Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: cliveastro on December 22, 2007, 08:09:51 AM
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Despite the help from KTM and Arturo Duncan at CPC4PC I am unable to get the motors turning in my system.
I am now exceedingly frustrated.
Here is a list of what I have tried:-
1. 2 different computers.
2. A dedicated PSU and a Bench PSU
3. Both sets of drivers in MACH3
4. 3 stepper drivers and 3 motors
5. Changed the ports and motor tuning countless times
6. Measured the output of the Breakout board with an oscilloscope
7. Used a signal generator on the breaout board with an oscilloscope
8. Checked the wiring countless times
9. Put the corrrect pulses in for the motor.
10. Checked the pins on the lpt1 cable
11. I have the setup videos about 5 times.
Does anyone have the optimisation files please.
Whats even more frustrating is that my modified mill is ready to move.
Anyone help a desperate, dispirited,downhearted and grumpy old man?
Clive
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Clive,
I have read back through your posts,have you definatly got a pulse signal going from your
breakout board to your driver when you Jog? I usually just attach a small speaker/earphone to the step wire and it
will buzz at differant pitches for differant feed rates,and should be clear and un stutterng.
If you have the buzz and the enable system is disconnected then the motors should turn.
Do the motors do do anything? I know you say they are energised which is as it should be at stand still with the
enable system disconnected.Do the motors make any noise when commanded to move?
I have had no expieriance with the cpc4pc system but they are all very similar.
Whereabouts are you prehaps one of our local forum members can visit you to help.
Tony
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What connections are available to your driver? There are usually step, direction & common also possibly inhibit. Then the supply volts, say +24v & 0v. There will also be 4 motor outputs.
On some drives the inhibit may be left unconnected but on others it may need definitely pulling one way or another.
TonyP
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Thanks for the responses.
I am definately getting something as I saw it on the oscilloscope, there is a pulse train for the step signal and the level changes for the direction.
The connections that are available are
1. VCC which is 24V
2. Ground
3. 2 x 5V
4. 4 x motor connections
These are wired in basic form exactly as the wiring diagram and no inhibits.
I have just tried it with no breakout board and it still doesnt work and also swapped psu.
I am now suspecting the parallel port and have tried to buy one but failed as the local PC superstore doesnt have things like this any more.
For information I am in East Sussex.
Clive
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Clive,
When you say 2x 5v do you mean that these are the step & direction? If you've seen the step & direction pulses swinging between 0 & +5v, I don't think you've got a problem with the port or the breakout board. What driver are you using?
Dabs have some parallel cards if you really need one. Maplin also do one.
I'm just north of Reading. If you want to ring me please do. ( 0118 972 2324 )
Tony
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Hi Tony
The 5 volts are different to the step and direction if you look at the keling website for the wiring diagram of the kl 4030 driver the curcuit diagram that I am using is there.
Yes I had found the maplin one its £30. CCL have them for <£10.
I will try to borrow one in the morning.
I am in danger from she who must be obeyed so I think its time to pack it in for the day.
Regards
Clive
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Hmm,
Just looking at the diagram on the site. I don't see any common connection between the Vcc - and the 5v -. ie There is no common ground for the power & signal. If its wired exactly like that I wouldn't expect it to work.
Tony
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http://www.kelinginc.net/KL-4030Wiring.pdf
Just curious....where are you getting the 5v for the machine side of the BOB ?
I used the USB.
I think I see what you mean about the ground Tony.
Another thread..from John at Keling.
Reset signal is same as Enable signal in some other driver. This signal is used for enabling/disabling the driver. High level for enabling the driver and low level for disabling the driver. Usually left unconnected(enabled).
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I built a 5v and 12v power supply which runs off of the 24v 8.3A psu.
The 5v for the breakout and drivers and the 12v for the charge pump.
I asked about the ground somewhere else but I cant remember where.
I have spent months making the parts turning down ballscrews and modifying my mill.
I bought what is effectively a kit for the electronics expecting it to work first time.
Clive
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I may have spoken too soon about the common 0v connection. Although data sheet doesn't say it, the driver input may consist of the input to an opto- isolator with an internal resistor connected to the +5v input. That would allow the breakout board to pull current though it via it's own 0v. So my previous comment may be a 'red herring'.
A test you could try would be to switch the drive to it's coarsest setting of 1 step per pulse. Disconnect the step input from the bob. Connect the step input to 0v (the 5v supply 0v) via a push button ( or just dab the wire on & off). You should be able to manually pulse the motor one step at a time.
This is about as basic a test you can do.
Tony
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Hi all.
cliveastro, this may be a little off your particular problem, but I fought my setup for awhile and found that despite the wiring diagram on the breakout board (CPC4PC) I had to wire it up with two 5V sources. One from the computers USB port, and another external one (old computer power supply). If you look at the web site downloads it will show two differant ways to wire the breakout board. The reason you can not use the USB port for both is the amount of current that the USB port can supply. Does any of the led's on the breakout board turn on / off when you move a axis one directions then the other?? This would tell you that the signal is getting to the breakout board. Are you using Gecko drives??
