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Third party software and hardware support forums. => Newfangled Solutions Mach3 Wizards => Topic started by: ynneb on November 21, 2005, 07:31:30 PM

Title: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on November 21, 2005, 07:31:30 PM
There is some talk in another forum about making a coil winding machine, for winding transformers, guitar pickups etc.
I was wondering if the was any wizards in Mach that does this?

How hard would it be to make a wizard that takes ito account.....
Wire thickness
Spool width
Spool thickness
Adjustments for each layer of wire ( as the spool gets thicker)
Etc

Has any one done this?

I think this could be a really handy feature in addition to Mill, Turn, you could also have Wind.

Dumb Idea?

Please forgive me if this has already been discussed.

Regards Benny
Mach Support www.machsupport.com

Original forum discussion http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14971

Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: chad on November 22, 2005, 03:25:35 PM
Benny that pic looks great.

I was thinking about winding coils also, I need to wind some solenoids. It seems to me that a wizzard for lathe would make more sence. If you think about it laying down coils is a lot like cutting threads.
If you added a spool diameter and had a lookup table you could also calculate coil resistance based on the wire diameter and calculate how many feet were going to be used. You would also need to know the bare copper wire OD and the wire with the insulator OD.  for example I looked up a 24 gauge wire..

BARE WIRE SPECIFICATIONS:

DCR based on resistivity of 10.371 ohms per circular mil foot @ 20°C ( 100%IACS Conductivity)
AWG    Bare Min.    Bare Nom.    Bare Max.    DCR Min.    DCR Nom.    DCR Max.    cmils    feet per lb
24       0.0199       0.0201        0.0203        25.17         25.67            26.19              404     818

 INSULATED WIRE SPECIFICATION:
Values listed below are derived from the NEMA MW1000-1997 Standard or MWS Wire Industries internal inspection criteria
Insulation Build    Insulated Min.    Insulated Nom.    Insulated Max.    Film Increase Min.    Feet per LB.
Single                       0.0209         0.0213           0.0217             0.0010               804.5
Heavy                      0.0218        0.0223          0.0227            0.0019                      790.5
Triple                        0.0228          0.0233            0.0238              0.0029                776.5
Quad                      0.0234        0.0242          0.0250              .0035               762.5

As you can see the diff between the single insulated and the quad is 42 feet per LB, or 435.582 ohms.
It would be great to calculate impedance, however this becomes difficult because of the difference of the bobbin and the frequency.

Any how just some food for thought..

Chad


Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: mikezcnc on November 28, 2005, 03:23:02 PM
http://www.circuitcellar.com/renesas/winners/3339.htm that is one place but no help. Few months ago was an issue of Nuts and Volts that had a project. I have that issue but finding it is a problem right now.  Mike
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Strat on January 15, 2006, 09:46:44 PM
howdy all just found this site   but also on the zone     one thought on this because i wind pickups also   is on the movement   if it works to where it starts at 0 then just steps the size of the wire to the end of the bobbin then back  to bobbin   theres a prob you will get more capacitance   and thats where the probs come in    for a pick up you need more of a variable movement  i guess what i'm trying to get at is a  random time for movement and random amount of movement on the winder i built it origanally had a cam for the movement and it gave about the same sound each time    to get different sounding pups i had to start guiding the wire by hand which did give me different sound  i guess if there was a  way for the cnc to let you teach the movement would be nice too  as you could  lay different pup styles and save the gcode for it           
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Strat on January 16, 2006, 09:46:39 AM
i don't have a cnc winder setup at this time but i do have the things {motors ,drivers )   that i could build another one with  if your game on the code i would be more then happy for testing  and setting up a cnc winder   i guess the big things (for me ) would be bobbin size or fill area  # of turns   and the ability to "learn" the movement  or the option of random movement
another thing that would be nice is if i could enter the wire varibles  ohms per foot  wire size  and enter the amount of resistance i would like to wind and have it calculate the  # of turns  theres a guy on another site i hang on that wrote a calc/counter program but to be able to do it in cnc would be really really nice
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Strat on January 16, 2006, 08:52:23 PM
well heres the basic idea i will use for the machine will be gone for the next few days i have family going in for surgery but once thru the worst of it and back home i will get this built     the only other thing i need to add is a tensioner for the wire  so once back i will update     one thing that willl be real nice is controlling the speed of the wind with the puter : )   thanks much guys
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: washcomp on January 18, 2006, 01:05:29 PM
Might want to think about this in the context of scale.  As an example, think of someone who wraps fishing rod guides with thread as opposed to someone wraping large electrical cables or firehose on a capstan.

Just a thought.  The more flexible the better.

Regards,
Jeff

Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Strat on January 18, 2006, 02:11:26 PM
just stopin in  before i roll out but looks good so far benny   as far as the random step   maybe a time(# of turns)  or distance variable input to build  the randomness off or acess to both   set a base and then it builds the randomness on it   
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Strat on January 22, 2006, 09:20:44 PM
anyone who is interested this program is for calcin a guitar pick up    you enter the width   the core depth the core width and the wire guage your using and it will calc the # of turns and resistance to expect also has a counter in it  that you wire to your serial  port
http://pickups.myonlinesite.com/programs.php   (oops forgot to put the addy in )
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: turmite on January 25, 2006, 12:44:19 AM
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :'( :'( :'( Oh nooooooo. Brian do you know what you're creating here? ;D

Go for it Benny. As sharp as you are on screen it only makes sense for you to know how to wizard!

