the amount of that pass , and subtracted from the stock volume, it was successfull on that line as shown by the fact the tool shape is properly subtracted fromthe material.

  When you do a toolpath, if the end material is wrong, you will be able to find a particular pass where the shape of the tool is NOT subtracted properly, this can happen from a wrong insode/outside assumption at some point. If you do get a failed stock, try narrowing in on What pass it failed on. Try 100, if it fails, try 50, if that passes try 75, etc.. eventually youll find a point where the subtraction fails, that image is the interesting one to me.

  In the rough command dialog, the Max Depth number is not one your allowed to change, its simply a limitation, based on the tool, of how deep you can cut. Its read-only. A tool can only be used to cut to its inscribed circle depth, and the end max depth is the inscribed circle, but compensated by diamter or radius mode selection.

  This is actually a very good shot and shows success up to that point, If the user had selected a pass one number higher, then the photo woudl show the next line being subtracted..etc..

 Just thought Id explain the straneg images.. :)

Art



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 07, 2009, 10:45:04 AM
Thanks for the explanation Art.
Hopefully i will  get to testing some later today.
Do you envision the diagnostic remaining in the program or is it just a temp thiing at this time?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 07, 2009, 11:00:47 AM
Hi Rich:

  I may leave it in, though I may hide it a bit in selection, its a handy way to see whats screwing up a swept volume calculation, and it may help in future with
diagnosing any strange problems, the SVC ( swept volume Calc , so I dont have to type so much in future :) ), is a very important subsystem and will be tied into allot
of the future calcs, its now about 98% working, so Ill need help in finding the last bugs in it to get it 100%, bu nothing is ever 100% so the diags will likely stay.
 Personal diagnostics that are only for me are already hidden and run only in debug compilations.

   SVC is known in the industry as being very hard to do , and its taken allot of research to get to the right point,which is why Ive been so quiet. I deleted dozens of versions over time, but this one is a keeper, if we can get rid of its pecadillos it will be a great way to find secondary roughing passes, and then, finally a proper finish pass.

  It seems to fail as the tool hits close to the center line, or passes it, but Im narrowing in on the failure. I believe its a failure to see inside vs outside properly in certain specific
line compbinations. Ive seen it fail so far mostly in areas where an intersection hits anothert intersection making it difficult to sense the proper winding of the tool. We'll see. :)

  All this has secondary application to real-time simulation as well perhaps as volumetrics being performed on a per pass basis, that woudl be very powerfull stuff if it can be applied properly.
Ive kept the fancy stuff out for now till it can be made bulletproof as I dont want to overly confuse issues involved in finding trouble.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 07, 2009, 12:24:30 PM
Here's a newer version, shows volume of stock on tree, and volume removed per toolpath when the toolpath is truly sucessfull.

 Im narrowing on the failures and hope to find it soon.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 07, 2009, 01:42:20 PM
Art,
Lets see if my understanding is correct. The attached shows three different senerios all with the same tool settings except for the numer of scans done.
_1_  -  RESULT OF 1 TO 5 SCANS
_2_  -  RESULT OF 6 SCANS
_3_  -  RESULT OF 9999 / SCANS

So how do i interpret?
 
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 07, 2009, 01:56:33 PM
Ok, just tried the newer version. Same figures in last post #837 apply.
So now in the tree i see no volume was removed from the end volume.

Thus, until it shows that the tool volume was removed it still is a now go?
Bear with me, don't want to spin my wheels once i start going thru a whole bunch of files.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 07, 2009, 02:24:22 PM
Rich:

 1) I have to fix gouging tools, the dpeth is way too limited.. doesnt make sense using inscribed cicrle to limit that tools depth.

2) Your file is failing on load, no stock is being displayed, Ill look into that as well.

3) Your _1_ is working correct, the black box that IS the stock before begin revolved is shrinking properly pass by pass.

4) Your _2_ shows proper as well, as that line is correctly showing being subtracted from the black box to create a new stock shape.

5) this one is hosed, see how the balck box is now just a line shape on the left, soemwhere between pass 6 and the final pass , whatever it is, the balck box was destroyed by a filed subtraction in the SVC system.  Youd have to expeiment to find where that occured.

 Your main troubel is that no stock soild is being generated on any pass formthe solid, I suspect this is an OpenGL issue on your system, so Ill tighten the rules to see if I can find out why.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 07, 2009, 02:28:12 PM
This one is done with a different tool and the latest version.
See comments.
What can i say, back in training!  ;)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 07, 2009, 02:38:21 PM
Need to do go  :( ,  back in a few hours.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: frogeye on February 09, 2009, 03:45:32 PM
Hi Art,

If I'm understanding correctly, this is an example that you can use for fault finding?  It looks good up to pass 3, but fails as shown on pass 4.  the file is one that was posted here a while back.
Cheers,
Paul(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Paul\Desktop\4pwn_dxf_fail.jpg)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 10, 2009, 12:35:20 PM
Hi Art
Saw you posted a new version i have not downloaded this version but in trying the last version on a profile the cut profile didn't work the profile has an 8 MM radi at one end the G-code and graphic in Mach turn did not show or perform any radi moves however it did show the radi in LT so i don't know what i did wrong maybe you can shed some lite on whats happening attached arre the files.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 10, 2009, 12:43:35 PM
Sorry, I deleted that version, here is a new one.

 Ill look at the tunnel file and see what I can see.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 10, 2009, 12:45:06 PM
Hi:

 Try latest version, new_tunnel fiel seems to work here fine..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 10, 2009, 12:47:12 PM
sorry,I missed the point on the tunnel file..

>>the G-code and graphic in Mach turn did not show or perform any radi moves however it did show the radi in LT so i

 Lturn never generates a radii, it wtill only does roughing, and roughing is always just straight line cuts..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 10, 2009, 12:58:04 PM
OK, I promise, no more versions today after this one..


Fixes some zooming issues on smaller items..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 10, 2009, 01:57:04 PM
Art
LT won't do any radi OK that settles that will it do radi in the future version or never at all i thought in the finish pass it would do radi.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 10, 2009, 02:00:01 PM
Art
looked at LT on the screen it shows the cut lines around the radius so i don't understand if it only dose straight lines then why would it show the cut line as a radius?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 10, 2009, 02:55:13 PM
Art
Wait a second what do you mean it dose not do radius in the above pictured pawn and the 50 example they have several radius what gives.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 10, 2009, 03:44:27 PM
There is no radius or arc move there, all your seeing is the end points of the stright line cuts, they form an arc i flooked at from end point to endpoint, but if you zoom in on any toolpath youll see there iare no arcs, the toolpath is always comp[rised only of straight lines..

(maybe we're talkign of two different things..)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 10, 2009, 05:55:19 PM
art
look at the profile on page 85 called 50 comment the cut line follows an in and out curve on the profile it's not just a straight line especially the green cut line, am the only one actually cutting metal ?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 10, 2009, 10:37:04 PM
Hi:

 That curve in the cur is created only by sucessive straght cuts. The green lien is not a cut line, its just a guide line for me to use in my calculations.
LazyTurn has never put out arcs. There is no code in it to do so as yet, the green lien is not meant to be a cut line, its all just straight cut lines adding up to the end shape..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 10, 2009, 11:03:33 PM
Art,

Still with you, just doing to manny things lately.
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 11, 2009, 10:41:49 AM
Hi Art
Yes i agree with what you are saying back and forth straight line cuts Chip and i worked on the file last night and got Mach to load the g-code correctly don't know what was going on but Mach would only cut about 4 pass and never make the step cuts for the curve or arc what i was trying to do was to rough out the part in LT and then make a finish pass in LC more steps then i would like but it gets the job done and that's the important thing is there a rule of thumb for the minimum cutter tip size maybe this has something to do with it thanks for the help.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 11, 2009, 11:12:27 AM
Dennis:

  the only real rule is that the tip fit. LazyTurn is being written as a solid's comparator. Its the only way I could figure out a path to completion,
so it creates solids from the profiles and tools, then trys to fit the tool onto the profile in scanlines. It has to compute intersections and collisions
to do the path. Its all very complex and some bugs remain in the calculations, but its getting tighter all the time, failures can be caused by the code
or the tool size, and even the pass depth, you'll notice a filure at one pass depth may be corrected by simply modiying the depth by a small amount.
even a change from .1 to .1001 can fix the trouble.

  Ill be switching types of algorithsm soon to try to get the last of the intersection bugs, ( so ironically it may get more buggy while thats tracked down. :)  )

  Until I dream up a few more checking algorithsm to fix up head on collisions with intersectional point duplicated in the tool and profile, this error
will continue, so when a profile fails, try a slightly different depth. If a profile says " Self interseting profile found" try chaning the tool to a slighly smaller
tip radius or slightly larger, typically it will fix the trouble.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 11, 2009, 11:32:26 PM
I still have never been able to get anything close to a tool path with LazyTurn.  I keep trying and sometimes can get close.  I have attached a DXF and a screen shot of my latest try.  The red circle on the left is where Lazyturn looks like it parts off the part even though the DXF does not have a 90 degree angle there.  The red circle on the right is where is looks like it put the tool path.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: frogeye on February 12, 2009, 04:28:54 AM
Hi Vince,

Try the following;
1. increase your stock diameter - there's not much to rough out in your screen shot.
2. In the rough profile dialogue box set pullout clearance, stock clearance and depth per pass to 0.1, 0.01 and 0.1
3. Try a 35Deg diamond tool with a tip radius of 0.01, and an inscribed circle of 0.2.

I appreciate that these settings might not be what you want to use, but should get you a result as below.

The line in the red circle is I believe part of the dxf profile that LT is working towards. A parting off operation is something for the future.  LT just does rouging cuts at the moment which consist of straight cuts parallel to the work axis.
Rgds
Paul
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 12, 2009, 05:45:03 AM
Vince,
You should be able to get the roughing passes out of LazyTurn and finish pass out Lazycam Turn.
That is a whole lot easier than hand coding something like your recent post in another topic.
That's what DennisF and Chip are up to. It should work and just need to a carefull how you append the finish
gcode into the code file from LazyTurn. You could just use Lazycam Turn but it sometimes times generates a
code line which cuts thru the profile ( so make sure you dry run it and watch for that cut through). The fix is usualy nothinig
more than changing the order of an X or Z move from a combination move. See the LazycamTurn manual as i talk about that problem.
Why it's bombing out in Mach for  Dennis  I don't know as it shouldn't.  

Just a reminder that there are a lot of versions of Lazyturn and some are created for Art's purposes of checking the program.

Again, still easier than handcoding, piecing together from wizards, and cheaper than spending a lot of money
for a lathe program.  

RICH
  
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 12, 2009, 11:50:12 AM
OK, I', still trying.  I think I am getting closer.  Here is a file for another part of my Miser engine.  I looks like it roughed it out OK.  I am going to use a .125" wide grooving tool to cut the part.  When I enter .125 as the tools inscribed circle the tool shows up twice as wide as it should be.  If I enter .0625 as the inscribed circle, the entry changes to .01.  I can't enter any value between .1 and .01.   I chose .1 since it was closer to what I wanted than .01.  Everything looked OK so I posted.  I am in diameter mode in both Lazyturn and MachTurn.  The G-code that was generated came out half the diameter of what was shown in the Lazyturn display.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 12, 2009, 01:35:49 PM
hmm, Ill have to double check the radius/diamter mode.. and allow a smaller incribed circle on a gouging tool, ( there really is no such concept in a gouger.. but a radius of .1 would be a width of .2 at any rate, I just need to remove the limitation of width from a gouging tool is all I think.. and check the end code generator..

 Getting there slowly..  :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 12, 2009, 03:05:03 PM
Art
Cut the tunnel today it cut the profile but LT left about 3 MM this a lot on this part to put one finish pass, anyway to rough it out to say 1 MM this would be a good pass amount in any of the versions is the finish pass button working yet i am on a December version thanks.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 12, 2009, 03:11:00 PM
Dennis:

 No, still no finish path, but its getting closer. Typically, the most that will be left on any section will always be less than 1 pass depth, if doing a 3mm depth, you may have up to 3mm left over and uncut. This is a normal roughing cycle though. The next step will be a semi-finish pass, which is a roughing cycle done with a finishing tool to remove anythign that woudl overload the finish tool during its final finish pass but I cant do that until I fix up rough stock gouging tests..thats currently being worked on.
 
  Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 12, 2009, 04:49:59 PM
Art
OK i will have to come up with a work around for now but the program is looking better and better keep up the good work i appreciate it.

Dennis

Hi, Dennis Hears the File, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 13, 2009, 11:12:50 AM
Hi Chip
Thanks for the file.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 17, 2009, 01:52:11 PM
Hi Guys:

  Sorry, had to delete an earlier post.

 This new version is faster, more accurate, and now knows how much material is left.
It can take a long time to generate hundreds of passes, but this is about as fast as it gets I think for this type
of algorithm.

  You should find this version much more robust, and accurate, not to mention faster. Radius/Diameter is taken into account in posting as well.

 Anyway, have fun,

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: frogeye on February 17, 2009, 05:30:36 PM
Hi Art,
Sorry to be a wet blanket...
Getting the following errors when opening any dxf file.  These were ok in the previous Version.

"CLazyTurnView
   An OpenGL error occured: invalid value"  OK out of that to get

"Warning no appropriate turning profile found"  OK out of that and you get in to a continuous loop of the first error requiring you to use task manager to quit LT.


Cheers,
Paul
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 17, 2009, 05:54:50 PM
  You should find this version much more robust, and accurate, not to mention faster. Radius/Diameter is taken into account in posting as well.

 Anyway, have fun,

Art

I tried the latest version with the crosshead dxf file in my earlier post using a .060 grooving tool,  Pullout clearance of .1, stock clearance of .01 and depth per pass of .05 and Lazyturn locks up.  It draws a yellow path outline before locking up.  In my windows task manager it says the LazyTurn.exe is using 99% fo the CPU.  If I choose a .125" grooving tool it does not lock up.  If I choose a depth per pass of .025 with the .125" grooving tool, it locks up.  If I use the .060 grooving tool and set the z offset for 0 and the stock diameter at 1.5" it works.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: frogeye on February 17, 2009, 06:04:24 PM
Opps, Looks like I've broken something here  :(.  Tried the Feb 7th version and that's giving the same errors.  I'll look into it a bit further tomorrow.

Paul
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 17, 2009, 06:09:30 PM
Paul:

  Ill wait ot hear back. :) , if it fails let me know. ...

Vince, I doubt its locked up, probably just doign too many passes, the math involved in finding an accurate
measure of removed material means that each pass it has to do makes it slower and slower, its a quadratic
time usage, so try a deeper depth per pass, or wait very patiently until its done, I doubt very much it locked up,
its just taking a long time to complete.

 Try deeper depth per pass, and youll see it gets longer in time the shallow the depth you use. But it will complete....slowly..
I dont recall the Crosshead file, how many passes would .025 do? ( in diamter mode that may be only .0125 off the radius
each pass..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 17, 2009, 06:20:35 PM
It has to do with the Z offset and depth per pass.  When Z offset is set for 0 it works for .050 per pass or .025 per pass, but if the Z offset is .1 it seems to lock up.  Takes less than a second to calculate either a .050 per pass or .025 per pass. 

At .02" per pass and .01" per pass (with the Z offset at 0) it looks like it locks up, I gave up after several minutes each.  I figure at less than a second for .025" per pass, .02" per pass should not take several minutes. 

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 17, 2009, 06:39:51 PM
It is still trying to calculate the rough cut at .020" after 20 minutes.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 17, 2009, 06:48:35 PM
ART,
Your latest version looks good. All i know is i quickly tried four files and and didn't have any problems.
Even dummy running them, the pathing looked good.
Need to try and break it.
So hopefully will get to spend some time and see what happens.
Till then,
RICH


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 17, 2009, 07:44:41 PM
Vince

  hmm maybe the a offset is screwed

I'll run some tests

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on February 17, 2009, 08:55:42 PM
Everything locks it up for me as well.....not having any luck with the last version so I may have to re-install -

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 17, 2009, 10:59:07 PM
My appologies.. it finally locked up for me, though why it took hundreds of runs to match your immediate lockups Ill never know.
The problem was a degenerate condition I hadnt accounted for. This version fixes it.

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 17, 2009, 11:14:54 PM
Thanks Art, that was fast.  I tried it at a depth per pass of .02" and .01" and it worked.  The .01" took less than three seconds to generate the tool path.  At .02" my project would be close enough that I could finish it off with a file.  Now I'm getting real excited about the finished product.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 17, 2009, 11:41:48 PM
Hi, Art

Most files hear seem to load fine, But I did have some lockup's with generating rough passes that seemed to be associated with Pullout Clearance values.

Testing the new 17-3 now,

Posting seems fine in Radius mode, Have a couple questions about Diameter mode and "PerPass" values, Shouldn't it stay the same as Rough Profile

"Depth Per Pass" value no madder whether your in Radius or Dia. Mode.

Edit: Someone check me on this, It appears that Dia. mode post is off, Per pass is good at .1, But Dia. is 2 times to big.

Hears the DXF, It's round numbers, 1 unit minor dia. by 1.5 unit major dia. by 4 unit's Long. LCam set to Dia and Mach set to dia. mode also.

Getting Late Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 18, 2009, 07:43:30 AM
Hi Chip:

  The depth pass pass will change in meaning in radius vs diameter. The depth per pass is how much is removed per pass really, so in radisu mode 1/2 of the amount of diamter woudl be taken off.
Though I havent tested any of it in posting so I may have made soem wrong assumptions as I quickly got that section going.

  IIn the end, if you select diamter, and the object is 1" round, the end GCode shoudl reflect a 1" round item in either mode. I havent verified that though so yell if Im wrong. Rad/Dia is usually a perspective thing and depends on what referance one is using as to distance. But I could aeasily have futzed up.. I do that allot. :)

Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: frogeye on February 19, 2009, 01:24:58 PM
Getting the following errors when opening any dxf file.  These were ok in the previous Version.

"CLazyTurnView
   An OpenGL error occured: invalid value"  OK out of that to get

"Warning no appropriate turning profile found"  OK out of that and you get in to a continuous loop of the first error requiring you to use task manager to quit LT.


Hi Art,
Seems the problem was only found when opening a file that was listed in the 'file' menu.  Open the same file from its original location, and it works. One the file has been opened from its original location, it works from the file menu too  ???
Cheers,
Paul
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 23, 2009, 01:29:31 PM
Hi, Art

I.ve done a little more checking on Post's, They seem to post properly hear, Rad. & Dia.

1. In the LT display there is a issue when setting stock size value, It hangs the ruler values pop-up white windows if you change the value and remains frozen till you reset the  Profile Diameter.

2. In Dia. mode the left side Tool Path Data "Per Pass" value is 1/2 the value it should be, It should show Rough Profile "Depth Per Pass" setting value.

This version is working much faster for sure.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 23, 2009, 02:36:00 PM
Thx Chip:

  Ill check them out.

 Here is a new version. This version completes Phase 2 ( AntiStock gouging).

  This , however, is impossible to do without introducing a new setting you need to worry about.

Ive stated before , that center post tools will be considered safe to cut on both sides of the tool. Left tools, can cut only on
the left of the tool, Right post tools only on the right of the tool. Next phase will have the toolpaths cutting in those directions as well.
Center and left facing tools will cut Right to Left, and Right facing tools will cut left to right.

   This leaves the question of "How much" of the flank of the tool can cut. Ive opted to do this as easily as I could figure out by
adding a tool setting called "Flank Depth". If you were to measure fromt he tip of your cutting edge to the furthest away part of the flank
that is safe to cut, this would be the flank depth. This will greatly affect your end toolpath, so study the pic's enclosed till you understand
the concept. Note that on the tool, the flank that CAN cut is only to a depth of "flank" mm's.

  The result can be seen in the example cut path, note how the tool stays firther and further away from the desired cut since the tool would
otherwise cut deeply into the stock on the flank edge.. thats a no no.. :) , you can set for center post, or use a flank of zero if you dont care
about stock gouging.

Expect this one to be slightly slower, its doing much much more. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on February 23, 2009, 04:24:48 PM
I had troubles with the 2 previous versions but this version is working VERY well for me, Art, no issues yet to report -  ;D


Thank you so much, as always-
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Racer on February 24, 2009, 10:00:47 PM
This is looking good! Thanks Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 24, 2009, 10:10:52 PM
Am I correct that at this time LazyTurn only does turning, not facing?

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 24, 2009, 10:59:50 PM
That is correct Vince,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 25, 2009, 02:05:52 AM
Hi, Art

Tool settings and profiles, Just couldn't resist looking beyond the limit's a Little, Wow !!!

Look's like the tool Shape profile is working nicely.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 25, 2009, 06:38:26 AM
Looking good Art!
Although quitely on the side, I'm still following the postings. Hopefully will get
around to doing some testing. Keep up the good work.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 25, 2009, 11:00:53 AM
Thx guys, its starting to accelerate a bit as I get past the very hard sections..

Here is the next version, this allows for either direction in cutting. Only center tools can cut in either direction, a left tool can cut only left, a rigth tool only right.
You can switch directions in the Rough dialog by pressing the direction indicator.

Thx, Have fun,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 25, 2009, 11:47:28 AM
Hi, Art

Tool settings and profiles, Just couldn't resist looking beyond the limit's a Little, Wow !!!

Look's like the tool Shape profile is working nicely.

Chip

Chip, how did you get the tool to angle?  I tried changing the angle setting in the tool profile but it stays the same.  What I am trying to do is exactly what you show in your three pictures.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 25, 2009, 11:50:35 AM
Vince:

  Only a rigth or left facing tool can be angled. The definition of angled in LazyTurn is that the tool is Right or LEft angled, so just select it to be Left and then set an angle.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 25, 2009, 12:07:49 PM
OK, I got the tool to angle, but I can't get it to come out like Chip's.  See the attached picture and DXF.  What am I doing wrong?

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 25, 2009, 02:39:22 PM
Hi, Vince

You need to draw it something like the att. dxf, I was just fooling around some to check limit's and the way tool settings respond.

There are no final pass code generated and it dosent generate the proper transitional Red line as it should at some point.

You'll need to be very care-full with tool holder position also, You may be able to get final pass with LazyCam Turn.

But it's All Experimental Work at this point.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 25, 2009, 03:00:38 PM
Hello Guys,
  I find the same as Chip. The hub needs to extend beyond the face of the tire.
Also, the pullout needs to be set to 0, or very small amount to prevent a wreck at the point shown.

Goin' to Lakeland thi year Chip ?  How bout you Vince ?

Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on February 25, 2009, 03:19:03 PM
Hello Guys,
  I find the same as Chip. The hub needs to extend beyond the face of the tire.
Also, the pullout needs to be set to 0, or very small amount to prevent a wreck at the point shown.

Goin' to Lakeland thi year Chip ?  How bout you Vince ?

Thanks,
RC

Thanks for the info.  No Lakeland for me this year.  I am mostly unemployed at the moment (which is why I can post in the middle of the day).  I went a few years ago when they had Glacier Girl on display. 

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 25, 2009, 04:14:36 PM
Hi Guys:

  Its all because your trying to face operation, and you cannot really face as yet. When profileing is done, Ill look at rotating the object and profiling the face, but till then,
LazyTurn is a profiler only. :) ( Cheating aside. :) )

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 25, 2009, 05:15:04 PM
Hi, Art

I thought it was "Expanding the Envelope", But Cheating will Work Also, The Button Tool seems/may work very good for Cheating.

Edit: I understand, G-code will need to cut backwards/reverse order, It's just nice to see the tools and such working so good.

Thanks, Chip

Hi,  RC, Vince

Lakeland, 2 Hr's south for me, Maybe a couple of day trip's, If I can get away.

For Drawing accuracy, I use .0001 Line above Y Zero line and set the profile  back at least 1 cutter width from X Zero vertical line.

Seem to get a good Profile for now.

Thanks, Chip :D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on February 27, 2009, 12:11:05 PM
Hi All,
Been working on a toolholder that will use the same tool for the same job,and it has been a challenge to get the offsets to work right,and am still tring sample cuts to get it right,or changing the design to make it work; Who knows,it maybe all done in Vain,but Worth the time I have So Far. Take a Look and see what you think,Rotating the holder or the Insert is tricky,as it does not always come up at the same spot,but is close.... works with facing, and back cutting, BUT,still needs more Work. Thanks Art, It keeps on getting Better and Better Everytime...  Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Ben on February 27, 2009, 11:40:03 PM
Nice job. I've enjoyed playing with it and watching it develop. Just a thought but it seems to me it would be advantageous to have the shadow image, the one after the rough cut, made available as a DXF file. You could use it to make another pass, after tool change, the other direction. Or until this one does finish passes put it into Lazy Cam. Ben
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 28, 2009, 10:27:24 AM
Hi All:

  Just a note on the forward progression of the program as I see it.

  The next phase is for multiple tool cuts. Each one building from the previous. The way I think its all going to work
is that the user will have only one button, "Cut" , which will replace the "rough" button. If you select a tool, and press Cut,
the system will do as it does now, BUT if no material will be removed, the user will be prompted as such and asked if he
would like a "finish pass" to be performed. So if a user presses Cut twice without changing tools, he will be promted
for a finish pass authorization. On the other hand, if material CAN be removed, ie: the tool or direction was changed, the system
will simply add just another rough pass only on the material left over from previous passes.

   This means Users will not be able to decide on their own to do a finish pass and no button will exist for one, LTurn will
only trigger a finish pass when a cut is requested with a tool that cannot remove any further material with arough pass.
 Its my hope this will firstly ensure that no tool can be hurt by improper finish passes that attempt to take away too much
material for the tool's  previous passes, and reduce the amount of decisions made by the user as well as reducing the number
 of buttons to two, one for tool selection, and one for CUT.

Optionally, A third button, FACE, will be added then to allow for the entire job to rotate 90 degrees on the screen
to allow for the other two buttons to be used identically, only in facing operations instead of profiling. That will leave only the final
optional button, BORE to be added for inside operations should I decide to go there.

  Finally,and optionally, two editing operations need to be added, one for drawing or modifying the a DXF profile, and one for drawing a custom tool shape.

    This would pretty much meet the specification I had planned from the start, an easy profiler system, with few buttons, and not a whole
lot of understanding required by the user as to tool loads and such, and as little "air" cut time as possible. If that can be accomplished I'll
feel we have managed to build something not readily available to the public as it stands, most programs being difficult to conceptualize exactly
what will happen in the cutting progression, and having many complex decisions to be made in the DXF to Gcode process, or simply too expensive
for the hobby level or intermittant lathe user. LTurn was never meant to replace CAM as Ive said many times, it is simply being engineered to
make a resonable and fairly powerful way of doing a quick Gocde operation from a simple DXF. The word LAZY is seomthing Im taking very seriously
in its design. We live in a Lazy world, and Im a lazy type guy. :)

   Im getting pretty close. The next phase will tell me just how capable I am of completion,as Im about to swap the "single pass" system to one
 of linear progression of material removed from pass to pass. If that phase works out as well as previous phases have Ill add the final finish pass
before Releaseing in Beta form and making a decision as to if I feel that facing and boring are worth moving into,though Im of the opinion
that drawing the profile to be used and saving profiles of DXF's may be a necessary thing in order to make the program fully
independant. 

 Personally Im of the opinion that profiling shouldnt be that long to full completion allowing removal of Turning from lazycam alltogether. Mayeb another 2-3 months
, who knows.. All development from that point will depend on popularity and how much the program is downloaded and used (support levels ) as Ill release a standalone
of the program to that point as a test.

 I guess from there we'll find out how many lathe people are out there that dont currently already have a favorite way of generating toolpaths. :) , and if
indeed there exists a real need for easy Gcodeing in Turn op's. Its turned out to be far far more complex than I originally though, and the work required has
been long and arduous, so we'll need some metric to tell me if my time is better spent elsewhere after that.

Thx, just a few noted on how I see the program developing, and what my rough schedule is on this one. 

Art
 

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 28, 2009, 10:47:16 AM
Excellent work ART.
I like the 2 button/prompt set-up.
I hope there will be enough users to justify your time spent on this project.
It surely is appreciated here.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on February 28, 2009, 03:41:58 PM
Hi Art

Thanks for the excellent work so far.
In my case your time is very well spent.
As you can see in the time you are working on Lazyturn there are more lathe people coming that use A lathe.
As the program is growing there are more people to come be course you make A program that people can use and is affordable so it will become possible and fun to work with A lathe.

Thanks again and greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on February 28, 2009, 05:04:30 PM
I couldn't have said anything that hasn't already been said.

Thank you Art, you've taken such a great task on with this project and have been very generous  with your knowledge and time.

It's truly appreciated how easy you've made it for this newb (me!) to even get this far.  8)

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Andreas on March 01, 2009, 09:29:51 AM
Hi Art,

Quote
I guess from there we'll find out how many lathe people are out there that don't currently already have a favorite way of generating toolpaths.

I know from the German Mach3 forum (Immo) that there are some people (besides me) who are interested in LazyTurn. It seems to become a very good tool for us hobby-millers.

Thanks for your hard work,

Andreas
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: khalid on March 03, 2009, 10:28:01 AM
Hi ART... You said you are a Lazy guy...:)Don't tell me..... and  Don't fool us man... You are the most intelligent and genius man around here... The creator of Mach series ,Lazycam and now Lazy turn must not be a common men like us.. You are an  indigenous intellectual... and i am proud of you being with us... Salute to YOU.. :)

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 03, 2009, 11:22:28 AM
khalid:

  :), Thanks for the comment, but really none of this is all that difficult I think, Im the slowest thing in it and believe me, I confuse myself every day. I guess I should be gratefull no true genious decided to do CNC, I woudl have been left far behind. LOL , but I do appreciate the compliment.

  My secret is that I found that you can do anything in programming if you are persistant and work through the confusion. Im lucky my concepts of LazyTurn are starting to work very well, I was getting the feeling that it needed someone brighter than I to do it because the math is very difficult to conceptualize , but suddenly I find its on its way and Im really pleased with whats coming out now. I just got multiple tool cuts working today and it looks like it really WILL be Lazy after all.

  Just a note, Im off to Florida for a short vacation week starting Saturday, so you likely wont get multiple tool cutting till a week or so after I get back. The diagnostics tests Im doing are working very well though so Im hopefull it wont be too long.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: khalid on March 03, 2009, 12:19:02 PM
Art..Your THIS humbleness killing me man :) Really thankful to you for taking your time and  answering my post...  Have a nice and safe Journey :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 03, 2009, 07:35:02 PM
Art,
Hope you enjoy the vacation and  appreciate the insight on how Lazyturn will proceed.
Have a few questions.
Will it be mandatory to make a rough pass?
Will you be able to just double click cut and get a request for a finish pass?
Will you be able to post after a rough pass?
Will a license be requred to post code? Put a little differently, what if anythiing will come with MACH?
 
I am struggling with the drawing program somewhat. Yes, you would need to save the dxf if that was provided.
Guess if a choice existed between having a drawing program with dxf save or facing and even just a simple
( if simple really exists) straight thru boring i would want the boring and facing. But that's just my preference.

It will be interesting to see the usage of Lazyturn. Only time will tell. Appreciate all you have done.
Don't get a sunburn while on vacation.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 03, 2009, 09:13:08 PM
Hi Rich:

>>>Will it be mandatory to make a rough pass?

  Yes, the way it functions is to do a rough if material exists that shoudl be roughed, only do a finish if the tool is done. I will look into perhaps making it just finsh if no rough seems necessary, but
the way the algorithms work I think it needs to compute the rough ..

>>>Will you be able to just double click cut and get a request for a finish pass?

  No, the checking is mandatory as it performs many of the main calculations needed.

>>Will you be able to post after a rough pass?

  Yes, you will be able to post at any time, or just on specific stages.

>>>Will a license be requred to post code? Put a little differently, what if anythiing will come with MACH?

   Yes, and No. Ive promised from the start to give it at no cost to LCam Pro users, but that may be just Pro users up to any release date.
No real decisions have been made, Ill wait to see how it all works, how clean and how lazy it is before I decide how to handle its distribution,
Support issues and such may preclude it from being a part of Mach3's distribution, if so I may just make a separate web site for it and give licenses
to all LCam Pro users to its release date, then make it a standalone package since it could in theory be used with any lathe as long as the post processor
can be configured, but all thats a ways away, and just thoughts, I have no set plan and it depends on many things. Beta testers and such will all get free licenses ,
previous users of Turning in LCam will as well, but the distribution issues will wait till LCam and LTurn have been changed abit in what they offer and then it will
 be looked at in context of two separate packages and how best to support them.  In summary..christ knows.. :)

Art



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 04, 2009, 12:08:45 AM
AND SO IT WAS SAID AND SO IT WAS DONE
AMEN  ;)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on March 04, 2009, 01:17:45 AM
Hi, Rich

It's pretty close to doing inside boring, Well in rough anyway, Just needs the cutting order reversed in the post.

