Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: wantcnc on February 10, 2008, 03:21:48 PM
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Just got myself an old emco turn 120P ;D
when I picked it up I got a shock :o in that it has a large DC spindle, which I did not expect
This motor is a siemens 1GL5104-0EZ40-6JU7-Z and the drive is the emco one, which seems 3 phase fed.
I would love to keep the motor, so am trying to get info on it, none seems available on the net
Has anyone converted a 120P to mach and retained the steppers and drivers, seem Ok so why waste them?
any info would be welcome
especially schematics as I would happily pay for those....
JB
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Hi, JB
I think, Most of these machines are 380 volt 3 phase, Did you get a transformer with it, 220/440 to 380 ?
You may be able to drive the spindle with a VFD 220 1 ph to 220 3 ph control.
As far as the steppers go, Ether make a interface board for the driver boards or use Gecko's or other's types out there.
Post some pictures of the stepper cont. boards, spindle control and basic layout.
I looked on cnc-zone didn't find much, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14548&highlight=emco+120p .
Just a Start, Chip
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Thanks Chip
The machine was wired for 3 phases (UK), The control, stepper system is ran from single phase ( L1 + N ), the spindle drive / oil pump are 3 phase
this would have been connected directly to the main network.
by the looks of things (phase anshnit steuerung) the spindle drive is a thyristor drive which means it needs the 3 phases for the timings (3 controlled rectifiers 1 for each phase)
so either I have to re-create 3 individual phases (much like an AC drive) or somehow send timing signals to a single pair of rectifiers....
I looked at single phase DC drives and they seem quite costly...still some investigation needed.
The plan is to disconnect the drive for now and fire up the system, see what works and what I can raided for Mach control
diagrams would have made it all so much easier...but then I got this at a good price
it is surprising how little info there is on these machines
pics of the control unit, note the 3 pole ABB breaker left of the spindle drive, also note the 3 black wires and blue neutral wire going into the top of the drive
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HI
just seen your post.
if you still need help let me know, I'm very familiar with these machines.
D
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we can all always use help :-)
I have been lucky in that the UK importer send me the diagrams which makes life a lot easier
So far I have removed the DC spindle drive as there was no sensible solution to running it from single phase
The money spend on making 3 phase/changing the DC drive would easily pay for an AC spindle with closed loop control
Stepper wise, well they seem to work (powered it up) Not seen any movement yet as I have remove the controller cards
(intend on sticking mach3 on this thing) if they behave I will keep them, what is odd is that according to the docs, they are set to full step and not halfstep
(bearing in mind these are 5 phase steppers) I would have though this runs at high resolution....
if work does not keep me away from it, I hope to run step/dir signals mid week....
currently I am mapping out the control signals between LPT and a cubloc
what seems odd is that the monitor only has a ribbon loom going to it (with composite signals) and no power ????
so that is why i did not bother firring up the full system.
Getting ahead of myself here I am looking to find tooling for this thing, as the toolholders seem Emco specific, do you know of a source ?
what is your experience with them , do you run them as per "factory setting" or have you converted ?
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I used to have one of these 5 years ago. Was a good peice of kit!
Unfortunatley it died when I moved it and I didn't have the time or inclination to fix it.
I sold it to the guy who is going to help with my Hurco retrofit so it will live again one day......
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Hurco... got my Inventor training at their place (toolbox software) was rather distracting those monster machines
Thanks for responding, you may be able to tell me where I can find tool holders for the turret
I have two units for boring bars/drills and a busch
I have no OD tooling...which limits my options a bit ;).
I will have a set of controller cards free to be sold later on(say a month or two)... if that helps the other guy
still use them to work out the original wiring and circuits
also for sale is a full DC drive units (motor/electronics/main stage with chokes) ;D
JB
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I just turned the bushed for the drills etc.
I got the turning tools for the outer slots from J&L. Just cut them to length and made packing peices where needed.
There should be a big grey transformer box with the machine as it runs on a different voltage.
I'll let my man know that you will have spares. From talking to an engineer who specialises in these the Axis cards are not very reliable.