Mike


Thanks Strat, I went and downloaded it. Not that pickups are my thing.
Please dont think this thread has halted. You will be horified to know that Brian has privately suggested that he wants me to do the programming with him as my tutor. I guess I will be starting soon. :(
Title: was: Coil winding machine - and a filament winding maybe ?
Post by: pavel59 on February 04, 2006, 06:03:05 PM
Hi to all, this project sounds quite interesting to me, but I would also get your opinion about the feasibility of a similar machine to be used for winding wet reinforcing fibers (technical name of technology is "filament winding") around a mandrel.
The main difference between the coil winding and the filament winding is that the fibers should follow an angled pattern (crossing at certain degrees) instead of being parallel to each other.

Thanks

Paolo
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Whirlybird on April 12, 2006, 09:17:19 PM
Hi all you coil winders out there
Ihope this project does not stall before it gets off the ground.
Wishing to automate the winding of coils for special alternators for use in small scale wind turbines.
In these coils it is important to keep the actual thickness of the coil to a minimum and to acheive this the change of direction has to be acurate so as not to have uneven layers.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Strat on April 13, 2006, 09:52:27 PM
as far as the winder mine is built just a matter of swapping steppers over but had to keep the standard motors on for now  to much to do and never enough time ::)  anyways lookin forward to this
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ballendo on April 15, 2006, 01:58:53 AM
Benny,

I know you've detailed this before, and forvgive me for asking here if this is not the place...

What software tools are you using to create the screens you post?

What specific software was used to create this coil winder screen?

Thank you in advance,

Ballendo

So far the only variables I can think of are as attached.
Can anyone think of any others.

We could use a single BMP with invisible buttons and inputs. This would make it easy to do.

Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on May 08, 2006, 11:30:09 PM
Ok I'll bite, I got a machine built and will have it next week at the cnc-workshop. I just sent the funds to buy the program today.  I'll post pictures of the machine tomorrow.  It uses 2 sure step steppers and a chunk of hsk rail and ballscrew I had lying arround.

I'm one of those guys that is better at hardware than software, so I realy apreshiate your offer for the coding. What format would you like the screen graphics in? Brian will you be at the workshop?
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Brian Barker on May 09, 2006, 06:44:59 AM
Sounds good to me we can code it up at te workshop :) Benny could you please send me the screen set?
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on May 09, 2006, 09:32:10 AM
Brian, everything is placed on the set, and I have set every thing that I know how to do. The rest is up to you :)

I have deliberatly left the slider in there even though its a no goer, in the hope that lots of people will make posts saying that it does not work, and Art will get the hint that he should initiate it :)

If you get it going at the show, I want someone to make a video of it winding. Please :)
In fact I want lost of video footage of all the activity there. I will then make a download section dedicated to the show.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on May 10, 2006, 10:07:21 AM
here are the pics I promised
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on May 10, 2006, 07:55:25 PM
Supurb job, Patanke. This will be a show stopper at the conference.

This is eactly how I was hoping this project to progress. A good team effort happening here.

Dont forget to make a tensioning system too. Probably two bits of thick felt mounted in an adjustable clamp would do the trick.

Gee I wish I could come to the show and see it.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Whirlybird on May 10, 2006, 11:11:31 PM
wow
Thats as nice a bit of engineering as i have seen in a while Good work
could you imagine something like that but with a six meter long bed on it.
Because I can
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on May 11, 2006, 02:40:13 AM
You may need to have an adjustable arm so that the wire can be supported as close to the spool as possible.
I did an apprenticeship as an armature winder as a kid ( Dud Trade) and I know how the wire can run away if not held close to the spool. Anyway I guess you we can edit this as we go. I think I might follow closely your design but out of MDF for the proto.

Whirleybird, a 6 M one sounds exciting. I am expecting only part of this screen to work at first. Just a plain flat coild wind. I am starting to wonder how you would go about making G-code for irregular shpes like props. I guess 1 turn of an irregular shape is the same as one turn of a regular shape item.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on May 11, 2006, 09:37:30 AM
I know I will have to do something with the tensioner, I made it keyed with a single bolt so that it could be adjusted in height, or easily replaced as the design evolves.

For the guide tensioner I envision 4 bearings beings pressed against the wire with a nylon screw being driven into one or 2 bearing(s) to act as the guide and tensioner.

I try to keep things ea sealy modified, as changes are inevitable.

Whirlybird, a six meter long bed, that would be a nice filament winder, or one could be used to make one heck of a Tesla coil. Life sized lightning anyone?

Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on May 11, 2006, 02:51:26 PM
A filament winder would be fun and an easy next step, I'm just concerned about trying to figure out the propper paths for the filament. There is more to it than just laying one fiber right next to the other, the direction and orientation of the fiber contributes significantly to the properties of the part.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Whirlybird on May 11, 2006, 03:21:14 PM
that is true. they are often wound with many filaments at once and the filaments are aplied in a diagonal pattern on the mandrel the guide head shifts position at the end of th path ready for the return trip
There is always an ofcut at each end due to the thickening efect of the direction change.Flat woven tape can be wound in this manner also
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on May 21, 2006, 10:53:54 AM
The cnc workshop was great! Brian and Art were a pleasure to meet and get to know. Both of the were wonderfull, willing to sit for hours and aswer everyones questions helping all the crowd that followed them everywhere. Brian is great not only did he get the level wind coded, but he tought "Sarge" and I how to do it at the same time.  This "give a man a fishing rod and not a fish" philosophy worked great, as I have already started changing the code to make it wind better with thicker materials. I needed to stop the rotory axis after each pass so that it wouldn't over run the spool  side as the X axis was decellerating and reacellerating.

