Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: nobby on January 29, 2023, 04:04:03 PM
-
hello please - been off grid for a fair few years.....
just bought a little machine \/ see pic some german tiny 280mm square thang
the bloody thing has 5 phase 10 wire motors - damn
do they go straight in the bin?
the drivers and controllers 1997 ish - rs232 straight in the bin?
had an old nema 23 hanging about and the bolt pattern is just a bit too small
47mm nema 23 - the machine has positec vdrm 564/50 lna at 60mm bolt spacing
do i simply slot the cheapo nema 23 motors
am i going for 56mm nema 23's with 8 wires and going bi polar parrallel?
anyone in the uk got any little dual shafted little 8 wire nema 23's x3
6mm to 6.35mm blums to do aswell =
bloody thing
nice quality
got one of them network nvem controller break out things, are they worth the hassle
the machine has a 24 volt spindle in it already and a group of relay type things for door open and emergency stop and that but I just need emergency stop and spindle control?
thanks
-
Hi,
my first mini-mill which I used for eight years had five phase Vexta steppers and they are superb. Admittedly my steppers only had five wires and the
drivers (direct off-line) had the colors marked, so it was easy. I tuned them to do 2400 rpm through an integrated 10:1 low lash (<2 arc min) planetary
gearbox direct coupled to the ballscrews. Once I got them dialed in they were perfect, never missed a step unless I did something stupid.
The natural resolution of a five phase stepper is 500 pulse/rev, compare that to a two phase stepper of 200 pulse/rev, so the 5 phase wins hands down there.
You try and get ANY two phase stepper to do 2400rpm. I did use 3000 rpm at one stage, but they got just too hot so I dialed them back a bit. The drivers
are direct connected to incoming 230VAC supply. The drivers themselves put out about 150VDC so that's why they can go so fast.
I paid big dollars for them second hand nearly ten years ago now, and they lasted all the eight years on my mini-mill. I managed to blow one up when
I put it on my new fourth axis on my new mill a while back.. I have no regrets, those little motor did thousands of hours for me, and they were old when I got them!
The bottom line is that five phase steppers are all high quality premium steppers, reuse them if you can. There were only a few manufacturers of them, Vexta (Oriental Motor),
Largher and Pacific Science are the ones I remember, but I seem to recall Sanyo-Denki made them as well. All top tier companies.
I have four Vexta RKD514L-C drivers if you need them. 230VAC input, 5phase full step and half step output, up to 1.4A/phase. They are old now but still Japanese quality.
Craig
-
Reading between the lines
I am reckoning that all servo motors are 10 core 5 phase motors, 500 pulse, maybe, I had a set of minas a4 and they did have the 60mm bolt space, anyhoo. There were some 41mm long 8 wire NEMA 23s on that popular auction site for 7 bucks each free post. So I shall run them bipolar parallel. Cheap. I have some drivers, easy.
-
Hi,
I am reckoning that all servo motors are 10 core 5 phase motors, 500 pulse, maybe,
No. Old school servo motors are a brushed DC motor fitted with either a tacho-generator and/or an encoder. No pulses.
Brushless DC servos have three phases around the outside of a permanently magnetized rotor and use trapezoidal commutation. No pulses.
AC servos have three phase windings on the outside of a permanently magnetized rotor fitted with an encoder. They use Field Oriented Control,
ie have a smart drive providing three phase sinusoidal excitation to the winding. No pulses.
Craig
-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371869900858?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20220705100511%26meid%3D1f1c57043e864050ba840d5f8cc1ac76%26pid%3D101524%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D371869900858%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2&_trksid=p2380057.c101524.m146925&_trkparms=pageci%3Aaa6ea7df-a0ca-11ed-9037-3268d37f8c46%7Cparentrq%3A03e802541860a7b9dd0d36adfffc1baa%7Ciid%3A1
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/J2UAAOSwtfhYpx2H/s-l1600.jpg)
8 wire bi polar parallel
feed it 2.5 amps?
that be ok for a mini mill 24volts and 2 amps, the psu is only 9.6 = 10 a
do i need juice for the 24 v spindle?
-
Hi,
all steppers lose torque the faster they go, its just the physics of how stepper motors work. The inductance of a stepper motor determines how bad that torque degradation
will be. The lower the inductance the better. What inductance are those steppers you have pictured?