Tool's are working well now to.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on March 05, 2009, 12:25:40 PM
I don't think it is going to work this way, toolpath is now horizontal, I think it should be vertical, or do I mis something?
Cees

Hi, Rich

It's pretty close to doing inside boring, Well in rough anyway, Just needs the cutting order reversed in the post.

Tool's are working well now to.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 05, 2009, 12:31:30 PM
Hi Cees,
   It only works in horizontal mode for now, facing will come later....we hope.
This is just a temporary way to cut a profile on the face of the part using ONLY Z axis cuts.
Down and Dirty "Workaround" if you will.
More features to come in the future.
RC

And in Chip's example, Boring would use horizontal "Z" axis cuts but would need to reverse the cut order from outside inward, to inside outward.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 27, 2009, 10:34:09 AM
Hi guy's
Well Finlay got LT to turn a part for me with a little help from Chip it roughed out the part very nice, so Art are you going to do any further  work on it this year also i read your other post on final version how you might license turn this is why i purchased mach in the first place and bought the pro version i know their are others that did the same i hope you and Brian take this into consideration on the final lic i think you have done a great job on LT please don't stop now.

RG's
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 27, 2009, 10:54:26 AM
Hi Dennis:

  No worries on licensing, anyone currently licensed to LazyCam PRO will automatically be licensed for LT.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn - New Version
Post by: ART on March 27, 2009, 11:05:27 AM
Hi Guys:

  Well, this version is a display of whats coming and to give you a chance to play with the added interface items. The post processor will only put out the
first toolpath though, it needs to be modified for the additional paths. Hopefully next version.

Changes:

    This version implement mutiple tools, or multiple depths. The Cut Button is now functional for all types of cuts. If you cut , for example, a profile
with 6mm depth per pass as the first cut, this will quickly pare down the stock. You may now either select a new tool, or cut again using a different
depth per cut, so as per example, we now cut at 1mm depth, only the areas uncut are now processed, so you quickly pare the stock down
further to 1mm tolerances without all the air-time losses. You may use multiple tools or multiple depths in any order. However, since all cuts are
predicated on the previous cut, the delete toolpath button ( !)  will only remove the final cut, which you can then recut, or delete upwards on the tree
one by one.

   TO Simulate the cut in realtime ( showing true feedrate of the tool ), make sure the paths are expanded in the tree ( collapsing a path de-selects it ),
and hit the SIM button, it will show you what the path is calling for and gives a more visual clue about the path to be cut. The speed of the display is the
feedrate you commanded in the tool selection, so its a bit of a visual clue about if you screwed up the feedrate, I will add a way to change that quickly soon.
Clicking the right mouse button will cancel a simulation display. All expanded paths are simulated one by one when SIM is selected. Rapid speed is loosely defined
as 10 times the feedrate, ( just so you dont have to watch all the rapids in slow motion. )


No Profile is yet done, but I suspect you can see its close to being the next job, once the current changes are debugged. The architecture has been modified quite a bit
for multipass-multitool, so play with it, have fun, and let me know what you think. The plan for fiinish hprofile is to have the CUT button do a finish ONLY if the previous CUT
took no material at all, meaning the roughing is now done. Cant get any lazier than that.

Have fun,
Art

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 27, 2009, 11:28:23 AM
Hi Dennis,
I quess the lesson learned on following Lazyturn is that when we are all focused great head way
is made. Unfortunately, as other things pop up and need attention something needs to to put
aside in order to address them. Before you know it, a month can disappear. I can only speak for  
myself and the name for the discontinuity is called CNCSHDD.

Computer Numerical Control Shop Diversion Disorder.  ???

Doctor Phil said there is no cure, sort of like a cold, just needs to take it's course over time.  :-\

BTW, you can catch CNCSDD by breathing the air around the computer or from the shop.  ;)
 ;D
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 27, 2009, 11:39:01 AM
Art
wow thanks for the update i can't say enough about how great it is to finally have a turn program to work with that is not so complex it becomes a year long learning curve to use great work Art thanks again.
Rich
i know what you mean i have that problem sorry to hear there is no cure though it seams i had the disorder and didn't know it thanks to you and Doc Phil for giving it a name maybe someday doctors may find a genetic cure.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 27, 2009, 12:46:04 PM
Art,
Just wanted to mention that any comments you post along with the updated
version, realy helps with the manual update.
 
To all others who have posted in this thread.
Each reply is reviewed for relevance to manual verbage. The comment may or not be included,
may be rewritten, or similar ones are grouped and a summary comment made which happens
to capture the context of discussion. To date a few hundred pages of comments exist.
Some replies just die over time as they are not applicable. So if i can get over CNCSDD
the manual may get an update in the near future.
  
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 27, 2009, 02:39:09 PM
Looking good ART !
 Four items.
1. When selecting 2 different tools for 2 passes, the graphically displayed tool for the last operation is the only one seen from then on, regardless of which profile is selected in the tree. Seems like the selected profile should show it's associated tool.
2. When leaving ample material for the second pass, the material on the end of the part is un-cut buy the 2nd pass.
3. Would also be nice if when selecting a profile from the tree, then clicking CUT, the info would persist for that op.
4. The initial pass, regardless of settings makes no attempt to undercut at the extreme left end of the part. The second pass always undercuts....see illustration. No problem I guess, just different.

Just simulating, no code or actual running.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 27, 2009, 02:47:46 PM
Here is a single pass generated with the same tool and settings as the 2nd cut in the previous post to show no undercut.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 27, 2009, 03:02:04 PM
Thanks Rich:

  Ive already noted the tool change when simulating is wrong, Ill check the undercut status as well on the additional paths.
Lots of small bugs to deal with , the display jumps a bit in sim of additional paths as well, so Ill hopefully have a new version in
a few days to correct these smaller items. Good news is it appears to work pretty well.
  Glad to hear you guys seem to find it lazy, its my main thrust, though I know it causes limitations in its usage in some situations.

Have fun, keep posting the weirdies..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on March 27, 2009, 03:24:15 PM
Hi, Art

Look's Real Good.

RC, I think if you'd increase the "Blue" Stock Dia some more, You'll get the full Profile.

3'rd pic, second pass

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 27, 2009, 04:23:56 PM
Thanks ART,
   COOL stuff.
RC  "RUSS"..................RICH knows more of what he's talking about...LOL


Hi Chip,
  I think i see what you are referring to but that is not what I was attempting to illustrate.
Even by increasing the stock OD or reducing the DOC, the other issues still apply.
  Can you verify that the 2nd pass does not remove any matl. from the face of the part on one of your sample dxf's ?
Thanks Chip.
Lakeland ? ? ? ? ?
I might,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on March 27, 2009, 04:43:38 PM
Hi guys, just some info for you. First just want to say that you to Art for the update as I'm having a blast playing with it a bit. A nice break from all the work lately.. ;)

Ok, I have some good success but one issue that may actually be my fault but wanted to show it anyway, just in case. I get the same undercut (like RC) when it is in fact not drawn that way. It happens on my finish cut only. I tried making the diameter larger as Chip suggested but I still get the undercut as well.

Thanks,
Dave

EDIT: Not sure why my preview of the "undercut" pic isn't showing but it will open when clicked on...  ::)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 27, 2009, 06:47:14 PM
Hi Dave,
  I see in your examples also that the right end or face is not cut in the finish pass either.
Select the "Finish/Rough Cut" alone in the tree and you will see what I mean.
Thanks,
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on March 27, 2009, 07:12:55 PM
Hi, Russ, Dave & All

Well I tried several LH line end type's and none of them stopped the Undercut.

I was hopping maybe a "Point" would do it, What you think about that,  "Art", For an End point and Separator from one tool to another.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on March 27, 2009, 07:17:50 PM
Hi Dave,
  I see in your examples also that the right end or face is not cut in the finish pass either.
Select the "Finish/Rough Cut" alone in the tree and you will see what I mean.
Thanks,
Russ

Hi Chip,

Thanks for looking. Wouldn't that happen because of the shape of the diamond tool tip, or am I missing something else?

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on March 27, 2009, 07:24:16 PM
Hi, Dave

Yes, The tool shape stop's it, But with the Cutoff type tool, "No", Pic 3 a couple post's up.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 27, 2009, 07:34:30 PM
Dave,
 In your example, the angle of the tool may well prevent the finish pass from cutting the end or face. But in the example I used, the tool was angled -22 deg. I should have included that in the post.
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 27, 2009, 07:39:26 PM
The tool can actually be seen i the earlier post. Difficult though in wire frame.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on March 27, 2009, 09:07:39 PM
Ah, I get it now, thank you-

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on March 27, 2009, 11:21:23 PM
Hi, Russ

I think it's, Rough & Finish/Rough and I'm sure I missed part of the Point's as usual.

Edit: In your dxf, It's missing the RH,  Final/Rough pass, I think.

Just little Diff/Bug's or whatever.  ;D

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 27, 2009, 11:56:41 PM
Chip,
 Both pics in #930 are the same part showing the Rough and the Finish paths separately to show where the Finish profile does not cut the finish pass at the end or face of the part. Looks good on your King though...may be a radius thing ..... strange.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on March 28, 2009, 12:21:28 AM
Here is another strangeness.
2 tools, one RH(-22 deg.) and second LH(+22deg.). Actually the same tool and CUT settings, just angled the insert and reversed direction.
1st cut does as expected but the second cut cleans out the corner AND cuts the entire profile removing the selected stock clearance.

I would expect it to only clean out the corner.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on March 28, 2009, 12:40:27 AM
Hi, Russ

The example of your Quick-disconnect I used was modified by me and  I tried several way's/end-point's.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 28, 2009, 02:18:38 AM
Art,
A few minor comments,
1.View menu and status bar -The zoom out and zoom in are reversed in View tool box and also the
                                  associated prompts you get in the status bar.
2.Options menu - if the start Z is a positive value, a scale is not provided in the graphics area post importing a file.
3.When using the keyboard - ALT key will not highlight / underline the Options, Debug, and  Toolpaths
                                         - ALT is also use for changing the crosshair to windows default pointer ( no 
                                           problem but just wanted to mention this )
4.LazyTurn Project flyout - if you  close it, How do you bring it back without going out of and back into Lazyturn?
5.Do you have a listing of which Ctrl, Alt, and other keys combinations are intended to be functional in LazyTurn?
   
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on March 28, 2009, 04:10:34 AM
Hi, Art

Hears a Test AA.dxf that brings out some issues, I know it's early on in your cleanup of the new routines. So take a look at if you get a chance.

This is about the same as figuring out the final move's on a Rubik's Cube's last Layer, Thanks for giving us a Pre-view of things to follow.

Edit: replaced the AA file it had an error at Z0.0 start of .0089.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on March 29, 2009, 04:25:15 AM
strange?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on March 29, 2009, 05:55:55 AM
Hi Zeeschuim

Send your DXF , maybe there is something wrong with it.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on March 29, 2009, 07:01:53 AM
hoi Willem
Hoe is het?
Hereby the dxf.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on March 29, 2009, 08:21:10 AM
Hi zeeschuim,

When showing the "strange" things, possibly give your tool info and procedure as that would help us to know what's causing the strange occurances or at least it gives Art some food for thought  ;)

Thanks!
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on March 29, 2009, 09:28:57 AM
Hi zeeschuim,

I did see at least one thing that may be upsetting the toolpath in your dxf.

Please see the screenshot below at the end of the ball.

While I'm not a pro, this does not look like it would set up right in Lturn.

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on March 29, 2009, 09:54:47 AM
Yep, thats it,
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on March 29, 2009, 10:39:17 AM
Hi Zeeschuim

Those guys are way ahead of me.
Before I could react the problem is already solfed.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 31, 2009, 03:00:17 PM
Hi All,
I am attaching a rather simplle dxf file which is being used for a section
in the manual. Each and every input, setting, etc in Lazyturn is being tested against it.
I would say it's a beginners file but provides for easy checking of gouging, application of
different tools etc.
If you guys could include it as one of you standard test files and see if anything goes
wrong would appreciate it.

Also attached is a few sections of the manual.

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 01, 2009, 01:06:30 AM
Hi Art

I want to post some issue's I'm finding, But have never really asked you what format you'd prefer, MM, INCH, RAD, DIA, Modes ?

Just looking for what will Help the Most and cause less confusion & conversion.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 01, 2009, 02:17:43 AM
Hi, Art

Hears a couple small one's, Could you turn Off the auto split view after every "Cut" that's generated ?

When you change the Stock Diameter value the  Blue marker changes, But the value box freezes and doesn't reset till you click on Start Z or Set Z Offset marker and an "OK" fixes it.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 01, 2009, 09:12:46 AM
Chip:

 Thx, Ill fix up the arrow functions. I have no real preference for rad/dia/mm/inch , all of them in the end need to work so any pointers of errors are fine
in any mode. A new version is close to being ready and Ive changed a bit of the functions, and have made the simulation variable speed forward and backwards
so one can see how the tool will move around.
  Ill kill the autosplit and make it work simply on the button now that I dont need the removal anymore in diagnostics.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 01, 2009, 11:06:03 AM
Hi Guys:

 Havent fixed the arrow functions yet, but heres an interim April fools day release of the current code.
The simulation simulates any selected toolpath on the tree, and allows for the Feedrate to be modified to see its effect.
Pressing SET on the simulator will set a new feedrate and/or spindle speed if entered. If you have varyed the feedrate
for the simulation, and press set, the new feedrate will be entered in that toolpath. The rdering of the path has been modified but
still needs work as the secndary paths can do a bit of air time, but they are better clustered than before.

  The undercut issue still needs more investigation, its not so much an error as a matter of how the additional material left/cutting
algorith does its job to ensire as little is cut as possible, ironically this makes it cut more in the case of overcuts.. but its all a function of the
math that is used to try to make the path as optimal as possible, I havent seen any real issues with gouging the stock so thats an upside.

  Still no post output of secondary paths, I hope to do that shortly now that the clustering is better than before.


Have fun..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 01, 2009, 03:06:42 PM
Hi, Art

This is what I get with a Cutoff Type Tool, The Sim is working nice.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 02, 2009, 06:54:26 PM
Hi, Art

In my previous post, Is the Rough pass not subtracting the Stock Clearance value causing the Lt hand over run. ?

Also could it be the data is being read by Finish/Rough pass is in reverse order somehow and needs to be flipped. ?

Thanks for adjusting the split view function, It's a nice feature just slow with bigger files.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 02, 2009, 08:16:00 PM
Chip:

 I take it both passes used different clearances? Or where they identical?

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 03, 2009, 01:27:11 AM
Hi, Art

Yes, Different clearances used, See Pic's.

Edit: Also in this ver the multi-Finish/Rough pass is not working now as described on page 92 post 916, It was mostly working in last version, last pic.

But all in all it's Looking Good,  Very Good  :D

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 03, 2009, 09:23:45 AM
Hi Chip:

 When you say "Not working as described.. " how so?

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 03, 2009, 09:40:05 AM
Chip,
Guessing  your about to say, that after you have reached a rough with no more stock to be removed,
and if you do another after the second one, no stock or volume should be removed????
You should get a message saying that no more material needs to be removed and that it's ready
for a finish cut.
 
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 03, 2009, 10:02:50 AM
Hi:

 Yup, if as Rich described thats the problem its just due to me gettig ready for a finish pass algorithm, though Im still considering exactly how to do that best.
The rest of the discussions seem to be more about HOW material is removed on the secondary ro further passes. Allot of it has to do with the way the remaining
stock is calculated. The first pass is allowed to remove as much as it can, after that, the passes incrementally remove from a database of material left over, so the rules
are completely different in terms of what gets removed, so overhangs and underhangs may work differently from the first passes methods.

  Im still playing and thinking about hwo to best do a final pass, its allot more complicated than the rest of what Im doing. Just how to do a finish pass that is safe no
matter what the user has done previously is the holdup. The material left databasedoes help with letting me know the limitations of what to removed, but Im still
a bit flumoxxed in terms of how to do it all safely and most efficiently. A bit more thought needs to be done on my end.

 Im pretty happy so far though, I think a bit more tinkering with leftover limits will make the toolpatsh better, though I thnk there pretty close now in terms
of allowing multiple tools to do their job. We've come a long way this winter, and as spring starts to set in, I d liek to get at least a rudimentary finish pass going before
the summer sets in , I wont stop during the summer, but as you all know I slow drastically as things pop up to do in my personal life more and more in the summer.

 Youve all be great in testing and its really a testament to you that we've come this far. Id be interested in any experiences actually cutting any of these toolpaths,
what you had to modify and what looks like failure vs success. I suspect if I add a finish pass and let you post all the paths, that it will be time to remove Turning from
LazyCam and call the profiling in it replaced by LazyTurn, which seems much safer and easier to use than LazyCam's turn section at any rate.

Thx
Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 03, 2009, 02:02:44 PM
Art,
Regarding how it has come overall is an understatement. Didn't really realize it untli  I started re-working the manual and then it dawned on me that's it was a re-write. A lot of problems have gone a way, improved graphics, etc.. It was interesting to see that you could slow down
the simlulation and then if you wish stop it and just zoom in and and actually see whats left, measure it  / whatever. I was thinking of tryng it out and then taking a magnified picture of the part and compare just for kicks. 
Thanks for the efforts!

I was going to do some actual cutting with code from LazyTurn but the finish pass stiffled that.
Don't think you should get that hung up on the finish pass. i say that since, i would probably do
two finish passess anyway based on what was left. Maybe even three depending on the part. The second finish cut would remove  1 to five thousands. I would let the first one just get rid of the nooks and crannies.  I haven't gone in on a whole bunch of different files to see what what kinds of "nooks and crannies" for the finish pass are left from the rough finish passes.

For example, using a round tipped tool, i would deliberately change the depth to 1/2 the  preceding depth. This way the big bumps left by a round tool should be much more even.
Or possibly change to a different type tool to get rid of them.
 
Then it's a matter of using whatever number of profile / finish passes to get to where i want to be.
 
So yes if you gave the single profile, and could post, would start actualy doing some cutting.

Face it, it's more fun than zooming in looking over a whole bunch of files.  ;)


RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 03, 2009, 05:21:37 PM
Hi, Art

Pic 1, Overrun on LH side, Is it caused by Stock Clearance value not being subtracted from "Z" cut value properly. ?

Pic 2, LH Under Cut,  Stock Clearance should be around 1.5 on Scale/ruler in next post pic 1  ?

Pic 3, Looks Good except for issue caused by Stock Clearance in Pic2 ?

Dennis has cut some profile cut's with out much issue.

Hears the dxf I'm using, Maybe I'm Confused.

Edit: See my next post, page 97, Reply 960 and LH Under Cut issue.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 03, 2009, 06:33:33 PM
More info., See my previous post, page 96, Reply 959

Pic 1, Ruler value, Stock Clearance  error (pic 2 reply 959

Pic 2, RH stock removal missing for 2'nd pass. ?

Maybe even the Last final/rough should have the RH end cut. ?

You get 1000 word's for pic's  ???

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 03, 2009, 08:00:26 PM
Art,
Using a groove tool to do three progressive paths.
     PICTURE                                                        COMMENT
1. 60_COMMENT_HCIR_1........ ROUGH - Inconsitant clear around profile. Red is what should have been included?
2. 60_COMMENT_HCIR_2 ....... FINISH / ROUGH - Extends Z travel?. Stll missing in between? No clear left on a number of places?
3. 60_COMMENT_HCIR_3 ....... FINISH / ROUGH - Tool width was cut in half. Still missing in between? And missing removal of some material?

Now i will try a different tool.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 03, 2009, 08:54:14 PM
Art,
Using a BUTTON tool to do two progressive paths.
     PICTURE                                                        COMMENT
1. 61_COMMENT_HCIR_1........ ROUGH - extends Z travel. Clearance looks ok except for round the hubs
2. 61_COMMENT_HCIR_2 ....... FINISH / ROUGH - Cutting to the centerline? notice the path generated but no volume removed
    even though total volume changed

Looks like the button is doing a better job than the groove. Similar and different problems.
Ok try another one.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 03, 2009, 09:32:50 PM
Art,
Using a TRIANGLE and then a BUTTON tool to do two progressive paths.
     PICTURE                                                        COMMENT
1. 62_COMMENT_HCIR_1........ ROUGH -looks fine, no gouging
2. 62_COMMENT_HCIR_2 ....... FINISH / ROUGH -  path into center line generated and a small piece missed even though
   it would have been picked up with the finish pass.
3. Just a magnified view of 1 &2
   
Ok try another one.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 03, 2009, 10:15:21 PM
Art,
Just something a little different here to test the point tools stuff on a small piece.
The dxf file posted in reply #946 was shrunk to 1/10 it's size so diameter is only 0.1".
You know i had to do one of these!  ;)
     PICTURE                                                        COMMENT
1. 63_COMMENT_HCIR_1........ ROUGH -looks fine
2. 63_COMMENT_HCIR_2 ....... FINISH / ROUGH -  Other than the silly 0.001 extra removed
    is fine and left the tool on for size comparison.
3. Just some info on the tool bit.
   
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 03, 2009, 11:13:13 PM
Hi Guys:

  I have some testing to do for some of this, but the LH side I can explain. Imagine the whole piece, left to right is first expanded by the clearance, so it grows , this is done to make to tool cut
only to the clearance + Tool radius to the part. But the LH side expands to the left when this is done as well as the rigth expanding to the right. So the initial rough pass tries to cut to the expanded left side, which makes it cut further. This is actually helpfull if th etool has to step to the right each pass ( on the left hand side..). It means if a profile is say 100mm long, the initial ough can be say 120mm after expanding the profile. ( Imagine a tool offset comp in mill applied to the profile.. ).

  Its hard to explain what I mean, Ill see abotu showing you the actual usage of the subtraction and clipping masks to make it clearer..

 Is that dxf from Chips example posted? I think I need to run that, the offset is definitely wrong, looks way short..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 03, 2009, 11:33:05 PM
Hi, Art

The one on bottom of page 96 "Test 1 A.dxf" is it for last few prev post's.

Well I think I've figured it out, Maybe, Whooo Noowssss.

With the cutoff Type tool, First Rough Pass seems fine,

2'nd Rough Pass is missing the Stock Clearance value's being added to the tool width, I'm thinking

If I double the Tool Width for 2'nd rough, Then there's material remaining for a 3'd finer pass.

Really think the Rough's should be all like the first one and LH undercut's that show up shouldn't be there for 2'nd & 3'rd rough.

The stock size is large to allow for exaggerated cut's for clarity Only. New dxf below.

Thanks, Chip
 

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 04, 2009, 07:22:52 AM
ART,
Dont't think you have to add any more graphics for path add lenghts on either side.
The display shows it and simulation will confirm all paths. At most the scale bar could expand
with no divisions indicating unrequested length has been added in the cutting as compared
to the DXF of the profile or just a note in the project information.

The real concern is the cutting down to X=0 / "cutting off the piece" which seems to
be generated on the second rough finish. Also the tool NOT cutting away material
in the undercuts when you would expect it to.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 04, 2009, 08:51:34 AM
Chip:

 Thx, I think your right, Ill look into why. I hadnt noticed because I dont offset that way myself. In the end ,
while I think the depth per pass shoudl be less on each path, the clearance shoudl stay the same really, that saves the most time.
It doesnt make sense to me to have a 1" offset for roughing, then a  .5 for next rough..etc.. I woudl think the most efficient is to
have the clearance the same for all passes up to the finish. That will statistically cut the time of cutting to its minimum. Though your
method does make better and easier to read displays. :)

Rich: thx..noted.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on April 04, 2009, 10:10:26 AM
Hi Art,

Just wanted to show you a bit of actual cutting this morning. It was of a part I showed previously in this thread and it worked out great. As you can see I made the passes pretty small so that it was just take some "cleaning up" to finish. I'll show the finished part another time when I get it done but couldn't wait to post a couple of pics for you.

The toolpath seemed to follow perfectly but I did have some chatter where the side of my toolbit rubbed the shoulder of the material which I knew it would because of my drawing.

For reference, the part is just under 1/2" X 1.312 long and completed on a converted Taig Micro-Lathe.

Again, thank you for helping me (and everyone) get this far along.

Dave

(http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5767.0;attach=14057;image)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 10:53:24 AM
Hi ART and All,
 Here is another approach. I used RICH's example DXF but stretched it a bit to allow the tooling to fit in the recesses well.
Using only 1 tool and changing ONLY the insert angle and feed direction and leaving all cut values the same, in an attempt to simply rough in the RH dir then clean up the remainder in the LH dir.
The only way I can get it to work is to change the Tip Rad. That seems to affect alot about the second pass. .015" for first pass, .030for second and it's good.

Then...after running and deleting multiple 2nd passes....015 worked fine. Shut down and restart and all is whaky again.

This all by changing Insert angle, cut dir. and tip rad. ....nothing else.
Might be a clue ?
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 10:59:53 AM
And here is the dxf, tool settings and another pic.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 04, 2009, 11:02:13 AM
Hi:

 Excellent! Thanks for the photos, nice to see the translation from drawing to part.
I suspect it will cut much better with a roughing , then a fine, then a finish( when I figure that one out! :) )

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 04, 2009, 11:05:03 AM
Hi:


  I think, when displaying a toolpath, I need to show the PREVIOUS stock remaining, it will make it much clearer as to why the differences above.
The program will do the secondary passes as it can fit the selected tool into the remaining stock.. pics will make it clearer..and may show trouble better.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 11:15:45 AM
ART, Please explain. How will showing the PREVIOUS material explain why some tip rads. will part the material off, some will over cut previously cut profile areas and some will do OK ?
This is a pic of the first pass from the earlier post.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 11:20:26 AM
Oh ART...also, when in SIM, ALL paths open in the tree. Even if only 1 is selected.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 04, 2009, 02:29:46 PM
Its hard to explain in words real well. The left overcut can be explained in terms of the Remaining material calculator.. but I really need to come up with a way of showing you why a cut occurs instead of just the cut that occured. It may help explain why something is done. Im not saying its right, just that showing the why's may help explain and find solutions. The left hand overcut for example can easily be understood if one understands the process involved..

Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 04, 2009, 03:17:25 PM
Hi, Art

I was only using the different cut values and offset's to show the Differences in the Rough passes.

Thanks for taking a look at it.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 04, 2009, 06:06:49 PM
ART,
Just an attempt on a way to clarifying the tool to the path.....
Would it be helpfull to have a "prelude tool view" which would show the cut without generating a pass? The prelude view would show the tool based on the tool inputs against a straight line, corner, and say min radius. That "view" would tell me that what input won't work too well before clicking OK in the tool dialog. In fact it could be right along with the tool picture. Maybe appear again in the rough profile dialog box but this time
including the depth cut

Picture this one based on the definiton:
 Use Tip Center  - when selected  will discriminate between using Mach3's offset registers with compensation, or just to create the code as pre-compensated using the tip radius as that compensation from tip center. Consult Mach3 manual for use of offsets.
Then picture the flank cut depth added into the above but only now rotated on some angle.

See attached pictures.
Make any sense???????

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 06:17:28 PM
Thank you Art for the explanation. That's deep enough for me. I am just assuming that it will eventually perform as I am attempting.
IE:  RH rough to CUT parameters specified....LH rough ONLY the remaining material to the same clearance using the same CUT settings and the same tool only angled the other way.

Thanks again,
Russ
Title: Re: Hard disk crash
Post by: N4NV on April 04, 2009, 06:20:58 PM
I had a hard disk crash and lost all of my Mach directory (I have better back up now).  When I try to run the exe file in the lazyturn zip, I get the message that the file LvKrn15u.dll is missing and I need to re-install.  Any suggestions?

Thanks

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 04, 2009, 06:52:13 PM
To All,
You can get a lot out of the simulation when looking for something just need to enlarge  the view and start
the movie.
See attached as this is not apparent by just looking at the path lines.

RICH

MODIFIED:
DAHHHH..... ! hold on here, as what i say can't be right for that line. There is a problem in the paths that are displayed.
Didn't notice it until I looked at the clearance anad path lines on the rest of the picture.
Too focused......time for a BEER!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 07:09:08 PM
Vince,
 are you also running this ?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on April 04, 2009, 07:14:57 PM
I am running the lazycam 3.00.2, but I don't see lazycam 3.00.2 update.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 07:19:09 PM
 :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 07:23:52 PM
Rich,
   Curious...what tool and CUT settings did you use in your last post.
35 deg Diamond is OK on mine.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on April 04, 2009, 07:33:57 PM
Overloaded, I downloaded the Lazycam update before you even posted.  I installed it and now when I run LazyCam it says I am running version 3.00.  When I run the Lazyturn exe file, I still get the same error.  I rebooted the computer and it still does it.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 04, 2009, 07:54:10 PM
RC,
TOOL INFO:
INSCRIBED CIRCLE=.76
UNCHECKED  FOR  USE TIP CENTER
TIP RADIUS=.016
FLANK CUT DEPTH=.379

CUT INFO:
CLEAR=0
STOCK CLR=.05
DEPTH / PASS = .05

What does your left side look like as that one has a radius in it and you would
get what your showing in your post #985.

Attached is the complete pic.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 04, 2009, 08:03:36 PM
Vince,
I would recomend for Lazyturn that you run it iindependantly out of it's owne directory.
Use Mach to install Lazycam... only.... to say VinceLazyturn , then do the LazyCam update to that directory, then replace the exec with Art's latest version.

This way you won't affect the main MACH3 installation.

RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 04, 2009, 08:32:28 PM
RC,
If you change the tool flank depth, stock clearance and depth per pass, from what i just listed,  I can get the paths to come out to what you show in reply 985.

That's why i posted the stuff about a preview of the tool to say a corner or straight line.
This way you don't need to keep making runs to see the effect, if that makes sense.

Although LazyTurn is easy , i believe most of the problems by users will be with the tools they
create. Just haven't figured out how to make it easy in the manual but working on it. 
 
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: N4NV on April 04, 2009, 08:43:22 PM
I found the problem.  When I was extracting the program from the compressed file, it was not putting it in the correct directory.  All is well now.  Thanks for the help.

Vince
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 10:09:18 PM
Rich,
 I used:
Pull Clr .05
Stk Clr .01
DPP    .05

IC         .375
T Rad.   .015
I typically keep the flank depth to 1 to 2 times the DPP.
I wouldn't write this part of the manual yet, lol ..it has a ways to go IMO.
Thanks Rich,
RC
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on April 04, 2009, 10:35:33 PM
OK...ONE more post and I swear, I'll sit back and watch as to not be a stumbling block to progress. :)
For whatever reason, this DXF and configuration works PERFECTLY ! But due to the internals, I have no idea why.

35 diamond tool, -22 for RH, +22 for LH turning.
IC            1
TR           .125
Flank CD   .4

Pullout Clr  .05
Stk Clr       .01
DPP          .2

BEAUTIFUL

I guess it IS all in the tools RICH. But this is a weird tool, the other I tried were more standard off the shelf type and sizes.
Just wanted to share some GOOD success,
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 05, 2009, 12:21:06 AM
Rich:
 
  That one where you draw "Actual Tool Radius" the circle shouldnt be any larger than the tool tip, the tool is drawn using actual tool radius..

Your right, the shape is the reuslt of the final pass..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 05, 2009, 10:06:24 PM
ART,
I was able to do this in three rough cuts earlier.  :)

But now, on the second cut it adds the cut to the center line. It seems like it added the volume from the left side cut to the center line.
But with only two cuts and using the 35deg tool the remaining volume is uncut, must be there, and there
should be a volume yete to be removed.

So:  ;)
1 Cut being added on second rough which "creates a volume" that "fools " the calculator into thinking all
   removed, but actualy that is not true.
2.Display can be very misleading. 

BTW, i tought you may be able to start at the left end but that didn't work by using the Z pentagon.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 05, 2009, 10:37:31 PM
Hi, Rich

Use the 35 deg tool in Center mode first, Then LH & RH tools.

Doesn't seem to bother anyone that the RH tool part's off the work with Rough pass, I Guess.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 05, 2009, 10:52:34 PM
Art,
Maybe this will help in tracking down the problem.  ???

I did two tries at creating paths.
The first changed how the second rough pass was created and notice that the line
to the center is not done and the unexpected which is left. I was then able to do the third rough to clean it up more.