I also changed it from running in rapid to feed mode, making the Rpm box work as the feed input. I realize that it is not rpm but it acts to allow choosing a speed. I'll work on getting the ball and random wind to work, But have patience as this is learning project for me. 

Brian and I talked about two different types of random wind. One would make a random number of coils over a random distance untill the spool width if filled, the other would merely give a random number of coils over the entire spool width.

Right now I'm modifying the winding machine to bring the guide closer to the spool which should help provide better control of the material being wound. When this is done I'll get back to working on the code.

On the fly rod filament winder front, there was a gentlemen at the workshop who was importing linear rail in legnths up to 40 ft long at the cost of about 100$ per meter I have added the fly rod filament winder to the project list, there are a few others infront though.


Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jemmyell on May 29, 2006, 10:05:22 AM
Hello,

This looks great!  I just threw away the sewing machine guts I have had lying around to make a manual pickup winder for my electric guitars.  All of my CNC tables are routers for woodworking / inlay purposes, I don't cut metal at all on them.  Would you be interested in selling kits of all the mechanical parts?  I would love to build a CNC pickup winder.

-James
Title: Need winder built.....
Post by: Possum on July 02, 2006, 01:48:05 AM
Hi everyone: I registered just to get in on this discussion. I'm a pickup maker and faced with the dilemma of not being able to put out enough product and need to automate my coil winding. I have two Adams Maxwell winders but can't afford the $4500 traverse CNC wire guide component, and its somewhat a simple piece of machinery. So I am looking hard to figure out a way to automatically wind the kinds of coils that wind that will reproduce my own personal tone signature. Right now there is no commercial programmable dedicated pickup winder anywhere in the world. Probably because no two pickup makers at the boutique level wind the same way. Larger production pickup manufacturers use more sophisticated CNC winders and either do alot of programming to make them turn out a half decent sounding pickup, but mostly they don't, they wind thousands of coils in a day and use perfect layer winding, side by side wire lay down. Sure these coils sound ok, but compared to a hand guided coil its instantly recognizeable that factory made coils are one dimensional sounding, no soul....

I am interested in having a winder built to my specs, it doesn't have to be super fancy and I don't have a ton of money to spend on it, if any of you think you can pull this off probably best to talk to me privately via email. I think this Mach3 software could be rigged to do what I want. I am not technical enough to pull this off by myself and its obvious some of you are and I've been looking for someone to help me do what I need for about 6 months at least.

I'll make some general comments about a general pickup winder though without giving away my personal winding secrets too much. The prototype I see in the pix above uses a too small motor as a drive for winding the wire onto the bobbin, don't forget that the wire is wound under tension, and sometimes at high speed winds this will choke a small motor. My Adams Maxwell winders have substantial four speed range motors that are like an industrial size sewing machine motor. Wire tension is one of the secrets of good pickups. Also on my own winder I use rubber band drive belts, Leo Fender used these, I always thought it was because he was a miser cheap guy, but not so, can't tell you more than that. I wouldn't personally want a drive motor to be a step motor and Adams Maxwell winders don't use these motors either. They are linked to the traverse system via a sensor that counts revolutions and speed, for what I want, that is unimportant, as my winder motors have counter shut offs, thats about all I need.

Also this idea of "random" winds is off the mark. Hand wound pickups aren't really random winds in the sense of one pass of the wire guide. No hand winder is going to make one pass and slow down, speed up and maybe backtrace a couple winds, I don't see a random wind like that working very well in guitar pickups. Pickups are random in the SPEED each layer is wound to the end of the coil, its impossible by hand to wind each layer at the same traverse speed and you don't want this anyway. So by hand you move your hand at pretty steady speed across the coil and then the return wind isn't the same speed so the layers have the wires more crossed over eachother, thats whats random about handwinding. In commercial winding the speed the traverse wire guide moves is called the "pitch." You can set these machines to wrap each wire wrap down next to the last wire, or use a different pitch to wind less turns for the length of the bobbin. Using various pitches gives you different tonal qualities and has to do with capacitance and inductace. Even if you randomized the pitch for each layer, not sure how that would work, hand guided winding after all is CONSCIOUS control , not just some randomness. So there's some reasons why randomness in a program might produce unpredictable results. In a commercial venture like mine I need REPEATABLE results. Sure if you're just a hobbyist winding coils the random thing could be fun, but as a pickup maker I want my coils to be what I designed them to sound like as much as possible, each one.

the setup I use now was told to me by a guy on a forum and I improved on it some and it works real well. Basically a hobby R/C wireless controller hand held pistol grip thing, a receiver and cheapo servo that rotates in precise steps. This way I can wind my coils and vary how I am holding the knob I rotate left and rigth to guide the wire. the killer in handguided winding is tendonitits, this is a serious and debilitating problem if you have to do it everyday hours at a time, having a control knob you can hold in either hand, on your lap or whatever really helps with that. . The servo moves at a matching speed that the control knob does, so its identical to my hand movements. I had  hoped I could take this idea further and find someone to make a recorder for the signal that I could play back and repeat my hand wind session, that I could interrupt with my own hand guided corrections; the playback I could move the end limits of the wind and have the playback scale to the current bobbin length on the winder. Was also hoping that whoever set the software and hard linked controller up could also write a programmable interface where I could also do machine type winds with regular repeatable pitches that I set  up. Well, its a good idea, uses really cheap parts, but I never found anyone who could pull it off. So thats why I'm looking into a CNC winder. I would definitely want this same idea in a CNC winder if its possible, not a "learning" option but a recorder with resettable end limits and a scalable coil length.

