Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Chaoticone on February 05, 2008, 01:39:39 PM
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We are looking for a viable solution for one on one phone tech support. Any ideas you have on this subject are welcome. Mach users cover a broad range. From hobbiest just wanting to play, job shops who use it everyday to earn a living, and OEMs that use it as a foundation of income for lots of people. We want to come up with a solution that will benefit, be accepted, and be helpful to all. As with all things in the beginning, It will not be flawless from the start. Due to limited man power, there may be considerable waiting times. I'm guessing we would have a "Click here for live support" tab. Once you click it the next available supporter will set up payment arrangements, most likely paypal, and introduce their self. If all goes well we would add over time supporters in different time zones around the world. The ultimate goal is to have 24 hour support although I suspect it would take some time to get to that point. I think we would have a pretty consistant 18 hour window now, perhaps more.
Brett
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Cast your vote now. We want your input.
Brett
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Hello Guy's,
I guess it really depends on what the average time an average problem takes to solve.
I voted for the first one 5 minute increments.
Bill
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In the free market, those who are willing to pay more for it should get a faster responce.
imho Drew
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Is a license required for phone support?
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In the free market, those who are willing to pay more for it should get a faster responce.
imho Drew
Thanks Drew, This is a very good point. I don't think there will be a one size fits all option for Phone support. Most likely there will be a pay per call option and one or more "service contract" options. As far as speed of service, the lesser the contract, the lower the priority.
Is a license required for phone support?
No, a licenses will not be required for phone support. This will be one of first questions asked though. Reason being is that the demo version is not 100%, some features require a licenses to unlock.
Brett
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Brett - Whilst I don't necessarily agree with Drew, I can see that there will be Mach 3 users to whom a failure in their system will lead to serious financial loss to them, whereas I, as a hobby type user, can afford to wait for a result.
It seems to me you should offer several levels of support - speed apparently being of the essence, and, having purchased one of these levels of support, we can ring in and, perhaps, quote a code. Whem you are analysing the first calls, the code then gives you the order in which to answer.
It may be, on some days, the 5 cent option gets the 100 dollar service, because there are no other calls. On other days, everybody has to be strictly dealt with on the basis that, as Drew says, those who pay most get the fastest service.
To my mind, a premium payment initially - which gets you the "speed" code, but after that I think a standard charge for the actual time used for the problem. My problem might be just as important "to me" as Drews is to him. He pays a premium, therefore gets the first service, I dont, therefore have to take pot luck. After that everybody pays the same for your expertise.
This, I think, is fair and understandable to everybody.
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Thanks Jim,
The idea of the paid contracts and lower per minute calls is to try to help smooth things out. Also, the quanity discount comes into play. Might be best to offer a urgency code at first. Those willing to pay a premium on a call by call basis could decide how fast they needed help and choose to spend for speed or patiently wait. I suspect to start with we will only have a per call price and see how that goes and where if any refinements will be made. This will be a pretty big undertaking in the begining. We have no idea how many calls we will receive, what times will be bussiset, etc.
Brett
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I'm curious about something. Is this an official ArtSoft feature or a sideline business set up to run along side Artsoft, much like NFW that Brian set up?
The reason I ask? Well, it seems to me that all those that came before benefited from free support both phone and internet. Would it not seem reasonable to ask those to give of some of their time to do a little "giving" in return? Now don't get me wrong, as I understand there comes a time when the "giving" has to end because I am in a situation right now where I do support for a cam software company and I find that not only am I answering questions about the software I represent, but about cad, how to set up a machine, what feedrates to use for different materials, etc. But, with that said, I fully expect some free support calls when a piece of software is purchased, the one I represent, or Artsoft.
It was the phone call to Art way back in 2002 that allowed me to get my machine running again after a forced upgrade! Had it been policy to pay for that phone call after having just purchased the software, I would not have bought Artsoft and would have continued to use the piece of trash controller I was using!
So......what I'm saying is there needs to be some free telephone support included with the purchase of the software. It doesn't have to be much either, because there is so much free information available on both support sites.
Mike
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DITTO's
I'm with Mike.
RC
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I'd go with the first option - 1$ per minute in 5 minute increments. I think that a lot of guys do not want to commit to hundreds of dollars of support cost to keep their garage mill running....
If a business has 20 machines running Mach and they want guaranteed response time then a premium plan would probably make sense. One that guarantees a call back within an hour or so. But for those situations I think that most would already have an integrator involved or an OEM that can support the software and equipment.
Siemens has a reasonable support system for their products (keep in mind that most of their cables cost more than $159). If you call on a current product you will get a response back within 24 hours in most cases (free phone support in most cases for standard equipment and software). If you buy a premium plan for a yearly subscription fee, they call back within an hour. I don't know what their current premium plan cost is.