Hope this helps!
olf20
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When you checked your step pulse with the 'scope, did you do it with the drive connected?
Tony
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I will give that a go.
I did put my meter across the 5v and the 24v ground and got a 5v reading so there is one.
Clive
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Sorry missed a couple of comments.
Regarding the Led on the breakout board there is only one to show that the 5v is on, and it does not go off.
My 5v psu will give 1 amp which should be loads.
Regarding the scope I tried it both ways and I got a pulse but not being very good with a scope I dont know what the voltage was.
Clive
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cliveastro, what breakout board do you have, and what drive controllers?
Thanks olf20
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Success, motor now turning.
I sent John at Keling an email and he sent me a mach3 set up guide and I noticed that the setting in the motor setup had step and direction enabled, the text explained why.
So I tried it and Bingo it worked.
Previously I had watched the mach3 video setup guide and I either missed it or the relevance to it.
Many thanks to everyone for the their help and suggestions.
Kind Regards
Clive
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Hi Clive
Congratulations
I am happy that your machine is sorted. I missed that one in your XML. -Slap forehead - In motor tuning the step pulse and direction pulse time were set to zero.
The answer is always simple when you know what it is.
KTM
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That's great,
it's always something small, tucked away in a corner, that stops things. Now you can really have some fun!
Tony
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Thanks to everyone.
I wired it up with my charge pump, but that doesnt work, so my decision is wire charge pump out, to keep it simple.
This way I can get things going.
What are the general thoughts on charge pumps? Are they really necessary?
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Hello Clive,
So glad you got it going.
I elected not to go with a charge pump. I'm the only operator/user. If I built one for anyone else, or had another operator, I would definitely use a pump as well as doors with switches or maybe a light curtain. (Liability)
I use a separate on/off switch for everything except the PC and monitor. I turn on the PC and monitor, let the PC boot up completely, (I think this is where the pump is most necessary), then power up the power supply and driver box.
Never had more than 1 "click" when motors power up and hold.
Please keep us posted on your progress.
Let's see a post with a photo of your rig in the "Show n' Tell" forum.
Take care,
RC
Oh yeah...one more thing.
Mach is not controlling my spindle. If it were, I would use the pump. Changing parts manually in a lathe, or cutters in a mill/drill , is inviting disaster if the PC and Mach have control of the spindle motor.
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I am a bit late on this post - glad to see the answer was simple in the end.
And that is the answer - KEEP IT SIMPLE.
Each axis requires three wires from the computer - a step, a direction and the 0v signal ground - otherwise none of whats follows will see the signal. These need to be identified on the ports and pins and enabled as you now know.
The only problem is you only have 25 wires on the port and 7 of these are 0v signal ground. There are only three sets of usable pins - one with 8 outputs (2 - 9) one with another four outputs ( 1,14,16,17) and one with 5 inputs (10 - 13, 15). If you clutter up your board with nice looking, but useless attachments, you will run out of pins.
If you have four axis (you will probably certainly have three - and at some time want a fourth) that takes care of the 8 outputs in the first set. If you then want M3 M4 and coolant that takes three out of four of the second set and if you want 4 limit switches (with home switches combined) that takes four out of the five inputs - which leaves you one input and one output spare. I have had to compromise because I have a spindle index input, so I only have two limit/home switches. ( I have two spare inputs for something I might find I need)
You do not need charge pumps, and other fancy computerised switches to isolate your axies - this can be more easily done by having an on/off switch on your driver card box - I have one main on/off and then switches to isolate each individual axis ( all illuminated) - and I do not switch the cards on until the computer has run up to speed (as per the instructional video).
About the only other switch I might consider fitting (connected to the computer) is an ALL STOP SWITCH which I shall mount on the machine. Although the computer is next to the lathe, a big push button is easier to hit than a mouse and icon.
The only trouble fitting all these extras ( and I don't decry them at all, I think Mach 3 is the best program around) they all need maintenance - and if something goes wrong in the (I don't know what happened, but everything stopped) category, it is just one more thing to check and test.
If you step over the number of wires on the standard port, then you are into expensive add ons, which, quite frankly I don't consider necessary, and are something to add on when you are up and running and turning out some useful product.
Keep it simple and have fun !!!
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I use a charge pump on the lathe. I've had the occasional software freeze & I like to know that everything has stopped. My system uses the pump as part of the interlock system and has a bi-colour LED that is red for off & green for on.
With a spindle under PC control I wouldn't like to be without it.
Is your pump a separate unit?
Tony
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My Charge pump is seperate so it is very easy to isolate.
But I do have an Estop in the form of a Big Red Button.
I am sure my challenges are still to come i.e. getting from solids to cutting metal.
Fortunately I am an old hand at Autocad (20+ years) and I can use Solidworks (mostly) I havent addressed the cam part yet so I am sure some computer wizardry will confound me.
So on to round 3.
Clive