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Thanks for the info, will have a search at J&Ls slow website
on the control side, I have managed to interface to the original stepper drivers,
the next step is to talk to the other bits like the tool turret control and some of the aux controls
non of this worries me to much (i work in electronics) altough I occasionally need to look in some very old books to understand what emco has designed
in the late 80ties (8088 micro, BDT64C transistor......Ooooold school)
I noticed that the machine favours high feed rates as low stepper speeds make a lots of noise.....
does that tally with your experience of them ?
grey controller box?? :o I have the machine on a stand, and a controller box on a stand
that is all as far as I can see.. if was a 3 phase machine
Ah yes the controller front panel is also surplus to requirement....
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To be honest I cant remeber how noisy it was but there was definatley a seperate grey bosxwith big transformer in it!
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are you in the US or another 120/208Vac Country ?? this would explain the transformer box, used to kick up the voltage to 240/440 ??
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I'm in the Uk and it was reducing the voltage but I can't remember what to!
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Hi there,
Very I am very interested in this post as I am currently in the process of upgrading a 120 myself. I completely agree with HurcoMatt the emco stepper boards are unreliable and have a tendancy to "pop" every now and then. Even better, Emco have now discontinued the service for them and components are becoming hard to come by. HK can supply you with a refurbished step board somewhere in the region of £1000 GBP if it goes down but they come with no warranty.
I am in the process of developing a new microprocessor based controller for the steppers, so far it is looking good. The DC spindle can be hooked up to a Parker SSD unit from inverterdrives.co.uk the 514 series is what you are looking for as it is a 4Q drive and just use the armature voltage feedback connection within the motor for the speed control.
Mike
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Hi Mike
Things have moved on a bit..but not enough, work keeps getting in the way
I decided to go for AC spindle drive (Hitachi as I have other machines with it) so a 2kw motor and inverter, this all works fine up to 3k rpm
the axis are still on the Emco stepper drive, as long as they work I will keep them.(thanks for the info on replacement cost...cant see me using them)
I have chopped the card frame in pieces and interface to the stepper cards from a custom breakout board , I used the same driver circuit as Emco used
to drive the stepper. 7407 all this has been proven...
I then changed the control box as it now lives under the machine in the back (box is actually upside down/back to front)
this gives me ample room for a comell ITX board, inverter and two stepper drives with original transformer on top.
I finished the mechanicals and sensor fixing last weekend, so part of this weekend will be wiring the thing up
I need to finish the custom breakout board as it uses a cubloc for the extra signals. in their wisdom cubloc has been made using a 2mm pitch connector, not quite suitable for Vero board, so I need to engrave a conversion board (CNC mill)
I still need to sort out the collet chuck which I would love to automate (have lot of repetitive work from bar) hence the cubloc
I am also keeping an eye out for smoothstepper as it may help in the speeds (no lathe support yet)
I'll see if I can post a few pics latter on the weekend
what stage are you with the control?, is there a reason why you design your own stepper drive ? (other then 5 phase)
apparently Berger larh does sell them, if you ask nicely, I do not know what price
JB
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Hi,
I just picked up a 120P that had no control and no spindle motor. I have a Grizzly 9x20 lathe I already converted to Mach and this lathe is next!
Does anyone know where I can find a wiring diagram of the toolchanger sensors?
wantcnc,
How is your conversion going?
Thank you for any help,
Cutmore
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I just bought EMCO Turn 120 P vith ET 02 control. when I turn it on everything was ok. then asked to insert a floppy disc. when I threw it asked me to format, I pressed YES, after that they came on the screen horizontal and vertical lines. Now can not do anything. I managed to run a tool to turn, and fluid.
Please help me what to do. Thank uapred. Greetings from Pedja
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hi,
i converted my emcoturn 120 to Mach3, see the movies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWdTUxK7ABM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWdTUxK7ABM)
i changed the DC motor to an asynchronus 400Vac motor with VFD. the VFD is controlled by mach3
i used the original steppermotors (5 phase) with new Berger Lahr drives
tantan
The Netherlands
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Hi
I am looking for users manual for Emco Turno 120P
Thanks a LOT
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if someone wants new 5 phase berger lahr steppermotor cards; i sell them now on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250576577576&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250576577576&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT)
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Do you know what year your machine is ?
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I am in need of a manual for a Emco Pc 120 turn lathe. Does anyone have any ideas?