Siemens can afford to do this because their equipment is not inexpensive in most cases. I'm not sure you can buy anything from them regarding CNC for $159.00. Perhaps a manual??
On older products that are obsolete, they will tell you on the phone that the support for that device for one problem or situation is $225 (I think?) And they will call and email you until that problem is resolved. That is really a pretty good deal in most cases.
Regarding Allen Bradley - you cannot call their support hotline and get assistance unless you have a purchased support subscription. (Period) I have an OEM that buys Allen Bradley software and equipment and they get hung up on also. The only people who can provide free support for AB software and gear is their distributors and that is their option.
Parker Compumotor will provide free support - but the last ACR9000 4 axis motion controller I worked on cost about $4000, but the config software was a free download!!
I don't think it is reasonable to expect phone support for a $159 product. Yes it was great that Art provided phone support at times. At those times it probably made more sense to just get on the phone and speed the debugging process rather than drag it out over email. But if you are just looking for info and have time to get the reply, the mass knowledge of the forums is rather large. If a solution exists you will probably find out about it via the existing sources if you persevere. If yo don't have time - then a pay for service system makes more sense.
Dave
Cole Controls Inc.
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I am with Mike & RC...There should be a little support with purchase
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I don't think it is reasonable to expect phone support for a $159 product. Yes it was great that Art provided phone support at times. At those times it probably made more sense to just get on the phone and speed the debugging process rather than drag it out over email. But if you are just looking for info and have time to get the reply, the mass knowledge of the forums is rather large. If a solution exists you will probably find out about it via the existing sources if you persevere. If yo don't have time - then a pay for service system makes more sense.
This is my exact point Dave. Well received by you. The number of users that would rather pay a little bit to find an answer quick is growing. Some aren't interested in searching forums or chatting with others. All they want is to get their machine running and running as fast as possible. I think we need to be able to meet these needs.
I'm curious about something. Is this an official ArtSoft feature or a sideline business set up to run along side Artsoft, much like NFW that Brian set up?
Mike, Artsoft is supportive of this but it will not be Artsoft, at least not yet. This is just a test, to see how it would be received.
So......what I'm saying is there needs to be some free telephone support included with the purchase of the software. It doesn't have to be much either, because there is so much free information available on both support sites.
No way. I mean don't get me wrong, It has been very common practice for my self and other members to give free support by phone and remote assist but it is at those individuals leisure. As far as free support, I think this is as good as it will ever get. I can't see Artsoft spending any money to give one-on-one support for a product they have allready spent the money on to have the forums, the manuals, the tutors, etc. On top of this, it is a killer control at an insane low price. This isn't about providing more for the dollar. All the information anybody could want is allready avaliable for free. Nor is it a way to kill anyone or get rich quick. It is simply a way to provide a service that some truley want and for their business to be profitable need. It is in no way to lower the personal contributions of members like yourself or eliminate the truely nice gifts that members share with one another like free phone support. That to me is great alure of the forum. So just aren't interested in that, they only want a machine running because if it isn't, they aren't makeing money with it.
Thanks all for the feed back so far. These are very good points and I truley do appreciate the input.
Brett
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I say a dollar a minute in 5 minute increments. I must say to all those that may think these supporters are are making money from knowledge that was received for free. This is false. People like Brett and all other Mach experts that will be supporting this product have dedicated uncountable hours of their own time testing, reporting bugs, and helping hundreds of people through email, Skype phone and chat, and even phone support at times. I'm sure these guys have saved thousands of hours of support that made it possible for Art and his guys to crank out a great product. But I do think you should get a discount if you have to talk to Bret because of his southern accent. Just kidding Bret. Thanks to everyone willing to provide another form of support.
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;D Thanks Ryan, you have a valid point too. LOL
Brett
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I pay a "per-year" amount for help on a particular cad/cam program. I'm not in to heavy use yet, but I need that program and need it to work. I would be disappointed if I couldn't get help for a cnc problem because I didn't have the money yet to rate good help. I am buying a new cad/cam machine and system soon. I had hoped to use Mach as my operating system on all of my machines, but I'm wondering if I won't get a better deal with one of my non Mach machines/systems now. You are concerning me a bit. I may pay hundreds or thousands more on Mach if I have a problem. Greg Smith
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I think the intentions here are to provide another form of support. Not to make money. Some people see spending hours searching a website for answers as money spent. Some people see it as money saved. All the info needed is here on this site. If a machine is down more money would be lost if immediate support isn't available. I would rather buy a product that has this type of support. You have all the FREE videos, the FREE manuals, FREE forum posts, and immediate paid phone support. Not to mention all the extras like wizards, Brains, and Custom screensets. All for $159. I can't imagine how this product wouldn't be the best choice.
