Machsupport Forum
G-Code, CAD, and CAM => LazyCam (Beta) => Topic started by: Overloaded on January 08, 2008, 09:14:39 AM
-
Hello,
I have managed to make a drawing in AutoCad Lt 98 and have attached it along with a cross section view.
I can export the DXF sucessfuly to LCam.
Could you explain the steps envolved and show examples getting this part through LCam to M3Turn?
I do not have the License yet and cannot get very far in LCam.
I'm pretty sure that LC cannot cut threads...that's OK. I can patch that in with a wizard or by hand.
Can LC face a part ? And work the ID ?
Please send me what you can.
Thanks,
RC
-
Hello,
I chopped the drawing up to leave this profile along with the center line.
Is this what LCam needs to create a tool path ? I cannot make it work.
Too complex ?
Thanks,
RC
-
Well............I may be on to something.
But this is as far as I can seem to get. Without a Pro License anyway.
I can generate a tool path in Pocket and Offset..but NOTHING in Turn.
The video tutorials are SUPER !
Let's have one for T U R N .
Thanks,
RC
-
I think it will have to be the same for both halves in turn, if it is turing a profile, it will be the same on one side of the part as the other. Not sure at all, just a stab.
Brett
-
The way I've done it is to produce a half profile - just the top or bottom half. Remember it's going to rotate around the Z axis. Lcam Needs to Know how big the stock is, so at the RHS, take a line out from the centre about 1mm say, then out to the stock radius.
Try this one.
Tony
-
Hey Tony,
That works GOOD.
What do you mean..."at the RHS"....what is that ? How do I draw the blue line ?
Thanks Tony,
RC
-
If you draw your half profile with the chuck at the left then the Right Hand Side is Z 0. Just extend the line on your dxf (In your CAD system) out to the radius of the stock as in mine. It just makes sure that the job will be faced in some way and tells Lcam what the stock size is. I don't really know all this for sure - there certainly isn't much information available- but this is what I've found by trial & error. Playing with the tool settings also improves the path once you've got it working.
I don't really know why the turn operations are being kept a secret, but that's what it seems. Everything about Mach seems to be done for mills & very little is ever said about lathe developments.
I get a little grouchy about it sometimes.
Tony
-
Brett, thanks for the "stab".
Every bit helps. I thought I'd tried everything. Stab marks everywhere. :D
HOLY SMOKES TONY,
That's EXACTLY what I was needing. I had NO CLUE what to do. I bought and read everything I could find.
You must do this for a living. I'm an old manual machinist. Heck, I don't even know the lingo for this NEW stuff.
You and me are in the same "Mushroom" boat. I was beginning to think I was alone. :(
With all of the NEW Mach stuff being developed, I suppose there's not many resources to devote to this OLD stuff.
I just wish that they hadn't left it this way, seemingly unfinished.
Maybe they will come back to it someday. ::)
Like you said, everybody must just be milling out Roadrunners and chopping up foam blocks. Not much turning.
Until then........can't thank YOU enough.
Thanks for taking the time Tony.
RC ;)
-
Thanks Tony,
That helped me as well. Now I can at least cut in the direction I want to.
I still have not managed to do multiple cuts to get to size. When I post my G code it cuts the profile perfect but only one cut.
Any idea how I tell it what the stock size is in diameter and how to cut it down in steps?
Anton
-
Anton,
the stock size is the outer end of the line I've mentioned. To get a correct size it must start from X 0. For turntest03.dxf, the bar is 32mm dia, hence the line is 16mm long. In Lcam, before cleanup, drag the zero datum to the X0, Z0 position of the drawing.
To get more cuts, set the step distance to say 1mm, margin at 5mm & finish at 0.1mm.
I must have a play with doing inside bores - I imagine it works the same way.
Don't be surprised if you don't get quite what you think - it's still beta software. I just wish we knew exactly what the rules are!
Tony
-
Hey Anton and Tony,
Here is a thread that I wish I had found sooner.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,2968.0.html
There is some good stuff in there as well.
See Ya,
RC
-
Yes I'd found that one. The profiles Art posted work fine, but I'm having trouble with the inner one if I modify it. I've been playing with it most of the morning and managed to get several 'unrecoverable errors' which is always great fun.
Tony
-
Hey Tony,
I was tinkering with it too.
Not on the machine....just the PC.
Are you actually cutting a inner profile on your machine ?
On the INNER example, it looks like one of the RAPIDS runs diagonally through the stock.
That would produce a horrendous wreck, wouldn't it ?
I suppose that would be edited manually in the posted code. ? ? ?
It looks like it's sort of doesn't realize that it's in the bore and has to z+ out before an X move. But I can't post code..no lic. yet and I'm not buying it until there is some evidence that it works.
I still wish they would free it up, either for a trial time perion or a line # limit like most others do.
Thanks Tony,
RC
-
Oh I've bought it, so that I could find out what the code does. It's cheap enough. As you say some of the paths can be rather dangerous so I haven't actually run any code live yet.
