Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: tnsmachines on January 02, 2008, 10:22:06 AM

Title: Tool Change
Post by: tnsmachines on January 02, 2008, 10:22:06 AM
Hello everyone,
I'm wondering if there is a way to make a tool change just by putting in "T#".  Right now, the way I make a tool change I have to put in "T1 M6 G43 H1"  That whole string could be done with just T1. Every other control I've used just needs T1 and it pulls in the offset and diameter for that tool.  Is there a way to make this possible with mach 3?  Thanks!
-Leith
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2008, 10:44:59 AM
Leith,
If you haven't done so, download the manual below.

http://www.machsupport.com/documentation/Using3Turn.pdf

Then check out the chapter illustrated. It should answer all of your questions.
If not, there's plenty of help here.
RC
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: jimpinder on January 02, 2008, 10:54:40 AM
As far as I understand it, lathes use T0101 which is the tool number and the offset table all in one e.g. you could have T0402 - tool 4 with offset 2.

Mach 3 Mill uses M6 T4.  Again as far as I know all the offsets are included in the tool table for each tool, so I cannot see that you need to include the length offset seperately. I though G43 applied throughout the program, so you could turn it on at the beginning and turn it off at the end.

Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: tnsmachines on January 02, 2008, 10:57:21 AM
The problem is when I put in "T1" nothing changes.  Unless...  I have to put in M6 after T1 in order to get the software to recognize the toolchange.  Also, it won't pull in a height offset unless I use
"G43 H#."  It should be able to just use the T1 to pull in the diameter/height offsets for that tool number.  It should also show that there was a tool change (show new tool number in the box) when I just put in T#.  Thanks again.
-Leith
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: tnsmachines on January 02, 2008, 11:03:30 AM
So you are saying G43 is modal? I input it at the beginning of every program? That is simple enough and I will try it. The only problem is I have been required to make an "H#" comment for the program to recognize the height change. I cannot get the program to pull in the "H" for that tool without stating an "H#". Other programs I am using pull in all of the information from the Tool Table when I simply type "T#" into the program. Is Mach 3 different?
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2008, 11:04:27 AM
Do you have it set-up in the tool table ?


Ooops, your post came in first....disregard.
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: tnsmachines on January 02, 2008, 11:04:57 AM
Yes
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: Overloaded on January 02, 2008, 11:16:26 AM
I'm learning along with you.
Thanks,
RC
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: jimpinder on January 02, 2008, 09:02:22 PM
Make sure your tool offset is ticked as persistant in General Config.

I must admit to having some trouble with this as well - and the problem seemd to be that Mach 3 was ignoring the T** command. I put it in as a command, but the tool DRO did not change.

In Mach 3 Mill you must put in M6 T** - and make sure the ignore tool change box is not ticked in Config. I have mine as stop and wait for restart - so that I can check that the tool change has taken place ( and Mach 3 has registered it) I have a quick change tool post, so I know the tool is right, but it must be in the tool DRO or you don't get the offsets.
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: tnsmachines on January 03, 2008, 02:52:29 PM
Ok, I've been looking around the forums and have noticed instances where people have had similar issues.  I'm starting to think this is a problem of syntax and/or ignorance.  Last night I played with the machine and found that I have to use G43 H# in order to pull in the height offset.  I tried putting the g43 at the beginning of the program and still couldn't get it to pull in the height offset.  G43 is NOT modal.  At least not the way I understand it to be.  I have to use the G43 every time I want to change tools.  Sure, it stays on, but I have to use it again when I make another tool change.  Also, one thing I don't understand is when I use the M6 T#, what does it do?  Does it actually pull in the diameter offset for that tool or does it only make the program display the tool number in the window? 

What I think the software should do...

When I put in T1, it should pull in both the diameter and height offset for tool 1.  I don't understand why I have to put in all this other stuff when using a simple T# command could do all of it in one go.  Why can't the software do this?  Can I make a macro or change something to make this possible?  I don't know much about coding but I am learning.  Any help will be appreciated.  Thanks! 
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: Graham Waterworth on January 03, 2008, 04:45:55 PM
I do not see the big problem in entering 3 words 'G43 T1 M6' for each tool used, this call sets the height offset and loads the diameter offset ready for use by G41 or G42.

One of the reasons Mach works this way is so that tools can be pre-selected by calling T2, then the tool changer is ready for changing by the M6 command

Graham.
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: tnsmachines on January 03, 2008, 05:21:15 PM
Graham,
Your right about the M6 command.  I don't have a tool changer on this machine, so the M6 command doesn't really apply to me.  I'm used to using a simple T1 command to change a tool.  I still don't understand why I have to use the G43 command every time I make a toolchange.  Is that how it was designed?  One thing that was throwing me off is the fact that you can make a height offset that doesn't match the tool.  For example, T1 M6 G43 H2 calls for tool 1 but uses the tool 2 height offset.  What I didn't realize was that G43 also would recognize the "T1" word and pull in both offsets and didn't have to have the "H1" word.  I'm happy with this, now.  Although, I don't understand why you would ever want to make a tool with two different offsets.  And is there a way that you can just use G43 at the beginning of the program and make it so that you don't have to have it on every tool change line?  I don't mind doing this, as long as I know that I have to.  But every other machine I've used simply uses the T# word to do all of it.  Thanks for your help!
-Leith
Title: Re: Tool Change (BREAKING TOOLS)
Post by: Erichtg on January 20, 2008, 07:41:03 PM
I found this topic investigating some unexpected G43 behavior after "upgrading" from a previous version of Mach3

It appears that "T# M6 G43 T#" does not change the DRO offset as I expect it to.
(I expect to change the DRO to reflect the height offset value without moving the machine)

G43 SOMETIMES moves the machine Z axis. (I've broken several tools and ruined parts because of this.) 
In this "sometimes" mode repeatedly issuing G43 (tested with the MDI) repeatedly moves the machine Z axis.
Sometimes appears to be:
   if current tool <> tool specified in "T# M6 G43 H#"
       Then machine does not move (offset changed in DRO)
   if Current tool = tool specified in "T# M6 G43 H#"
       Then Machine moves Z axis by offset of H

?!?!?
 
My post always issues the tool change like this:
T# M6 (apparently does nothing except change the Tool # display)
G43 H# (Tool height offset is applied to DRO (or the Machine Z axis is moved) at this command)

I'd love to eliminate this G43 command from my post.

But why wasn't this ever a problem before in Mach2 or the previous version of Mach3 (Current 3.00)
The Z axis never moved when a tool offset was issued. See below from UsingMach3Mill
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: panaceabeachbum on January 20, 2008, 08:23:41 PM
I dont put the g43 in the tool change line on any of my machines , just T0101 m6 for the lathe , t1 m6 for the mill and dont have any problem with offsets. M6 is the std callout for tool change wether its being done manualy or with a changer, not familiar with a cnc machine that does tool changes with just the T* command and no M6 . My Milltronics machining center sees an M6 with no T callout afterwards and just stops the spindle, and raises the head  waiting on a manual tool change. If am running a file with T1 and , 1/4" mill , and then call out T2 (3/8" mill) without the M6 behind it the machine will not stop for a tool change and will continue to run the file with the 1/4" mill
Title: Re: Tool Change
Post by: Erichtg on January 20, 2008, 08:32:06 PM
I'm going to create a new thread for my mystery moving z axis.