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Well put rcrabb.
Its obvious that there is heaps of free forum support and that the phone thing is a last resort, or for those who just want someone to sort things out for them.
Graphsmith, I think you always knew this but just want to stir up some sensationalism.
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Brett I'll make one more comment then hush! ;D I promise!
Had the fact that this was something that you or some other individual wanted to do as a sideline business, or fulltime business for that matter, been point out at the first post, my original response would have been different. I assumed (my fault) that this was an official Artsoft poll and as such I again assumed it was a new direction Artsoft was headed. Brian posted a reply over on the Yahoo group that finally address my question there. Had my email alerts been working, I would have seen your reply sooner. Sorry about that.
I'm gonna be brutally honest here. I felt this poll was precursor to larger changes coming and for me it indicated a drift from what Art told me personlly back in 2002 what his vision for the software was......"he was tired of the little guy being shafted".
Sorry if I offended anyone.
Mike
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Hey Brett,
I voted early on.
I don't mind paying for support if I hit a stump, it seems reasonable.
But....Only after the the software is TOTALLY locked down and debugged. And there is a COMPLETE manual that covers EVERYTHING about it...No secret or mysterious buttons or functions.. and everything functions as intended.
If the software is as perfect as possible, and the manual is written as such, along with this great forum it seems that there would be little need for phone support. Other than "the big hurry" as mentioned earlier or couldn't find it in the manual. (which wouldn't say much for the manual.)
As you all know, I'm new at this but there are some pretty big holes and gaps yet to be filled....For the most part, we all seem to be "Beta testers" at this point. (BTW..does that pay much ? Maybe a POLL ::) ) just kidding
If I make a call and it turns out to be a bug or something not available to me in a manual...I would not expect to be charged.
Thanks for all you do Brett,
RC
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Hello Brett,
My post was just the humble opinion of a novice greenhorn. No offense intended.
I'm curious as to what you think of it. (be gentle)
Thanks again,
RC
I voted for #2.
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No problem RC, I respect what your saying. Not upset in the least. I don't necessarily agree with all of your views, but who would? That is one of the great things about the forum, we are big enough to agree to disagree. The following quote is where we disagree.
But....Only after the the software is TOTALLY locked down and debugged. And there is a COMPLETE manual that covers EVERYTHING about it...No secret or mysterious buttons or functions.. and everything functions as intended.
Here is the way I view all of this, support and all in a nut shell. It would be easy for Art and Brian to have completed manuals and a virtually bug free program (Isay virtually, because bug free is a myth IMO no matter how much you pay) if it weren't for one thing, the gifts they give freely on a regular basis. When features are added, lots of times it introduces unforseen bugs, maybe in a bit of code 180 degrees from the feature added. Me for one would rather help eliminate the bugs so that everyone can benefit. If all one-on-one tech support was only avaliable after programs were 100% bug free, there would be no such thing.
If the software is as perfect as possible, and the manual is written as such, along with this great forum it seems that there would be little need for phone support. Other than "the big hurry" as mentioned earlier or couldn't find it in the manual. (which wouldn't say much for the manual.)
This is the whole point, some just flat out do not want to read a manual or look for answers. They would much rather spend a little money rather than time, pick up a phone, talk to a live person, and run their machine. If I'm looking at investing in a piece of equipment for the sole purpose of makeing money, I would much rather have the option of spending a little money to save a load of time. We need to be able to help this type of user as well as the retired or hobby guys. Different strokes for different folks. How many times have you seen a question posted that was clearly in the manual? I bet many times. Some just aren't interested in learning about Mach, at all. Their sole purpose for haveing it at all is to run parts.
Brett
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Thanks Brett, I stand somewhat enlightened.
"Virtually" was the word I was looking for.
I'm all for it....I just hope there will be adequate documentation for those of us that don't mind to look it up, or at least attempt to, before calling in.
And, if an otherwise "virtually" perfect program is running just fine, and a new "90,180 or 270 bug" feature is added, the user would have to foot the bill if in a hurry. Ring Ring $ $ . I guess there would be no option. As you said, this happens "lots of times".
Thanks Brett,
RC
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Support is completely separate from product development or design. Although a bug may be found during the support process, it's not the responsibility of the support guy for the bug. I've been in customer service and support for the last 3 years. 99% of the time a phone call is about something clearly documented. People making themself available for you to call should be compensated for there time. Remember, you choose the FREE Mach upgrade. You choose to add the FREE plugin. Alot of time an upgrade is posted and a bug is fixed. Sometimes a feature is added and new bug is introduced. Anyone calling phone support should pay 100% of the time for any reason. If the support guy chooses to cut you a break because he didn't know the answer, that's his or hers choice. If you choose not to pay for phone support, use the forum or email.