Deleted the first try roughs and tried again.
It did the same thing as in reply #994.

The L and R tools were the same and so were the cuts.
Hope this helps!

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 05, 2009, 11:01:56 PM
Hey Chip,
Bothers me a lot!  :(
But as shown above it can work, just need to find the combination to the safe.  ;)
Some how the combination changes.  ??? Kremlin's........where are they?  :-X
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 05, 2009, 11:14:07 PM
Hi, Rich

I've pretty much tried all those The only one that almost get's it is Center, LH then RH Tool.

It'3 Gremlin's, I know what you mean for sure, Making it Lazy.isn't Easy at All.

Chip 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 05, 2009, 11:16:59 PM
Hey Chip,
Just in case you missed an earlier post.
If you hold the following keys down all at once,
APRILFOLSD, you'll get a finsh pass as attached.   :) 
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 05, 2009, 11:53:14 PM
Hi, Rich

Or this with LazyCam.

N5 G80
N10 G0  X0.0000  Z0.0000
N15 M3
N20 G1  X0.2500   F60.00
N25  X0.5000  Z-0.2500 
N30  Z-0.5000 
N35  X0.7500   
N40 G3  X1.0000  Z-0.7500  I0.0000  k-0.2500
N45 G1  Z-1.0000 
N50  X0.5000   
N55  Z-1.3749 
N60 G2  X0.6250  Z-1.4999  I0.1250  k0.0000
N65 G1  X1.0000  Z-1.5000 
N70  Z-1.7500 
N75 G3  X0.7500  Z-2.0000  I-0.2500  k0.0000
N80 G1  X0.6250   
N85 G2  X0.5000  Z-2.1250  I0.0000  k-0.1250
N90 G1  Z-2.5000 
N95  X1.0000  ;X0.0000 mod 
N100 M30

Chip  :D ;D ??? >:D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 06, 2009, 12:32:28 AM
Chip,
Supprise, Supprise, Supprise!

You are...... Lazyturn reply #1000......, and as such, you are going to need
the following tools to actually cut the posted profile. Here they are!

That's not all, Chip,
You also get a drawing so you can grind them properly. Yes, this one of a kind
colored drawing can be used over and over again and will be a keepsake
treasure you can hand down for generations.

Congradulations # 1000,

RICH    :) ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 06, 2009, 12:38:49 AM
Hi, Rich

Wooo  ;D Hooo  :D, I'll send you my address.

Edit: Ooo I read it Just Fine, Big print Giv-Ith, nobody reads the fine Print.

Ask "Art" about that, Something about, "First Born"

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 06, 2009, 12:53:40 AM
Gee's Chip,
You didn't read the fine print on the small tool.
"Postage is not provided and the tools are meant to be ground by you and per the drawing. Also, "No warranties are expressed or implied" by this thread.

Once again congradulations #1000.
 ???


 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 06, 2009, 10:45:03 AM
Art,
In reply #1001 i drew an insert. Note the Inscribed Circle and attached is what i put in the manual shown
in attached pic.

Is the info correct?

Rich
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 06, 2009, 11:48:58 AM
Atually, the two descriptions shoudl be identical.. the circle shoudl be inside..

Ill check it out.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: marcel beaudry on April 06, 2009, 08:30:53 PM
Hello Chip
If you want you could make that part with a grooving tool.I used to make similar part like yours that where cover with stellite very hard and abrasive cut them with a grooving tool .grooving tool do not bend that much but you must cut the radius last 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 07, 2009, 01:09:03 AM
Hi, Marcel

Yes I've used a cut-off/grooving tool quite often, Were just going through roughing using multiple tool's and where it's missing the roughing passes.

Have you looked over LazyTurn posts, It's coming along nice I think.

Got that square cube on Friday, Now that is some kinda Nice Work Your Doing, Thanks  for sharing it with me, Finding a special spot for it.  :D

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: marcel beaudry on April 07, 2009, 01:14:39 AM
I use it on a memory stick it get' s people talking.

Thanks a lot for your help and conversations

Marcel
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on April 12, 2009, 02:10:03 PM
a Tribute to Art and his work
http://www.olgerstimmerwerk.nl/korvijnagel.wmv (http://www.olgerstimmerwerk.nl/korvijnagel.wmv)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on April 12, 2009, 02:19:04 PM
Hi Zeeschuim

Nice video.

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on April 12, 2009, 02:27:12 PM
Zeeschuim, great video but would you please tell me more about your South Bend conversion?

Do you have a build thread on it somewhere? I would love to know more - :)

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 12, 2009, 02:28:59 PM
Thanks for the video.. I love that.

 I have solved many issues with LTurn for the next version, but it'll be a little hwile yet, Im pulled off to soem MAch3 work for a few days.. :)

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zeeschuim on April 12, 2009, 03:06:57 PM
there is a number on the bed,  I put this number on the site from South Bend and it told me it was build in 1936 and a 9 A
the conversion was quit simple, I have attached on the backside of the ( apron ???) a longer axe  for the X and the Z motor is on the banjo from the gear train.
I will make some photo's, that will explain more than my poor English ???
thanks,
Cees
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 13, 2009, 07:16:39 PM
Hi Guys
  Working on a new profile i can only get the front taper to rough and the first part of the shoulder no matter what tool i use tried a cut off tool same thing any ideas thanks in advance.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 14, 2009, 10:31:41 AM
Hi Guys
My Bad i played with the profile and bingo mach displayed it correctly tried to go back to what happened and i can't get it to do it again so it may be that it was a graphic hickup don't know.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 14, 2009, 10:12:01 PM
Dennis,
Gald it worked for you as it worked here and thanks for the file.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 15, 2009, 09:36:00 AM
Hi Guys:

  Ive been real busy lately on Driver issues and trying to make Mach3's driver better,
but I have had time to take care of several LTurn issues. Im left with the task of reordering the
cut lines of the secondary toolpaths before I can post them. But heres a version with several things fixed.
  The Profile offsets now work between cuts, and youll notice it no longer cuts off the right of left sides
on secondary cuts.

Thx, Have fun,

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 15, 2009, 10:28:54 AM
Hi Art
Thanks for the updated version of LT i really am looking forward to having just one piece of software i can use for turning. Hey I thought you said you were retired can't get enough huh.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 15, 2009, 02:52:50 PM
Hi, Art

Very Nice, Hears a pic of a 3 pass Rough, Do you have plans for additional passes (2nd & 3rd) on the right end of the profile ?

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 15, 2009, 03:02:58 PM
:) Just cant help myself..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jaja on April 15, 2009, 04:50:30 PM
Although i dint join the discussions,,, i read it all, and have great respect for all the work and time all of you invest in Lazy turn.
As soon as my lathe is working, i will be using/ testing lazy turn.
Thanks for all the work you have been doing.

greetings jaja
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 23, 2009, 10:39:01 AM
Hi Art
Just wondering if we might see the final pass version for LT before you take your summer break till next year thanks for the doing what you have so far.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 23, 2009, 10:53:17 AM
Dennis:

  Its possible, I just got hijacked a bit on other code.. and Im still ruminating on cut order for the secondary passes..
I shoudl be done other work soon..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 23, 2009, 01:27:22 PM
Hi Art
Thanks for the reply do you need the guy's and me to mount a rescue just let me know and i can mount up a posse to come and get you.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on April 23, 2009, 03:10:09 PM
Hmmmmm......interesting thought Dennis, but I'm thinking bribery would be better suited for this situation  ;)  :D

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 23, 2009, 04:04:48 PM
LOL, with over 38000 views on this topic.. Im thinking a lot of people feel the same way.

 Seriously, I hope to drive myself to the secondary sorting next week.. and if that works all thats left is a finish pass.
Not that any of that is easy, but at least theres light in the tunnel down there somewhere..

 Im getting a few letters asking when it will be available, some OEM's seems to want it for lathe work, but it'll be a couple
months yet till completion I think.. Next year we'll talk facing and boring maybe..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on April 23, 2009, 04:24:01 PM
Good to hear you have the OEM's interested, and as you know, even us little guys appreciate everything you do here, Art -  :)

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 23, 2009, 04:49:42 PM
HI Dave:

  Oh, it isnt important.. If OEM's get interested..fine.. but I still write the stuff for us little guys..
I always went under the theory of  "If you build it..they will come. ) LOL

Art
\
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 23, 2009, 07:23:51 PM
Art
That's why i am here you built  it and i came having trouble waiting though, sure you don't us to come up there and get you out?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 23, 2009, 11:23:38 PM
Is it possible to get LazyTurn now? I just completed my lathe and this would sure be great to have.

Thanks much,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 24, 2009, 01:34:05 PM
Hi, Kerry

Make a copy of the LazyCam 3.00.2.exe you currently using/have in C:\Mach3 folder, The "update" has a older version in it, Don't now why.

You can copy it back in and Re Name it after you install the Up Date.

Download the latest ver LazyTurn, On page 102, post 1017, Un-Zip it and install the LazyTurn.exe file into C:\Mach3, You need to install the updated, LazyCam 3.00.2 Update also from Download's above.

You may need the, ".net 2.0 update" from Microsoft to prevent an error at start up also. Hears a link to it.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=0856EACB-4362-4B0D-8EDD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en

Hope this Helps, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 24, 2009, 11:47:28 PM
Yes it does help Chip, thank you. I have it installed, but now I am wondering if there is documentation available on how to use LazyTurn?

Thanks again,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on April 25, 2009, 12:33:04 AM
Hi, Kerry

In the Members Doc's section theirs a manual Rich has been working on in PDF format and lot's of info hear.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.0.html

Edit: Hears a little template to look at, Where to layout your DXF's

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 25, 2009, 09:50:52 AM
Hi Kerry,
Suggest you print out and read what is posted in the Members Doc.
Then download both the files which i posted in Reply #946.
They represent "partial" update to the LAZYTURN manual section as of 3/28/09.
I say partial, as it's the start of a total re-write reflecting a lot of changes since rev 2
was posted. The manual, inclusive of the Appendix's , basicaly covers all the
comments made in this thread ( a couple hundred pages ).

The manual is very dynamic as it needs to change as Lazyturn develops, but for the most part,
it will bring you up to speed.

If you want to try out LazyTurn, try out the DXF posted in reply #946 as it's the one which i am using
in the manual.  Of course you can go to Appendix "D" and view same 50 files posted in this thread and
fool with those, or make your owne profile.

Have fun,
RICH

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: shegan on May 17, 2009, 01:09:52 PM
noob here.
I'm trying to install lazyturn and lazy cam. 
have successfully downloaded and installed mach3 (so cool)
have downloaded and successfully installed dotnetfx from microsoft. 
have downloaded lazyturn.zip and uncompressed to new folder. 
Cant download lazycam 3.0.2 update because link seems to be broken - o/s asking if the file has been moved or renamed. 
the lazycaminstall.exe that is in my mach3 folder will not start giving the error message of 'windows cannot access the specified device, path or file' and suggests that I may not have the right permissions (wierd}
Cant install the double clicking on lazyturn icon gives error message of missing dll, which I guessed is in lazycam, which I can't seem to get installed. 
I'm stuck.  Can anyone point me in the right direction? 
toshiba laptop, windows xpsp2 (I think) runs fine.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on May 17, 2009, 09:00:08 PM
Hi, Shegan

Just down loaded both files, Link seems fine hear.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 17, 2009, 09:22:07 PM
Hi Guys:

  Havent forgotten you, Im almost ready with next version.. Im still working on optimising the secondary toolpaths...

(Just so you know Im still alive. :) )

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on May 17, 2009, 09:35:36 PM
Hi, Art

Thanks for the update.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 17, 2009, 09:53:30 PM
Hi Sheghan,
No problem with the link here.
Once you have installed LazyCam, the file from  LazyTurn.zip needs to be copied over to the folder you installed LazyCam in.
You should be good to go.

PS: My preference is to install another version of Lazycam to a different directory IE; call that directory
Lazyturn Testing. Lazyturn can be run standalone. Not to confuse, just my preference for now, as we are
still testing.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 17, 2009, 09:57:12 PM
Hi Art,
We keep a watchfull eye  ;) on this thread. Ready to go when you are.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: shegan on May 17, 2009, 10:06:45 PM
thank you for checking on the ftp - I have the update file now which I will save for later once I get some bugs worked out.
I uninstalled mach 3 and then reinstalled it making sure to check the box for lazycam at the beginning of the install process.  When I click on lazycam from the file drop down menu, I get a alert stating "option package missing".  Any suggestions?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 17, 2009, 10:19:02 PM
shegan,
Yes, when in MACH3 Turn or Mill, LazyCam should start out of the pulldown menu File>LazyCam.....
when clicked on. Try rebooting your PC.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 19, 2009, 10:02:28 AM
Hi Guys:

  New version of LazyTurn.

  This version still doesnt post secondary toolpaths, but it does order them and create them. If they seem OK, Ill add posting for them.
The ordering may appear strange at times, this is because some path segments require previous segments to run first as they remove material
on top of the next segment to cut. This ordering is somewhat complex to do. I still need to better optimise when a full pullout to start X is
required, at the moment it simply ALWAYS pulls back to start X to move to the start of the next group of cuts. It will , however, attempt to
minimize motion by doign as many path segements as it can in a group of segments. ( This is hard to explain but you'll see what I mean while
playing with it. Simulate, ( if you close rough path and highlight secondary paths ) will show the order that the cut will happen in.

  I will continue to optimise the ordering and pullout sequences whiel you test this out. If it does work, even if it isnt fully optimised, Ill
add posting of the finish/rough passes so all that will be left ios optimising motion, and finally.. the finish pass.

  This version respects the offset from stockproperly, so the theory is you gouge out as much a spossibel with the initial cut with a hefty
stock offset, ( thyis will remove the max material with minimal motion ), then you reduce the stock offset and perhaps the depth per pass,
and do as many fin/rgh passes as you like. When no more material can be removed with a fin/rgh pass with a set tool, then the finsh pass
will be allowed and the cut button will do the finish pass. ( Not yet implemented for finish pass mind you.. ).

  We're gettign close to the finish pass, just not quite there yet, but the fin/rgh passes appear to be doign as they should, once I stop
the full pullout they will be pretty efficicent at minimizing motion while removing the material as efficiently as they can.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 19, 2009, 05:26:14 PM
Hi Art,
A few comments and questions in the pics. I need to do more testing.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 19, 2009, 10:05:17 PM
Rich:

 Nope, should do multiple tools.

 Cant seem to duplicate the missing toolpath, can you post the tools used on that dxf..

thx

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 20, 2009, 01:10:22 AM
ART,
The DXF file can be found in the Members Docs, here is the link:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.msg73603.html#msg73603

Attached pics 1 & 2 are tool info and cuts info.
Note that if you do them individualy the paths are created as shown in pic #3.

If you use L for a rough, R for a finish/rough, and then, C for a finish/rough you get what is shown
in reply #1044. If these paths are not correct, then doing another refined cut ( to prepare for a finishing cut / not available yet )
will not be correct. At least on my end.  ;) 

I believe this or a similar problem existed before, not to long ago.
MODIFIED: SIMILAR PROBLEM SEE PAGE 100, REPLY #996,#997,#998  :)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 20, 2009, 09:33:52 AM
Rich:

 Thx for the report. I had a < when I needed a <= .. :) ,
so a group was lost on ordering. This version fixes that..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on May 20, 2009, 01:17:08 PM
Hi, Art

Now that seems to be working Nice !!

One question on the second picture, Second and third pass on Right end missing.

Edit: I think on second look the third pic is fine no collision  ;D

But the forth pic misses rt end cut on second pass

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on May 24, 2009, 03:19:31 PM
Hi All,

I'm a newbie trying to do something I thought would be simple... (heard that before have you?   :D)

Just trying to define the upper barrel of a "Cigar" pen.  The small end has a diameter of 0.470" and the large end is 0.570".  With the slight curve connectiong the ends, the barrel should have a max diameter of 0.675".  I drew the entire thing and snipped out the desired curve a couple different ways.  All dxfs load into LazyTurn without trouble but I certainly don't get a cut profile which looks correct.  I've been back to the manual and defining different tools but still cannot get good output.  The drawing is done using CorelDRAW X4 and exported as dxfs.

Please let me know what I've missed.

Thank you,   Joe

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on May 24, 2009, 04:47:35 PM
Hi, Joe

Hears 2 dxf's, LazyTurn doesn't seem to like the profile, Maybe Art will look at them.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 24, 2009, 10:32:05 PM
Hi:

 Has to do with it having a polyspline as an entity, and th eobject being so small.
Fixed for next release, it now loads on mine.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on May 25, 2009, 12:57:58 AM
Thank you Chip!  Thank you Art! 

Is there a "better" way to achieve the minor curvature?  There are a few profiles I'm working on.  Some more bulbous than others but since these are for pens, they'll never be significantly larger.

All the best,   Joe
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: SteinarN on May 25, 2009, 01:56:27 AM
Maybe drawing a polyline instead of a splin will help?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on May 25, 2009, 02:01:36 AM
Hi, Joe

Maybe it won't be an issue after the next Revision, Art's still debugging LazyTurn's file loading routine's some.

It's getting better and better All the Time.

Chip

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 25, 2009, 08:37:26 AM
JOE,
Your files are coming in as 3d files in Microstation, won't open in earlier versions of AutoCAD but will open in
later versions.
1. Save your drawings as a 2d, version 12 DXF
2. You only draw the top half of the profile. See Appendix "B", figure 3.5.1 of the manual. Also look at the
    other comments in that appendix.
3.As far as DXF's are concerned, read Appendix "C"

I know nothing about Corel Draw. All programs are not created equal when it comes to what they create and export.
That's what appendix "c" tells you and then tries to address the issue. To make your drawings work i would have
converted them from 3d to 2d, then modified them to agree with appendix "B" , then exported them as
a version 12 DXF. Since i don't have or use your program i can't give specifics to Corel Draw on what exactly you need to do.

As far as using the manual, Appendix B & C are solid and still are standing the test of time.
The manual is being updated, and maybe, depending on how things go today, there will be an update shortly.
 
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 25, 2009, 10:09:09 AM
Hi Guys:

  New Version.

  This version fixes the previously mentioned spline error, and also will post for all toolpaths generated.
I have some work to do on optimising the secondary toolpaths, and then its on to the Finish path
generation. Thats still a confusing one as to exactly how to do that efficiently,..but we'll see what I
can think up..

 Have fun,
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on May 25, 2009, 10:59:57 AM
Good morning Guys!

Thank you both for the guidance and response!  I've been working with CDX4 dxf generation options.  The options don't include version 12 - {2.5, 2.6, 9, 10, 11, 13,2000, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007} - and all want to try some 2D projection of a 3D object (even though the drawing is a simple 2D line drawing - go figure).

So, what does when do when one hits a wall?  Take a detour.  Rich, thanks for mentioning 2D explicitly.  I exported using HPGL2 PLT format and LazyTurn ate it up just fine, producing a valid Cut.  Then I noticed the direct CMX file import option and tried that.  Even better!

All the best,   Joe
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 25, 2009, 01:33:37 PM
Art,
Still trying to "break the last version", getting harder to do that, but will move on to your latest posted version.

Getting a lot of no more roughs required, and will be curious on how the finish paths takes care of the "bumps left" from the roughs. The bumps left, can be quite large, yes, you can change roughs to get them down, so tool selection along with the cut parameters become more important. The bitchy part is conveying it, at just the right level ,to someone totally new to a turn program.
    
I am trying to update the manual, so the posting will give me some more to include in it.
I assume posting is still rather basic without options.
Will just let the manual  lag behind enough so i am not wasting my time trying to address something  that may not even exist in the future.
---------------------------------
Finish pass "That's still a confusing one as to exactly how to do that efficiently,..but we'll see what I
can think up.."
FWIW
You can think in terms of just a single pass which follows the profile, taking the bumps away, and the actual cutting
be what it will be, based on the tool used. Maybe another profile finish again at high speed. That may be fine for a
small or simple profile. So this implies just following the profile a few times.
BUT
With a larger more complicated profile, a single tool may not be appropriate. The same tool selections used along
with the same approach can be used just allowing it to do the finishing paths. Following the profile may not be practical.

So practically speaking,
-  single / custom tool which does the finish path
-  multiple tools required to avoid gouging but with a different tool radius
Maybe to implement, this is where selection of what part of the profile along the Z, can be picked to avoid
cutting a lot of air. ( could have a modified DXF version of the drawing to do this but no longer easy / PITA).
I guess the above sounds simple but from your end just don't know what how hard that is to implement.
Have fun

Thanks for the updated version,
RICH

 


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 25, 2009, 04:58:40 PM
Joe,
You can use DXF versions greater than 12, since what started to happen, is it that as the software became more advanced, it had to include more info into the DXF to represent the drawing. So the simpler the info the less chance
of DXF stuff complicating the import process. I have used later versions of DXF. But then maybe i read your post wrong and you don't have any version options???
 
So, what does when do when one hits a wall?

Maybe you do need to take a detour. It surely may be easier. You create it and get it into an importable file.
Don't take my comment as blowing you off. Now excuse my candor, paint programs or the hundreds of programs have advanced to do everything and anything but can't do some fundamental stuff very well, and face it, because they can't meet the basic industry requirements or at times even deliberately do stuff to be a PITA. I don't know, as I  have become narrow minded and untolerant of the DXF issue.
 
Maybe you can try out a few very inexpensive CAD programs and see if they will do that needed step for you.

Maybe there is something in your manual which allows you to configure the DXF output?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 25, 2009, 05:29:22 PM
Rich:


  My thought is that a finish pass can always deal with the bumps though an assumption about the finish pass depth. Lets say the previous pass, the one just completed that now triggers the finsh pass, was done with a depth per pass of 2mm's. We know then that any bumps left affect that tool by no more than 2mm's. Thats all that can be left for that tool on the profile where the tool can actually fit. So if a person specifies a
final pass depth of 2mm, I can follow a profile of where the tool will fit along the acutal profile of the object , knowing that no more than 2mm can be seen. However, if a user specifies a finish depth of 1mm, for example, then two finish profiles woudl be generated, one 1mm out from the profile, the next at profile depth.
   All I really know is that when a finish is called for , its for the same tool that did the previous cut, and the pass of the previous cut. Selecting any tool invalidates the call for a finish pass, so the previous pass was always the finish pass's tools last rough pass.So it may indeed take several tools to complete a finish, but that shoudl be automatic by virtue of the finish will only be performed where that tool can fit.

  That will be my thrust anyway.. at first.. :)

 So the user sequence to follow will be

1) Selecting a tool
2) Rough pass
3) Fine Rough
4) Finish,

  Rince and repeat with other tools for other areas to be "finished"

Im sure it will get more complicated than that, but thats what Im aiming for. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on May 25, 2009, 07:01:41 PM
No worries, Rich.  

I had meant to type, "What does one do when one hits a wall?  Take a detour."

There don't appear to be the necessary adjustment "knobs" for CDX4 to generate the desired dxf files.   Since LazyTurn will also import Corel Media Exchange (CMX) and HPGL2 (PLT) files among others, that solved my trouble.  Importing the CMX equivalent into LazyTurn produced what appears to be very good output and usable G-code.

I use CD as a vector generating app for other devices - laser and vinyl plotter - so am quite familiar with it.  I also could try Illustrator or install a copy of AutoCAD 2002 if it comes down to it.  For now though, I'm happy with what's working.

A question on the G-code generation - actually setting coordinates.  The Mach3Turn wizards allow setting the part X & Z zero points to the "front, rightmost" point on the stock to be machined resulting in moves that are in the negative direction for both axes.  LazyTurn, it seems, allows Z axis setting zero to the rightmost spot but X remains at the center of the piece.  Is it possible to shift the X origin (zero position) to the outer diameter of the starting stock so that setup operations whether using wizard or LazyTurn G-code are similar?

Best,   Joe
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 25, 2009, 10:51:57 PM
Joe,
Thanks for posting your solution as i will put that into the manual somewhere.
----------------
"Is it possible to shift the X origin (zero position) to the outer diameter of the starting stock so that setup operations whether using wizard or LazyTurn G-code are similar? "

 Most all programs have X=0 as the origin for their code because it can be a repeatable place to easily find / reference to, along with a number of other reasons. There are a lot of ways of accomplishing what you ask. Depends on how "you" want to work and your understanding of Mach3 Turn.

For now here is MY suggestion for when in MACH3Turn:

Zero world  X and Z which ( cancels any G54 so there are no offsets ) and set home somewhere away from the piece, move the tool "controlled point" to where the gcode for the part was created, click part zero X & Z, ( now machine=program=part cords at the same point ) move the tool to where you want to start cutting, cycle start the program and all should work just fine. That's a mouth full, but, just one way of working that will keep you out of trouble. I hope!  ;)

Depends on the gcode generated by each Wizard. I am not sure they are all a like on where the first move starts from. That said, don't let you heart be troubled, for there will be a section in the LazyTurn manual which will include information about Mach3 Turn.

prep moves from or to a point, including how to use use / create a tooltable, what impact use of using the tool tip radius vrs using the offsets which may have been created already. Program / machine / part coordinates relationships, how setting home can be used, an overview of Mach3Turn, etc etc etc.......whatever the verbage turns out / or needs to be. That will be put into the manual after the finish paths are available and whatever Art decides to do from a post processing point of view.
Simply put, I hope to cover Mach3Turn at some level in an appendix, the verbage will not conflict with the Using MAch3 Turn manual. The current four screens, are as they were created before my time, can be confusing if you don't have a good grasp of the whole program. I will see if i can capture the the compete program visually in about four pages or so.  ???

RICH 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on May 26, 2009, 12:11:59 AM
Hey Rich,

"... don't let you heart be troubled, for there will be a section in the LazyTurn manual ..."

That had me rolling!   ;D

Have a great week!   Joe
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on May 26, 2009, 03:28:11 AM
Hi, Art

Every thing is looking pretty good, As long as you start ruff's with a Left Hand Cutter, I still think All rough cut's should be treated the same on the Right End of the Profile.

As for Final Passes at least a couple and the last to be a Spring "type" pass, Tool changes transiting to final pass will sort themselves out by rearing it's Ugly Head after a final pass is implemented, I'd Think.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 26, 2009, 03:48:49 PM
Art,
If you select one of the "Diagnostics" a toolpath is created and you can also post code.
You couldn't post code before if diagnostics was chosen, well at least for Scan line diagnostics,
since it would not include gouging / tool geometry etc when done. Visual Intersect Diags
is the default if diagnostics is not chosen.

Can you clarify?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 28, 2009, 09:54:28 AM
Rich:

  I wouldnt worry too much about it, the diagnostics will probably not be in the final version. But Ill check why it posts.. It shouldnt..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on May 28, 2009, 09:55:33 AM
Hi Guys:

  New version.

  This version optimises the secondary toolpaths. I tno longer pulls all the way out between groups of cuts.
Should be much faster and more efficicent to actually clean out the profile.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 28, 2009, 12:43:11 PM
Hmm,
Diagnostics in or out, it's your nickle, you didn't take a peek at the updated manual. ;)
Anyway, it's a dynamic manual like the program.  :)
On to your next version.  ;D

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on June 15, 2009, 10:24:45 PM
Chip
Here's the file for turn 4-40 thread barb fitting thanks for looking
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on June 15, 2009, 10:29:05 PM
just wondering if we are going to get a finish pass any time soon.

Thanks
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on June 15, 2009, 11:22:47 PM
Dennis:

  Cant promise anything, Im still trying to figure the best approach..and summer hit us, so Im busy with several summer projects.. Gives it all some "steeping " time though..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on June 16, 2009, 11:30:07 AM
Art
OK don't work to hard on those other projects save some energy for LT thanks have a great summer up there i know they are short for you guy's.

Rg's
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on June 16, 2009, 12:35:25 PM
Hi Dennis:

 yeah, thats the trouble, our summers are so short they tend to be busy. Im watching them tear down my old garage as I type so they can build my new shop next week. Im
finally getting a shop built that will allow me room to experiment some more. Course then I have to fill it with tools, compressor, CNC stuff..etc.. :)
 Then theres the short scuba season.. motorcycle season.. and Im working on an intersting concept for an SCurve planner for the future as well. Too much to do, too little time.

  I am still thinking on LTurn to see how exactly to do the finish pass in the most logical way, the current verison seems pretty good at general roughing and finishroughing, it seems
to remove a good logical amount of material , with wood turning its probably good enough now for general use.. once I come up with a generic solution for a finish pass Ill finish that section up..

Thx
Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on June 16, 2009, 04:23:52 PM
Hi Art
I know what you mean i am out of room myself i keep telling the wife i need a bigger shop but nothing so far how'd you do it.

Thanks
Dennis 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on June 16, 2009, 06:06:52 PM
Shhhh, she'll hear you!... :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on June 16, 2009, 07:10:30 PM
Art
Let me know how you got here to go along with it i want one to.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Graham Waterworth on June 17, 2009, 03:42:45 AM
Divorce did it for me, very easy to start, costly to finish, well worth it in the end   ;)

Graham
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on June 17, 2009, 10:30:22 AM
well that's one way of doing it a bit costly don't know if i would have enough left over to build a tent let alone a shop LOL.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: shegan on June 24, 2009, 07:46:40 PM
just wanted to say that I finally got this entire process finished on a fresh w2000 box and it works great.  I think you have a great thing going here and I'm looking forward to the version with a finish pass feature.  For now I'll hand code it - it's a good exercise anyway.  Thanks for the good work.
On my laptop where I was practicing installation I have an option in the file menu for ENTIB, which strangely starts rhapsody for my blackberry.  Not sure where that comes from but I think it's funny.  Still says that lazycam is not installed, though sheetcam starts up just fine.
Eating up all the profits in R&D.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on June 25, 2009, 06:49:25 AM
shegan,
LazyTurn is not working for you?
There is a manual iin Members Docs for LazyTurn which decribes how to install it.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: shegan on June 25, 2009, 11:22:54 AM
everything works great, I love it.  Have read the manual through and love it.  Would recommend it to anybody.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on July 08, 2009, 05:17:09 PM
Art, Rich - what's the trick in specifying the final part diameter correctly?  I'm still working with these relatively minor curves for turning pens barrels and it seems the diameter I specify turns out to be the diameter of the leftmost edge (nearest the headstock) rather than the maximum diameter of the turned part.  If that's the rule, great!  Nice and simple.  If not, how should it work and what should I specify?

Thank you,   Joe
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 08, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
Hi Joe:

  Im not sure I understand the question. In LTurn you specify the stock diameter, and the drawing then specifies how much to remove.
The max diameter of the part should be the result more of the drawing than the program. Now it is possible that due to the roughing and/or
the finish-rough stage  being set to too large a step it may miss some of the final diamter cut.. but that shouldnt be the norm.

  If , for example, you specify one final finish-rough pass of .1mm ( or say .01") , then the final part should be within .1mm of the drawing final
diameter. Of course you probably see better than I since your using the program where some curves may be harder to cut exactly than others.
Minor curves, such as thoose in pens may have a arc radisu so large that even small roughing cannot really show the arc fully. Hopefully this winter
I will geta final finish pass working to everyones approval. Im teaching myself a great deal of calculus at the moment so by the time coding season
comes along I should be much better at intuiting the necessary steps Ill have to take. :)

  Thx for the feedback, nice to see the program is being used,

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on July 08, 2009, 06:14:12 PM
Hi Art,

Thank you for the quick response! 

Maybe there's a simpler way to ask the question.  On the display there are two triangles, a brown one and a blue one.  My understanding is the blue one sets the diameter of the stock and the brown one I understood to be the desired maximum diameter of the finished part.  For instance, I have a simple curve with left end diameter of 0.54" a maximum diameter about an inch to the right of that which is 0.595" and the rightmost diameter is 0.465".  I was defining the brown triangle value to be that 0.595" but that definitely didn't give me the desired left end/right end diameters.  The profile itself is simply a floating curve so those "end diameters" aren't specified in the drawing - it's a "floating" profile.  Defining those end radii in the drawing didn't seem to result in the desired diameters either.

I appreciate all the effort you're putting into this project!

All the best,   Joe
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 08, 2009, 08:05:50 PM
Joe:

 Ahh yes, I see what you mean. That triangle actually sets a scaling factor is all, so if a job's max was 1" , it could be made 2".. etc.. But all curves and points in it equally scale outwards..or inwards.. so the end diamter will be a factor of what the original was. If the right was different from the left originally, it still will be after scaling ...