The classic way to try to overcome the reducing torque is to use the highest possible voltage drivers and power supply.
I think 24VDC is a joke....those steppers are likely to stall at 100rpm. If you used 60VDC or 72VDC or better 80VDC then they might get to 1000rpm.
Craig
-
groovy
so my mach3 license works still as does my sheet cam tng
now, is there a new button i see in sheetcam that auto opens mach3 with the part i have just post processed?
cant seem to get it to do it?
also have a
SCHMERSAL AZR31T0/24V
https://az343058.vo.msecnd.net/productlargeimages/31b7f7c3122a4fda88d3dcfbb2b10d26.jpg
relay thing
the spindle itcontrolls is only 24v
so does it want a 5v signal from the breakout controllery thing through this relay
do i run th estop through it
and do i set it up as it was stock for a door switch
dont know how to do the spindle control yes as havnt done that before
motors bought
mach3 set up and sheet cam - remembered how to get a 2d file into that and into mach
hmm
pray tell, i want to model prismatic lettering and mill it in a hdu type of stuff to then take a mould from as=nd cast them in resin and led back light them
what 3d cam software should i be looking at?
-
also what is the total cost involved in mach 4
how much is the software
how much is a controller
3 axis will do
thanks
-
Hi,
if you have a Mach3 license then it still works and makes sense to carry on.
I use Mach4 and have done for eight years, and in my opinion is vastly better. That does not mean that it cuts more accurately or faster but rather
its about the ability to customise your machine. Mach4 is definitely better for that. Having said that for a three axis machine you don't really need any
of the Mach4 goodness, Mach3 will work.
Mach4 costs $200. No upgrade from Mach3, its a totally new product. Mach4 requires an external motion controller, I'd recommend an ESS ($190). Note the ESS
can use either Mach3 OR Mach4, so even if you decide months from now that you want Mach4 the same ESS will work. You'll need a breakout board, or maybe more than
one if you want a lot of IO. A C10 is $23.00 and has 17IO's. A C25 is $29.00 and has 34 IO's. Note neither the C10 or C25 have a relay for the spindle nor a PWM circuit
for the spindle, you'd need to do a little electronics to add those. There are many breakout boards that work with an ESS, right up to an MB3 ($180) from CNCRoom with
51 IO's, all the relays, PWM circuits, inputs, differential motor outputs 'you can shake a stick at'.
I would suggest if possible to reuse your existing five phase steppers. If you post some closeups we may be able to learn enough about them to get them working.
As I posted earlier I have 4 'kick arse' 5 phase Vexta drivers that'll make your machine sing. I'd sell the lot for $200, remember I'm in New Zealand....so it might cost a penny or two
to get them to wherever you are.
Note sure what the gadget is that you linked to, can you post a pic of the circuit diagram on the side?
I use Fusion, a paid subscription, but is available free to hobbyists. There are other CAD/CAM that would do what you want, I think if Tweakie reads this he will know the
one I'm thinking of, I cant remember it offhand.
Craig
-
I use Fusion, a paid subscription, but is available free to hobbyists. There are other CAD/CAM that would do what you want, I think if Tweakie reads this he will know the
one I'm thinking of, I cant remember it offhand.
Craig
If it's any help, I use Vectric Aspire which I think would be ideal for the construction of prismatic lettering and casting moulds etc. https://www.vectric.com/products/aspire
Tweakie.
-
Hi Tweakie,
thanks, I'd forgotten Aspire. I seem to recall there was a freeware solution, not Freecad or FreeUtils........or something..... that had useful letter engraving capability.
Craig
-
Hi Tweakie,
thanks, I'd forgotten Aspire. I seem to recall there was a freeware solution, not Freecad or FreeUtils........or something..... that had useful letter engraving capability.
Craig
The best free letter engraving software that I have used is F-Engrave. https://www.scorchworks.com/Fengrave/fengrave.html
It is perhaps more suited to V-Carving lettering than producing moulds but it may be worth taking a look.
Tweakie.
-
Hi,
thanks Tweakie, that was the one I was thinking about. OP can decide for himself.
Craig
-
pics of motors and controller
-
pic of controller
rs232 so a simply rs232 parallel input, i could simply work out the i/o and connect it to mach3?