I haven't managed to create a new inside profile that works yet - even Art's example doesn't work if you change say, the right hand arc to a bevel.
I thought it was worth a gamble in case it really does become useful sometime.
Tony
-
GEEESH, I give up for now.
A simple profile, with the line drawn "Down to Centerline" to cut INSIDE.....1 chain...... flips to OUTSIDE when converted.
I don't get it.
I'm not the GAMBLER that you are Tony. However....I'd feel guilty if I didn't offer you at least a portion of what you've paid.
Thanks,
RC
BTW, ever heard of Code Shark ?
-
I haven't used Code Shark - its more of a G code generator & editor as far as I can see. The wizards in Mach will do a lot of coding for simple profiles & threading & it's easy enough to string a few operations together.
I'm quite happy (but a bit impatient) to invest in what may turn out to be capable of doing more complicated profiles. Fortunately I'm not relying on cnc to make a living. Any machining work that I take on is usually prototypes in very small batches and better tackled on the manual machines.
Tony
-
Hi, RC
Been tied up hear a couple day's
I've looked at it some, You need to make 2 sep. DXF files, 1 outer, 1 inner.
Made a Master dxf, Then an Outer & Inner dxf, See below.
The outer post's, But the first cut is too big, The inner doesn't post, I can get a profile though.
Load ether Inner or Outer, Clean, Optimize, Move the marker from bottom left to bottom right, then use the post at top,
I think it will give you the profile Without the Pro License, Should be close I hope.
LazyCam Turn still needs Work, Who nows when that will happen.
Thanks, Chip
-
HEY Chip, Great to hear from you.
I understand what you've got there. Sort of what I expected but was not sure.
Tony, Chip, and All.
I made a very interesting discovery. I think. ::)
When drawing a profile to be cut on the OUTSIDE, the horizontal line to the left can terminate without turning up or down. LCam just uses the end of that line and the extended line on the right that is added to the profile. Clean/Convert does the rest. (first pic)
To cut the INSIDE, the line at the LEFT of the profile needs to turn vertically and be drawn BEYOND the added line on the right side. Anything shorter will not post or will post on the wrong side. I even made the two lines stop at EXACTLY the same X value, (Y in CAD, to 0.0000) and it would not work.
Made the line on the LEFT .01 longer than the right one.....BINGO ! EVERY TIME.
PLEASE try it and see what you get.
Chip, on your INNER sample, try it and let me know what YOU get.
Thanks Guys,
RC
-
Right, I finally got somewhere! I've spent a long & frustrating evening playing with bores. (boring in fact)
If you take a look at the attached test file, the rules seem to be that :
1/ point A must be further out than point C.
2/point B sets the start of cutting on the inner bore.
3/the zero marker sets X0
Bevels seem ok but arcs don't seem to work - although I've run out of steam for tonight.
See what you think
Tony
-
HA, RC - just beat me to it!
Tony
-
WHAT A TEAM !!!!!!!!
LET'S CALL IT A DRAW ! ;)
They say "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."
We just OVERLUBED this one. :D
RC
-
If we're not careful we might end up knowing how to use this.
Tony
-
At this rate, by the time we get it all sorted........it will be obsolete.
RC
-
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the help. Things are getting better but still not getting it to do what I want.
I will fiddle a bit more to-night and see how I go.
Anton
-
Anton,
why not post a file with the sort of thing that you're trying to do? I don't mind fiddling with it for a while.
Tony
-
Well Guys.....I"M IN ! ;D
I've got the PRO License now.
I figured...what the heck. It's not perfect (yet), but it is a great learning tool for a greenhorn like me.
Thanks to ALL,
RC ;)
-
Thought you weren't a gambler, RC
Tony
-
Actually Tony, I'm not.
I believe this is a sure thing and will be ironed out eventually.
Plus....I don't mind giving the ArtSoft crew all of the support that I can.
I can't help much with my brain, but I can help a little with my wallet.
All in all, they have done a bang-up job.
As I said earlier, this is my intro to the world of digital machining... I know nothing else.
It has been a VERY enjoyable and rewarding experience for me so far.
I'd like to than you and everyone else for all of the help I've received.
Have a GOOD day Tony,
RC
-
Hi, RC
Now that your a PRO, I've got a couple hundred Questions, Just can't think of one Now.
Having Fun Are You, Chip
-
Having a BALL !
No pro here. YET anyway.
Fortunately, you don't have to be a pro to use pro equipment.
It's like getting a pilots license.....it's a license to learn.
Thanks Chip,
RC
-
Hi Tony,
I am into the pen making hobby. Most of most of my pens are turned by hand on a wood lathe but sometimes I require a few or more pens to be exactly the same.
All my turning is done on a mandrill and the stock is to the correct length when it goes onto the mandrill. All I need to do now is turn the profile.
I have attached a pic of the lathe with the stock on the mandrill. The stock is exactly 53mm long and that is the correct finished size.