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 08, 2009, 08:09:37 PM
JOE,
There is a manual for LazyTurn in the Members Docs which explains what each of the ruler pentagons indicate. Ordinarily you would only change the blue one to suite a stock size of your choice verses the one generrated by the program.
Your drawing contains all the infomation required by LazyTurn to generate pathing. The information  is contained in the DXF file.There is no need to specifiy diameters.
 
Post a version 12 DXF of your profile.
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 08, 2009, 08:16:52 PM
Hmm......Missed that one in the manual and i will bet there are a lot more, but, until we have a strange pair of eye's looking it over we'll never know.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on July 09, 2009, 12:55:53 AM
Hi Guys!

Rich, I'm still working on getting v12 DXFs.  I installed ACAD2002 and haven't yet figured out how to get the curves I want directly.  So I do my layout in CorelDRAW, export to v11 DXF, import into ACAD2002 then save out as v12.  Honestly, it doesn't seem to make much difference.  There's just something I'm not getting but I'm confident the lightbulb will eventually go on.  ;)  In the meantime, I'm loading my curves into LTurn and playing with the brown diameter value until I see the end diameters I'm looking for.

I just tried to create a simple stepped bushing profile and get something similar.  This bushing has a max diameter of 0.476" for 0.5" then drops down to 0.358".  The GCode appears to get within 0.001 of the desired max diameter but the small diameter is 0.050" too large.

Cheers,   Joe
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 09, 2009, 10:22:33 AM
Joe,
-There are differences between the DXF versions and some will work and some may create a problem. I cover DXF files at a very high level in Appendix "C".
- Haven't used Corel draw in years and suggest you use ACAD and dump Corel, but then that's just my personal opinion. I have resolved myself to either Microstation or ACAD and don't bother with anything else since  after all these
years of dealing with vendors, design firms, conversations, 100's of different "CAD" programs I am just plain tired of the magic wand  / differences between them .
- Looked at your dxf and it's a bunch of polylines. In APPENDIX "B" , 5.9  Compose the profile from simple elements.
So suggest you don't use polylines.
- Remember that when you use a cutter the program takes into consideration the nose radius , etc. in generating the Gcode, so if you look at the gcode , the pathing should be correct but accounts for offsets.
- Also suggest that you start your profile at X & Z ( 0,0 ) , see figure 3.5.1 in APPENDIX "B".
- VERY IMPORTANT .....LazyTurn at this time dosen't generate a finish pass. SO there should  be some stock left for a finish pass. You can use LazyCAM Turn or hand code for the finish pass.
- Draw your profile accurately with the diameters the way you want them. Yes you can scale but it's not what i would recomend.
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on July 09, 2009, 10:49:42 AM
Hi Rich,

I keep the manual handy and have read all the references.  As far as part positioning goes, I use the horizontal traingles to set the start point and tool offset in LTurn.  As far as design software goes, I'm the first to admit I know nothing about ACAD but I do have several years into CD and can knock things out quickly.  The ACAD manual is 2-3 inches thick and all I want is a nice, smooth curve.  It's not obvious how it's done in ACAD - sure simple radius-based arcs are easy but the ones I'm shooting for don't map into that.

As far as the multiple polylines - all I was putting together for that bushing profile are straight line segments.  Click the start point, double click the endpoint to terminate the segment.  I have no control over what CD generates.  Maybe this is something I could figure out in ACAD.

With regard to the finish pass - it isn't a problem for me right now.  All barrels have to go through an incremental sanding phase and finish application.  I'm shooting for 0.010-0.015 oversize coming out of the Mach3 run.

Thanks again for the advice/insight.  As I've said, I appreciate the efforts you all are putting on this.

Cheers,   Joe
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 09, 2009, 11:01:15 AM
Joe,
"I have no control over what CD generates." - My point exactly!

Just try wiening yourself off CD, and i know how hard that can be, but in the long run you'll benefit.
As far as ACAD, you probably only use 5 % of it's capability.

If you want to have something oversize, just put a  value in the "Stock Clearance" in the dialog ( figure 5.14 in the manual).
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 09, 2009, 11:30:19 AM
Hey Joe,
As you read thru the manual ,if you find stuff that is not clear or leaves you wondering in any way, or want to make a comment good, bad or ugly feel free to just post the comment. The manual is not meant to teach you how to use a lathe, but, nothing beats a fresh pair of eyes for finding something.
Appreciate it,
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: chrisjh on July 11, 2009, 06:44:02 AM
Hi Guys,

I am keen to help with this development.  I am not an expert but have read the well documented manual and tried to follow the instructions as best I could.  I created a model in Solidworks and from that model created a dxf upper profile and saved it in ACAD 11/12 format.  See attached dxf.

Whenever I load the saved dxf into Lazyturn I get a greatly oversized profile.  Lazyturn allows me to change the stock diameter to any value I wish but will not allow me to change the profile diameter to anything less than the default value that Lazyturn gives it.  See screenshots below.

Regards

Chrisjh
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 11, 2009, 08:22:11 AM
Chrisjh,
Move the profile in your CAD system to proper QUADRENT. See Appendix "B" in the manual Figure 3.5.1.    ;)  See attachments.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: chrisjh on July 12, 2009, 05:47:54 AM
Thanks Rich,

I am kicking myself for missing the obvious.

Kind Regards

Chrisjh
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on July 12, 2009, 09:26:58 AM
chrisjh: if you don't mind, I have a question for you on how you were able to export your dxf in the origin that it was drawn. How did you accomplish this?

I'm not a solidworks pro (I have solidworks 2005) and I only figured out how to get a reasonable dxf for turn by accident. By looking at the pics below, you'll see that when I export the drawing to dxf, I put the sketch just on a custom sheet with no text or blueprint template as you can see and making sure it's 1:1. Now when you look at the dxf in LazyTurn, you'll see that it's stretched like yours.

Now what I found accidentally because I was trying locate it in different places on the drawing to find the proper origin, is that if I put it right at the bottom of the sheet (anywhere along the bottom) it comes out right but it has to be right on the edge as shown in the pics below.

Some pictures will be on a seperate post as you're only allowed 4 pics per post.

I'd like to know how you were able to place yours at a specific origin?

Thanks for any help-
Dave

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on July 12, 2009, 09:27:40 AM
Here are the pics of how I got it to work:
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: chrisjh on July 13, 2009, 07:20:37 AM
Hi Budman,

I too am not a Solidworks pro.  I use SW 2007 and have no formal drafting or CAD training, hence my ignorance of quadrants and origins.  Thanks to Rich I am now better informed.

The method I used is as follows:

1.  Create the model in Solidworks.

2.  Create a drawing of the model showing only the top or side view ensuring that the scale is 1:1.

3.  Save the drawing as a dxf.  (SW gives you the option to save in various dxf fromats including ACAD 11/12)

4.  Close the dxf in SW and open it again in BOBCAD (I do this because I don't know how to move origins in SW or DWG Editor.  I tried to follow the help but gave up!!!)

5.  Use BOBCAD to move the origin to the correct quadrant and trim the drawing to show the upper half of the profile only.

Regards

Chrisjh
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on July 13, 2009, 08:17:53 AM
Chris,

Thanks for the rundown on how you do it.

 I was hoping that you had known a way to locate the origin in dxf form so that I didn't have to go to another program but no big deal, I guess I can use ProgeCAD (like autoCAD) if need be.

I do appreciate your reply and your help -  :)
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jtheath on July 20, 2009, 10:22:29 PM
Hi Rich,

Here are a couple DXFs from ACAD2002 saved as R12.  The cigarTop should have end diameters of 0.480 & 0.580.  The cigarBottom should have end diameters of 0.530 & 0.462.  I ran LT using the diamond35 bit and 0.002 depth cuts.  What I got as far as GCode was 0.531 & 0.626 for the top; 0.582 & 0.512 for the bottom.  Where's that extra 0.050 coming from?

These may still be more complex than ideal.  Used a spline to get the shape.

Thank you,   Joe

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 21, 2009, 01:40:28 AM
Joe,
Can you post a pic of your cut button which will show me your stock clearance.
LT dosen't provide a finish pass yet. So you will not get a profile cut.You can get one out
of Lazycam Turn.
I'll try out your files later today.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on July 21, 2009, 03:26:27 AM
Hi, Joe

The reason your dia. is large is the final rough cut is the value of your cut per pass of .002 + the taper of your profile.

The pic below shows at arrow the final "rough (.005)" passes and I added the final pass on this pic for you to see, Bottom .Tap file is the file.

Hear are the final passes for both of your parts, You can just run them after your rough or cut and past them to your rough  G-code, You'll need to remark ";" out some of the rough code though.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on July 26, 2009, 10:33:51 PM
Hi, Ed

I looked at your dxf, It's just drawn in the wrong place in your Cad program.

Pic 1 your dxf.
Pic 2 moved to the proper location the square border need's to be removed also.
Pic 3 LazyTurn pic.
File 1 New dxf.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: yakfisherman on July 26, 2009, 11:59:59 PM
Chip

OK, you confirmed my hunch.  I'll have to see if I can figure out how to use X,Y coordinates in my CAD program.  This may be a big problem since there is no user manual available for Solid Edge 2D software.  I'll try searching in the help file to see if I can find anything there.

Can you tell me how you moved the drawing to the correct location, step by step instructions would really help me.  My short term memory problem makes it very difficult for me to learn without having written directions.  Thanks a lot, again Chip!

Ed
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: yakfisherman on July 27, 2009, 08:06:43 PM
Chip

After our conversation the other day concerning the location of drawing in the upper left quadrant of the drawing field, I moved all of my drawing to that area but, Solid Edge 2D doesn't have the coordinate 0:0 set anywhere near that location it is actually at the bottom left corner of the drawing field.  Once I moved the drawing to that location it all works fine.  All of the chess set pieces load , create toolpaths and generate g-code with no problem.  I was able to load each of the g-code files into Mach3Turn and run the code simulating the cutting process with no errors.  Now just have to wait until a version of LazyTurn is provide that will do finish cuts.  You didn't know it but you pointed me in the right direction and made me think about the problem from a different perspective which lead me to the answer.  Thanks again.

Ed
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on July 27, 2009, 08:24:39 PM
Hi, Ed

Haven't used solid edge, Glad you got it worked out.

Anytime, Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 27, 2009, 08:31:47 PM
Hi Ed,
Until the finish comes around, this may help.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12156.msg78100.html#msg78100

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: joKunath on August 04, 2009, 02:49:09 AM
Hello,

I am a german user of LazyCam / Mach3.
I looked over this thread and found at some pages downloads of LazyTurn, because we are very interested in using LazyTurn.
In the Download area of this page I can't find a section with the last "development-versions" of Lazturn.
So I have two questions:

1.) Where can I find the newest Version?
2.) When do you think  (I know ... I read the first statement to Lazyturn ;-) ) LazyTurn will be available.

best regards,
jo
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on August 04, 2009, 03:10:18 AM
Hi, Jo

1 Page 107 Post # 1067 ver. 1.1
2 No idea.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: joKunath on August 04, 2009, 03:51:00 AM
Thanks a lot
jo
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on August 05, 2009, 11:30:33 AM
Hi All,
Just thought i would mention that there is a manual for LazyCam which covers it's Lathe Module.
It provides a tutorial on how to get a finish pass ( and a few other things ) and can thus be used until LazyTurn provides for it.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12078.0.html

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on August 23, 2009, 01:53:30 PM
when i download the latest lazyturn28may it does not represent the menus that are shown on the manual or what is shown on screen representations in the forum. Why is this is there something missing?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on August 23, 2009, 05:05:36 PM
Hi, Bigbigjimbo

Do you have these item's turned ON.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on August 24, 2009, 03:27:50 AM

Hi The only items i have in the View pull down menu are :
Toolbar,
Status Bar,
Zoom In,
Zoom Out,
Zoom Fit,
Tool Library.
I copied the lazyturn zip file to the mach directory and unzipped it and opened it. maybe i am missing something?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on August 24, 2009, 06:09:27 AM
BIGBIGJIMBO,
Did you follow the manual ( page 5 of 42 ) for the installation?
If you already had Mach installed you need the update 3.00.2, if you updated Mach then 3.00.2  gets installed.
Also i think you should install LT to an individual directory. You then just replace the exe file in that directory with downloaded one from  page 107 reply #1067.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on August 24, 2009, 09:54:01 AM
Hi
I followed instructions exactly as manual says and i have the most up to date Version R3.042.029
i thought LT was supposed or can be installed in the Mach3 directory.
maybe this is the problem?
I have done everything else as you say.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on August 24, 2009, 11:09:31 AM
Hi, Bigbigjimbo

Hears the exe for LTurn.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on August 24, 2009, 11:20:21 AM
I found the problem I thought LT May 28 was the latest. installed LT May25 now it is ok
Thanks all
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on August 24, 2009, 09:09:59 PM
Chip,
Was my reply incorrect in #1115? Don't want to confuse ( myself anyway !), but that was the last one Art posted.
Can't find crap on tihs PC . Guess it needs a good house cleaning!
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on August 24, 2009, 11:21:19 PM
Tere is a Lazyturn May28 in post 1067 this is the one i used at first and it did not give the full menu's As i said when i installed the one you mentioned chip it worked fine.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on August 24, 2009, 11:38:43 PM
Funny, as I am using the May 28 version and no problem. Don't know what to say.  ???
I quess a file download can be like Spam ,which is basicaly a case of bad meat in the can! ;)
I don't like Spam.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: bigbigjimbo on August 24, 2009, 11:49:48 PM
Rich
We are only in trial anyway, what does your version do that the may 25 version does not do? This does not produce code yet or does it? i have tried but i think i need to read more in the manual.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on August 25, 2009, 06:56:19 AM
Bigbigjimbo,
It just optimises the rough passes .
 LT will post code to a file but not directly into Mach3 turn. For a single finish pass  you can use LazyCam . There is a manual in Member's  Doc's for LC. See Tutorial #5 for a how to ( it uses the same file as used for the LT Manual ). Note that you need to look at the whole manual as each tutorial builds on each other.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: k4mg on August 28, 2009, 09:56:08 AM
Hi,

I am using LazyTurn to generate the roughing profiles for my turning, and LazyCam to generate the finish pass.  LT works fine on XP, but I need to use it on Vista and I have the following problem:

When I try to generate g-code in LT, using a new file name, LT says it can't find the file, and gives me an notepad file, which is empty.  I have LT 1.1.  If i start with a existing .tap file, I get the old file, unchanged. 

I took LT to another Vista machine, same result.  Tried on an XP machine, and everything works fine. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks, Barry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on August 28, 2009, 10:27:09 AM
I assume you have LC pro as that will post code, as far as Vista ( i use XP ) don't know what to tell you since i have never used it.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on August 28, 2009, 10:28:57 AM
Hi:

  It has to do with Vista not allowing you to modify a file in certain folders. Try right clicking and selecting "Run as Admin", OR failing that, save the file to your desktop..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on August 28, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
Art,
SO what's up with LazyTurn? In the Fall?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on August 28, 2009, 10:55:42 AM
Hi Rich:

  My plan is for first snows... :)

 Im working on a summer project approaching working status ( A next-generation planner) , so once I finish this I'll be back at LT, or on first snow II'll switch back. I needed the break to get fresh again.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on August 28, 2009, 11:13:40 AM
ART or Brian,
I am curiuos, will you or Brian ever / someday do any changes to LazyCam.
There is manual for it in the Members Docs and at the end of it there is a bug list.
Of that list, there are only a few important ones that require fixing.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: k4mg on August 28, 2009, 11:15:32 AM
Dear Art, the great god of turning,

Yes, Yes, Yes, I right clicked the executable and made the change you suggested, and it works to save the .tap on Vista now.  

Thanks!
Barry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on August 28, 2009, 01:04:35 PM
Rich:

  It always was my plan to port LT back to LC, to put the new dxf loader in there, and the new optimiser..etc.. LazyTurn is much more accepted Ive noticed, it loads more then LC, and it rarely gives errors, so its code would be nioce to have ported to lazycam. Its my intent to do so and then remove the turn section in LC altogether. Its bad code, ( licenced at great cost .. ), and LT seems to do better for the most part. We'll see where we are when I finally give you a finishing pass..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on September 16, 2009, 10:55:28 AM
Hi Guy's
 I am upgrading my version of Mach to the latest .029 for my lathe and i am having trouble getting this version to save the X&Z axises the version wants to stay in mill mode with the X&Y axises copied everything from the earlier version but i must have missed something appreciate the help.

Thanks
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on September 16, 2009, 11:06:48 AM
Dennis:

 Make sure the screenfile is named *.lset not just *.set

art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on September 16, 2009, 11:12:34 AM
Art
Thanks for the quick reply i would find this in the mach folder ?
Thanks
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on September 16, 2009, 11:24:48 AM
under active plane i click the radial button for x&Z but it won't save it then goes back to X&Y when i changed the name to LSE the screen came up blank no graphics changed it back and all came back up.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on September 16, 2009, 04:59:02 PM
Dennis:

 If mach3 loads a screen file with *.lset as its name, it starts up in lathe mode, if not, then its mill mode.

 So if your lset file is bad, try reinstalling mach. Or load 1024.lset  as your screen set.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on September 16, 2009, 07:22:29 PM
Hi Art
Thanks for the reply and help I got it going after hacking at it for a while sometimes you got to talk mean to it.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on October 02, 2009, 12:07:14 PM
Hi Art
Well it's getting toward the end of the year and i am told it's starting to get cold up in Canada so do you think we'll see a finished pass this year of will it be next year before it's working?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on October 02, 2009, 06:17:32 PM
Dennis:

  Yup, getting colder.  Ive already laid Termpest to rest fer a bit so I can refocus on LTurn. Ive been investigating this week exactly how the finish pass
might work, with luck it may be by the end of the year or perhaps sooner.. depends on how those investigations go. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on October 03, 2009, 12:51:33 PM
Art
That would be great it's been kinda pain to do a rouging pass and then play with a finish pass to final dimension can eat a lot of material if not careful thanks hope you get back to it soon.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Noto on October 22, 2009, 09:59:47 PM
I'm really confused about something I am loading my part up and everything looks good but when I post the code its moving the x the whole diameter of the part.

X 0 appears to be on center of the part in lazyturn.
part is 1" round appears as .5 off center in LazyTurn but when I post code its giving me G1 X1.04... Its moving off center by the whole diameter of the part? Should it not move .504?
I read the docs and I think I have the latest version says Alpha 1.1 tho this correct?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on October 22, 2009, 11:07:23 PM
Make sure you create your drawing in diameter, use LT in diameter, and have Mach3 Turn configured for Diameter.
 ( or radius, but be consistent ) Just quessing but that may be your problem.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Noto on October 23, 2009, 12:19:23 AM
Thanks Rich, that seems to have fixed it :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kryten on November 08, 2009, 01:34:19 AM
With the latest version of LazyTurn, I can't make the outside diameter the right size. It seems to be getting a default size for the O.D. that I can make larger but not smaller. I redrew the dxf with a smaller O.D. to compensate but it is still at the same position in LazyTurn. The O.D. of the job is 89.1 but LazyTurn won't let me resize it to less than 260.8304.
Glen.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kryten on November 08, 2009, 03:21:00 AM
I managed to resize the O.D. by moving the origin of the dxf. The original drawing was a pasted sketch in solidworks and saved as a dxf, but I couldn't define the origin. I assumed LazyTurn would use the vertical line at the end of the drawing as the radius length. I repositioned the origin using Bobcad and then it worked.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on November 22, 2009, 11:34:57 AM
I'm using LT to do a real job, in wood, turning out pincushion bases from red oak for my wife's company.  Everything is working well enough.  The thing I'm wishing for, most of all, is a feed rate for X that is different than Z. 

Here's why:  when the tool is moved (X direction) into the stock to begin the next (Z direction) cut, it plunges into the material and initially has to cut a lot of material all at once.  After it starts traveling in the Z direction it's only cutting from half of the cutter tip and I've chosen a feed rate that's appropriate for this.  But every time it plunges in for another cut it cuts from both sides of the tip simultaneously, removing too much material too fast.  If I slow the feed rate to match this X cut, I waste too much time on the Z cuts.   I need different, independently set feed rates for cuts in the X and Z directions.

Is there some other way to solve this problem?

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 22, 2009, 11:43:15 AM
Dave:

  Thanks for the problem. Im currently working on this Winters additions to LTurn, Ill add a dual feedrate capability. Good point!

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on November 27, 2009, 12:09:59 PM
Rich,
Let me try this again.
Title: Re: LazyTurn re: post 1148
Post by: aclausing on November 27, 2009, 01:31:03 PM
Hi All,
I'm having all sorts of problems tring to load the .dxf file into LC, It is just not going to let me do this for some reason. I load all sorts of other .dxf files in the past and have done all configurations of the file I know of to work before ,but now for some reason ,it is just a bust.It is either no appropate file or lines intersecting or no Y axis ,and a few others . This out of the many # of LC files I have made; this one is a pain in itself. Got to ask for some help on this one. Never had problems before..... Why Now.  Thanks for Looking..
Refer to the .dxf in post 1148. 'Rich,are you out there'    Thanks,      Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 27, 2009, 02:42:00 PM
Hank,
I will have a look at the file later on today. Foolling around fixing a Sherline Mill that has been collecting dust for a long time.  At least i found a place on the bench for it!
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 27, 2009, 04:06:32 PM
Hank,
Try the attached dxf and read the attached pdf file.
Take a look at the LC manual Tutorial #7, first few pages at least as they are very important.
There is a difference in drawing preparation if you use use lazyTurn and have also attached a file *********xx_LT for use to
shown the difference.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn 3L Pulley
Post by: aclausing on November 27, 2009, 05:18:31 PM
Hi Rich,
I read the namual and that section was included. Thanks for the kick n the pants. I drew that part must have been 40+ times,I refered to the pawn dwg that I have been busy with,and could Not for the Life of me get the 3L to post in LT. I did not get as far as to have it post to LC, and just could not figure out why it is hard ,sometimes to post. I see you proved a bold line on the leading edge and end, that are back to the axis 0.0 points. Like I say, this is the first time I had problems with a post of a file. I thought maybe because of the many angles, but proved wrong. On pawns they are generated to from the first curve to the end curve, and then there is no need for the end lines  to be drawn, thats my thinking,although,now with sharp edges,like the 3L, they are different, lines tend to be drawn out,or out and down to get accepted. I save all the drawings that I have for reference,and did so just like the others. Anyhow,thanks for picking your brain, and I sure did read that section. Although now looking at the .dwg, I've got to do it over as the small end is just too small, better to delete and figure out the rpm again,and shaft size. Hey, Good luck with your new toy you found. small machines like that always keep you busy,cause there's always room for improvement. Again, Thanks. Sure wish it would snow,as 'Art' could maybe finish the LT finnishing path. Hint! Hint!.... 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 27, 2009, 07:20:46 PM
Hank,
Most of the problems with LC or LT are self created before they are even imported into the program. There are a few quirky things, but for the most part, if it is drawn correctly and some machining thought put into the drawing things go rather easily. Yes, i look forward to the finish pass also, but, then i will need to go and start working on the LT manual and right now i am about manualed out.

RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on December 13, 2009, 06:36:19 PM
Art,

I'm really eager to have a finish pass.  I'm supposed to cut 1000 wood pincushion bases by February and, of course, I'm using the roughing pass in lieu of a finish pass.  It works, but I'm sure that having a finish pass will let me rough it out much faster and save a lot of time.  Multiplied by 1000 of these things, the time savings would be significant.

I'd be happy to test a pre-release with my project. 

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 13, 2009, 09:33:09 PM
Dave:

 Ill release a test as I get there. Work in underway , and Im hopefull it wont be too long.
I finally figured out HOW Ill do it, so if the idea works, it may be soon, if it fails... :-)
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 13, 2009, 10:01:28 PM
ART,
It is winter time now.  ;)
So whenever your ready.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 14, 2009, 10:35:00 AM
Hi Guys:

  Im working on finish pass, but a recent note that a plunge rate woudl be good also made me add that as its a fair point.

Here's the latest version that allows for a plunge rate to be set for any tool as well.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on December 20, 2009, 06:31:20 PM
Art,

The X-axis feed rate helped a lot.  I dropped from 7-1/2 minutes to 3-3/4 minutes with the separate X feed rate.  Thanks!!!

 Only, I don't understand why you called it "plunge rate" instead of simply "X-feed rate."  If performing a facing or boring operation wouldn't "plunge rate" be a misnomer, since the roles of X and Z are reversed when compared to turning operations?

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 20, 2009, 08:12:12 PM
True.. Ill consider that for next release.

Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 22, 2009, 10:09:02 PM
ART,
So will there be a Holiday / New Year present called FINISH PASS posted for LT?
Or you still thinking about it like Logan?  ;)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 22, 2009, 11:14:33 PM
No, the thinking is done, Im codeing it now..course if it dont work then Im back to thinking. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 03, 2010, 04:36:30 PM
ART,
Is it  working or back to thinking?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 03, 2010, 05:37:41 PM
Rich:

  It seems to be working. But the results are still preliminary. Im working on an algorithm to
do it faster and then I need to consolidate it to a path.

  Its amazingly complex. To take two polygons, ( a tool and a profile), and calculate how that
polygon can traverse the edge of the second polygon , where it will hit and where the optimal route is
is more complex than is believable.. I have to take into effect the possability of undercuts too which makes it a bit
more difficult.
 
   Its looking like we'll do any mixture of rough and fine cuts, rought is no longer necessary to do a fine, but then the fine
will take a great many passes, the number of final passes is dependent on the amount of material left over from the roughing.
In fine passing, you specify the final pass size as well as pass size. The algorithm will look to see when a pass hits no material,
and will make the next pass the first finish pass, so the number of finish passes will totally depend on if it is roughed or not.

  To that end I have added a finish button and removed the sensing of "finish pass allowed".

Cant promise when , but thats how its working out so far. Ill post when I have the initial test version ready.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on January 04, 2010, 10:26:47 AM
Art, 

I hate to waste your time with another email to answer, but my curiosity is overwhelming.  Your statement, that using a finish pass without roughing would work but would take many passes, has me wondering.....

I've been assuming that the finish pass would not use a raster algorithm to cut with, like the rough pass does, but instead would be vector based and would follow the final profile using diagonals and arcs as needed.  Am I wrong?

Regards,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 04, 2010, 10:59:44 AM
Dave:

   True. You see similar outputs from some programs that dont really do roughing.. its an offset series of passes that evolve eventually yo the actualy profile
by the time the tools gets to the target profile. The problem with many of those profilers is they dont take the tool into account, so the finish pass is simply the drawn profile.
That of course doesnt work as youll collide in many spots between tool and profile.
   What Im attempting is first calculating where the tool will actually fit, that being the finsh pass, and then offsetting outwards and doing pass after pass outwards until a pass
hits no left over material. Then the order will be reversed, and the finish passes output as a toolpath.

  SO it will be posssible to simply do finish passes, but thats not a great way to rough really.. though for some they'd see no real difference in time, in theory roughing, then finishing is the way to go, the roughing tool being capable of removing more material in a pass..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on January 04, 2010, 11:31:19 AM
Art,

I guess I'll have to see it in action to understand it.  Of course collisions between the tool and profile must be predicted and avoided, but I expected that the program would simply tell me when/where I needed to change tools to avoid collision.  This is my first foray into machine tools so I am a neophyte and know nothing about the industry's standard practice.

My profiles are pretty simple and my tools are narrower than any of the standard cutters.  Collisions haven't been a problem for me.  This is wood.  Right now I'm roughing down to zero and using sandpaper in lieu of a finish pass.  Sounds like I might do well to continue this.

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 04, 2010, 11:57:19 AM
Just a comment FWIW,
Your  tool selection will be important. The only tool that can be used to do it all, in general and depends on the profile, would be a point tool. So from a practical machining point of view, planning on how to do the cutting
is still required by the operator. So if the tool can't completely do all the finishing passes, then i quess you'll see what is left and need to apply the proper tool to accomplish them.

Here is a thought for you ART, realy lazy mode but maybe doable........
LT has a mode which has some basic tool set with some simple defined parameters, it automaticaly applies those tools to the profile / breaks the profile / generates the pathing, based on those tools and reports back that it can cut the profile with say these tools / parameters, and here is what's left and what can't be done. If you don't like that what LT did, then get out of that mode and define your owne tools to be used for pathing.  Just a cloud above my head!

RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 17, 2010, 08:55:17 PM
Hi Guys:

 Just thought Id post a note so you know work progresses.. That algorithm failed, but now..3 new algorithms later.. Im producing fairly good finishing passes.
Unfortunatley, this pointed out some failures in the roughing, which Ive now rewritten for greater accuracy.. my roughing wasnt near as accurate as the finishing,
and I didnt notice till the finish path was laid on top of it.. anyay..better now. :)

   Cant say how long till I nail down the finishing.. but its half way there anyway..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 17, 2010, 09:11:41 PM
Thanks for the update ART. At least you nipped it before having to read a hundred posts.
Half way is still better than just getting started. LOL Give a yell when you want us to break it!
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 26, 2010, 12:07:16 PM
Well, a few algorithms later..

   As some of you may or may not know, what LTurn is attempting is very very hard. SO much so thats its really a subbranch of math code you can call "physics similations on concave polynomial motion. ". I might add that it, like so much I attempt is very much above my pay grade. Its why very few good lathe programs exist that are easy. Most are difficult due to the collision detections required, so they pass much of that to the user to use his ituitive abilkities to overcome the difficulty in the math. Its much easier for a person to tell how much a tool will collide and which direction one woudl have to go to correct it than a computer can. Attempting this has
given me high appreciation for the math wizards that do this well. ( Few of them as there are..).

   LazyCam is meant to be easy, I dont want all kinds of user interfaces and things or it fails its purpose and is best left to the Wizards. No, this isnt a "I quit" message,
I just want to explain with this release some of the inherant rules that will now start to apply in order to get a good toolpath. I found many bugs anf inefficiencies while attempting fine pathing, and have corrected and changed much of the code in roughing as a result.

  Roughing works ona scan line pricinple, scan horizontal lines though the profile, clipping them when they enter and leave the profile, and correcting their lengths for
things liek polygon( tool) hitting the profile. And tool non-flank areas hitting the remaining stock. The only way to do this in the time that is feasably given the code, is
to check the start and end of lines for these complex collisions and adjust the lines accordingly. This means a tool may hit in the center of a line IF the tool radius is not the outter most point of the tool. For example if you rotate a diamond more than 27 degree's or so. Youll find problems in your cuts if the tool does exceed as the scanline calculations only see the tool at the start and end of the lines. It assumes a cut across the lines of tool radius size. ( You may not understand all that, but it boils down to this rule: )



  LazyTurn Roughing Rule #1: If any part of a tool is further out in the X than the radial tip, then the roughing may fail and cut into the profile. USers shoudl always check their profile onthe screen to ensure the leftover material is not cut into the profile..

  I may , soon, force that rule into effect codewise if you testers dont see any reason not to. You may find however that in certain instances your fine with the cutoff as long as you KNOW it will happen. If so, Ill leave it alone.


 Issue #2.

   Finepathing is more difficult than rough by orders of magnitude. This is because the true difficulty mathmatically, of calculating
oriented polygon intersections over the profiles length comes to the forefront. After experimenting with a great many methods using very complex modelling and logical analysis , I came to the conclusion that the only real way to do it was to simulate the fumbling of a
user as he would try to follow a mental image of what he's trying to cut. Even attempting to follow the intuitive nature of a person
as he cuts is more diffcult than youd imagine. However, by simply limiting the capability of a polygon to hit in the X direction
we come very close to what one woudl think of as the "best pass" type of finish pass.

  Few problems with this of course. First, a human sees distance as infinitely variable. As you move a tool from Z0 to Z-10, you see
at each point along the way if youll cross into the profile. A computer has no sense of the infinity of distance, it must granulate
the distance to check it, meanign it cant check every .000000001 inch to see if its a hit or not, since the profile is not moving in straight
lines necessarily, you cant simply vector check the collision, ( you could if the profiles were convex, but most are concave in nature).
SO we have a setitng in the fine path called "Tolerance" . This is how often along the profile we progress from step to step. In Inch mode I use .01 inches. Seems a fair constraint, but your feee to override it with the cost being time of caluclation. In Metric I use .05mm's. These
limits get me a finish pas sin a few seconds, if you desire high precision your time penalty for that is decided by how small "Tolerance" is set to in the finish pass dialog.

   Undercuts are not yet dealt with. Soem program simply dont allow them, I will , but I have to come up with a few filtering tricks in the logic to take them into account, another complex situation thats easy for a human.