Anyway, so any help you guys can give or point me to someone who can build a winder for me that will hopefully do what I really need for my own work, using cheap off the shelf hardware and the Mach3 software, I'd be a happy guy. If I can get one built reasonably enough at some point thereafter I'd want another one built, and who knows maybe a few more, I really need to get into serious production soon, this isn't and has never been a hobby for me (but I LOVE it). This winder though would be my intellectual property, not for sale, I wouldn't want to a winder out there for sale that winds SD Pickups :-)

I'm also cruising Ebay looking for a used winder and may just give in and buy an already made product, some of them can be faked mechanically into doing pretty good versions of hand wound coils. OK......end or loooooong rant.......
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Possum on July 02, 2006, 10:20:10 PM
Hope this thread isn't dead or everyone's out shooting off fireworks. The more I think about this idea of mine the more I think maybe I should try to build just the traverse myself and maybe get some help with the software here. I really only need the traverse and looking at the prototype built here it looks pretty simple, just need help sourcing those parts etc. Anyway hope to see followup on this thread soon, happy fourth everyone.......
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Brian Barker on July 04, 2006, 09:14:44 AM
The parts you can get from MSC ( http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm??KNC-T7L391316886 )

You would not need a wizard at first... You could write a Gcode program to get coil that you like and after that we could make a quick wizard :)
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Possum on July 06, 2006, 08:02:06 AM
I don't know what parts are needed, not a clue. Sorry I don't understand the "wizards" concept or how the Mach software even works, it seems my explanation of a guitar pickup winder doesn't interest anyone but me :-) Somehow the bridge between art and technology is something I can't seem to find, I'll keep looking, thanks for your time.......
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on September 15, 2006, 09:04:36 AM
The video is on scottyanke.com, Just RAR it together. I still don't know what I need to upload for the screen set, That link is there but not working  right now. IE which .set file? I have moved on to other projects like my mill and a cnc panel saw. I"LL SHIP THE WINDER WITH DRIVES TO THE FIRST PERSON TO RESPOND WHO HAS TIME TO CONTINUE THE DEVELOPMENT FOR FREE>
(I mean i'll give it to who ever wants it)
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Deon Gerber on September 15, 2006, 02:27:13 PM
Hi

If you are that nice I have a very nice worktop whereit can sit on.I do pickup windings. I would love to develope it some more.
I Would want to give you something in return though, or at least pay for shipping......

Let me know.

Thanks
Deon
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Deon Gerber on September 15, 2006, 02:34:10 PM
Hi

Its me again. Forgot to tell you I watched your video. Very Very nice.Realy can use this to the full.....

Thanks
Deon
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jemmyell on September 15, 2006, 07:43:22 PM
Hi, I would be interested in the winder also.  I make electric guitars for a hobby.  I am a software engineer by profession, I am just getting involved with Mach3 wizards and Plugins.

-James Leonard
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Brian Barker on September 15, 2006, 10:39:52 PM
Love the video!
thanks
Brian
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on September 15, 2006, 10:53:42 PM
Thanks Patanke for the video. I have hosted it here too, as one file http://www.machsupport.com/coilwinder.mpg
Whoever claims the nice offer from Patanke realises a lot will be expected from them :)
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ka1bbg on September 16, 2006, 05:51:19 AM
Hi, i spent 12 years working in an alternator/starter rebuilding shop i set up for another person. handicapped i have time to offer suggestions, experience in electronics as well. be glad to answer questions anytime, cul brian f.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: irfanulla on September 17, 2006, 10:14:59 AM
Let us not forget the composite industry, there is a whole lot of future to the coil winder from mach (if Art considers it) Composite industry utilizes the coil winding for winding glass for making pipes, tanks etc........it would open up a whole lot of market.........It could be in the form of a plugin oras Mach Winder..... a part of the whole Mach package.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: DAlgie on September 17, 2006, 11:28:50 AM
I do composite work, now that I look at it, can the software run the wind mandrel a half turn, advance the guide post a certain amount, run the mandrel another half turn, then retract the guide post a certain amount? I didn't see on the screen above where you could set it to do this. This would be the use for composites, rather than just a typical spool wind such as an electrical use needs.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: irfanulla on September 17, 2006, 03:04:48 PM
U are right, it may need to be a bit more complex than just winding a coil, but as far as it is to be wound the software could be done in any way possible for the specific application........U only need to know the different patterns used for windng glass on a mandrel and make the program run that way.

Correct me if Iam wrong..........I am just suggesting....... :)
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: DAlgie on September 17, 2006, 03:23:50 PM
Yes, that's right, you already have the correct hardware there as the spindle is a stepper or servo. Just an addition to the basic program would do it, with the additional input on the display. Now if I could just get a post for CAM to wind a prop blade....
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Brian Barker on September 17, 2006, 10:39:13 PM
You guys are going to Kill me  ;D
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on September 18, 2006, 02:16:53 PM
I have Emailed Deon for his address, as long as it is in the USA, and he responds to my email I'll send it to him as he was the first to respond. Other wise its jemmyell's.