I have also attached a profile done inn QCAD. LazyC converts the file OK and Mach3 cuts the profile. When I try to draw in the stock all goes ape. The stock diameter is 20mm.
Thanks for having a look.
Anton
-
Hi, Anton
What's the final major diameter of this pen part ?
Thanks, Chip
-
Hi Chip,
It depends on the type of pen but 12.75mm is about as big as I like to go.
Regards
Anton
-
Hi Anton,
try this to start with. All I've done is add a vertical line out to the 10mm stock radius ( 20mm dia). The code produced is not ideal in any way, but it would get a profile eventually.
Tony
-
Hi guys,
Been reading till I got a headache and still have questions. Maybe some one can cleae some of these details for me.
I have the lic. and have succeeded in creating code from SOME of my drawings and the ones posted here.
I have discovered that the numbers on tool description can cause failure to create paths. Some of those numbers are more self evident than others. Will someone speak to the definitions of these terms please? I've provided a capture showing the ones that confuse me, but others could be completely awash.
Thanks
-
Hi Tony,
thanks for your help last weekend. I can now see what you mean my adding a line to indicate stock size. With the help I even managed to create a half decent Gcode file. As you said, it is Beta software and it did a few funnies but much better than I ever had.
Cheers
Anton
-
Hi Anton,
pleased that it's started to work for you. I played around a bit more after I did that post & found that by choosing the correct tool parameters & deleting a few moves the code started to look quite reasonable.
Jhowelb,
the Margin setting seems to mean tool clearance. Increasing this will give a greater clearance during rapids etc. Back Angle I haven't played with yet, but Max Penetration can have a big effect on the results. I think it is the distance the tool can project into the work before fouling occurs. I find that setting it to something like 10 or 15 (mm) often gets rid of uncut sections.
hope this helps,
Tony
-
Thanks Tony,
Till Art decides to give us a manual we have to define his terms to our our purpose and your seem to fit as well or better than anything I can conjure up.
As I learn by tinkering I will return to contribute anything positive that I can find.
Again, Thanks!
-
Back angle, what ever it means, has a dramatic effect on tool path. A change from .5 degrees to 5.5 degrees had the illustrated effect.
Hope this m9ight help someone or at least stimulate discussion.
jb
-
Hmm,
I've just looked at my evaluation copy of Cutviewer & the tool setup in there has an angle marked 'BA'. For a Diamond tip standing on one of it's points and leaning to the right the angle between the right hand face and the horizontal is angle BA. Sorry I can't give a diagram at the moment.
Tony
-
Hi, Guy's
As far as i now, It set's a tool & tip angle relationship, In the Pic. below, The .5 BA, LC Skip's the part of the profile where the tool/tip would interfere with the profile.
The 5.5 BA, LC Cut's the complete profile where the tool/tip doesn't interfere with the profile.
At the moment I would just like to see a good Cut Profile, and let Me worry about the Tool/Tip BA Relationship.
Thanks, Chip
-
Chip
I agree with your interpretation of what's happening. I think that maybe the number is being applied incorrectly.Certainly according to the diagram I have from Cutviewer, its the other tool face, so an angle of 0 would have the tool rubbing on the OD. I'll have to see if I can find some ISO tooling definitions.
Tony
-
I do believe that is correct, Back Angle is the angle formed by the leading flat edge of the insert and a line drawn 90 degrees from the turned surface. That line is zero degrees and the turned surface is 90 degrees. The flats of the insert can't rub either the 90 or the zero face.
Now here is another question to postulate. The marked rapid movement will crash by traversing through the piece. How can I move this path without having to edit the gcode after it is produced?
-
Another one of the great mysteries of LazyCam. ;)
Tony
-
Hi, Tony
Like I stated, At the moment I would just like to see a good Cut Profile, and let Me worry about the Tool/Tip BA Relationship, Maybe make it a check box option.
Hi, Jhowelb A rapid now and then, Keeps you on your toes, HU !!, Find that Rapid X## Z##, Edit in a Z## move just before it.
I think theres a Tun-up for Turn Soon, I hope.
Thanks, Chip
-
YES Chip.....we are ALL hoping. ;)
After all, many of us are financing it's completion. ::)
Keep plugging along until then.
Regards,
RC
-
Unexpected rapids right thru solid object will certainly wake you up, if you on a live machine.
However, I have a habit I picked up in a machine shop after a machine chunked a 140 lb piece out of the machine,blowing the doors off and ricocheting about the shop making all in attendance duck and cover!
That is "dry runs"! No part in the chuck, Z zero set well back from the chuck and these days, with pc based cnc, no machine connected!
Removes the drama and most of the aches and pains.
Being an inveterate button pusher when I don't have directions to follow, I found a button labeled "optimize" that at least sometimes takes care of errant rapids.
-
I've never had an actual catastrophe. I catch it early on..... like you.
I've cut far more AIR with mine than I have material.
RC