  So with all that being said, Here is release 1.02 . You cannot yet cut any finish pass. You WILL see one though, and it will reflect
how far laong we are to getting a final output. This release is to hopefully make the roughing better and more accurate, and to allow you to send me pictures of problem area's in finsih pass generation. As it gets better and more usable, Ill set the post processor to allow its output. What youll see is only the final finsh pass, other passes will be generated form the final pass profile.

  Let me kwno what you find generally. I suspect we'll come up with rules as to what works and what doesnt, what can be done, and what will have to be passes to human intervention.

  There is a new button called ToolTest that allows you to put the screen tool on any spot to ensure the toolpath actually works. Ive seen many instances where I thought he tool will definitely hit, and when I plce the tool there it is indeed a fine place for it. :)

  To use that button, hit it, the cursor will become an arrow, click on th screen at any spot and the tool will appear there..


Good luck
Art
   
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 26, 2010, 12:25:18 PM

Heres is an example of a finish and rough cut on a test file.
The red line is the proposed finihs pass, youll note I dont remove the material so
you can see how much the finish tool woudl in theory cut off.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 26, 2010, 12:28:16 PM
By the way, youll notice on the left side of the output, the red line seems to follow the end points of the roughing
operation. This is a good intuitive check of the output, they are computer in different ways, so if the red seems to follow the
roughing endpoints, thats a good sign that if there is a collision error, it was duplicate dby both sections, which shoudl be very rare.

  IF the red line DOESNT follow the roughing constraints, thats a good reason to double check your output..

Art
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 26, 2010, 12:58:37 PM
Hi ART,
Making it easy ain't easy.....glad you stuck with it.
I am sure i will have questions and comments.
I'll  get into it in the next day or so and see how it works. Been away from LT for some time, and that is good
since i can start off with an open mind so to speak. Probably will do a quick fix to the manual......

Till then,
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 26, 2010, 05:08:07 PM
Hi Art,

I don't really have a lot of time here lately but wanted to ask a quick question about the latest "test".

So far this finish pass looks nice with 3 of my files at this point. Not very elaborate parts but....

I have a screenshot with some picture inserts showing the tool parameters I used and also showing a blow up area of my question. Notice how the finish pass line in red hooks around the end? It does it at "Z" zero as well, is this an issue or just something that's unimportant at this point?

(http://q46oyg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pIbS3-pBz6PTOW1KFR8hGqPOXDSGs9OkPpdlLWb2J-e0SRGKB4FTjB16Vf1Eumau3drxvX046YrSp0w9hKDIICuniCn8L8XQb/budman68test1.jpg)

Thanks for keeping on this, I appreciate it very much -
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 26, 2010, 05:25:14 PM
ART,
Looking pretty good but there are a few things I am finding. One of them is what Bud commented on above, but, depending on the tool used the finish pass will continue on to X =0 actualy cutting the part off. I'll post pictures, just want to first try a bunch of different profiles and see how LT is behaving. Will say that "out of the box" so to speak, it is doing better than before.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 26, 2010, 06:24:18 PM
Hi Guys:

   In the "hook" case, I notice the tool is quite narrow at the top, and I suspect if you use the tool placement test button youll find there is no problem and the tool actually fits
there so it goes there. It shoudlnt in the end make any difference as the line will have to be processed before being turned into a toolpath. Processing will mean clipping its front
and back to the size of the profile, and then progressively extending it outward suntil no more stock mterial is found.

  If you see such a "hook" try placing the tool on the tip of the cut by zooming in and usign the tool begig button, ("forgot that didnt you :-) ")

Since the finish pass if offset fromt he profile by the "CLearance" distance, its quite possible the tool will fit those hooks..

Art


Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 26, 2010, 06:41:49 PM
Art, thanks for the reply, I actually did play with the new tool but not sure what I'm doing, so I am guilty of that.

Here's another blowup super close with the tool tip, and remember, the tool tip is .002" of an inch.

See how the pass does a graceful angle and then makes a sharp right angle (hook) towards  X.000? (Note, image is a bmp for clarity as a JPG got too fuzzy, sorry.) Not sure I completely understand your explanation but I think when you said: "Processing will mean clipping its front and back to the size of the profile, and then progressively extending it outward suntil no more stock mterial is found." I believe that clears it up for me.

(http://q46oyg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pQkg1p-YT6gZw2GuHiAqdGGYjd5XKui0jWzLAzM4cfvpGfcDqKVc1-q-waR6w-YnwAhy9kjLx-LWr5rS1v3vK1CIgM0QFtH4d/budman68test2.bmp)

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 26, 2010, 07:02:11 PM
ART,
Pics were done so forget about the cut off comments in them.
I must say looking pretty good .....only 98 more files to try..... ;)
I will say that the three balls were handled very well and there are other programs out there that fail bitterly with it.  ;D
RICH

BTW folks don't try the simulation!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 26, 2010, 07:10:59 PM
 ART,
Quote
LazyTurn Roughing Rule #1: If any part of a tool is further out in the X than the radial tip, then the roughing may fail and cut into the profile. 

So basicaly your saying your cutting on the back side of the tool and that dosen't work to well.


Quote
I may , soon, force that rule into effect codewise if you testers dont see any reason not to.

I have no comments at this time and need to play some.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 26, 2010, 09:12:17 PM
>>So basicaly your saying your cutting on the back side of the tool and that dosen't work to well.

  No, not really. Lets say you have a diamond bit angled 15degrees to the left. A finish pass will cut with the tip along the trajectory from right to left and will move out so the rear flank doesnt hit
the profile. You must be using very small tool diamters to get those finish passes. General rule shoudl be that if you use the "tool placement" button and click anywhere on the red line, the tool shoudl not clip the profile.

 The .01 will be less accurate than .0001 for example, but what to use depends on length and system speed. Some will find they get 1000 checks per 10 seconds or so, so a 1" toolpath at .0001 will take 10 seconds, a 10" object woudl take 100 seconds.. so the tolerance setting really shoudl depend on the accuracy needed and the length of the piece. We'll fudge aroudn a bit to discover the best setting.

  You will be able to foll it Im sure, I know I can, but for general profiles it shoudl work pretty well. When you fina bad finish pass, ( or roughing) try takign a picture with the bit set to the problem area so I can see the tool error in the profile, it may giev me a hint as to why its happening. On the corner you describe for example, I suspect youd find the tool fits all allong that profile, though
it will cut on thew rear flank.. which is why the profile will be clipped at start and end to make sure it doesnt collide badly. Still much to do but its looking liek a good start anyway. :)

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on January 27, 2010, 10:50:40 AM
Hi Art
i have been looking on the forum from time to time waiting for LT just download the test file and looking forward to working with it I'll let you know my finding's, yes not many lathe programs around all kinds of mill programs though funny thing though with so many turning centers what do they use? thanks for sticking with it.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 27, 2010, 06:24:57 PM
Hi,
This is Test #7
See if this will post
Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 27, 2010, 09:39:52 PM
ART,
Don't know if important at this time, but notice the finish cut generated for the 60 deg rotated
tool. I guess that's a good indication as you noted before about the finish cut not following the
profile and cutting into the stock.

I know we requested this before, namely, being able to just get the code for the profile.
Here is my pitch for it. Supose you machine a piece and it's just slightly over size for whatever
 reason. You would be able just to tweak the X axis start point and do another run just
using the code. Additionaly, if one deisred, the profile gcade could be easily modified.

May be a little ahead of things on this one, but where will the start point be for the next pathing
be when a change of tool is required. Will it be offset from say the roughing pass?
Will the tool be positioined based on the tip circle or end of the tool face? Just soemthing to think about.
Maybe it would be nice to have the tool go back to some referenced position.

Is it possible , well rather easily, because you have the info for tip radius and enscribed circle along with
tool rotation angle , to calculate /  provide an X and Z offset to the tool end point?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 27, 2010, 10:59:40 PM
Hi Rich:

  The oscillating seems caused by the tool cutting the profile and emerging on the other side.. Ill have to look into that..
Was the roughing done with the tool at 0 degree's? It doesnt seem to agree with the finish pass??

 Yes, I think I can give you a button for putting out code for just teh profile if you like. Ill add it to the dev list.

 All paths are planned as tip center, not tip end, its why its important the setting of tip radius is correct..

thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 28, 2010, 12:33:46 AM
ART,
Quote
Was the roughing done with the tool at 0 degree's?


Yes.  You don't see it in 30 deg , but I wanted to see if at 60 if the finish pass would fail  or show something obvoius that the pass is not good.

 
Quote
profile if you like. Ill add it to the dev list

My gut tells me it will be used more than you think.

Quote
not tip end, its why its important the setting of tip radius is correct

Yep and understand and certainly can see it from a calculation point of view.
The program will do just fine ie; pathing based on different tools etc, but on the practical side of things the user will have tool setting problems. You can't address that with the program.
Let me try to explain......
Example is threading, you have a threading tool with a radius and most users can't relate how far to back the tool away from the piece / reference  because they don't know where the point of it is relative to the radius center relative to the path.
So i figured if it was easy ( nothing is ) the program could give the user the sharp tip point via an offset from the radius in the X & Z and then the user could manipulate the axes to get the tool into position. The program dosn't need this , it's just a nice feature that the user could use witout calcualting it or measuring it.
Just something that you may want to consider later on as a nicety of the program.

RICH


 

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 28, 2010, 09:29:24 AM
Hi Rich:

>>most users can't relate how far to back the tool away from the piece / reference  because they don't know where the point of it is relative to the radius center relative to the path.

   I'll give some thought to that one and see what I can come up with. Its easy enough for me to simply add the radii back in at post time..perhaps just a checkbox..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 28, 2010, 08:47:17 PM
ART,
Get an error on this one. I can get a finish pass but roughs are a problem.
I worked before in LT.
RICH

MODIFIED: There was a small arc at the end which created the problem as shown in pic #2.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 28, 2010, 09:04:29 PM
Rich:

 I think that one failed before.. it has a very sharp up at one end with a sharp down on top.. creates a spin intersection..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 28, 2010, 09:11:14 PM
See my modified post above. Your memory is better than mine. ;)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 28, 2010, 09:39:24 PM
ART,
I'm getting to really like that tool placement button you added as it allows for easy adjusment of the tool angle
as shown in fig #1.
 
This is not the easiet truning to do and you can see the cut though / osscilation in pic #2.

In pic #3 I changed the approach to machining it with two finish passes, the first worked well, and the
second would have been fine except for the cut thru.Looks like it happens at the beginning of the arc.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 28, 2010, 09:56:50 PM
ART,
Nothing really wrong with this one except for the name of the file.  >:D
I wonder were he's hiding!  ???
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 28, 2010, 10:18:08 PM
TO ALL,
If you wish to try try out LazyTurn or test out the latest version and need a file......

Take a look at Appendix"D" in the LazyTurn Manual as it provides a listing of 80 dxf files along with pictures of each and it's associated reply of this thread. No need to even have CAD!

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on January 29, 2010, 12:02:28 AM
Hi, Rich

I'm wandering in the background.

Chip  :D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 29, 2010, 09:51:35 AM
Hi Rich:

  Yes, those cutoffs are due to trying an undercut. I need to find a solution to that repsonce by the algorithm.
Not bad looking though so far.. looks like its working better than I thought it would as a startup attempt.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 29, 2010, 10:15:38 AM
ART,
I think it's rather solid for just coming out of the box. The hard thing to find... is the little critters and the only way is
to just do as many profiles along with cutting tool combinations. So you also need a diversity of folks , because they all think differently.I'll just keep picking away at the different profiles and see if i can find some common faults.

I like it that you can do more than one finish pass. As shown it takes a number of tools to accomplish the profile.
Will try to  spend a few hours each day fooling with it.

I am not looking for bugs in any of the different buttons etc., and just staying focused on the finish pass.
If i find any by chance will ket you know.
IE; - don't simulate
     - don't try to post code
     - etc.........

RICH



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 29, 2010, 10:49:47 AM
Rich:

  >>Will try to  spend a few hours each day fooling with it.

  Good god, dont go that nuts.. :) ..  Hate to waste as much of your time as I have mine. lol..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 29, 2010, 12:00:49 PM
ART,
If i have the time and in the mood, well time flies. It all has to do with my work training...
namely you look at something and say......what's wrong with this thing!
I want LT to be a program that a user ( and i am one of those users ) will enjoy using such that
they can't find a better program for the buck they spend.
Besides, how else can you attempt to write a meaningfull manual if you haven't gone through all the pitfalls yourself.
Rather spend the time upfront then type replies to user problems later!

If you got the time hopefully we can support your efforts and there will be a nice program for
turners.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: SteinarN on January 30, 2010, 04:03:37 AM
Hi Rich:

  Yes, those cutoffs are due to trying an undercut.
Art

It's maybe a stupid question, but what is an undercut?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 30, 2010, 08:26:50 AM
An under means the tool is cutting UNDER a lip. I guess you could define it as when a stright line in the X from the outter edge of the screen  to the tooltip has to pass thorugh material of the profile. Thats refered to as a undercut area.. The only way to cut such a thing is for the tool to reverse Z direction after entering in order to get out of that area..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 30, 2010, 08:51:49 PM
HI All,
I have done a rather quick update of the manual, a lot of work to be done, but in the mean time here is the link:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.msg62041.html#msg62041

NOTE: I have not done any work on the Appendixes so i split them out of the document as a seperate PDF.
so no need to download the appendixes if you downloaded ver 4 of the manual.

In dynamic LazyTurn times, ;)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on January 31, 2010, 12:07:31 AM
Hello,


When I try to install the new LazyTurn by running Lazyturn.exe I get
the following message:
This application has failed to start because Lvkrn15u.dll was not
found. Re-installing application may fix this problem.


Any ideas what might be happening here?


Thanks,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on January 31, 2010, 01:11:06 AM
I get the same message but I thought it was just me running win 7.

Mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 31, 2010, 08:38:46 AM
kERRY,
HERE ARE THE INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS THAT ARE  IN THE MANUAL:

4.1 LazyTurn  ( LT ) currently can be run independently via hard drive, USB stick
     etc as it’s installation can stand alone.

4.2 When installing Mach3 you are asked if you also want to install LazyCam.
The current lockdown version of Mach3 installs LazyCam 3.00.2. If you are using an older version of Mach3 you may need to install the LazyCam 3.00.2 Update. Both versions can be downloaded from
the ArtSoft site. Here is the link:

http://www.machsupport.com/downloads.php
                

4.3 You can either update LazyCam 3.00.2 by installing the update or create another directory for a stand alone installation, but both versions must be installed for LazyTurn to work.

                "LazyCam 3.00.2 Update" is a special build that includes additional  required
                 files.

4.4 Now you will need to update the LazyTurn application file to the most recent version posted. As of  1/30/2010, The latest application file posted is:
Re:LazyTurn thread, reply #1170, page 118

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,5767.msg91769.html#msg91769

   Download and unzip the above file and copy the LazyTurn application file into the directory you installed Lazycam.  You will replace the existing  file that is there.

 Once installed, you can play with LazyTurn by running lazyturn.exe in the resultant folder.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 31, 2010, 08:47:02 AM
Attached is the file but i would do a reinstall. Rename the file
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 01, 2010, 12:05:37 AM
Thanks Rich, that did it.

Can't wait till it's possible to generate code with a finish pass. We will be using it regularly in our shop.

Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 01, 2010, 11:39:52 AM
ART,
This one seems to highlight problems.  It's 8.dxf from reply#247on page 227.
Even if not a practical piece or easy one to do, still can test many combinations of tools  to
see where something faults.
Actualy LT is not doing anything that we haven't already discovered. In fact  LT is doing a rather good
job on it. I have shown four different finish passes. Now if you can resolve the commonality of faults
it just may suprise us. If the pathing was to terminate at the faulted places then probably multiple finish
passes would work just fine. 

Too much to post in one reply so here is a Word file. You can then comment modifying the word file if you wish.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 01, 2010, 02:40:05 PM
Rich:

  yup, youve pretty much identified what I see as the troubles remaining. Though I also see one rough pass seems to end early for some reason in the right center half way in the X dimension..

 Undercuts are a bitch as they make a decision tough on when to pull out ( or left or right) and how much.. Im working on a more detailed algorithm to identify those tough points for special processing..

 Thx for the detailed results.. Ill yell soon when I have a new version for testing to see if I can better eliminate those sticky points..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on February 02, 2010, 03:24:15 AM
Nice to see that lazy turn will be done before my lathe.  LOL

Hi Rich, after reading your prior post 4 times I was able to get lazy turn up and running on my win7 computer. Thanks for the tips.

Hi Art,
Not that it is critical at this time but on my Win7 laptop Lazy turn opens and imports a dxf nicely. If I move the mouse over one of the arrows on screen or make a tool modification that requires a screen redraw I get an open GL error: stack overflow.

In the grand scheme of things not running on Win7 is not the end of the world. I can always setup a winxp computer but It would be nice to have all my cad/cam on one machine.

Having never used cam for the lathe it looks nice so far.
It is more motivation to get the lathe up and running.
Thanks for the hard work.

Mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 02, 2010, 10:16:10 AM
Hi Mike:

  Point taken, I run a Win7 computer next to my development computer ( XP), Ill run some tests on Win7..

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 02, 2010, 09:15:21 PM
Totallyrc,
Have a look at Appendix "F" of the manual
Can you post your laptop PC  info as i have made a collection of info on them that have been replied to in this thread.
LazyTurn only.......... :D
The appendix is just a storing place for pc related info at the moment but at least you dont have to look through 120 pages to find related info.
Thanks,  ;)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on February 03, 2010, 03:34:27 AM
Hi Rich,
Acer Aspire 5720Z
Intel Pentium Dual T2330 @1.6GHZ. 2Gb of ram. It was a Vista machine but I upgraded to win7 home premium. Fresh install.
I have a 3.0 score on the gaming graphics but it runs Aero just fine.

My cad program, Viacad runs well along with Mach3 and anything else I have tried to install.
It also runs Machscreen without any problems.

If you need more info, just ask.

I will try to install it on a different computer and report back to see if it works there.

I see the Bug Killer is still at it.
Thank you for the hard work on the manual and I just might actually read it as I have a cold and have taken today off.

If it truly is an open gl problem it would be great if there was a test that could be run before installing LT.

I will look to see if there are any updates to the open GL for my laptop.

Mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 03, 2010, 09:15:41 AM
Hi Guys:

  I tested on my Win7 box a few minutes ago.. no errors seen. I too think its an opengl issue. ( they can be a bugger ).

Id suggest a video card driver update if you can find one..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 03, 2010, 09:17:44 AM
Thanks Mike,
The only thing i found was loosing the pentagon color and i can live with that.
Will take a look later at my  new pc later.
Windows 7 will just have to waite on my end.
So LOL,

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on February 03, 2010, 12:20:31 PM
Well I got it to work.
I updated to the latest version of Lazyturn with the finish pass and it now works. There are no updates to my video driver as it is the latest.
I will work with it some more and see how it goes.

It really helps to RTFM.

Mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 03, 2010, 05:21:13 PM
Quote
It really helps to RTFM

One convinced and only 999 more to go  ;D .....that's why it was witten  ;)

Glad you got her working!
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on February 07, 2010, 11:58:57 PM
Art,

The red line looks good on my project.  Turn the output on!

I don't understand what "Final Pass," "Per Pass," and "Tolerance" are for.  They don't seem to be functional.  Only "Clearance" makes any difference in the red line's position.

Regards,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on February 08, 2010, 03:05:48 AM
Art,

I should know better than to ask, but........

My projects are wood.  My cutting tool is symmetrical and cuts in both directions, but LT only cuts in one direction.

Any chance that LT could get an option to cut in both directions in the rough pass? 

It saves a lot of time.  I've modified one of my LT projects by hand to cut bidirectionally. It saved over 30sec and I saw no difference in the finished product.

Thanks again,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on February 08, 2010, 05:38:47 AM
Hi Rich and Art.
Rich, I have sat down with a cup of coffee, a dxf file and played with the program and didn't get too far. So I read the FREAKING manual again.
I also had Lazyturn open at the same time. Much easier to understand. Nice job on the manual and so far I haven't got to the point you have lost me.

Hi Art,
I am with the rest of the crew, turn the finish path on already. If nothing else it will be a great way to do those simple files.
Make everyone read a 100 page paper on how it will probably break their lathe or something. Then turn it on!!!!!!

Well I guess I could say more but since Lazyturn is progressing quite well I guess I should start progressing more on the lathe. LOL

Mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 08, 2010, 07:11:23 AM
Yes I agree, please turn it on.  :)

Thanks,
Kerry Harrison
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 08, 2010, 08:19:46 AM
Quote
I don't understand what "Final Pass," "Per Pass," and "Tolerance" are for.  They don't seem to be functional.
 Only "Clearance" makes any difference in the red line's position.

Here is an anology:
Lets cut the grass on your front lawn. There is nothing in the way from the side walk until
you get near the house which has bushes and flowers planted all along the front of the house
in an irregulary shaped edged landscape.
Two grass cutters of different width's will be used.
The wide lawn mower is used first starting at the sidewalk. So you are going to make ROUGH passes
until you get close to the front landscaping. Each time you  make a cut across the lawn you have made
 a PASS at cutting the grass. All of the wide cuts can be called a rough pass.

The next door neighbor dosn't want you cutting his lawn. He watches you cut the grass and is
 making notes on each and every step you make and in his note book he is writing down all the PATHING
you have taken. To not cut his grass, you leave a small amount  CLEARANCE which will be cut using the
 smaller grass mower.


Now it is  time to  remove the grass close to the edged part in front of the house. This FINE pass will require using
 the smaller mower. So you make a number of pases. The first time you try to cut the irregular shape
you leave a CLEARANCE mowing away in a somewhat varied way but never cutting into the the reamining grass.

All that remains to FINISH cutting the grass is to edge along the landscape. You  will edge such that there
 is no grass, so "0" clearance. The edger can only cut so much and you want a nice clean cut so the FINAL
PASS will be very small. It will take a number of cuts so each cut is limited PER PASS.
Your very carefull when edging the lawn. You watch the edger cutting along the ladnscape and also keep
looking ahead of it so you can adjust how the edging is happening. If you only look ahead once in a while
the edging will go quite quickly, but if you are constantly looking at the actual edge cutting and just in front of it
it will take you longer to edge the landscape. That looking at and ahead of the cutting is called TOLERANCE
for the finish pass.

-------------------
Currently LT dosen't show the pathing for each finish pass and all you see is a red line / the edging.
From a testing point fo view, all we are interested in is if the final finish pass will follow the contour of the profile.
within some set clearance.

So in the manual, on page 20, are the preliminary definitions for each item associated with the finish pass.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 08, 2010, 08:33:12 AM
Quote
TURN ON THE FINISH PASS

We would all like to have the finsh pass done and turned on.....
But if it has known problems that have not been resolved........... then why do it!
Then all the effort will be to answer questions on why something is not working instead of testing and
and eliminating the problems in the first place.

BTW, if you want code for just the profile you can get it using LazyCam. 

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 08, 2010, 09:10:42 AM
Quote
on the manual


I strongly recomend that any new user of LT spend an hour and read through it.
Simply put, the manual will give you a definition of each and every tab, input, flyout, etc.
You can't absorb it all in one sitting. But at least you have a flavor of what's in it and where info can be found.
Then you just click on each and every button and see what happens. Pay attention to the figures. Topics requiring addtional info are delineated in the appendix. I will update it as things progress, particularily the definitons, its pretty
good up to about page 40. A whole lot better than looking through 123 pages of replies. 

If you post a question, and it is covered in the manual, you will see responses from me to see section or figure ......
sorry,  but that saves me a whole bunch of time. I do question myself if the manual is clear as it relates to the question.


RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 08, 2010, 09:38:41 AM
Hi Guys:


   Sorry, but I was waylaid for a couple weeks on important engine code experiments. Sadly, they failed in most part, but did end in some tighter
control in the driver. Anyway, back to LTurn. I did find a couepl of roughing errors this week and fixed them, and now Im back on the finish pass.

  The finish security profile, ( the red line) does appear to work well except in the case of undercuts wich cause a cutthrough. But since this may take
awhile to figure out as an algorithmic solution, I will now begin to finalize the way the fiinish pass will be output. This means not just a red line, but
actually several of them working outword until no more materuial is cut. This is to make sure the tool is not stressed beyond the PerPass specification ( unused at present ).

  Ill release when I have a test version, though it probably still wont post until Im satisfied the final passes look good and woudl make sense in a cutting context.

At that point Ill release a version that posts the finish pass code, shouldnt be too long after the consolidation, which may happen this week.
As to undercuts, we'll head bang together after that to solve the last thing needing solving before we can possibly call this a released program.


Just so you know.. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 08, 2010, 11:36:00 AM
Hi Guys:

  This version fixes some roughing issues, and displays the fine path not as a red line, but as a red/blck checkered line. The checkers show the actual line divisions, the red line I used to show you
was made up of thousands of small lines, ( tolerance in length), this version is now culling that line to create straight line segments in preperation for moving the path outwards by ( PerPass) amount to create the actual toolpath from that original multi point red line.

   Im working on the next steps. They include making an offset contour of the checkered line by the perpass distance, checking to see if that lien cuts any material, and repeating if it does. The path will stop contouring outwards when it senses no cut woudl occur, then the entire sequence of lines will be reversed in order and compromise a finihs toolpath. At that piont Ill post it out. I may give you the
option of just posting the checkered profile shortly as a first step in the development sequence.


Just to keep you filled in.
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 08, 2010, 11:41:16 AM
By the way, srroy for all the Tpyos ltaely , I dnot tpyillcy raed waht I wtire .

Tohguh, tehy say taht as lnog as the frist and lsat ltetrs are prpoer you shuoldnt ntoice
if your IQ is hgih enuogh to run the sfotwear aynawy
:)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on February 08, 2010, 11:49:20 AM
Quote
TURN ON THE FINISH PASS

We would all like to have the finsh pass done and turned on.....
But if it has known problems that have not been resolved........... then why do it!
Then all the effort will be to answer questions on why something is not working instead of testing and
and eliminating the problems in the first place.

BTW, if you want code for just the profile you can get it using LazyCam.  

RICH


Why do it?

I guess if it works for the basic stuff just put it out as completely unsupported option leaving it up to the user to check and verify.

For many users this may be enough. I understand that the under cuts are a problem so I won't use under cuts.

I hate writing code by hand but if I just have to check and maybe edit a little bit then that is better.

All of this talk of having a usable lathe cam program has reignited the fire to get the lathe done.
I now have the spindle under CNC control and will have to draw up the servo motor mounts.

Back at it.

Mike

Typo shmypo, as long as Lazyturn works, who cares about the typos??

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 09, 2010, 08:07:08 PM
Glad your back at LT Art. Another 1 -2  feet of snow tomorrow so i should get a chance to play with it some more.
I'll post whatever i find.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 10, 2010, 09:22:47 AM
A few points made with the attached, FWIW.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 10, 2010, 10:18:53 AM
Rich:

 Thx, I see when you use .0001 the fine screws up, this is beacuse the line culler to shorten the number of entities
is checking to see if , given three sequential points, the second point is within .0001 of a line between the first and third,
if so, its rejected as superflous. I think I need to change that to be smaller than .0001 so that in tight tolerance it doesnt end up rejecting everything.

  The rest maes sense, Ill see what I can do to optimise as soon as the posting of the finsih is done. I decided to get it to the stage of
posting the finish passes, and we'll then just deal with tightening it all up so it works as well as it can. THEN, Ill finally deal with the mind-numbing issue of
making an algorithm to correct for undercuts. At that point, Ill release the program as Release 1.0 and let the public have at it. :-)

  Ill at least get the posting of the finsh passes done as I promised for this winter.. undercuts may or may not get done this season by the look of the
time flow..

Thx for the tests and excellent doc's of the results..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 10, 2010, 02:14:28 PM
 ART,
Glad they helped. It also gives a new user an approach to using LT and may shorten the learning curve.

As far as the manual, I would envision it would lag by about a month, but, there would be a
 concurrent revision very soon after the release. I will probably just lump a whole bunch of comments
 into an appendix callled verbage holding.This would save comments that may apply at a future time.

A new thread may be in order once it's released since the manual along with appendix will cover all
 of the replies in this thread.

Till the next update,
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 12, 2010, 12:12:49 PM
Hi Guys:

  Thought youd like to see latest output showing proposed finish pass only, with no roughing..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 12, 2010, 12:18:32 PM
Sure did !
Looks GOOD !
Thanks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 12, 2010, 12:25:06 PM
HMM....
So the cuts of the finish pass will follow the profile contour and not like some other programs where they do small
X / Z moves with just a final profile cut.
Correct?  way to go!

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on February 12, 2010, 12:27:35 PM
I'm stoked,
I may have to give up sleep this weekend to finish the lathe just to try it out.

It just gets better and better.
Way to go Art.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on February 12, 2010, 12:44:30 PM
And yet another work of "Art"  ;D

Sorry, I realize that one's been beaten to death but I bet Art never gets tired of hearing/reading it.

Thanks, Art, it looks fantastic-
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 12, 2010, 01:27:58 PM
Rich:

 Yes, the final pass will always be the full countour, but the pre-rouging of the finish pass will be the lines I show in the example, but culled to lines only that actually take material out of the
remaining stock from other roughing and finish passes which may have been done. SO the only time youd get passes as above, is if you hadnt roughed or finished with another tool.

Art

Im just gratefull its still pretty lazy to use, Im trying to keep user selections to a minimum.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on February 12, 2010, 01:38:23 PM
Hi Art,
To make it any lazier, you would have to make it load the machine for you.

Just my 2 cents but for most of us it looks like it is already done. The undercuts and other assorted crazy stuff are for the future, not so lazy cam.LOL

Mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 12, 2010, 01:42:54 PM
ART,
So you will leave the finish as shown in the example such that a rough or finish pass is not "mandatory".
Will LT post code for those lines?.....or is it just a visual when no rough & finish were done.

RICH

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 12, 2010, 01:53:15 PM
Rich:

  Ive decided that how or if you rough is up to you. If you dont rough, youll get exactly ( pretty much ) as you see in the picture. BUT , if you were to do another
finish with another tool, you may get only the one finish pass, or mayeb two or three outward, depending on how muach material remains fromt he first finish
operations.
  So the general rule for any rough or finish is it will post code only for motions that remove material.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 12, 2010, 02:00:30 PM
ART,
Would it be possible to put a restraint, prior to generating code, such that the generated Gcode would stop somewhere along the Z?  I am thinking,  as a posting option one could say ie; the piece is 4" long but only create code for the first 2" of the profile.  So that posting option would allow one simple breakup of profile.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 12, 2010, 02:35:47 PM
That would be a super handy option.
Very worthwile imo.
Thanks for suggesting it Rich.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 12, 2010, 02:55:57 PM
Rich:

  Yup, already considering that one.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 12, 2010, 09:19:57 PM
Anybody else seeing differences in the roughing... from Dec 14 to Feb 8 ?
Same settings/tools.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 12, 2010, 09:36:58 PM
...actually, the roughing on this particular profile went awry here with Jan 26_2010.
Cannot make the Dec release fail.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 12, 2010, 11:41:59 PM
Hi:

Can you post that dxf.. Ill give it a shot

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 12, 2010, 11:46:25 PM
Russ,
See if it is gouging. May also want to post the dxf and also try a Visual Intersect Diags
on it.  ???

RICH

MODIFIED: THE DXF IS NOT RUSS'S BUT IS CLOSE TO IT IN SIZE
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 13, 2010, 12:02:41 AM
Russ,
Zoom way in at the point and then use the TEST TOOL LOCATION in Debug and place the tool on the
upper pass. Zoom WAY out again. I my case, i can see the gouge in the lower section and then in the upper one
it is not gouging or say .0001" on rough measurement.

Note that scan line diagnostics are done with the gouging "off".

I would have thought that the path after the gouge would have started earlier.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 08:39:50 AM
Hey .. thanks for looking at it.
 Here is the dxf and the tool.
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 08:44:16 AM
These two pics.
Exactly the same duplicate setups.
Feb8_2010
Normal attempt, and scan line diagnostics.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 08:55:21 AM
I see what you are seeing too Rich, but something has changed.

.....and if you put your tool tip ON the generated path in your close-up pic, it will not gouge. You are showing it ON the profile.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 13, 2010, 09:41:06 AM
Russ,
Looking at it now.
Can you post what rough cuts you did?
Seems like something is getting corrupted, as i play with it.
I tried a cut depth of .2  and ever since that, LT is acting buggy with your tool.

It's funny, you can try all kinds of complex files and the simple ones are the ones that
create problems sometimes.