For those who offered to buy it, I appreciate the offer, but consider this to be an open source release. Use it,  develop it, copy it, when you get tired of the winder give it to some one else who can continue the effort. I "bit" at Brian's offer that if someone would build it he would code it FOR FREE! , but now I have moved on, My offer is to pass on the work I have done to the next torch bearerFOR FREE. My implied expectation is that they will take my offer and continue the circle of development. I hope the rest of you following the thread stay on top of whoever receives it like they did me, hopefully the gentle proding will keep the next developer on track. Hopefully they will continue the circle of good will and pass it on FOR FREE when they are done with it.

Second since it is a free work in progress, it is up to the receiver not to shock and kill your self, or pinch your finger, windup your little sisters hair, or the dogs tail ..... You all get the idea.

Besides, building a large,  20 foot or so, servo driven filament winder is still on my project list (Its a long list) but it is still there. I hope to come back to the development in the future and continue to expand the circle.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: zoltan on September 19, 2006, 02:56:32 AM
Hi,

Sorry for dumb question but where is the program which is running the winding machine from video clip? I mean the final version of this program.

Thank you,

Zoltan
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on September 19, 2006, 04:20:53 AM
Good question Zoltan. :)
From my understanding Patanke has the beta, that was written by Brian Barker, using my screen set, at the convention.
Patanke says he doesnt know what to upload. Brian says he doesnt have a copy. I never made a prototype machine as promised.

I think we have made two steps forward and one step bacwards. We have seen a proof of concept made, but are no closer to having a public domain beta.

I think this project will eventually happen, but it will be a slow process.
I have done as much as I can do, by making the screen set, but do not know how to program it.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on September 19, 2006, 02:52:56 PM
I think I found the file everyone has been looking for and fixed the link on my sight.

http://www.scottyanke.com/coil.html

Can some one load it and tell me if it was the right one.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: zoltan on September 20, 2006, 05:30:06 AM
Hi,

It seems that it does not work for me. I have tried also silverblue screen and pink screen. The silverblue does not work either, but pink screen does work. What do you think I did wrong something?

Thank you.

Zoltan
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on September 20, 2006, 09:12:15 AM
Thanks for fixing the link on your site Patanke.
I have downloaded it and given it a test. It is great to see it work by entering all the setting and then getting it to generate the code.
Now we have a alpha version again we can edit it from here.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: patanke on September 20, 2006, 10:43:07 AM
I'm Glad it worked. If you start editing you'll notice  a .7 of an inch (i think) modifier added to the code. This is so that I could home the machine by stalling it on the right side reset the dro's and start winding. The code I have also stops the spindle via a .00001 (i think) move in reverse between passes. This was because running full speed with the tubing I needed a delay to allow the x axis to decelerate and accelerate. With out the delay the z would get out of sinc with the x. Both of these were departures from Brains original code. Do responce from Deon... an email has been sent to jemmyell
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jemmyell on September 20, 2006, 11:26:37 AM
And jemmyell has replied to that email!

Thanks for the consideration.  The machine will be modified by adding a faceplate to which a guitar pickup bobbin can be mounted.  I have been
anticipating making a manual winder for a while now, so I have all the supplies for several types of guitar pickup in storage.  I can start software work ASAP.

-James
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: zoltan on September 20, 2006, 12:30:51 PM
HI,

Please, help. Mine does not work. I mean it is a black screen with few lines, few windows with some values there but nothing else from the picture attached in the archive. Now, all other screens I downloaded and talked about in my previous reply are working, just I have some issues which are probably related with resolution that the size is smaller than the display window. What I done was I just extracted the set file to Mach3 dir and then opened with Load screen command. Could, you, please, advice what I can do?

Thank you.

Zoltan
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Deon Gerber on September 20, 2006, 05:18:15 PM
Hi Scott

Hope I am not to late for the reply. My spam filter nabed your mail.
Let me know if I am still in the running.

Thanks
Deon
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on September 20, 2006, 10:44:28 PM
Zoltan, make sure the coil winder folder is in the bitmap folder of mach3 and the coilwinder.set is in the mach3 folder
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: zoltan on September 21, 2006, 12:52:58 AM
Aha....OK. I did not put the folder in bitmap folder, only the set file in Mach3 dir. THANK YOU.

Zoltan
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: zoltan on September 21, 2006, 02:28:53 AM
Hi,

Thank you again. Now I can see it (the screen) but I do not know how it works. If I modify something in wizard area when I go to the next window it reset to previous value. I could not generate any code and it seems that I can not setup it and it does not control. Could someone help me again with few guidelines? I adapted my first hobby cnc machine to winding coils machine and I would like try to make some coils.

Thank you.

Zoltan
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Deon Gerber on September 21, 2006, 02:48:09 AM
Hi

Sad to say I graciously lost the race for the coil winder :-\ Dam..........
Good luck to you jemmye ,Hope you enjoy!

Thanks
Deon
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: ynneb on September 21, 2006, 06:58:57 AM
Quote
Good luck to you jemmye ,Hope you enjoy!
We are all looking forward to seeing how Jemmye's software engineering experience will help us all.
Thanks for volunteering to carry the torch.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jemmyell on September 21, 2006, 09:45:26 AM
Hello,

One of the points of an open source hardware / software project is to produce COMPLETE specs for the design.  I hope to have drawings made of the winder as it exists soon after it arrives.  That, and a parts list (MSC probably) will allow Deon (maybe possum) to make one too!