-
the other thing////
am i NOT supposed to be using windows 11?
is it something to do with plugins?
thanks
-
Hi,
those steppers are made by Berger Larh, a top quality German brand. If you can reuse them do so.
The controllers appear to match....which is good news. Getting information about them so you can use them may be a challenge. The 'cross' someone has
put on one of them may mean its faulty?
If you want to run Mach3 and Mach3's parallel port then you'd need a 32 bit version of Windows 7 or XP. No 64 bit OS will work, neither will Windows 8,10 or 11.
If you want to use a 64 bit PC then you need an external motion controller like an Ethernet SmoothStepper. The parallel port is history....forget it.
Try to find the information about the drivers and then test them to see if they work. If they do all's well, if not then you'll need replacements. You need to make the tests to determine that choice.
Craig.
-
no, the cross is an x I put on it for x -axis
the machine was complete
the 'really' funky things is I have bought two complete machines
this is a small mill
the other is a double wire hot wire cutter for foam cutting - cutting foam to keep you still in a thingbob machine
i think this machine has a light box draw that you pull out and use as a digitiser type thing - still junk nowadays, but hey ho
was on the ebay for ages, typically 5 miles up the road and got the first one in my little car
going to get the other on the weekend
like you say, the first thing I did was pull it apart as it was in an enclosure - check the dates on the giblets
its all really high quality stuff, but I fear its from 1997
I have already bought the new little nema 23's 8 wire
i have some 3a drivers that I know how to set up
and I have a network cable 3 axis breakout board
a mach 3 license
would have been nice to use the motors, I did check the data sheets and as soon as I saw they were ten core new it was out of my realm, or league,
then i checked the price of them on ebay....................
vrdm 564/50 lna
-
Hi,
its all really high quality stuff, but I fear its from 1997
Whatd'ya mean, I'm from the sixties and still f*******ing excellent! ;D
Craig
-
yes, you went through the 32 bit to 64 bit software no worky on me new pc tarbarkle - them youngling don't know they are born.
so yes, 1997 = its all a bit not worth it, the otehr thing is, when looking on the ebay and there being real lots of them for sale means no one has gotten their heads around a re-porpoise
seems a shame to cut the cables from them too, BUT The shielded cable 'appears' to be worth more than the motors them selves
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vqcAAOSwifpidNjF/s-l1600.jpg)
some of them in my control box = easy
-
Hi.
That is an RS232 breakout board, it may plug into the drives and allow you to hook up some wires but you still need to know the pinout
of the plug....and that is Berger Lahr specific.
If you've already bought two phase steppers and driver then just forget the 5 phase stuff.
You will need a motion controller like an ESS and a breakout board. Make some decisions around those components.
Craig
-
what is the real kick in the pantaloons is
I had three sets of panasonic minas a4 200w motor and drives
the motors share this machines 50mm mounting and bore - its the exact same, I originally thought they were a servo motor when i measured them as nema 23 is 56mm on centres
anyways
i sold them years ago, but I might treat myself
then it will be
bolt on botors
connect to drives
connect controller to drives
vroom vroom
does anyone bother with for example 200w little servos and drives on a tiddly machine
there is no information on 200w panasonic minas motors and drives used in hobby cnc
or mitsuboshi
or yaskawa
shame really
ok so a set of motors and drives is 500 odd - used
thast not out of this world
....................................................................
no, sod that
3 nema 23's 41mm long 8 wire bipolar £21
3 3a stepper drivers £27
one 24v 10 a psu £30
total 78
3 panasonic minas a5 200w servo motors and drives £600 - 700
hmm
edit
- not to self
DO NOT BUY panasonic minas a5 200w servo drive part number
MADHT1507
DO NOT buy panasonic minas a5 motor 200w part number
MHMD022 G1U
-
Hi,
does anyone bother with for example 200w little servos and drives on a tiddly machine
there is no information on 200w panasonic minas motors and drives used in hobby cnc
or mitsuboshi
or yaskawa
The problem is cost....all of those will cost well over $500 each. I use Delta servos which are a Taiwanese brand made in China,
good quality, performance, support and free set-up and tuning software at fair prices. The 200W servo is believe it or not costs
more than a 400W servo, they are both 60mm square, but the 400W being that much more popular is cheaper:
https://www.fasttobuy.com/220v-127nm-ac-servo-motor-drive-kits-400w-delta-servo-motor-3000rpm-60mm-cnc-machinery-motion-control_p28069.html (https://www.fasttobuy.com/220v-127nm-ac-servo-motor-drive-kits-400w-delta-servo-motor-3000rpm-60mm-cnc-machinery-motion-control_p28069.html)
The same company (fast-to-buy) sell Yaskawa, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Delta and their own in house brand ToAuto. Check out the prices.