One thing that i notice is that you are using "side" in tool data which i very seldom use , maybe that is the culprit. ???

Need to experiment some more..........

RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 10:08:41 AM
Rich,
  Side or End makes no difference here, just need to change the angle accordingly.

Pullout Clearance   0.1
Stock Clearance    0.0   (tried various)
Depth PP             0.1

With the tool centered, it looks fine. problem occurs when angling it.
Almost looks like Art is preventing a collision with the heel of the holder ...maybe ?

Here is a pic of how I assume it should be. For this type of tool, there is nothing there to collide behind the tool.
Only limitation would be the projection of the holder from the tool post.
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2010, 10:21:01 AM
Hi Guys:

  My fault, I missed a boolean reset wehn a double hit of the tool is sensed. This version will fix it up, or seems to on my tests.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 13, 2010, 10:28:54 AM
See attached file as mine looks different.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 10:38:10 AM
ALL BETTER !
Just as before...THANKS Art,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 13, 2010, 10:40:43 AM
wITH FEB-13 VERSION

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 13, 2010, 10:51:10 AM
ART,
Shouldn't the right tool cut to the right?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 11:01:51 AM
Rich, It will cut to the right if you remove the - from the 22
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 13, 2010, 11:04:07 AM
Thanks Russ....another little note to bury in the manual so only you know. :D
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 11:09:30 AM
I get the same general results as you do in your pdf (didn't duplicate every entry though) with the previous release.
The new ver seems good as new here, I'll post anything else I might find that confuses me.
Thanks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 13, 2010, 11:15:22 AM
Hmm...
I will take back my last post, back many "moons" ago, and i don't know when, the tool would cut with the negative tool angle. ( figure 7.4.3 in the manual shows it along with path results in figure 7.4.8 ).

ART,
Can you clarify?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 01:18:15 PM
A pos. END selection is equal to a neg. SIDE selection...and vice-versa.

Art, I have a question about the convention you are using for the TOOL ANGLE setting.
Forgive me if this has been explained before.
It appears that you have "0" as being the symmetrical centerline of the insert perpendicular to the centerline of the spindle.
In other CAM's I see this angle as a "Presentation Angle" where that angle setting refers to the relationship of the actual cutting edge of the insert to the material being cut.
 Where "0" is the cutting edge square to the surface (turning or facing) ,
a POS entry is a clearance or relief from the material and a NEG value is INTO the material.
For instance...a Right hand 35 degree diamond with a Tool Angle setting of 5 would do right hand turning to a shoulder and facing with a 5 deg clearance. The same setting in LT would be -22.5 SIDE (22.5 END) to get the same result.
Not sure which is most commonly used but the latter seems simpler to use...Unless of course it would require a lot of rework on your part. Don't want you to back up any more than necessary at this point.
Also, in your "Lft Center Rt" tool selector, would be nice if when there is a tool angle set the final tool would "mirror" automatically when clicking Lft or Rt instead of having to change the Pos and Neg in the angle box.....or the SIDE/END.
Just curious,
RC
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 02:04:42 PM
Art...sorry if I broke it.
Roughing is all well....but...the Fine when nuts with the last change.
Feb 8 fine is OK , do you guys see any difference now with the FINE ?
RC

edit: I get 15 fine passes no matter what I try. (the red and black from Feb8 is gone as well)

Anybody else ?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 13, 2010, 04:55:05 PM
Hi:

  :), thats because its still a work in progress and thats where I was at when I updated the file for you to fix roughing..

Ill get back to you guys on the tool angles, when Ive had a chance to revisit them . In the end they can do pretty much as you wish, they are
just polygon generators..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 13, 2010, 05:19:39 PM
Even posts and runs in Turn.......well sort off.  ;D
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 13, 2010, 06:27:13 PM
Okee dokee. :)
Thanks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on February 14, 2010, 04:18:54 AM
Hi, Art

Very nice progress, Hears a little glitch in the final pass with a cutoff tool, I think.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 19, 2010, 10:05:44 AM
Hi Guys:

   This is a version with some new code for added stability, and the final pass is nearly complete to the level of posting code. Next step
if this works will be to output that final passes as Gcode. It shoudl work either direction cut, and should create passes with or without roughing
as a prerequisite.

   Downside is that every finish pass must run from start to finish as one pass, it cannot stop on a pass that isnt cutting anythign at the moment.
It is smart enough to create only the number of passes required however. Try a rough, then finish it with a finsh to see what I mean. It will
generate just enough passes that each cuts something, so your clearance, and pass depths now matter. The stock is now updated as well to show what the
finished cut will look lie. Youll notice that a finish pass makes a lot of difference , and you dont need to cut such small roughing passes to get the
end product to look as close to the drawing as possible. ( which I think is what we really want. :) )

Art
 

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 19, 2010, 10:24:57 AM
Will have a look at it....
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 19, 2010, 10:38:49 AM
Hi ART..Looking great.  :)
This is 2 roughs, 1each direction..and 2 fines, 1 each direction with the same tool, different depth settings.
All is as expected.......except....the only thing missed is the fine cuts at Z 0 end.
?
Thanks,
Russ

Actually, the last fin pass followed the profile, the first 3 are "out there".  (pic 2)
Matters not which direction the fin is run...same result. All else is great !
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 19, 2010, 10:57:45 AM
Hi:

 Thx, good point. The secondary finish passes are being clipped to the same Y as the next point, that doesnt seem to work. I'll have to make a line
intersection and do it with intersection code instead. Good bug find..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 19, 2010, 11:02:05 AM
..couple more examples. Radiussed ends look OK.
Chamferred ends, some go to X 0, and some dont.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on February 19, 2010, 02:40:20 PM
Hi Art,

Thanks for the update and I'm looking at it now. One quick thing, when running the "SIM" of the finish pass, it seems to run the last pass (the final pass) first?

When I blow up the view, I can see when running the sim, that the cutter is closest to the part on the first pass, and then moves away from the part to the second before that last pass, and so on. We're not able to post code yet so I couldn't check to see if it really was doing that, and thought I should mention it.

Hope that makes sense, and if it's not an issue, just ignore me..  ;D

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 19, 2010, 04:19:14 PM
Looking good Art,
As usual some reading material......need to play with some more files though
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 19, 2010, 04:40:46 PM
ART,
This set of conditions will make LT close / bomb!
See attached.

BTW, I think you knew i would try this file and it's all a set up and your laughing you ask off.... ;D
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 19, 2010, 08:11:04 PM
Ill give it a shot and let you know why. : )

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 19, 2010, 08:47:57 PM
Hi guys,
  Rich, from A18, your first two pics.
The tool tip radius is too large and/or the stock is not big enough at the large ball.
The remaining material there is not => the depth of the cut.
The tool path displayed represents the radius point of the tool tip (.016) which is why it shows so far from the profile with a Clearance set at .001
Either increase the stock dia., or reduce the tip radius and it does much better.

Here is the same file (I think) with a tip rad. of .005    Other settings are the same as yours.
I think this is what we saw some time back.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.........I'm used to it. :D
Russ ;D
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 19, 2010, 10:16:38 PM
Russ,
See attached, i may be confused.......the tool will follow the path line and when it does it will cut some of that material.
dosen't matter if it is a rapid back or at feed rate. I would need to simulate again to see the direction of travel.
Placement of the tool is based on the center of the tool tip radius and i just spotted another in green outline. When i zoomed way out the dims were ok, just that the display didn't seem right.

Yep, i can get it to do the piece, change tools or rough / finish combinations that would work nicely. Your comment on enlarging the stock or reducing the tip radius is understood and used here.       BUT
Rather than just using tools that make sense, I just try to break it / find faults  and not necessarily make it work.........at times....... if that makes any sense.

I wish we had a hundred folks like us in here as there are so many combinations to try. Intuitively we seem to find bads.  

I didn't go back and check ART's definiton on the placement so i could be goofed up.

Rich

MODIFIED: ADDED CAPTURE OF THE SIMULATION OF THE TOOL
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 20, 2010, 12:06:20 AM
I think we may need one more rule here, maybe code it in.
RULE: Pullout Clearance for selected Rough Pass must be => the Radius of the selected Tool Tip.
That would correct this problem if one was to ignore the First Pass rule below.
  First scan line must continue the complete length of the profile.
I know you're just trying to break it Rich.....lol
I just tend to take a more practical approach.
Looking pretty good so far though.
Russ

edit:
Actually 3 things that will make this work:
1. Reduce tip rad...or                                  (.006")
2. Increase stock dia for full SLD first pas..or   (.005")   in this case
3. Increase the Pullout Clearance.                 (.006")
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 20, 2010, 12:20:32 PM
Russ,
How about instead of rules we change the verbage to guidelines / whatever .......
There is a section / appendix, currently called Practical Machining Considerations, that will try and talk
about what you said in reply above. I am thinking this section would be same as the drawing one but different subject.
If you have any more, just post your thoughts in any manner,   and will question for understanding of them later.
BTW, That section hasn't been worked on for some time.

Thinking out load on RULES.......There are going to be some for sure, I am thinking that a rule will be
something that just needs to be done because of say some limitation or restiction in the software.

----------------
I am still playing some with the roughs and finish passes....
Let me try to explain, larger profiles are easier, small ones can be more difficult i think, as the inputs become small in value
 verses the profile the calculations approach very small  values and then passes are affected. It could also be influenced by the number value combinations.

On a convex or concave curve the pathing seems to struggle  with that small remaining volume.

Now from a practical point of view, maybe it's insignificant, in that the machine dosn't have the capability to do or maintain  the number passes anyway.

One last ramble.....
A user dosen't read anything, just uses nonsense or improper tools against a crappy profile and wonders why something dosen't work,  but sometimes that is exactly what finds a bug.......

Hacking away when in the mood,  :D
RICH



  
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 20, 2010, 05:41:09 PM
Sure Rich....whatever you wish as you're likely to be the one ritin' it.  ;D
I understand what you are doing, I tried some files with settings that were...lets say... Not appropriate for the job at hand and got some pretty wacky results as well.
I credit myself with that fault and don't expect the SW to do everything for me.  ::)
It's great that you are stressing this "ARTwork" to the limits, it really makes it show its true colors and certainly can point to underlying problems.
However, I will continue to test the best I can here by just using what I have come to consider more conventional approaches.
Together, maybe we can corner them bugs and head em' off at the pass. :)

Here as a simple turning,  ROUGH, right to left, then left to right.
                                    FIN,              "       ,            "
All is good except the first FIN.   right to left (see pic)
Same tool (just flipped)...same settings for both roughs....and FINs.
DXF too.   (next reply)


Thanks Rich,
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 20, 2010, 05:45:45 PM
 :)
For previous post.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: MachMotion Development Team on February 23, 2010, 10:47:30 AM
Hi All,

I have been watching this form for a while and the work you are all doing look great!  I was curious if you had plans to make LazyTurn create gcode for ID parts instead of only OD parts?

Thanks,
Andrew
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 23, 2010, 01:02:22 PM
Andrew,
 Goes back along time, but Art said inside wouldn't be done until Lt replaced the LazyCam lathe module totally.
Maybe he'll give us an update on what he expects for now and the possible future development.
See section 3.0 in the manual.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 23, 2010, 01:17:02 PM
Hi Guys:

  The errors in the messages above this one turned out to be the Tolerance setting. The offsetting proceedures I use are a
solid modeling library from open source. It seems to fail when the lines are too coarse. Ill come up with a solution eventually,
but settin the tollerance lower on the finish makes the path proper. I may have to dictate the toelrance internally, but I resist that for time sensitivity
reasons. Ill give it some thought.

 As to the last letter on future plans...

   I have quite a few internal projects Im working on, and several just in my head. They fight each other for time slices, and Im known to often swap
about so projects DO take time in my "retirement".
  My original plan was to have a button which rotates the work 90 degrees, to become a facing and internal cut engine. Most of the code would still work.
But Im not sure when Ill get there. SO my current plan is to get finish paths posting then work on the following schedule of desires.

1) Undercut repair so we can do files wih undercut.

2) An editiing mode to draw or create /save as dxf/ profiles. that way no cad is required except for complex work maybe.


     Thats all I really plan ahead to, we'll see after that how it goes. My plan is to release this as freeware for the general community. Hopefully
after the finshing is done.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 23, 2010, 02:35:10 PM
ART,
So will lazyCam just be left as it is?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 23, 2010, 02:41:06 PM
That's good to know, thanks Art.
Been experimenting with long tapers and having various problems with FIN, Rough is perfect.
.01Tolerance is as expected (current problem posted earlier), but .001 does unexpected path down the centerline of the part.
Please try this dxf and see what FIN will work.
Thought it might be the needle point, so I redrew it with a small flat on the end and get the same results.
Thanks,
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 23, 2010, 03:19:36 PM
Rich:

  No, the plan is to remove the turn section from it eventually, and make it mill only with the new import code that I use in LTurn.
I wont do that until LTurn basically replaces LCam's functions.

  I wont be real fast though, I have another project coming up shortly in the 3d printing world..

Art

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 23, 2010, 03:40:51 PM
ART,
Just took a look and LT has been 2 years in the making. Maybe just need to clean up the finish and let her post.  That way you get possible
involvement of a lot of users on real applications. If the song is too long sometimes the audience may be lost.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 23, 2010, 07:01:02 PM
Getting Error 215 and 219 pretty regular now on the Joust.dxf when attempting a FINE with .001 tol.

Ran the diagnostics output with a FINE and the errors went away but the FINE path is still awry.

Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 23, 2010, 08:28:55 PM
FOR FILE IN REPLY 1287 / JOUST.DXF. Not getting any errors but fines are not right.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 23, 2010, 08:43:45 PM
Tried a number of different fines at or under .001 tolerance, no numbered errors.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 23, 2010, 09:56:41 PM
Nice documentation Rich. I get the diagonal to the centerline at the left end on occasion as well.

Here is a combo the gives me the 215 ..... three times in a row. Can you see anything obvious that I might be missing ?
Also, on occasion one error or the other would just close the dxf file and leave a fresh LT screen where other times it shuts lt down and asks for an error report.

Not sure how to duplicate 219...will try.

Thanks Rich,
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 23, 2010, 09:59:29 PM
just for kicks...tried the same in RADIUS mode as well as DIAMETER.
Same error.
Just a shot.
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 23, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
Rich:

  No question. I didnt mean to say Ill be dropping work any time soon, in fact I hope to have posting out by next week of the finish passes.
Then a few weeks of bug fixes and perhaps undercut compensation will get done before I move to the next time slice. I dont think it will be
long before LTurn is set as Release 1.0A .

   It may not do everything people want, but it will do much better than LazyCam could do.. Till next time slice when it
will do more. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 23, 2010, 11:10:47 PM
Adding this feature to the JOUST profile somehow eliminates the 215 error.
(did this to justify the .001 tol setting)
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 24, 2010, 08:36:24 AM
Russ,
I get a 219 error with your combination shown in reply 1293 and LT shuts down then.
I don't think your missing anything as the rough and finish passes are reasonable.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on February 24, 2010, 08:44:42 AM
Art,

I'm embarrassed to bring up such a small point, but........
Before you put LT back on the shelf please remember that "Zoom in" and "Zoom out" are reversed, compared to AutoCAD.

Regards,
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 24, 2010, 08:45:25 AM
Thanks Rich.   219 ? ? ?
I get 215.
I cant produce the 219 now.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 24, 2010, 11:00:15 AM
Dave:

  Sorry, I missed that till now as I dont use Autocad. Ill make a note to change that in upcoming releases.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 24, 2010, 11:24:03 AM
Hi Guys:

  Well, I guess weve hit that milestone of getting to posting of the finish passes. Obviously we still have some bugs to
deal with , but Im releaseing this anyway because Ill be gone down south for a week, and figured some of you could
at least get a finish pass on those things that DO work..

  Keep reporting.. Ill catch up when I return. This version will also be psted as release 1.0 in the laztcam download, Rich's
excellent manual is included in the release package as well as his example from the docs. Ill compile a list of examples to
add for the next official release.

Be back soon.. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 24, 2010, 11:40:26 AM
Art
Wow Thanks i have been waiting a very long time for turn thanks for getting it this far i will give it a whirl and see how it works.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 24, 2010, 11:47:06 AM
Yahoo! A finish pass last!! Can't wait to try it.

Thanks a million Art!

Kerry Harrison
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 24, 2010, 11:52:18 AM
Hi:

 Just be vcery carefull, check your paths carefully before cutting. I did one this moprning and it was fine,
but as we all know, its early to say it works, bugs definitely exist.. that having been said, your finished object
is about to look a whole lot better that before.. The jaggies are gone.. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on February 24, 2010, 12:38:46 PM
Thanks Art , it still is getting better every new update.

Thanks again:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 24, 2010, 03:59:17 PM
ART,
Enjoy the sun. Will check the release out and hopefully finish some sections of the manual while your away.
But most of all just want to do one turning from it, sort of like taking the new car out for it's first ride.  ;)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 24, 2010, 07:00:38 PM
Guy's i have updated Mach to the latest version and went to install the latest version of LT but now i can't find the green LT icon in the Mach folder to copy LT to why dose this happen aaaaah.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 24, 2010, 08:51:41 PM
ART,
Here is my  first actualy cutting test using LazyTurn. Not bad at all. Didn't realize that no ARC coding was posted until it was done machining. ???
May be wrong, but need arc coding to get a real nice finish or an increased tolerance as that would minimise the straights around the ball.
You can see them in the pics.  Attached pic is  of rough, 1st finish, 2nd  finish, and completed piece.

I decided to do a quick new Appendix "A" and rough draft is attached.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 24, 2010, 09:04:33 PM
Dennis,
Where did you put it?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 24, 2010, 09:30:58 PM
Rich:

 Yes, its my intent to make a lines->arc algorithm to replace the flats. (which are the size of "tolerance" ) as set in the fine path dialog.
Dunno how hard that will be, but we'll see. ;)

Art

Nice looking cut. At least it shows having a finish really makes a difference.. :)


 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 25, 2010, 10:14:57 AM
ART,
Just some ideas on posting options, as usual, don't know if easy or difficult but here's some thoughts along with reasoning.

1. Be able to pick a pathing stop point along the Z axis ( mentioned before ). This allows you to break up a profile for machining at a low
level. It would be nice if it also had a starting point, but, keeping it simple for now.

2. Scale option. Use of program diameter ruler is rather restrictive. Once the code or pathing is done, have an option for scaling one or both
axes. This would be the equivilant of using the scale function currently available in Mach.  

Let me ramble on some.........
Let's assume that a user dosn't have any CAD ( you mention about later on creating a drawing utility ). So as an interim,I am thinking that a supplied cad drawing done to a scale of  1 unit, with a few basic shapes on it, would allow code generation equivilant to the what the current wizards would provide. Then the user could actualy build a rather simplistic machining operation up prior to and outside of LT via cut and pasting of code. This provides a lot of functionality ( non- automatic i may add ) but provides for some of the more complex operations which higher level CAM programs have built in.

Thinking for easy / lazy ways to do some things but not burden down your efforts in developing the program. So in interim it provides for manipulation by the user and responsibilty falls on them.

Just a few thoughts....

RICH

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 25, 2010, 10:25:05 AM
Just two pic's about the flats. Remember that, depending on your lathe system, your results may vary in the end. ;)
The pics provide for actual cutting / finished piece realtive to what your seeing in the program when you zoom into the pathing.
And watch out for those feed rates you input...........now your cutting ! :D
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 25, 2010, 10:34:03 AM
Rich,
  What is the actual radius of the piece you cut ? (didn't see it mentioned)
Looks good, nice illustration.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 25, 2010, 10:46:17 AM
Russ,
It was 1/4" radius and all the info is in the reply #1308 in  the apendix file posted.
Need to go back and re-afirm a few things in that writeup. Also there was continuation
of the pathing down the piece.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 25, 2010, 10:54:37 AM
Here is what i am thinking can be done with the posting options mentioned above and rather simply.
BTW, i have additional wizards in my screen created by someone.....
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 25, 2010, 11:49:37 AM
Hi Rich
Thanks for the reply i have alway's installed it in the Mach folder but now when i open the folder the icon is not there i did a search but it just showed a folder and the icon was not inside don't know what happened the desk top short works and opens LT ?

Dennis 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 25, 2010, 02:08:02 PM
Found it just to many folders thanks happy chip making.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 25, 2010, 02:46:49 PM
Russ,
It was 1/4" radius and all the info is in the reply #1308 in  the apendix file posted.
Need to go back and re-afirm a few things in that writeup. Also there was continuation
of the pathing down the piece.
RICH

Ah yes, see it now, was just skimming through posts, saving the tut for later.
Thanks,
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 27, 2010, 12:16:08 PM
Okay I'm stumped.  I've created a turning project in Lazy Turn and it looks okay, at least to me. However when I open the G code file in Turn there's a whole bunch of material between the rough and finish passes that's left uncut?

I've attached a couple screenshots to show this.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 27, 2010, 01:05:55 PM
Post the dxf and the tap file.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 27, 2010, 02:21:01 PM
Here ya go...

Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 27, 2010, 03:48:13 PM
What your seeing in Mach3 Turn is true based on your posted tap file and there is big gap
differance between the rough and finish.

Now i can make the rough and finish passes that work, based on your dxf and you don't get what you show.

Can you post a pic of your rough and finish pass settings along with the tool info?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 27, 2010, 04:19:28 PM
Requested files...

Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 27, 2010, 05:56:12 PM
Kerry,
  You have LT in DIA. mode but I think the finish only comes out in RAD mode.
Switch to RAD mode and see what you get.
This is your file in Rad mode.
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 27, 2010, 07:07:59 PM
kerry,
In what program and what version of that program did you create the dxf?
By any chance was it exported out from a 3d file?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 27, 2010, 07:29:55 PM
Switching to RAD mode in LT seems to have made it work. I've attached a screenshot from Turn showing the results. Will Turn have to be switched to radius mode to run these files correctly?

The DXF file was created in the AutoCAD 2009 in 2-D mode not 3-D. I saved the file as AutoCAD 2007.

Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 27, 2010, 10:04:02 PM
Hi All,
An updated version of the LazyTurn Manual /  rev 6 inclusive of appendix ABC&D can found in the members docs.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 27, 2010, 10:12:47 PM
Kerry,
You will find that in the manual i just posted i have said you should draw, export, import, and have Mach3 Turn set  for the same mode.
I had trouble duplicating what you and Russ did since it wouldn't change no matter what mode i put mach turn in.
I take it you saved it as a version 2007 dxf.
A few other programs identified it as  3d dwg, 2000 would not import it.......
I am thinking that 2009 puts some crap into the dxf and causes problems .......don't know for sure....just a guess

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 27, 2010, 11:52:18 PM
Please pardon my ignorance Rich but where is the members docs?

Thanks,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 28, 2010, 08:10:55 AM
kERRY,
Just a click away........ :D
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.0.html
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on February 28, 2010, 12:23:29 PM
Rich,

The only way I can get LT to create a proper file with both rough and finish passes is to have it in radius mode. Of course this means that turn must also be in radius mode to cut the part properly. This is less than desirable since all of our previous files are created to be cut in diameter mode.
When the DXF file, LT and turn are all in diameter mode it simply will not work.

I've created DXF files in AutoCAD 2009 2D mode and exported them as version 2007 and version 12 with the exact same results in LT and Turn. Also as a test I created a DXF file in Corel draw version 13 using the DXF file exporter and discovered the results in LT and turn to be the same.

Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 28, 2010, 02:09:12 PM
ART,
I would  suggest that the code posting be based on a "straight" thru senerio.
Draw in a mode, LT need to be set  in that mode, the code is posted to agree, and the user needs to set
Mach3 Turn to that mode.

Maybe you are ahead of us already........but let me add, there may be a bug associated with that particular file because of the profile.

RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on February 28, 2010, 02:16:31 PM
Hi All,
I just posted a revised Appendix "E".  :)

Now to get the Appendix "F"....MACH3 TURN - QUICK REFERENCE draft done  :P

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 01, 2010, 12:54:59 PM
ART,
Have a look at the attached, as i think this will give you a glue on where to look for the
gcode / posting problem  in recent replies.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 01, 2010, 09:42:46 PM
ART,
Posted code will not reflect a Z offset when the yellow pentagon is used.
Example below, no offset, then a negative and a positive offset....the code is all the same.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Servolock on March 02, 2010, 11:26:11 PM
Art, Rich, and all,

I'm very happy with LT.  I haven't found any bug's in it.  The finish passes saved enough time that my total cutting time, is now 2-1/2 min., which is about the same amount of time it takes me to do my secondary operations on the turned piece after I part it off.  So both I and the lathe are busy continuously... no waiting any more and my output per hour is up!  I've cut almost 400 pieces so far. 

Now, I'm cutting wood, and the rough cuts are very coarse.  Pass depth is 1mm.  This means that there is a lot of material left when the finish pass begins, so I'm using 3 finishing operations and I tinkered with the params of each so that each one removes about the same amount of material, with the last one a little light. 

I hand optimized the G-code.  I added bi-directional cutting on most of the rough cutting and pruned some redundant code on both the rough and the finishes.  No complaints.  I like bi-directional cutting but I recognize that I may be the only one that wants it.

One question:  You earlier added separate X and Z feed rates at my suggestion, which was a huge help.  Should these two feed rates also used in the finish passes and vector-summed?   While cutting the finish passes, the noise  sounds like it may be cutting too fast when there is rapid change in the X direction. It's most noticeable when I'm cutting a narrow V-groove and  the bottom of the groove matches the radius of the cutter, so the slightest movement in X causes a lot of cutting.  Hasn't caused a problem but the noise makes me wonder.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 05, 2010, 08:29:40 AM
Hi Guys:

  Just got back from down south.. I see the issue with rad/dia.. small error on my part, here's a fix. The Fine path didnt take rad/dia into account.

 Ill digest the other comments as I get back to it..

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zarzul on March 05, 2010, 02:07:23 PM
Rich,

On those other turn wizards, can you send those to me or let me know where I can get them.
I have done a few myself and would like to have those also, until I get brave enough to try out Lazyturn.

Arnie
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 05, 2010, 04:32:53 PM
Arnie,
The additional wizards were created and some of the originals modified by a friend and i haven't had chance to check them out. I know there are one or two that are not complete or  don't work. Some of the mods that were done had to with posting additional info, like the input was diameter, tol info, date, etc and most i think work now work in diamater and radius mode. Additionaly he modified the code so that it's generic thus shorting a lot of them. He also changed some so that they will auto chamfer the edges only  and who knows what else.

I hope you understand why I am reluctant to share or post them. He or I will when we have at least tested them . He is also making a new screen set for them so till then, hang loose as they will be shared.

RICH


 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: H2 on March 05, 2010, 05:20:54 PM
Lurker here and downloaded the March5 exe of lazy turn.  When it's in the Mach directory I got a lost DLL error on start up.  The previous exe ran fine.. is it me ?

Thanks! all the best, Henry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 05, 2010, 05:26:59 PM
Henry,
No problems here and tried it on two different computers.  ???

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: H2 on March 05, 2010, 05:36:02 PM
Thanks Rich - I will go back and check it out again AAAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhhhh!
All the best, Henry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 05, 2010, 08:56:35 PM
Henry:

  Make sure you loaded the LCAm update if you havent used LTurn before...

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: H2 on March 05, 2010, 08:59:30 PM
Ouch - sorry to be stupid but where can I find the update?
All the bset, Henry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 05, 2010, 09:13:48 PM
main downloads page.. LCAm update...

Then.. you can download the new exe's from this forum..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 05, 2010, 09:18:07 PM
Art,
SUGGESTIONS ON CODE POSTING
1. Should there be an automatic G40 inserted into the posted code?
LT code is precompensated, but should a user have a G41 in his initailization file or what ever then i can see
a mixup happening should the tool number match one which has offset etc predfined in the tool table.

2. Add the tool  angle in the tool info somwhere?
(Change to Tool: BUTTON .01                  -R0.0100-IC0.0100   TA: 45 )
This would serve as an easy reminded when setting up your tools from what you told LT in tool creation.

3. State that diameter or radius mode & inches / mm  was used to generate the code.

4.Change the default feed,  plunge rate, and spindle rpm  to 1 in the tool creation ?( when program is first installed ) Just a safety feature
if the user were to neglect to modify these for his particular tool that was created.

5. Add line numbers to the code ?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 05, 2010, 09:36:28 PM
Art just another posting option to consider,

Since manny user's may be making a manual tool change it would be nice if you could click a box such that
an M0 and a G28 would be put in at the end of a toolpath code if a different tool will be used in the next toolpath.
I am guessing that if a user defines home some distance from the piece, he can then change his tool, redefine part for that  tool, home and then just continue on with the next pass.
Maybe i am getting too lazy......

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 06, 2010, 10:23:56 AM
Rich:

  I agree on all 5 points.. On my list to add for next release.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 07, 2010, 10:57:17 AM
Hi Guys:

  Version R1.1

--G40G90 at start of post.
- Tool Angle inluded in output
- Rad/Dia included in post
- Default tool feed/speeds set o 1
- Line numbers on code output
- optional M0G28 at tool change
- Z Offset enabled for finihs pass. ( this may not be optimal, ZOffset is a clipping value, may lead to tool outer flank cutting )

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Chip on March 10, 2010, 01:47:10 AM
Hi, Art

I've been working with a 0.050 cut-off tool and getting mixed results, Have talked with Rich about it and sorta think it's a glitch or a setting some where.

Chip
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 10, 2010, 08:08:38 PM
ART,
 
Any comments or suggestions on the following? Maybe I'm missing something?

The Gcode  posted by LT will always be pre-compensated.

- The first move in the Z direction will  = tool radius + the clearance set in LT for the pass.
   ( note that a user will probably vary the clearance settings)
- The first move in the X direction goes to a  point and the tool is assumed to be on the tool tip radius center lines ( lets call it point "B").
   
This makes use of Mach's  tool table rather difficult. The tool table offsets are  probably set up using a master tool
 which relates all the others based on where the tip is cutting. I am going to assume something, and that is, the user
has set home  away from the piece to be machined.  So the move from home will go to point "B".
So one can't simply modify the tool table by adjusting the offsets ( if not adjusted all the actual cutting will be off by the radius), before hand, because the
clearance needs to accounted for in the tool table adjustment of offsets.

I quess you generate the code , and then, adjust or create a tool table.
OR
Touch off each tool to be used ( if they are different ) prior to the every pass it will be used for.


RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 11, 2010, 10:03:35 AM
Hi Rich:

   Im not actually sure how to deal with that one. The code is developed algorithimically to be the center of the tool
simply because it makes sense in the math to do so, almost impossible in fact to do otherwise. So its not so much
precompensated by design as by effect.
   I do see that it makes a tooltable harder to manage.. The only thought I had given to that was that one would zero the
tool to the stock when setting up..

 What do you suggest as a solution? Not being a real lathe user in any practical sense, your suggestion may be better than
one I come up with, but putting out uncompensated code may be difficult..

Art

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 11, 2010, 12:08:35 PM
Hi Art & Rich
Are you saying if a tool change is in the program the operator would have to home that tool to the material can't see that working as it would change the profile i am lurking and watching i have not put tool to metal yet only a Sim and i don't think LT is there yet very close though thanks art for what you have so far.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 11, 2010, 03:44:13 PM
ART,
Pre compensated code.....done deal, no problem.

What do I suggest as a solution?
Don't have a "universal / single solution" yet. Don't think there is one......I just need to take a good look at the generated code and try to anticipate
what problems a user will have in both setup of his lathe and using his tools. That's what Appendix "F" Mach3 Turn is all about.
There are a wide range of situations. IE; Most users will be doing a one of a kind profile, maybe want to repeat the profile,
standard tooling / non-standard tooling,  probably a quick change tool holder ( which has it's owne inherent limitations),
no / modified/or original created  tool table, a indexable rotary changer ( unlikely for the average user ), can or can't touch off to the profile,
 how closely somebody wants to turn to the drawn profile,...etc.

It comes down to tool setup, level automatation, and  degree of accuracy the user wants to accomplish with the lathe system he has to machine
the profile based on the precompensated code.

So i am taking an approach in the write up, and will assume some things to make  tool set up managable.
The writeup will cover basics of setting up the lathe, a how to on tool table setup, creating the offset for home,  and relate all that stuff to
whatever needs to be done to use LT's generated code to turn a piece. Ya just need to go through it all and see where the practical problems
arise and see if there is something "simple" that can be added which makes tool setup less problematic and usefull.

A good example was the option of having the G28 and M0 added to the code. Also the M40 & M90 always posting.