I will initially continue with the wizard as it was put together, then probably start changing things as we discuss here what the many goals will be.  I will be happy to accept any and all wishlists, but those related to electric guitar pickups and tube amplifier transformer coils will get first look, those being my personal interests.

-James
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: zoltan on September 25, 2006, 08:55:16 AM
Hi,

Can somebody help me? It is very frustrating. I do not know how to use the screen. I can open it, see it, but I can not setup it and I can not generate the code and of course no movement. Please, help. I would like to see it working even if it is not doing right things but at least working as in the video.

Thank you.

Zoltan
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jemmyell on September 25, 2006, 02:42:27 PM
Hi,

Can somebody help me? It is very frustrating. I do not know how to use the screen. I can open it, see it, but I can not setup it and I can not generate the code and of course no movement. Please, help. I would like to see it working even if it is not doing right things but at least working as in the video.

Thank you.

Zoltan

Hi,

Just enter 4 parameters: 'Set spool width', 'Set amount of turns', 'Set wire gauge' and 'set max wind speed' then push the 'standard left to right button' and it's associated LED will light up.  You can then press the 'generate winding code' button to get GCODE for those parameters.

BE SURE to press the enter key after typing in each parameter or it won't be made permanent in the edit control.

-James
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: zoltan on September 26, 2006, 04:15:47 AM
Hi,

Thank you. I have found out the issue. I did not press the ENTER before.

Zoltan
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jemmyell on October 11, 2006, 11:31:17 AM
Hello!

The coil winder arrived yesterday!  Thanks to Patanke for his true generosity.  The first steps I want to take are to document the current design for the group with drawings and a parts list.  I can start playing with software as soon as I get it hooked up to a computer.  My house is in a total mess now due to an almost complete room addition which included a rebuild of my workshop.  The winder will have residence in my office since it is a clean running device unlike my other CNC routers and lathes.

-James
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jfc11 on January 08, 2007, 06:00:30 AM
Hi,
Have you made the drawings and parts list for the winder
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jemmyell on January 11, 2007, 01:46:21 PM
Hi, I just noticed this post!

I am working on getting my workshop useable again this weekend.  My fiancee arrived from China and she is now my wife.  There have been a LOT of things to do over the holidays, but I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel now.

-James
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Chaoticone on January 11, 2007, 02:00:55 PM
Congratulations.


Brett
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jfc11 on January 11, 2007, 05:59:32 PM
congrats as well
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Werner on March 14, 2007, 10:46:52 AM
Hi Benny,
Just wanted to know if you had a version of this screen I could play.  I have a spooling machine I use now with nc code.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: KevinW on March 29, 2007, 12:05:59 AM
Hello all.

I’m designing / building a large machine which will operate very much like the coil winder currently in development.

My machine will wind and spot weld a wire onto mandrel holding other wires axially on its perimeter. The mandrel will remain stationary, and the axial wires will be pulled out of the mandrel (as a unit) as the wire is wound on.

It will look like a lathe (ie. Operator controls on the left, workpiece in front), and build up to 40” diameter x 16 foot long workpieces.  Similar machines in existence helically wind/weld heavy wire onto concrete column rebar cages, but I need to be more precise, like .063” wire at .070” pitch, for example

When I saw the Mach screen for the coil winder, it struck me that this looks very close to my desired interface. I had planned to use “real” buttons, counters, displays, etc, but it seems that Mach and a suitable touch-screen should be able to simulate all of that.

Trouble is: I have zero knowledge of how to adapt/change the Mach screens and coding to suit my needs.

Is anyone out there prepared to help me with this? (I am not necessarily asking for a volunteer here)

Thanks!

KevinW.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: poppabear on March 30, 2007, 11:46:49 PM
Kevin,

   Yes, I can help you on a screen.

I can do proffessional services for you.

Email at:    poppabear@hughes.net

Scott Shafer
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: WillyB on July 11, 2007, 02:21:51 PM
Hi Guys

What is required to change Mach 3 to work as the Coil Winder? What directory do you install the Screen File in? What else needs to be changed to make it work? I am interested in seeing how it works and possibly building a Coil Winding machine. Thanks for your help.

Willy
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Ron Ginger on July 21, 2007, 08:51:27 PM
Screen files are usually installed in the base Mach3 directory. Just copy it to the directory, start Mach and select the menu item for View, screen set. Select the screen file you want and Mach will load it.

I dont know anything about the coil winder screen, but you would have to get the correct motors conmfigured and tuned, to match what the screen expects.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: turmite on September 22, 2007, 12:48:11 AM
Man it is a shame to let this die. Jimmy are you out there?

Mike
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: jemmyell on October 04, 2007, 12:29:34 PM
Man it is a shame to let this die. Jimmy are you out there?

Mike

Mike, you are right!  I am ashamed that I have not been able to work on this, so per our emails I am posting my intention to send you the machine so you can make CAD drawings and carry the the project forward.

Thanks for taking this on!

-James
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: turmite on October 10, 2007, 04:35:34 PM
Hi James,

Now I wasn't trying to shame you!  ;D I'll do what I can on it and if I can't finish it, we'll find someone that can. I know I can do the cad and docs on that part. 