ToAuto is easily the cheapest and I have no reason to doubt the quality or performance but they have no set-up and tuning software, and if you've never
set up servos you'll really want that, no matter the extra cost.
Craig
-
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144922498613?epid=1308030908&hash=item21be0dd635:g:RyoAAOSwnvpjxMsO&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoC34NrmijXfFv%2F2odS4evevGNNXiuvMwUjyRy2%2BbWhYvuremePCmkXOiFHmJwGVSdMA1UW4PXFD1xlZdnHYFNCUn87j5qmzl2nKw%2BvhS4MS7%2B53lquZP2UDrwCgJo5IkcEDnF28z8wQlHBBjgzIbZ8eWyg0N6s3FZVlFX8FOIjuHQBDW3%2B8Uskom3lqcC0JRGQcapHXV8Vq7sVdrQyzbOsk%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_aM8prBYQ
yes i shall do the cheap stepper motors 4 phase bi polar parrallel and the cheap drivers to get it going
then search for a set of three of the above
make sure they all work off the machine and swap them in.
what I mean is..... is that an offer of help regards the actual connection and setting up of the drives and the tuning
I think thast what stopped me fitting the minas a4 set i had to my last machine, it was all a bit too specialist
-
Hi,
setting up of the drives and the tuning
I think thast what stopped me fitting the minas a4 set i had to my last machine, it was all a bit too specialist
Yes, setting up servos if you've not done it before is not easy. As it turns out all AC servos are broadly similar. If you know how to set up a Yaskawa then you'll
be able to adapt that to Mitsubishi say. The trick is therefore to find a brand that you can gain that familiarity, and in my case its Delta.
I had quite a battle wiring up the first ones....now it takes under an hour. In particular I have a little comm gadget ($68USD) that you plug into the drive and your PC
to set up all the parameters. There'll be over 400 of them in most modern AC servos, so having setup software is a godsend, otherwise you have to program them
by pushing buttons like a microwave, very tedious and error prone.
You still have to make some decisions on a motion controller and breakout board. That's going to soak up a lot more money than your steppers, even if
not quite as much as a set of three servos.
Craig
-
ahh
so what i really need to look into is the release dates of for exampl
200w panasonic systems
yaskawa sets
and mitsubishi
mitsu for example
Mitsubishi HC-MFS23 200W AC Servo Motor
gate on the box
2015
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NpYAAOSw1T5izWkY/s-l1600.jpg)
thats not ancient.........
find the matching drive to the hc-mfs23
which is a
Mitsubishi MR-J2-20B Servo Drive
then go - no used ones, move on.....
etc
yaskawa
Yaskawa SGM-02A312 200w motor SGDA-02AP fm 200w driver
-
Hi,
I would not go for second hand, or rather its not second hand but where you have to mix and match drives. If you don't know
anything about servos you are letting yourself in for a world of hurt......dont do it.
Even the 200W ToAuto ones in the Fast-to-Buy listing at $248USD are brand new and complete, with cables etc would be better. You don't have to concern yourself
adapting one to the other, they are matched.
I would recommend the 400W Delta B2's at $398USD each, for the quality of the documentation but mainly for the set-up software,
I gaurantee you'll come to appreciate it. Many of the other brands you have to buy the software. You might get it free if you buy new from the distributor
but if you buy second hand you'll have to pay. I bought a second hand 1.8kW Allen Bradley servo and drive. Cost $900NZD delivered which was pretty good.
Then I had to make and/or buy the cables, another $350NZD and then buy the setup software....and you had to, you cannot program the drives without it for another $200NZD.
I did get the servo to work and have been using it on and off for four years as a spindle motor....and good at it it is. As it turns out I could have bought a new 2kW Delta B2
for less.....so you live and learn.
Now that I have some familiarity with servos I would be prepared to take a few extra risks but its hard to beat a servo and its manufacturer supplied drive.