Need to play around some more  and will post if i get any ideas on it. There are a whole lot of more advanced users out there than myself.

RICH  
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 11, 2010, 04:37:24 PM
Dennis,
My assumption is that the user would always start from a homed position. Homed in the sense that the carriage position is away
from the part far enough that he can change to any tool. If you have home switches you are at 0,0 automaticaly, if you don't have them
then you set home away from the part. Still need to touch off  to define the part location whether you do a skim cut or touch off with the master tool.  I haven't used additional offsets, but, maybe some of that will come into play now.

If you use the same tool for say rough and finish passes then all is rather simple. If you don't, it gets more complicated. Put the tool on a goofy rotated angle as the second tool required for a pass, and you have lost position because you can't loosen a tool post and maintain position to say a master tool. So you will need to touch off ...again....to some reference. So there is an accuracy problem associated the basic tool setup and then there is also how accurate your lathe system is. Consider using a tool with with a radius different than what you created the pass with in Lt ( human error and it will happen).If the tool post is bolted to a cross slide which rotates, you still won't return the cross slide exactly back to where it was.
Somewhat all of the above is nothing new.
 
You have a choice before posting if you want to post the G28 & M0. You can work any way you want.

From a drawing / design point of view you would not create a profile requiring a non standard tool insert these days  unless really necessary as it drives up cost.

Just some thoughts,
RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 12, 2010, 12:05:57 PM
Hi Rich
My lathe dose have a turret tool post and yes all the tool's are close but i am sure not exact in length reason for my comment it gets confusing when you are homing different tools and then doing multiple parts with the same code.
  i have used LT and get the same type of results as Chip had above meaning the code is not the same each time out but using the same DXF for a file is LT using a different approach to the each time it generates the G-code?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 12, 2010, 03:23:24 PM
Dennis,
I haven't  looked at the posted code that much, but are you saying
that for the same Lt defined tools and settings for the rough and finish passes that are used,
the posted code varies?

I know that varying the rough and finish settings for the same tools will provide different results ( would be expected)
and in some of those cases it does look like a different approach ( in fact,   you would not want to do / post code from it ).
You need to try something different.

As to tool set up ....yep....it can get confusing, and for a one only may take more time than machining it.  ???
Waite till you read my next posting.......... ::)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 12, 2010, 03:25:21 PM
ART,
Talked to Graham a little about a work around.

A G52 could be used to shift the part zero within the current work ofset by some amount.
The G52 requires an active work offset. If home is set / it's at x & z =0 ( you have the offset in place as the
 user defines the part location from home via an offset).

So you use a G52 before the two G0  moves and then cancel the G52 after the moves. Thus if the tool table is
based on the cutting tip, the tool would actualy end up being aligned as if it was based on centers post the machine
move from home..

So a few rules on use  of the G52:  ???
- The tool offsets in the tool table are based on the tool tip cutting point.
- There is a work offset from home ( home used here as the tool  tip cutting point to part x & Z =0)

LazyTurn Rules:  ???
1. If the same tool radius is used for all passes then only need to implement the G52 one time
 and home posting is only required once. 
2.A G52 is always required on the first pass, and a G52 is always required if the tool radius changes
from the previuos one.

G52 EXAMPLE FOR X TOOL ALIGNMENT "only":
TOOL RADIUS =.010"

G52 X-.010 ( provides for adding the radius to the actuall length traveled in the G0x....move) 
G0 Z .......
G0 X........
G52 X0.0  ( cancels the G52 and returns to work offset)
G.......no difference from here as the code is still precompensted including the clearance.

I think i got it right......... :P
I guess there would need to be another posting option / options.
Will ceratinly be confusing to a novice user.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 12, 2010, 06:11:53 PM
Always seemed to me the best way to do it woudl be simply to select T0000, ( which has no X,Z offsets), zero the new tool, then Select the new tool, at which time the
X,Z offsets in the table take effect. Of course this means no length offset being used since the X is being zeroed for each tool....the table woudl simply have X and Z offsets equal to that tools radius..

Ill give it some thought..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 12, 2010, 10:25:54 PM
ART,
Just posting thoughts on the matter and don't expect ya to do anything unless it really makes to do so.
The tool table be can modified to keep original tools, copy the same tools with a different number and modified offset, etc.
no one way works for all the varity that can exist or how the machining will be done. Simpler profiles with min number of tools used
can provide a level of automation.........

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 14, 2010, 11:45:02 AM
ART,
How is the implementation of arc coding doing? Any progress?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 14, 2010, 01:06:54 PM
Hi Rich:

 Not yet, soon hopefully..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 14, 2010, 01:25:38 PM
ART,
I bet you will be happy when you arrive at that point!
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 19, 2010, 08:26:36 PM
Hi All,
Here is a rough draft of Appendix "F". Feel free to tear it apart........ ;D
RICH

MODIFIED: NOW LOCATED IN MEMBERS DOCS
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 24, 2010, 10:29:27 AM
ART,
How is the finish pass progressing?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 24, 2010, 10:56:07 AM
Rich:
 
   Its suprising to me how few arcs there are in the finish pass. I have found a few, and am still working on the conversion algorithm. Finding arcs from
linear segments is somewhat a difficult operation as it has tolerance issues. The techiques used conventionally are pretty bad when applied to the
linear segemnts we use. Tolerances make things a bit inaccurate and Im finding issues with cutoffs and such. Its easy to find from 3 points in the line what arc woudl fit them, but rarely is the forth point going to conform without a certain tolerance of error and that error compounds over distance and time.

  Im still unsure exactly how the arcing willwork out from the data. It may be a cas eof having to use small enough finish tolerance to get a proper
finish on those radii.

   Its the only issue im working on in Turn at the moment, as there doesnt seem to be too many reported issues other than re-arcing the output
data..

Just an update
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 24, 2010, 03:10:19 PM
ART,
Just a few thoughts on the finish pass which would include the arc code:

Maybe tolerance shouldn't be an issue at all in some cases of the profile. After the profile is whittled down to say with-in some high point of material left, the program then just provides the profile pass with the arc coding and maybe a repeat of it / spring pass. Say there is a bump left from the finish passes, it will be removed with the arc coded pass. Depending on the material, say it was stainless, the user may deliberately want to leave some amount so it cuts thru the work hardened material.

Practicaly speaking ( only for myself ) i don't remember ever having to place a "high level tolerance" on some wierd profiled
piece. If the designer gave me a drawing on it i would probably ask him what he was smoking lately! I am thinking here something like a decorative spindle and you would have a very difficult time measuring it. Not sure any program is smart enough to account for bad / impractical design in the first place.  

Now a ball ended shaft is a different story in that the user is after something specific and it's not based on some goofy
grouping of arcs. But you do want accurate arc coding for that kind of stuff.

I guess what i am saying is that at some point after the rough / rough finish/ the program just gives the arc coded pass
and a smoothed out curve for something decorative which is relatively true. Heck that's what the person did in CAD anyway and the cad influenced it.

Maybe the above can make  your job easier. BTW, a lot of drawn profiles will require tool changes just to accomplish it unless it's a "point tool" which will work for the complete profile pass.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 24, 2010, 07:57:52 PM
Hi Rich:
 The problem is that there is no Arc to build from, by the time the finish is computed, with offsets and collision avoidance, all thats left is points, or small
linear segments equalk to "tolerance" distance in length. The problem occurs when trying to get arcs from such information. There is no arc in the data
at all in that case. Useing the original arc's from any loaded profile is impossibel as it hasnt been processed for anticollision or dosnt exist.

  The cad program may have used arc's in the drawing, but there long gone by the time a finish path is created. And though intuitively youd think
you could generate arc data from thsoe linear points... it aint liek it seems.. :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 24, 2010, 08:23:20 PM
ART,
Why kill yourself trying to get that data from what's leftover?
I would have thought that you would take the dxf info and manipulate it some .
What does LazyCam do to get just the profile for example? 
I guess what i am saying is that at some point in the program you call it quits for pathing and then heres the profile cut.
Thinking here, ie; that if it took four tools to create the finish passes,  it will take four tools to do just a profile. and they will need to end their pathing at the same points to avoid collisions. So the profile ends up being broken up into segments or you just give the code for the profile in one shot and let it up to the user to place tools appropriately to cut it.

May be a good work around until you can figure out the complexities you mention.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 24, 2010, 09:20:55 PM
Rich:

>>I would have thought that you would take the dxf info and manipulate it some .
>>What does LazyCam do to get just the profile for example? 

  The profile is easy..its just the raw dxf input.. but that has little correspondance to the finish path profiles.
Its hard to explain, but since the arcs get broken up in the calculations, they simply dont exist anymore
other than the raw dxf inptu profile, but thats useless to put out, any tool used with that would simply gough the
stock on one side of the tool or another.
   While I could put it out as a profile in GCode , I dont really see much use for it, be pretty rare Id think when it could even be modified,
because no matter how many tools you use, getting the complete profile cut with no exclusion due to tools is very rare I woudl think..depending on the profile.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 24, 2010, 11:07:07 PM
ART,
The only inclusion would be tool tip radius. Why couldn't the user pick four points, one where they would start the axis move,
the next is the start point along the dxf profile, the third is where the tool stops along the dxf profile, and then a fourth which is away from the profile along with a direction. The user would use the test tool location to check that the tool is not gouging the work along the selected part. I don't know if you can computer automate what a user can intuitively see so quickly. BTW, if one couldn't do the above then he would split the dxf.

No it's not automated,and tied in with all the other pathing, but at some point it may no longer be feasable to try automating it. Maybe you can even say it is not lazy anymore at that final point.

A profile code is of value since that just gives the user the code and option of manual tool application. For a more advanced user they can extract portions of the code as they wish and add simple moves to and from. On small stuff for instance,I can make a tool which will not gouge the workpiece, a good example is the three balled handle as only a special ground tool ( radiused on both sides and with a point ) will accomplish it using the code of the actual profile.

The above is all divorced from the previous pathing.

Just some thoughts,
RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Astroguy on March 31, 2010, 04:53:34 PM
Hi All,
Here is a rough draft of Appendix "F". Feel free to tear it apart........ ;D
RICH
Hi All,
Here is a rough draft of Appendix "F". Feel free to tear it apart........ ;D
RICH

It looks good but I could not print it because you have it locked. ?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on March 31, 2010, 08:43:08 PM
Thanks for the feedback Astroguy,
Printing wasn't allowed since it is a rough draft and didn't want folks wasteing paper and ink on something that will be changed numerous times. What is important is the content of the verbage. Since it covers what i think are the hardest lathe concepts to absorb.
I have modified it already and hopefully it is better on how it leads the thought process from start to a finish.
Anything you feel was confusing? I will admit that it it is not meant to be a book....... ;)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Astroguy on March 31, 2010, 09:29:37 PM
Thanks for the feedback Astroguy,
Printing wasn't allowed since it is a rough draft and didn't want folks wasteing paper and ink on something that will be changed numerous times. What is important is the content of the verbage. Since it covers what i think are the hardest lathe concepts to absorb.
I have modified it already and hopefully it is better on how it leads the thought process from start to a finish.
Anything you feel was confusing? I will admit that it it is not meant to be a book....... ;)
RICH

As a beginner to lazyturn it is something I was hoping for. I use lazycam with my mill but I am in the process of converting my 10X22 lathe to cnc and I was having trouble understanding the system for lathes. I think this will be a great help for beginners like me. I can't wait to see the finished paper. Thanks so much for writing it.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 01, 2010, 07:28:46 AM
Asrtroguy,
Attached shows some of the mods done to Appendix "F". No you can't print it.  Have a read and see if it helps understanding
or makes for confusion.

BTW,
There will be a fun DXF created for those wishing to try out LazyTurn. Actualy it is a complete hobby project composed of 32 turnings.
The pieces are machinable from LazyTurn generated code,now,but prefer to waite for ART's refinements to the finish pass.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 01, 2010, 09:28:04 AM
Hi Rich:

   Im not having much luck in enhancements, and my time has pretty much run out for this winters run.
The swapping of point data to arcs is turning out to be very hard to do on many instances of dxf's.
Ill still work on it in spare time when I can till next season, but Im unsure if youll see any more releases this year.


Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 01, 2010, 09:36:43 AM
Bah Hum Bug.....ART
I was hoping that there would some closure before next season.  :'(
It still would be nice to have just the option of the profile code and would keep folks from having to resort back to LazyCam to get it.  ;)
I understand.....thanks for all the efforts.....
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 01, 2010, 09:50:53 AM
Rich:

 Ill still see what I can get done before I get swamped with summer work..

As to the profile, Im still a bit flumoxed over its value. Since it pretty much guarentees
gouging as just the true profile, Im curious as to how it could be used. But Ill see if I can at least
make a button that puts out just the profile itself before any tool collision modifications if you feel
it woudl be usefull.. mind you that woudl simply be an offset profile of the actual loaded dxf...only in Gcode..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 01, 2010, 10:15:10 AM
Thanks Art that would be appreciated.
Quote
if you feel it woudl be usefull..
  it can be very usefull in the right turning application
Quote
mind you that woudl simply be an offset profile of the actual loaded dxf...only in Gcode..
  UNDERSTOOD

The value of the profile code would provide a single cut across the complete profile, just forget about the gouging on its use or the tool that will be used, as that code could be used with a point tool which will not gouge among other things.

I have used that code many times, especialy on smalll stuff and also taken advantage of easily manipulating the code.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Astroguy on April 05, 2010, 02:31:53 PM
Asrtroguy,
Attached shows some of the mods done to Appendix "F". No you can't print it.  Have a read and see if it helps understanding
or makes for confusion.

BTW,
There will be a fun DXF created for those wishing to try out LazyTurn. Actualy it is a complete hobby project composed of 32 turnings.
The pieces are machinable from LazyTurn generated code,now,but prefer to waite for ART's refinements to the finish pass.

RICH



As a beginner I was a little confused about setting up the coordinate systems but I think I have it now. I guess I will find out when I finish the refit and try to use it. Your guide will be a big help. When it is done I am going to print it and laminate it to set next to the lathe until I learn it.

Thanks!!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 07, 2010, 12:22:50 AM
Greetings,

I just tried using LT on my new computer running Windows 7 and for some reason I can't post code. Everything seems to work normally in LT except when the Notepad screen opens to display the TAP file it's empty.

I attached a screenshot you can see what I'm getting

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 07, 2010, 10:32:46 AM
Kerry:

  Make sure the folder your saving it to has appropriate priviledges. OR, rigth click and run in administrator mode.
I tend to save to desktop, so I dont get that problem, but it shoudlnt appear if the folder your trying to save to
has the write priveleges enabled.. ( Win7 is bad that way..)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 07, 2010, 11:50:43 PM
Art,

I tried your suggestions however the results were the same. As it happened today our computer tech was in the office and he discovered a solution. Here's his notes on how it was fixed:

- This isn't a permissions issue as it will create the file but the file is empty
- I changed LazyTurn to run in compatibility mode for XP SP2, tried again, it worked this time (right click on the lazyturn shortcut, compatibility tab, put a check in the box and choose Windows XP SP2 from the dropdown)

Thanks so much for all your hard work developing LT and always being availabe to offer help, I sure appreciate it!

Kerry Harrison
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: 1stcuts on April 08, 2010, 07:14:54 AM
Kerry,  I was having the same problem with 7, but by accident while looking for something else in
the Mach folder, lo and behold all the tap files that were blank in note pad were sittin in there
all by them selves. just dragged them to desk top and all was well.

Regards,
Bill
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 08, 2010, 09:10:15 AM
HI:

 Yes, I do seem to recall the problem is actually that notepad isntallowed access to read the file.. Hard to say with so many crazy securities built in these days... :)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 08, 2010, 10:02:33 AM
Bill,

I looked in my Mach 3 folder and sure enough there's the files, complete with G-code just as you said. Now that's a strange one??

Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 17, 2010, 05:29:05 PM
Hi All,

The complete Lazyturn Manual inclusive of all Appendixes ABCDEFG ( listed below ) can be found in Members Docs.
APPEND     TOPIC                                                       REV
A   LAZYTURN QUICK AND DIRTY                   5
B   CAD DRAWINGS AND COMMON MISTAKES   4
C   DXF FILE EXPORTS                                   4
D   POSTED DXF FILES                                   2
E   PRACTICAL  MACHINING  CONSIDERATIONS   5
F   MACH 3 TURN - QUICK REFERENCE   0
G   PROFILE CODE FROM LAZYCAM                   0

Here is the link.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.msg62041.html#msg62041

I doubt i will be making any changes to it until until development activity resumes.
So until then ....happy reading.  :)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on April 18, 2010, 08:36:51 AM
All I can say is "WOW", Rich. What an unbelievable amount of time and work you put into this and I for one appreciate it very much.

Thank you very much-
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 18, 2010, 09:01:29 AM
Thanks Dave,
It was time consumming and Appendix "F" still needs tweaking, but as is, it should shorten the path for manny allowing them to
spend more time on having fun with their lathe and not trying to figure how to tie it alll together.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 19, 2010, 12:31:54 AM
Greetings,

I have a file that LT can't seem to do a proper finish pass on. Roughing's OK but the finish pass always cuts well beyond the finished dimension in the drawing and the code makes the deepest cut first??

See attachments.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 19, 2010, 09:38:02 AM
Kerry,
I think ART needs to address the issue, but, see the attached.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 19, 2010, 10:45:22 AM
Hi:

  3d IS a problem, the file must be in 2d.. but other than that the error is one of a secondary dll I use for spinning and creating the main offsets that sometimes has trouble determining inside from outside. Im looking into it, but it seems the profile ending on or behind zero can cause this as well..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 19, 2010, 05:48:49 PM
I'm a bit confused about this 2-D versus 3-D stuff.

I understand there is no a difference in the files (although I have no idea what the differences would be) but what is confusing me is I always run AutoCAD in 2-D mode so how is it that I'm creating 3-D files?

Obviously you folks know how to check to see what type of file it is so could you share that information with me so I can check my files to make sure they're in 2-D?

Thanks,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ger21 on April 19, 2010, 09:57:22 PM
I've never used LT, or even a lathe, but the .dxf in your previous post is 2D, not 3D.
There is no 2D mode in AutoCAD, you can do 3D at any time in AutoCAD. In other words, you can't turn 3D off. Not sure what these guys are referring to, but when they say 3D, they probably mean a 3D solid or mesh. You can't accidentally create one of those if your just drawing lines. As long as your always drawing in the top view, you shouldn't have any problems.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 19, 2010, 10:29:58 PM
The file you posted would not even open in LazyTurn on my end and i got an error.
When the dxf is opened in Microstation it says it is 3d file, and it needs to be converted/exported to a 2d before Microstation wll read it as a 2D file. I have a number of different versions of both Microstation and AutoCAD. So i had a problem with it, that's why i deleted your profile and drew a different one / very close to it.
When someone posts a file i will just spend only so much time fooling with it if it dosn't import into LazyTurn. There realy aren't that many files in two years that i have had a problem with( here ) and yours happened to be one of them.
There is a difference in the files and i will not repeat what is written in APPENDIX "C" of the manual. Unfortunately i no longer have the access to an expert in the dxf field any more ( he fooled with dxf problems since 1985 and would look at something for me and tell me exactly what was up ( i don't have that kind knowledge).
So, what can i say...........
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 19, 2010, 11:03:55 PM
Gerry,
Just tried something, in Microstation it shows all the elements as 3d on import and i changed a setting ( good grief haven't done this one in years) such that the elements were "Independant of View" and it exported and worked fine in LazyTurn.
Is there any setting in AutoCad like that?  ???
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 19, 2010, 11:06:53 PM
Rich:

 The error I got indicated a line of length .00000000000000127 in length.Thisline was hosing the load so I assumed it was a 3d issue.
When I got rid of that error, it loaded but cut the finish on the wrong side.. Weird file in some way..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 19, 2010, 11:48:33 PM
ART,
Quote
and it exported and worked fine in LazyTurn
Just a little clarifcation, it loaded into LT, but still had the rough and finish on the wrong side as you found. If you fool with the rough settings and get it such that there is a clearance produced then the finish will seem to work, but, those rough settings may not be practical.
It seems that this problem has come about in the last revision or two since i don't remember it happening going back in time.
I didn't go into depth to see if there was a "dot" in the drawing......Like you said, every once in whiile you get a weird drawing.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 19, 2010, 11:58:39 PM
ART,
Try a negative value as shown in the pic. Seemed to do the trick....  ??? Never tried a negative value  ::)
Didn't look at the code to see what was generated.
Just thinking outside the box.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on April 20, 2010, 12:38:53 AM
Hay all

If you zoom very deep in at the very Right tip of the drawing (at the origin) you see that the line is going in the negative direction, could that have got someting to do with it?????

Greetings:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on April 20, 2010, 09:10:35 AM
Hi Rich:

  LOL, pretty good.

  Its not seomthing that popped up recently, Ive struggled with the inside/outside thing for a while, I just
have it set to check as much as I could to make the decision on inside/outside and it works most of the time,
drawings like this one fool it is all..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ger21 on April 20, 2010, 08:05:55 PM
Gerry,
Just tried something, in Microstation it shows all the elements as 3d on import and i changed a setting ( good grief haven't done this one in years) such that the elements were "Independant of View" and it exported and worked fine in LazyTurn.
Is there any setting in AutoCad like that?  ???
RICH

I'm curious as to what Microstation determines is "3D"? In AutoCAD, the .dxf has 5 polylines, all in the XY plane at Z=0. Definately not 3D. I also don't see the line segment Art saw. All 5 polylines had 2 vertices each. Very simple. Unless there's something in the file that AutoCAD is ignoring, but I don't think so, as it should give an error message if that were the case.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 21, 2010, 12:31:01 AM
Rich,

I tried the negative value but the results are the same. I redrew the file completly in AutoCAD, same results in LT. How about sending me the file you converted in Microstation and I will try it?

Thanks much,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 21, 2010, 10:06:28 AM
Some stuff to play with.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 22, 2010, 12:11:09 AM
Well Rich your file 48_2convert2d.dxf works like a charm, but 48_3convert2d.dxf has the finish pass error.

I guess the 2D file is the ticket. Trouble is I have no idea how to do that 3D/2D conversion in AutoCAD so I'm still stuck. Unless you are willing to convert my files.  ;)

If there are any ideas on doing this in AutoCAD please let me know.

Thanks,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Bloy on April 22, 2010, 08:27:20 AM
Hi All,

The complete Lazyturn Manual inclusive of all Appendixes ABCDEFG ( listed below ) can be found in Members Docs.
APPEND     TOPIC                                                       REV
A   LAZYTURN QUICK AND DIRTY                   5
B   CAD DRAWINGS AND COMMON MISTAKES   4
C   DXF FILE EXPORTS                                   4
D   POSTED DXF FILES                                   2
E   PRACTICAL  MACHINING  CONSIDERATIONS   5
F   MACH 3 TURN - QUICK REFERENCE   0
G   PROFILE CODE FROM LAZYCAM                   0

Here is the link.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.msg62041.html#msg62041

I doubt i will be making any changes to it until until development activity resumes.
So until then ....happy reading.  :)

RICH

Hi Rich!
I just wanted to say  ..THANK YOU!!
I've been dormant for quite some time now, but I couldn't let any more time pass without recognizing your immense documentation....and the work behind it!

Thanks Again.
John Bloy
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 22, 2010, 08:41:51 AM
Kerry,
What version of AutoCad are you using?
Do you have a problem with all or lot your files or was it just that particular one?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on April 22, 2010, 09:08:43 AM
Rich,

I have 2008. This is the only file I have had this problem with.

Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 22, 2010, 09:30:57 AM
John,
Thanks. There is a lot of info in the manual and if it allows you to start having fun with your lathe using LazyTurn then I am happy.
What we realy need is constructive feedback on it and there is a thread where you can post your comments.
I would simply suggest that the user make some notes on the verbage as they use it and then post what is confusing, not wirtten
well, or maybe is in conflict with other documentation, or can be portrayed better for understanding. Then it can be tweaked as time goes on.

You can be thankfull to ART for providing a program which is like no other for the hobbiest. Just need to get the challenges of the finish pass
resolved.

RICH
 



Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Bloy on April 22, 2010, 10:53:20 AM
.......You can be thankfull to ART for providing a program which is like no other for the hobbiest. Just need to get the challenges of the finish pass
resolved.

RICH
 

I believe Art already knows how thankful I am.   Back when he was developing Mach2 and I participated with all the "testers" I was blown away moreso by his philosophy and approach to life in general.   Yes! I am thankful to Art.
  If I can ever get all the items on the "home improvement" front reduced to low priority, and still see a happy face on my wife, I will again get involved and provide some form of positive contributions.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 22, 2010, 11:00:13 AM
Kerry,
I think it is in that first POLYLINE that starts from 0,0.
SEE ATTACHED.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 27, 2010, 11:55:31 AM
Art
I have been watching the forum and seen a mention of inside and outside turning can LT do inside and outside turning?

Thanks
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on April 27, 2010, 04:00:39 PM
Dennis,
LT can only do outside profile turning. I believe you miss-interpreted something said about how LT determines that it is an outside profile.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on April 27, 2010, 06:51:57 PM
Rich
Thats me miss-interpreting again thought as much thanks for the info.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: fcremn on May 16, 2010, 03:42:32 AM
Hi,
new here so I hope this is the correct place to ask my question. I am using an old version of Autosketch to produce drawings and although I can import a simple profile into Lazyturn the dimesions are incorrect ... a one inch bar is around nine inches. Can I use Autosketch? I note it is not mentioned in the appendices, or do I need another CAD program

Phil
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 16, 2010, 08:14:20 AM
Phil,
I have never used Autosketch. It is vector based and exports to a dxf so assume it should work.
I don't know why dimensions are incorrect. LT provides for setting diameter, radius, or metric on import.
Make sure that your drawing units are set correctly in Autosketch. I am quessing that it's either
the way you are drawing it or some export setting in Autosketch but realy don't have a specific answer for you.
Post the DWG  and DXF file. I believe there are other folks in here that use it and may chime in.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on May 16, 2010, 08:20:01 AM
Hi Phil,

I don't use that program either but a few things to also check:

-Make sure you're exporting 1:1 scale
-Make sure you have the drawing at 0,0 origin

I tried using Solidworks for drawing turn work but never got the dxf just right, so my cylindrical piece ended up looking like an oval piece because I didn't have the origin at 0,0.

Hope that helps-
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: fcremn on May 17, 2010, 04:02:49 PM
Thanks Rich and Dave for the rapid responses which pointed me in the right direction. I had the scaling wrong! Obvious really, but Iwas going round in circles anyway now I am on the first rung of the ladder.

Thanks again ........ Phil
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on May 17, 2010, 04:43:42 PM
 :)
Title: I Like it !
Post by: Curmudgeon on June 03, 2010, 07:48:26 PM
I just found Lazyturn !
I guess it's not exactly hidden, but still !
I'm pretty sure it's going to work for me and I have already built gcode from a dfx I'm hoping will work. Copying it over to the shop PC now so I can run it on a real machine. Looks good in simulator and in Mach2 lathe, but I'm not moving any machine parts yet.

Is this an active effort ?
I ask because while I've been learning to use it, I've found a few bugs. Nothing that keeps it from outputting good code, just stuff that's not refreshing when it should, or not clear as to how it works.
I'm NOT complaining, and I'm OK with it as is, but if the authors are looking for feedback, I can contribute.

 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on June 03, 2010, 09:44:07 PM
Happy you found LT. There are some things to be worked out and hopefully when activity starts again ( in the fall i will presume )
maybe the finish pass will be completed.

The effort gets quite intense once it starts up. Currently there is none that i am aware of.

Feedback......yep would appreciate all that you can contribute. I would suggest that you follow along with the manual which is posted in Members Doc's since it is current with all the comments which have been made to date.

For any bugs you find explain what they are and also attach the DXF you are using and associated info so folks can have a look.

Constructive critique of the manual would be appreciated since a new pair of eye's finds stuff not seen by others especially the writers.


RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on June 04, 2010, 08:18:20 AM
Hi:


   Happy you found the program, theres been thousands of hits on the thread, htough I think only a few hundred have downloaded the program itself. There will be more work done in the fall as Deep winter is usually my development time on the hobby/research side.
   Rich and the others here have offered great support to those that use the program and though its not yet done, it does offer more than most lathe programs in terms of its output. As a free program, ( which will remain free ) its worked on when I find I have some time to donate to its cause. Usually thats in november to February timeframe.

  Ill be releaseing a new cad type program this year commercially ( hopefully in a couple months time ) that should be finished its time critical stuff by November when I can then switch back to LTurn to finalize its finish passes. It only needs one more push I think to take it to the point it was meant to go to, which isnt far from current capability.

Have fun, report any annoyances and when development starts again I usually run them away first..

Thanks
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on June 04, 2010, 08:29:04 AM
Quote
new cad type program this year commercially


ART,
Can you eleaborate some on it? Would it be meant to be used specificaly for LC and LT?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn (OT)
Post by: ART on June 04, 2010, 11:21:14 AM
Hi Rich: 

>>Can you eleaborate some on it?

  It has nothing to do with Lathes or Mills directly..  While building a clock recently I was amazed how hard it was to design a gear and check meshing requirements and such. I purchased a program to allow me to do so, but it was a bit buggy. They wanted an upgrade fee to get the bug fixes.. ( which always pisses me off.. :-) ). Later I was looking at making some elliptical gear mechanisms.. I was really surprised to see the price and problems involved with elliptical gears and such..
  I decided to write my own gearing program, from individual gears to full mechanisms built from many gears. Square gears, triangular gears, involute, cycloidal, pin gears, escapements..  Its been dominating my time lately, but is fun to play with and should allow woodworkers, hobbiests etc to make good gears easily and inexpensively. Simulate their designs and make video's of proposed mechanisms running. The "Gearotic Motion" project has been underway for a few months just to see if I could do something pleasing and easy to use. Its looking very cool right now and I suspect it may be usefull for anyone wanting to do geared mechanisms at the hobby level without very expensive software..  I'll have it put out GCode, Print-to-scale and 3d models for 3d printers as well.
 
   I suspect youll see some sort of announcement of "Gearotic Motion" as a released standalone cad program sometime this year. It's unlikely to get a large following due to there really being no market I suspect, but I see a need for such a program and decided to fill it. ( or attempt to anyway. :-) ). At its worst it looks like it will be a great rube-goldberg machine creator.. :) . Usually you get gears only from expensive cad... this one will make easy gears without all the complexity required by big business.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on June 04, 2010, 04:28:03 PM
ART,
True retirement is doing whatever you enjoy doing for whatever reason you want to do it.
Glad your succeeding....

I still have a ways to go.    ;)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Dan13 on June 05, 2010, 07:52:48 AM
You keep amazing my, Art :)  And how do you have the time for all this anyway... ;)

Daniel
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 22, 2010, 11:48:17 AM
Art
How much material will be left on a design after it is turned in LT if i put in 1 i still get more then 2.5 MM over sized on the part.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 22, 2010, 11:56:18 AM
Dennis:

  In theory if "1" is the offset , then your finish pass should only leave 1.0 , so 2mm should be the oversize. What does the GCode indicate the position is when cutting the final pass of the finished measurement point?

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 23, 2010, 01:26:22 PM
Art
Thanks for the reply i will have to look at the code again to answer that question, i have changed the design making it smaller in Diameter but found it consistent with the material that is left after turning I will look at the code and let you know on it i know i can work around this by offsetting the lathe home position on the X Axis's but if i forget to set it back it's a pain to rest the zero point.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 23, 2010, 04:59:19 PM
Hi Dennis,
If the code is correct and the lathe system is good then the part should be to dimension.
Could be in the initial tool touch off to the part or in the lathe repeatbility.
When you widdle the part down there could be a lot of X axis movements and  could end up being over or under
due to steps per unit, repeatability, backlash, etc.

Don't know what more to say....
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 24, 2010, 01:14:37 PM
Hi Rich
Machine is tight and when i do a midi move the move is right on the money also if i use a different program the dimensions are fine so now what?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 24, 2010, 01:23:32 PM
Rich
one thing i keep forgetting is the version of Mach i am using i have upgraded to the latest version and found the code when viewed on screen to be all whacked out with arc's being displayed as circles and figure 8's when i went back to the older version R3.042.029 and all is right in the turning world I just checked out the code i have been talking about actual diameter is 25 MM and what i get running the file through LT roughing is 37 MM this is a diff of 12 MM that's a lot.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 24, 2010, 02:05:05 PM
Sounds like the IJ setting in config/general or the "reverse arcs in Turn" is selected.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 24, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Dennis,
Arts reply takes care of the crop circles.
Make sure you draw in radius, LT in radius, and Mach Turn in radius!
or Dia...dia...diameter
Trust me, from personal experience ....not good to mix them up  ;)
( Yes 12mm / almost a 1/2" is a lot)


To quickly test LT's code I just do a simple stepped  shaft reduction and a ball on the end of a shaft and all seems to
be on ( note that for a ball you will get flats since no arc coding is provided yet).