You have all my contact info.

Mike
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: schouten_tjeerd on June 11, 2010, 09:14:06 AM
I have made a program as well which outputs Gcode so you can use your normal CNC milling machine hardware to be used as a coil winder. It is called Gcoil, part of Gsuite:
http://pilotpage.monosock.org/fileadmin/files/Gsuite_v1.3.rar (http://pilotpage.monosock.org/fileadmin/files/Gsuite_v1.3.rar)

(http://pilotpage.monosock.org/fileadmin/files/gcoil.JPG)
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: gaitafole on October 10, 2010, 05:14:02 AM
Hello:

I'm Carlos from Portugal, and it's the first time i come in forum-.
Well, i install Mach 3 and i make all operations to make work coil winder, i tipe all values in sreen and make enter, but nothing happen, please teel me if my interface LPT coil winder is no good, or post to me a schematic to make a new interface please.
I use a interface from "Nuts and Volts" in my opinion dangerous to lpt port because it has not isolation by optocoupler.
Has anybody a schematic whith a usb interface ?
I d'ont know if i can post attachments with schematics, if not modrerators delete that.
Sorry bad english!

Carlos
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: nelnar on April 12, 2012, 10:40:32 PM
hello my friends
I'm from Brazil.
I have two motors nema 23:01 tb6560 plate for 3 engines.
I installed the program MATCH 3 Scrin and the coil winder.
Just got to spin a motor.
where I'm wrong?
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: nelnar on April 12, 2012, 10:52:03 PM
the engine is running is the "SPOOL WIDTH traveled."
The engine is not working is the "spool turns"
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: carman on May 31, 2018, 01:25:18 PM
Hi friends, i have already install mach3 (demo) and try to use coil winder screen set; that's the result. Does aynone knows what's wrong about it ?

(https://ibb.co/cUrway)

screenshot: https://ibb.co/cUrway

Thanks.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: joeaverage on May 31, 2018, 02:38:59 PM
aHi,
try using just one of the standard screens to start with.

Once you get Mach running THEN experiment with other screens.

Craig
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: carman on May 31, 2018, 02:48:51 PM
Hi Craig,

I have already did that, but nothing is change.

Faith.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: joeaverage on May 31, 2018, 03:01:26 PM
Hi.
so what actually happens?

Does Mach3 attempt to load and run?

I'm begining to think you may have a corrupt copy of Mach. May I suggest delete the C:\Mach3 folder and download a fresh copy.
This time when you are asked to select a profile at start up select the standard mill profile. Start from there.

Craig
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: carman on May 31, 2018, 03:12:52 PM
Hi.
so what actually happens?

Does Mach3 attempt to load and run?

I'm begining to think you may have a corrupt copy of Mach. May I suggest delete the C:\Mach3 folder and download a fresh copy.
This time when you are asked to select a profile at start up select the standard mill profile. Start from there.

Craig

Ok Craig, i will do and i'll send the results.

Thanks again :)
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: carman on May 31, 2018, 03:34:23 PM
Actually, nothing is changed.

screenshot: https://ibb.co/czZ8oJ
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: joeaverage on May 31, 2018, 04:54:53 PM
Hi,
did you attempt to run one of the standard screen sets and standard mill profile as  I suggested?.

That coil winding screen is as old as the hills and was never completed. I'm not sure how much
use you'd get from it.

I use Mach4 and wrote my own coil winding script.

You might try to download Mach4 just to see whether it will install and run on your PC.

Craig
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: joeaverage on May 31, 2018, 05:11:56 PM
Hi,
you may have noted that some of the latest updates from Microsoft, particularly Windows 10,
have interfered with Mach3. I wonder if that is what is happening to you.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,37291.0.html (http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,37291.0.html)

Craig
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 01, 2018, 01:42:43 AM
Hi carman,

You are missing the graphics so you need to copy the Coil winder bitmaps folder to the Mach3 Bitmaps folder.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: carman on June 01, 2018, 08:37:40 AM
Hi Craig,

I did exactly what you said.

Hi Tweakie,

Unfortunately, there is no bitmap folder (inside attachment/zip files).


Faith.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 01, 2018, 10:30:35 AM
Hi Craig,

I did exactly what you said.

Hi Tweakie,

Unfortunately, there is no bitmap folder (inside attachment/zip files).


Faith.

The downloaded folder 'Coil winder' should be added to your Mach3 bitmaps folder.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: carman on June 02, 2018, 07:49:49 AM
I will check in monday.

Thanks Tweakie.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 02, 2018, 08:36:46 AM
The downloaded Coil winder folder only contains one bitmap (a .jpg file) but if you modify the screen for your own purposes then that is where the image bitmaps are stored.

I modified the coil winder screen a while back for a guitar string winder and this thread refers;   http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,28721.msg201561.html#msg201561

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: carman on June 05, 2018, 04:55:20 PM
Dear Tweakie,  i try to make something with Machscreen but there is a much more missing component.

https://ibb.co/bJSdho

By the way, i have no idea for how to use screen editors.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 06, 2018, 02:09:59 AM
If you look in your Mach3 / Bitmaps folder - the folder MillBitmaps contains all the images necessary for the standard screen 1024.set. When using any screen editor it has to be run from a location that can access both the screen and it's associated bitmaps folder otherwise, as you have found, images are missing from the editor screen.