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VERY well put Ryan..I agree totally.
Like you said.."99% of the time it's something clearly documented", we would have the option.
Thanks,
RC
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Well, it's 8 months later can I get paid support, I NEED SOME HELP!
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Need to think hard about this as i see it from two different viewpoints, namely;
one is from a buisness point of view and the other is in the spirit of this hobby using the software.
I can invision a struggle in defining either one.
So here's a suggestion:
To provide a one on one line of comunication via telephone, electronic means, tutoring, or other means
in a way that minimizes the cost to a licensed user
so that
choice is provided at purchase time / over a span of tiime / or anytime
suplements the use of existing means to get personalized information
is taylored to each software
is taylored to level of expertise / and subject matter
addresses application outside of machining
provides for volunteerism
pricing structured over time
..........can add or modify to above..... concept must be clear
with the concept in place focus can be placed on each specifics and becomes much easier
RICH
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yes, I would
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Phone support ? ???
We have this wonderful forum and " HOOD " :D
What more could you ask for ?
Ed
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What more could you ask for ?
Ed
Well Brett would like some silicone enhanced beauties ;)
Hood
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I'll hold on making a vote on what would be liked/requested actually. Reason being (for sake of clarity only) that there are SOOO many systems, machines, potential operating systems that CAN be used with MACH.
In the end for my own using MACH as yet, if I have a question, I'll use the forums for it....no question you don't know the answer to is not a dumb question if you didn't atleast try to look it up (I'm sure there's a quote for similar, but I have belief you all get the point):P
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I need to talk to some one on the phone about issues with my Mach3 system. I am new to this and the forum site is great but its all about if some one sees your cry for help. I look at the time date stamps and there is a long time between questions posted and the time the first response is returned. I would appreciate it if we could all be willing to give each other phone support in some form of honor amongst common users. I am totally new to this stuff and have struggled the entire time with software issues or machine doing things that were unexpected. I would gladly answer a phone call to help some one if they needed it because its just the right thing to do. 304-670-7725 Jimmy Ohio, USA
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Hi Jimmy,
I encourage you to go ahead and post any problems you may be having in the General section of the forum.
Help might be along more quickly than you'd expect. I might even be able to help a bit with the most basic issues.
Regards,
Russ
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Thank you Russ I will do as you say and hope I can understand some of the answers I get to my questions. As I said I am new and have a tough time understanding some of the terminology used in answers at times. I greatly appreciate your advise and quick response.
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I've voted for the by the minute charge in 5 minute increments, whilst subscription is great for organisations needing regular help the reason most companies sell subscriptions seems to be to maintain a revenue stream from their customers.
Jimmy,
Most of the queries which get left unanswered are ones where little or none of the information required to begin to understand their setup is given, if you post a question and furnish as much information about your system as you can I'm sure you'll find someone will respond in kind by making an effort and responding.
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It is pretty LATE in the game to offer phone support don't you think ??? Being that MOST problems today are not Mach3 related but are plugin specific I think the help will be VERY limited in scope.
Just a thought, (;-) TP
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Hey Russ, just touching base with you to let you know that I am gathering the information that you wanted me to provide. For me it is a slow process due to my jobs work schedule. Very little time this week but I will try and get some info together and hopefully I will get some thing out here that you will be able to see that is able to assist me. I have looked for the book you recommended by Peter Schmitt " CNC Programming Handbook" and I will order it about mid week next week. I do want to get my own updated version of Mach3 and get a valid license because from what you told me, I don't trust the version and software that came with the machine. I am trying to contact the place where I bought my machine to get info on the motors and control hardware as you requested but have not heard back from him yet. Im working on it but as I said it would take some time to gather what you told me to. Just wanted to let you know that I have not forgotten and that again I am so appreciative of your help with my issues at this end. Thanks and have a great day.
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Another alternative: I have seen in some MS Excel / Access forums that first you post you question / problem and then someone will come and say for x amount they will solve your problem. Then you decide if you want / can spend the money to get the answer.
I think 1$ a minute in 5 minutes increments will be too expensive unless you are a business. By the time you explain your problem / details / type of cnc etc. 5 minutes will go pretty fast.
I use my cnc as a hobby, have limited experience and I hardly have any questions after the initial setup. I’m thinking a lot of people may be similar and I don’t see anyone investing in the Silver, Gold or Platinum support. On the other hand I don’t mind to pay $10 - $20 a year to have access to this wonderful forum.
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Pay for the forum...........not sure we we want to get like IMS!
Just post the darn problem, give basic information on the system your using, answer questions asked, then do what is suggested.
RICH