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 25, 2010, 01:35:27 PM
Art & Rich
Thanks for the response i do appreciate it i use Rhino for designs i draw a 2D shape save it as a DXF then import that into LT i do not draw the file as a 3D billet but a line type drawing to the height and length LT accepts the file from what i can tell correctly but the G-code output is off dose LT round to the nearest whole number also i use MM and i do draw the files in Radius half the Diam am I doing anything incorrectly at this point? should i upgrade to the latest version and then look to the item you have described above?

Thanks
Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 25, 2010, 04:46:09 PM
Dennis,
If i remember correctly  i did a simple drawing and compared posted  MM and imperial code and all was ok in the code.
I'll do that again.
I think you use Skype as that would be an easy way to see what's happening. My address is in my profile, so send me a Skype message so i can accept and then we can go from there.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 25, 2010, 06:19:33 PM
Dennis,
Glad you posted as it forced me to take a look at the manual and see what was in there for metric.
Additionaly i needed to refresh the memory some, and quess what........
I need to clarify / highlight some things. So rather than doing a lot of testing i will just post some generic questions for ART first.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 25, 2010, 07:50:04 PM
ART,
Just some not so obvious questions or comments which you may want to comment on.

1.LT will not convert units on import?
  It cares not if a unit of 1 is MM or inches from the DXF and thus selecting the MM in options dosn't affect the displayed profile dim's.
  The drawing should be done radius or  diameter and be in agreement with your Mach Turn configuration. ( lets not get into the scaling of things
  in Mach as that will just confuse) Draw in a system and keep that same system through the whole process.

2.In tools you need to check the box that the defined tool is metric.
   Don't just copy an Imperial  defined  tool , check that's it is metric, since LT will not do the conversions for the newly created tool.
   You can use metric or imperial defined tools.

3. The tool used defines the generated gcode units.
     If an Imperial  unit drawing is used and metric tool used then the gcode units will be MM. Note that the units are posted as a comment
        "       MM                            "                 Imperial      "                                  inches.
 
SEE reply #1441 ( Modified this reply on 7/27/2010 )

User should  use consistant units for the drawing and tools?
  
Can you think of some other's or highlight any built in restraints / errors?

I didn't spend a lot of time trying to break LT when mixing units and don't remember much in the way of any user comments.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: LTP on July 25, 2010, 09:10:39 PM
Hi,
I seem to be having a similar problem where i can not load lazy turn. Every time i try to open the LazyTurn file it get the error unable to find SGcore.dll. I have tryed to find the update file at http://www.machsupport.com/downloads.php but it seems like it has been pulled down. Any ideas?

Thanks
Lachie G
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 25, 2010, 09:34:50 PM
Hi Guys:

1.LT will not convert units on import?
 
   Nope, but Ill consider that for next development cycle. At the moment its basically asking if the input is metric or standard. Many DXF's dont say
in any regard.

2.In tools you need to check the box that the defined tool is metric.
   Don't just copy an Imperial  defined  tool , check that's it is metric, since LT will not do the conversions for the newly created tool.
   You can use metric or imperial defined tools.

 Yup. :)

3. The tool used defines the generated gcode units.
     If an Imperial  unit drawing is used and metric tool used then the gcode units will be MM. Note that the units are posted as a comment
        "       MM                            "                 Imperial      "                                  inches.
   User should  use consistant units for the drawing and tools?

>> Not sure about that at all. If you use a standard tool in metric mode, I suspect it simply codes the tool as .25mm or soemthing.. Ill list that for a fix as
well.


   
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 26, 2010, 11:42:47 AM
ART,
See attached test as comment #3 below is incorrect.

Wording should say:

LT APPLIES THE SELECTED TOOL ( can be a metric or imperial tool ) IN PATH GENERATION, BUT, THE POSTED GCODE IS STILL BASED
ON THE TYPE OF IMPORTED DRAWING.

Quote
3. The tool used defines the generated gcode units.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 26, 2010, 11:59:30 AM
Rich & Art
Ok this explains a lot now so if i use LT i have to make my drawing in inches well at least i know what's going on thanks.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 26, 2010, 01:07:26 PM
Dennis,
Quote
so if i use LT i have to make my drawing in inches


No you can make you drawing in whatever units you want.
What i personnaly would not do,  is mix thimgs up.
Draw in radius and mm, import in diameter, metric and imperial tool use, want a post in imperial, and then who knows what in Mach Config, or using axis scaling.......extreme example, but that is just asking for trouble!
KISS applies on my end! ;)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 26, 2010, 03:15:49 PM
ART,
 RossF is getting an error "LazyTurn Art Code: 0"  when trying to import a know good dxf file into LazyTurn.

Can you define what the error means?

here is link to his post:
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,15452.msg103679.html#msg103679

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 26, 2010, 06:15:40 PM
Rich
I do my drawing's in MM Radius and then import that file into LT so i guess this is the problem it's the way i have been doing it this way i guess i will either learn do it another way or wait until LT gets fixed.

Dennis 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 26, 2010, 07:46:12 PM
Dennis,
Quote
do my drawing's in MM Radius .......... so i guess this is the problem


I haven't  tested to confirm that.........

I work in mainly in inches,  and use both radius and diameter mode, and wasn't aware of any problems imperial wise.
SO i figured maybe it's a quirk with metric mode, but as shown in the test doc i posted ( correct i didn't try radius mode ),  figured
there should be no problem in radius / metric mode.

------------------------------------
Did you try the equivilent in diameter mode for your drawing?
Basicaly the x pathing moves would be half of the value as compared to the diameter mode.

---------------------------------------
Post a dxf file you are using, PLEASE,  and having a problem with. Also post the gcode for it out of LT.

That will save us a lot of time,
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on July 27, 2010, 11:29:22 AM
Rich
Thanks for your time looking into this but now that i have an idea of what to look for i will play with the file and see what i find and get back to guy's with my finding's.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mhackney on October 05, 2010, 01:43:38 PM
I was getting the same error. I run Windows XP service pack 3 on a VMWare image (just to experiment with software, not control my machines!).

I googled SGCore.dll and found this: http://www.geometros.com/download/index.htm  Simply download, unzip and put SGCore.dll in your Mach folder. Works!

cheers,
Michael

Hi,
I seem to be having a similar problem where i can not load lazy turn. Every time i try to open the LazyTurn file it get the error unable to find SGcore.dll. I have tryed to find the update file at http://www.machsupport.com/downloads.php but it seems like it has been pulled down. Any ideas?

Thanks
Lachie G
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 08, 2010, 06:01:33 AM
Hi Art,
Just wondering when and if your going to get back to LazyTurn?

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 08, 2010, 06:21:00 AM
Hi Rich:

   I will, but I have a few things to do with Gearotic before I do. I havent peeked at the code for some time, what do you think are the real requirements at this point to call a finish pass done. A lot depends on what I CAN do vs what is required at this point. I know the last time I used it it did provide me with enough code to do what I needed to do, though the finish pass was perhaps a bit too broken up. ( though it did do a proper finish..)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 08, 2010, 06:13:25 PM
Art,
I'll go back and see were we left off and then post a list with explaination on each.
There wasn't that much. Posting of the finish pass was not done.

BTW, Tried the Gearotic and must say it's one slick program.......nice piece of work.   :)

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 10, 2010, 07:11:49 PM
Art,
Spent some time reading over the manual and going back in the thread.

This is what is left and have added some options with comments which only you can decide:

G2 & C3  circular interpolation in posting of the finish pass code.

Options:
1. The arc coding can be an option which could be pursued at some other time.
    Higher end programs have it, but Lt is not meant to compete with them. Maybe it needs to be restricted such that
    any arc in the profile must pass thru two or three points such that it can be defined, and if not, then that particular arc
    is not done and a appropriate move is made to the next / real arc..........
 
2.You can leave the finish pass as is and consider it done

3.Just add the gcode for the profile ( the profile as shown by the black line when the dxf is first imported into LT)
   and have the profile posted at the end of the code. Of course that code would have arc programing  within some rules
   and would be strickly the profile ( not based on any tool ).
   It could be an import option and post imeadiately to a user defined file name. Lt then would be as it currently is / option 2.
   Whatever is easy for you.

I would like option 3.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 10, 2010, 07:53:17 PM
Just to add, I would also love option 3 as well.  :)

Thanks as alwyas-
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 10, 2010, 09:21:48 PM
Hi Rich:

  Im not sure the code will convert to arc well, I did try that last year, but it converted very little as very few motions actually represent a true arc..

  I think option 3 woudl be OK, it should be easy for me to put out a no-tool Gcode of the actual profile, though Im still unsure how much use that is..

Ill post it for option 3..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on November 10, 2010, 09:45:53 PM
Art,
Sounds good, see what you can do with option #3.  ;)

BTW...Just my comment to all users FWIW. Personally i am just going to use the program and see what happens over time.
I figured that after a year, and very few posted problems with the finish pass, it must be rather stable. You may find some issues
with a tolerance under the .001" as has been stated before.

As far as the using the actual profile code .....well, good grief another appendix to the Manual ???
There will be another update on the manual in the future.  just need to clean one or two of the appendix's.

That said, should see an article in a future printing of Digital Magazine on LazyTurn.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on November 10, 2010, 10:36:09 PM
Rich:

 Excellent. You know, your just as much to blame for LazyTurn existing as I am.. Ill send you 1/2 of its revenues in perpetuiity..

:)

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on November 11, 2010, 05:09:30 AM
Rich:

 Excellent. You know, your just as much to blame for LazyTurn existing as I am.. Ill send you 1/2 of its revenues in perpetuiity..

:)

Art



Agreed, Rich has done so much for this program and I'm very appreciative of you both for the work you've done.

Thank you-
Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 03, 2010, 07:37:17 PM
Hi Art,
A graphics display and tool problem in Lazyturn.
See attached file for explaination.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 03, 2010, 08:17:09 PM
Hi Rich:

  Hmm, interesting. I suspect its the rather bad handling Im doing of the OpenGL screen. But Im only just learning that as I do Gearotic Motion. My knowledge of the OpenGL intricacies is getting better daily, so soon, when I spend a week on LTurn, Ill fix that up and make things to proper relationships.

  Im pretty sure we'll find its the result of my scaling code or something. Good thing the Gcode uses the actual numbers rather than the display..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: wireman on December 04, 2010, 07:30:21 AM
sorry to be a pain guys but I'm new to this. Have downloaded, read manual and got it working except when I post gcode it just makes an empty file...there is no gcode in it. I have run the sim and highlighted the toolpath in the left box but still no code.....help please?
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on December 04, 2010, 07:36:34 AM
That is a very common problem in Win7.
I think I posted the fix and I think it is in the manual too.

Mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: wireman on December 04, 2010, 07:49:09 AM
OK, run it under winxp compatability and it works....thanks for the nudge....
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: TOTALLYRC on December 04, 2010, 07:56:32 AM
No problem.

What kind of lathe do you have?

I am getting my DM3000H lathe ready to go so I can use it on that.

Mike
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 04, 2010, 07:58:08 AM
Mike,
Not in the manual yet.....do have a reminder to add it in section 5.16. Should be in the next manual update.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: wireman on December 04, 2010, 10:03:55 AM
I have a boxford converted to run mach3....I've had it for a couple of years but just getting round to use it...the weather has put paid to that at present cos its out in a unheated garage....
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 11, 2010, 09:51:23 AM
Hi All,
I had a disaster on my PC, and lost everything, files, dxf's, cad, mach, and just is unbelievable what happened. Now tring to get back some, if not most of the things I lost. RICH, or anyone else, know where I can get the last LazyTurn, Lathe up to date file .zip so I can at least get going on doing some part programming again. Your Help is Greatly Appreciated.   Thanks So Much,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 11, 2010, 12:18:58 PM
Hank,
Sorry to hear about the pc . May i recommend that you invest in a program like Acronis ( $45 ) and backup the whole pc onto an external independant drive ( they are cheap these days ).
Makes for a complete installation ( does the operating system also )  back to a new pc lin ess than a 1/2 hour.

Quote
LazyTurn, Lathe up to date file .zip


It's in the manual on page 6. .......   Go to the LazyTurn Thread , reply #1349, page 135 for the update.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 11, 2010, 12:42:07 PM
Rich,
Thank's A Billion, just what I was looking for.
As for the PC, I don't want to get into details on this fourm,BUT, it was the backup drive that took a $$it. Go figure. And thanks for the solution you had mentioned. I think I will invest in a B.U. seperate from the PC.  Thanks Again,    Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 11, 2010, 12:47:58 PM
At least it was a good one ......... ;) ;D ::)
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on December 14, 2010, 12:01:19 PM
Hi Guy's checking in
is there been a finished version of LT ?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on December 14, 2010, 12:09:17 PM
Hi Guy's checking in
is there been a finished version of LT ?

Dennis

Hi Dennis, to get caught up, reading from post  #1450 should get you up to speed.

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 15, 2010, 05:40:47 PM
Hi et All,
I had a PC Failure and lost 70.6GB .dxf .tap .nc .dxf drawings,and who's knows what else comes to mind. ''Thanks Symantic for your Great Backup Software''. Needless to say, Onward, and Forward. I am tring to get LTurn back in operation, and have DL'ed the last zip file avaliable as Rich has pointed me to. I need to find the Lvkrn15u.dll and SgCore.dll, so I can get back up to speed,without Searching the 146 pages of documented fourme's on the LazyTurn fourrm. Can anyone give me a clue as to where I might locate the 2 files needed to get going again. It might be a real pleasure to have the latest LTurn done with all the files configured in an .exe file,as this would be much more easier for someone to get to know, and figuer out how to use LT. Just an Observation. Thanks to All for Your Help.   Thanks,   Hank S.  
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 15, 2010, 06:12:51 PM
You need to have LazyCam ver 3.00.2 installed as it has files which LT needs and maybe they are the ones your missing.
LC 3.00.2 is installed with later versions of Mach.
See the Manual .....page 6....

Sorry about the confusion Hank.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 15, 2010, 07:42:25 PM
Rich,
I Really Appreciate your Support for Remembering All,the Files and Structure's that are in the works of Lazy Turn and Others.
My Deepest Gradatude to you, and Others.    Thanks,    Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 18, 2010, 02:54:41 PM
Hi Again,
I have another problem,thought it was fixed,and now getting an error.'' Application was unable to start correctly Oxc0000022 click ok to close the app''. Now what in the world is going on. I shut down the New PC last night,and was working with mach running some GCode elapse times to estimate,and when starting up this AM,tried to get a win 7 update .Net frame 4 client was installed,and then was going to work on getting some lathe projects, back into order, and found this error. Can anyone help as to what may have happened. L.C. works as should,Mach mill works, Mach lathe works as should, LazyTurn has the shortcut on the desktop, but keep's posting the error.   Thanks,  Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 18, 2010, 04:57:54 PM
Hank,
I can't help you with the error message. I am only guessing that it's W7 ( which i don't use ) related but can't say for sure.
Hopefully someone else can help.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 18, 2010, 05:06:15 PM
Rich,
Yes it is Win7, as it worked before in the last mess. on the 15th I believe,all was fine ? Maybe Art will see this and have some input, I did'nt do anything,but install an update?    Thanks,    Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 18, 2010, 07:30:20 PM
Hi Hank:

 Its a known Win7 thing.. Do a google check for "0xc00000021" or whatever the error is, I think its a permissions you have to change on a file after your upgrading was complete..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 18, 2010, 08:34:54 PM
Art,
Thanks for your suggestion. I already said it was running LT, and when I did the update, net frame 4 client profile win7x64 it craped out. Oh now I wonder, if I did the right thing, about getting a newPC,or just the model I got, Instead of getting something that would run like XP, but for reasons,I just thought that a PC's a PC's,and Mach has always run exceptionally well,mind you, the few glitch's, but that is probably due to user interruptis..... Head Space.  Thanks, I look for some info,regarding the said.   Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on December 18, 2010, 09:15:10 PM
Hank:

 The meaning of the error is:

ERROR 0XC0000022: STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED.This error is due to {Access Denied} A process has requested access to an object but has not been granted those access rights..The default facility code

  Try running in Admin mode.. Win7 can be a pain when not runnign a program in admin mode.  Just select properties for the shortcut and turn on admin mode for the program.

  Other sites say there is a file in the system folder that is mistakenly set to read-only when you upgrade Win7.. you may want to search a bit for that if admin doesnt fix you up.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on December 19, 2010, 08:36:04 AM
Art,
 Thanks, 
Got it, and will put this one on the shelf, for Another day. I know $$IT will happen Again,and I might be Prepaired...

Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: aclausing on January 10, 2011, 04:49:36 PM
Rich,
Very nice Read in DM. I, and others should gain some more knowledge,and be more adpt, to LT. Very Interesting,and should be added to my folder on books that really mean something. Ah, but there are always the Grimlins, that need a stir as usual. Thanks for Your Input, Great Job.    Thanks,   Hank S.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 10, 2011, 05:05:29 PM
Thanks Hank,
Hopefully there will more LT users having fun with their lathes because of the article.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on January 16, 2011, 11:35:03 AM
Thanks Hank,
Hopefully there will more LT users having fun with their lathes because of the article.

RICH

What article? Getting ready to start the conversion of a manual lathe to CNC and am starting to look for lathe CAM options. A friend mentioned Lazy Turn so am reading up on it, where its at in development, what it can and can't do. Home shop environment, having lots of fun learing. Easy CAM options a definite plus!
Thank Art for your effort on this...
Marty
Mesa, AZ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on January 16, 2011, 11:37:00 AM
That would be the article in Digital Machinist that I believe just came out.

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 16, 2011, 12:55:52 PM
MARTY,
Here is the link to a manual for LT in Members Docs. It covers what it can and can't do.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12078.msg77415.html#msg77415

An article about LT was published in the Winter 2010 Digital Magazine. The manual covers the program in depth.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on January 19, 2011, 12:15:52 AM
Greetings,

Any idea why LT is creating finish passes inside the finished part?

Please have a look at the attached files.

Thanks much,
Kerry Harrison
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on January 19, 2011, 07:18:05 AM
MARTY,
Here is the link to a manual for LT in Members Docs. It covers what it can and can't do.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12078.msg77415.html#msg77415

An article about LT was published in the Winter 2010 Digital Magazine. The manual covers the program in depth.

RICH

Rich I find the docs for LAZY CAM but not LT??
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 19, 2011, 07:39:15 AM
Hi Kerry,
  The radius point for the tip of your drawing is actuall in the Y+ quadrant creating an undercut at the face end of the profile.
I changed the radius point to be Y 0.0000 and it seems to be OK .
You could try my modified DXF to verify.
Just a shot, hope it helps.
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 19, 2011, 08:01:53 AM
As  Russ pointed out your profile needs to be continuous ie; no gaps and all lines connected.
Additionally the start of the profile should move away from Z=0 and not go to the plus side.
Have a look at the manual on drafting problems.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 19, 2011, 08:04:03 AM
Marty,
My bad, here is the link:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.msg62041.html#msg62041

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 19, 2011, 10:06:07 AM
Rich:

  I just read the article in Digital Machinist. . Excellent! Thanks so much for the credits, alwasy a kick to see your name in print. You did a fine job and showed LTurn can be handy for many people needing those quick toolpaths for a lathe.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on January 19, 2011, 10:41:44 AM
Fixing the toolpath solved the problem as you guys suggested. Thanks! Guess I need to zoom in a little closer on my toolpaths and check for errors.

One other question:
When I output file with a finish pass there are always several lines with two line numbers. Of course Turn sees this as an error and one line number must be removed before the file can be used. Please see the attached screenshot.

Is there a way to keep this from happening?

Thanks again for your help, I sure appreciate it.

Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 19, 2011, 11:31:29 AM
Interesting, never saw the double line numbers before..

 Ill add to my list to get rid of that possability..
Youll have to edit them out for now. Ill try to fix it this week or next.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 19, 2011, 04:29:54 PM
Kerry,
I have never seen the double line before and just tried your file 3 times to generate more lines of code.
Quirk? I will leave this one to Art.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 19, 2011, 04:55:15 PM
Hey guys, I've been getting this all along.
It occurs  at the first G0 after the first (of two) finish passes typically.
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on January 19, 2011, 05:58:23 PM
Rich:

   Ahh, thats probably it.. maybe we always had 1 finish pass and its injecting after the first..

Ill try to get to it as soon as I can..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 19, 2011, 09:51:37 PM
Art,
I guess we quess better on the rough and only need one finish pass. ;)
That's what's so good about a new  user, they find what we can't!

Got to post Russ when you find anything.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 20, 2011, 12:56:44 AM
 I usually use 1 finish pass to knock the corners off of the roughing pass, then a final finish to leave a good smooth finish.
But, I've got a sloppy set-up. Just a hobby rig.
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on January 20, 2011, 01:02:25 AM
Art,
I guess we quess better on the rough and only need one finish pass. ;)
That's what's so good about a new  user, they find what we can't!

Got to post Russ when you find anything.

RICH
Man .... You guys ar KING !
 I might catch up one of these days.
Thanks,
 :)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on January 20, 2011, 07:21:25 AM
Marty,
My bad, here is the link:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.msg62041.html#msg62041

RICH

Thanks Rich, is single point threading being worked on? Handy part of a CNC lathe ya know. :-)
Marty
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 20, 2011, 11:50:55 AM
Marty,
Threading works fine in Mach Turn. Threading is not part of LazyTurn as you use the Wizards to generate the code.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhowelb on February 16, 2011, 12:42:32 PM
Can someone point me to the latest LT download?

Please and thank you.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 16, 2011, 01:24:16 PM
From the manual ... "LazyTurn thread, reply #1349, page 135."
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhrs_2008 on February 17, 2011, 03:19:34 PM
Dear All
I use Lazyturn and press the post button, all thing is ok, but i still get nothing in the *.tap file,
It is nothing in the *.tap file.
Why???!!!!!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jhrs_2008 on February 17, 2011, 03:21:46 PM
Dear All
I use Lazyturn and press the post button, all thing is ok, but i still get nothing in the *.tap file,
It is nothing in the *.tap file.
Why???!!!!! isn't the Lazyturn a free program?but it said onthing about this ,
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 17, 2011, 03:28:15 PM
First you hit the Green PST button, then you hit the Post button in the lower right corner of the pop up Post Generator window (after entering any preperatory info if necessary). Then name the file and Save AS in the next pop up. Then SAVE and you will see the code.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 17, 2011, 03:33:05 PM
Also, take a look here ,
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,15727.0.html
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on February 28, 2011, 06:16:29 PM
hi Guy's
I had posted a question regarding is a finished version of LT was done but now i don't even see my post have I been banished ?

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Overloaded on February 28, 2011, 06:36:52 PM
Hey Dennis, you posted under the other topic.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,15727.10.html
Regards,
Russ
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on February 28, 2011, 11:35:29 PM
Hi Dennis:

  Didnt see your question.. The last version made of LazyTurn is posted in the forum.. see previous post a few notes back on message number. But I believe its the same version as in Brians lazycam download..

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 02, 2011, 12:51:33 PM
Hi Art & all
Thanks for your reply and all the work that you have put into LT i guess from what i am reading LT has gone as far as it's going to well i guess that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on March 02, 2011, 01:24:32 PM
Dennis:

  Ill probably do one more final version when I can find the time. I need to fix one bug reported recently, and perhaps put
out the main profile as Gcode as Rich requested. ( Though Im unconvinced its really usefulll lol )

   The project was originally meant simply as a free utility for generating paths from a dxf.. Its pretty much there. It could go much further but I suspect Id have to dedicate a year or more and comercialise it to do so.. not something Im inclined to at the
moment.

Thx
Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: DennisF on March 02, 2011, 06:49:27 PM
Hi ART
First off again thanks for taking this far as to the G-code i like it because if there is a glitch i can track it down and remove that line of code such as i do in the mill side.
Well i will check back in looking for the last version of LT.

Dennis
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on August 14, 2011, 12:55:47 PM
Hi Guy's

I have being out A period and now I see the last post is from march, is Lazyturn come to an end or????
What is the latest version?

Greeting:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: budman68 on August 14, 2011, 01:12:15 PM
Hi Guy's

I have being out A period and now I see the last post is from march, is Lazyturn come to an end or????
What is the latest version?

Greeting:
Willem

The last version was « Reply #1349 on: March 07, 2010, 10:57:17 AM » but I didn't use it as it gave some errors in the GCode numbers for me.

I use:« Reply #1337 on: March 05, 2010, 08:29:40 AM »

Dave
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on August 14, 2011, 01:54:32 PM
Thanks for te update Dave.

Greeting:
Willem
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: W.Jansen on September 23, 2011, 11:24:37 AM
Hi all

But no messages so is Laziturn RIP

Greeting:
W.Jansen
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on September 23, 2011, 07:50:53 PM
Quote
is Laziturn RIP

It's been sleeping for a long time. Who knows ...could be realated to RipVan Winkle?
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on September 24, 2011, 12:04:28 AM
I knew Art made Lazy Turn lazy on purpose but it should be rested up by now.  ;) 

Sure would be nice if it could wake up this winter and get those bugs on the To Do list fixed. I use it regularly and it's a pain to have to edit the same errors out of the code each and every time.

Just a gentle nudge to let you know we're using the lazy bugger out here.  :)

Thanks,
Kerry Harrison
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: lcvette on January 26, 2012, 02:56:12 PM
Hay guys,

Can someone point me towards a tutorial for Lazycam and maybe which version would be best to use?  Thanks in advance!

Chris
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 26, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
Chris,
There is a manual for LazyCam and Lazyturn in Members Docs .

Kerry,
You never know what Art may decide to do. Don't want to build up your hopes though.
If there were more folks using it he would probably do something with it but unfortunately that dosen't seem to be the case.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Kerry Harrison on January 26, 2012, 04:57:47 PM
That makes sense Rich. I figured it doesn't hurt to ask though.

Thanks,
Kerry
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: dbvogt on January 28, 2012, 09:26:12 PM
If the manuals were more visible, maybe more people would take the plunge knowing the resources were out there. It's not until I set up Mach Turn to run a recently retrofitted Sherline that I found there was a LazyTurn manual. There are a lot of messages asking if manuals even exist.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on January 29, 2012, 04:26:10 AM
Open to any suggestions since here is what is listed under Documentation.

RICH

Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: asitech on October 07, 2012, 10:04:56 PM
Hay guys
"There is a manual for LazyCam and Lazyturn in Members Docs "
cent find it  link whold help
tenks
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on October 08, 2012, 06:36:47 AM
TENKS,
Click on Members Doc's and about the 2nd and tenth threads you will find the manuals.
RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: asitech on October 08, 2012, 06:25:44 PM
hi rich
i cant find the " Members Doc's " area serch 7 cent findit
where is it the folder i ment
thanks
asi
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on October 08, 2012, 07:06:23 PM
asi,

under MACHSUPPORT FORUM
-Scroll down to Support, click on  Members Doc's
-13 th down the list of postings....click LAZYTURN MANUAL
Open or download the manual.
or
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10091.msg62041.html#msg62041

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: asitech on October 08, 2012, 11:21:23 PM
hi rich
thanks
all ok
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: d__walker on May 20, 2013, 06:02:51 AM
Good day! I'm trying to install LT but it's written that there is no Lvkrnu.dll! What is the problem?
Regards
Valery
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on May 20, 2013, 06:43:13 AM
Valery,
Install LT per instructions shown on page 6 of the manual which can be found in Members Doc's.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jviggers on December 17, 2013, 03:18:22 PM
There is not much activity on this LazyTurn forum!  I am fairly new to LT, and I was excited by the possibilities for the program but I am discouraged by the absence of attention to the bugs.  For example, the fine cut finishing always generates G code in radius mode, even when diameter mode is specified.   I don't want to rejig my Mach3 to radius mode, and other workarounds are even more trouble.
Question….    Given that lazy turn is in limbo land, is there an alternative similar program out there which will generate G Codes .  I don't mind paying, just need a name….
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 17, 2013, 04:01:54 PM
jviggers,
Under options you can select what mode you are in so just tick for Diameter. Now remember that you should not mix things up....units, drawing , select mode, and also config Mach the same mode. 

Still not that manny software options available for the lathe user. You may want to have a look at Dolphin Lathe.
That's the one that I use or said differetenly, could rationalize out purchasing. :)

RICH
 
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: mc on December 21, 2013, 02:31:11 PM
CamBam also has some basic lathe functionality (the dxf has to be drawn in a certain plane, and it can only handle external turning). It's always worth trying, as the demo allows you to use the full program with no restrictions 40 times before locking you out, unlike other program trials where various features are crippled so you can't really test the program.

The next option is Dolphin, which if you qualify for the hobby license, is pretty good value.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jviggers on December 21, 2013, 04:37:21 PM
Thanks Rich and MC... 
I like Lazy Turn.  It is simple and it is free.  I have checked the settings for radius-diameter mode in LT and Mach Turn and still no joy.  Reading through other posts I see that quite a few other users are having similar problems, so I do suspect a bug.
I have 2 workarounds.  First, to work in radius mode in LT and M3, and use fine turning only.  In initial run I take deep cuts, then still in fine mode I take the finishing cuts.  The only disadvantage of this is having to work in radius mode and the file size is bigger.  Not that file size matters.
The second workaround, is to use diameter mode in LT and M3, and to use another program to double all of the X measurements in the fine mode runs.  It does work, but is a pain.

Thankyou for the suggestions of Cambam and Dolphin.  Dolphin looks good, but the best price on offer to me is $395.  I am not sure why I am not being offered the hobby price.  I sure as hell don't make any money out of this hobby!   Cambam for the lathe looks to be in a very early stage of development.

What a shame the Lazy Turn programming has not been tidied up!
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 21, 2013, 04:54:32 PM
Post your dxf file that you are using. Haven't used LT in some time and will take a look when I get a chance.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on December 21, 2013, 05:19:38 PM
Quote
Reading through other posts I see that quite a few other users are having similar problems, so I do suspect a bug.
I don't recall those posts and assume that they were not recent.

I just tried a few files in LT, based on  Radius or Diameter selection and it posted  correct gcode for each.
So it does work.

I may be wrong,  but the LT version which is included with LazyCam download may not be the latest Lazyturn release. ???
A memory bell is ringing....but could be a wrong tone!  :D

SO
Have a look in the Lazyturn Manual which can be found in Members Doc's and you will find the correct way to intsall it and the latest version.

RICH  ;)
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: jviggers on December 29, 2013, 02:49:55 PM
Problem fixed!  I installed the exe file from the latest version of LazyTurn, and the radius - diameter problem has disappeared.  Thank you for the suggestion.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Greg B on July 05, 2014, 05:54:11 PM
can anyone tell me or send me a link to the latest copy of lazyturn. I've been looking for it so I can use it on my home made lathe to turn some odd shapes from a DXF file. the manual I have is for 4/17/2010 REV:8 is this the latest copy of lazyturn? Cheers Greg B
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: RICH on July 06, 2014, 04:44:57 AM
From page 6 of 50 item 4.4 in the manual, here is a link to LazyTurn rel 1.1 :

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,5767.msg95122.html#msg95122

You have the latest copy of the manual.

RICH
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: ART on July 06, 2014, 07:26:47 AM
wow.. just noticed over 5000 posts here. Thats amazing.. I didnt realize how much LTurn is still looked at.

Art
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: Greg B on July 08, 2014, 03:37:47 AM
Thanks Rich and Art I will have a look and see what I can do. from what I have read about this programme it is very useful for the hobbyist like me. Cheers Greg B
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: zarzul on July 08, 2014, 12:03:29 PM
I just finished making a oar handle for my raft using lazyturn.  It came out nice.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: redg8r on February 17, 2016, 01:09:33 AM
Heres a copy of sgcore.dll if anyone else needs it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jpctxur1lwu6a1a/sgCore.dll?dl=0

I dropped it into mach3 folder and was finally able to open LazyTurn on a win8 machine.
Title: Re: LazyTurn
Post by: scorpi on July 23, 2016, 03:51:06 PM
Hi together. I want to test lazyturn and I download it from the second post. But if I want to start I get a error message that the shared library lvkm15u.dll is missing. I'm using windows 7 64bit. Any hints?

thanks, KS