I still use the old original editor but Klaus has produced a much improved editor together with instructional notes and video's on it's use;  http://www.kd-dietz.com/klausphp/pages/eng/machscreen/description/ms_description.html

Hope this helps,

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: carman on June 12, 2018, 05:16:28 PM
Hi Tweakie and joeaverage, Thanks for your helps :)

Klaus way made easier everything for me. Some bitmaps are doesn't worked, i try to made with labels and buttons (and import some bitmaps from 1024 screen set).

Last screen like this, i will find best placement of buttons by the time:  

https://ibb.co/gRLU2y

And seems ok for now, i have a newborn baby and i'm really far away from my workshop. I will set the winder in july and then start to trials.

I want to ask somethings about macros behind the buttons.  

-Why "generate g code" button begin from 1.17 mm (x axis), i don't know why and i modified scripts and its start from 0.00 mm. I guess 1.17mm is enough margine for bobbin edges, ok it can be modified with bobbin  specs.

-"Set max wind speed" dro doesn't effect anything. I modified makro and made 550 for Feedrate ( well, i'm not programmer or makro writer i just try to hack it and make usable for me :) my programming skills left dead with C64 ). Do you know how can i set "max wind speed" active? (function=   user defined:1002) ?

-"Standart left to right" button can be described as "CW or CCW" ? i didn't tested anything on stepper motors, so i'm only try to guessing.

Thanks for your answers and patience :) sorry for my English, not my native language. Please excuse any errors on my part.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: hedgehog on August 17, 2018, 04:04:41 AM
Hi carman! How do you advance affairs with new screen? 
Change "Set max wind speed" the 28th line of a script to "code "G01 X " & Xpos & " A " & Apos & "F" & windspeeds".
What your native language? Good luck.
Title: Re: Coil winding machine ( Wizard needed)
Post by: HeadSmess on November 06, 2019, 10:25:02 PM
oh no!

over 120 days since the last post!

forgive me... im sure that happens a lot on this site... you get crucified on other sites for it... oh well... resurrection!

so, ive had a gander through a few pages and didnt see my specific requirements listed, and looking at the screenshot... it doesnt have it.

i am winding induction coils AND output transformers. and a few other things here and there.

both require a pause in between each layer, then maybe a slow turn as i have to wrap insulation on each time.

and, as each layer has a slight overlap... i need the ends of each layer to stagger slightly, otherwise i wind up (oh ha-de-ha!) with a rather awkward bulge. for the induction coil it isnt that big a deal (as long as i make the box AFTER ive done!) but with the OPT it can be a struggle when you have to get that window as full as possible and theres a double layer of insulation right where its not wanted... not nice, damaging $80 worth of copper cus you tried squashing the coil in the vice... (actually, my stuff up was not realising the final core lamination sliced into the bobbin and cut through one strand... ::) at least the second time i wound it it looked damn professional! only lost an inch of wire. very. last. turn. or first, i guess, from a winding perspective...)
yes, ok, just orient the bobbin so the overlap sticks out to the front (or back)... that works for the OPT i guess.

so far ive just been running under a lathe profile, simple winder from the bits and pieces off my old 3d printer, and a nested subroutine using M1 stops each layer. works... sort of ok.

spindle is A axis, stepper motor, so i can keep it synched up without any encoders.. i am noticing though, that it almost stops on each turn. just running incremental, X back and forth at the wire diameter, with A constantly incrementing 360. easy... but not perfect. CV mode. i suppose i can always go absolute and do the maths... 500 turns of 0.125 is 75mm at 180,001 (stagger!) degrees for example...

yet it seemed to not do that the other day... and only does it when i start pushing the feed rate over 130%... (feeding at 10,000 degrees/min... pretty slow)

lets just say its awkward when i snap the wire... which happens fairly often with the current coil, as im re-using the old silk wound and rosin impregnated wire from the induction coil (some old pre-1900's thing... i got carried away replacing its lead out wires...) have to unwind the last layer, reset it all... homing switches? whats a homing switch? i whipped this winder up in about 2 hours... dead basic. it also means i have to keep track of the layers ive completed, because a snapped wire invariably means i have to run the code again. i guess i could just un-nest that subroutine, seeing as i have to hit run on every layer anyway... but still have to keep track.

soooo... i have no idea how to modify this... what is it? VB code?

i dont really want to spend the next few days learning how to do so...

iunno. it just seems like it would be the final addition that would make this screenset super user-friendly! a pause for layers, and a few degrees of stagger on each layer. just a wee little extra option... hint hint!

anyway, only got 28 layers left. this ones easy. just frustrating. im procrastinating... yes, i just snapped the wire again!

i am dreading my next project though... 50,000 turns of 0.1mm... twice. yep. 100,000 turns in total, in 100 layers, on two bobbins... im aiming for about 500KV... gunna make one HELL of a jacobs ladder! (yes, i know how to deal with high voltages, dont worry... otherwise i wouldnt be here still!) local scrapyard has spools ranging from 4 to 20kg... $10 a kg. shame the sizes are mostly useless for just about anything but guitar pickups...

and yeah, i gotta do the other OPT on the stereo... i did set up a manual winder with printed gears and the leadscrew from the mill from when i converted it to CNC. two years ago. ive forgotten exactly what i did... and it was all held together with g-clamps anyway... i needed them!


yeah yeah, long winded post...

right. coffees drunk, ciggies smoked, post is completed... back to winding!