Craig
-
smartdrive nema 23 39mm long 3a
data sheet for SMR230-042-G-FN
https://www.datasheetarchive.com/whats_new/6f20340ee63441d8b2700e76c7e14d8e.html
8 WIRE BIPOLAR PARALLEL
A+ BLACK + WHITE / ORANGE STRIPE
A- ORANGE + WHITE / BLACK STRIPE
B+ REDV+ WHITE / YELLOW STRIPE
B- YELLOW + WHITE / RED STRIPE
CHECK ME HOMEWORK PLEASE
THANSK
£6.95 EACH FREE DELIVERY, A MERE ONE POUND MORE FOR A MOTOR THAN THE BLUM COUPLINGS......
caps lock off
-
spindle is a
maxon dc motor 145354
5 wires coming from it
black = chassis ground
white = + positive motor ?
brown = - negative motor?
green = + positive hall effect?
yellow = - negative hall effect?
the motor power is the outer
the hall sensor speed sensor is the inner?
-
Hi,
Yes, I agree with your Brown and White assignments, Those I would expect to be Motor+ and Motor-.
The two wires for the Hall sensor I dis agree with. Firstly Hall sensors require three wires, a positive and negative supply, and a signal output wire.
Secondly the motor looks to have two wires for DC input, if this were a brushless motor there would be three, so my estimation is that this is
a brushed DC motor.
If that assumption is correct then I would guess the two remaining wires are actually a tacho-generator not Hall senors at all.
Take a multimeter, or better a Kelvin Bridge and measure the resistance between the Brown and White wires. I'd expect to see armature resistance
say 1 Ohm. Then measure between Yellow and Green, if its a tacho generator I would expect to see several hundred Ohms at least.
Craig
-
ahh this machines power supply is a 24v unit
looking at the picture of the controller.
it appears then that the i/o for the step direction and limit switching must be stepped down to 5v
IF there is an option there for 12v
that would suggest the spindle is 12 volt dc?
so ts a 12v dc motor
IF it has a tacho generator, can I assume it will not work with the mach3?
thanks
-
Hi,
You have yet to identify the motor design. Its impossible to say whether its suitable for Mach3 until that question is answered.
Do some testing with a multimeter and determine what the motor is. The answer to other questions may then be apparent.
Craig
-
ohms x100
reads 400 ohms
i think
brown and white
-
ohms x100
tahc
500 ohms
-
Hi,
redo your first measurement. The resistance of the armature will be low, well lower than 10Ohm
Maybe try measuring between other combinations of wires, somewhere you must find a low resistance, be it the armature if its a brushed motor,
or a stator winding if it is brushless.
Craig
-
hello, pardon me from sounding stupid,
I just realised I need a controller for the spindle anyway?
the controller that came with the machine would have had it build in?
considering this machine is 25 years old
did brushless motors exist back then?
to recap
what do i actually want to go and get?
-
Hi,
questions like this are pointless until you confirm what sort of motor it is. The age suggests that this is a brushed DC
motor, but either its faulty, say the brushes worn out, which would explain the high resistance reading you are getting.
Until and unless you can find the armature resistance or equally low stator resistances its not going to run no matter what.
Craig
-
hello there
been looking at stuff.
the spindle motor is a maxon 35/6mm motor body
its mounting is 3 on a triangle
the output shaft i think is 6mm
this goes through a plum or blum coupling to the collet which is in a bearing of its own - real nice and sturdy and factory
I take it IF its a brushed dc motor with a tach its old school
so
maxon themselves make I would assume its modern equivalent in this ?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334307656880?hash=item4dd64a04b0:g:anUAAOSwD5BZa-XI&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoFJ2B9dudiAGgCBZwUiE3sJZFTj%2BHP7mSb6gdaZ9xEC6XYU8nC34rccipP5azMeOMx5p1NvJ1BbGtUBH%2FGTiw9mEbRNOk2X6JoQuhxfmBPQcYjm6Zcwvk0YfYZgsr7h%2F%2Bi90nLozUXPf%2B36eRvENX9W6KtkI6vof4l9VmM%2FzlBs0kxltbj3nFCJCRmL6kw3I4vpmxXR2ss2wmCdlZWSuXpw%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9Kl-bbJYQ
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/anUAAOSwD5BZa-XI/s-l1600.jpg)
Maxon DC motor
Quick Information (Motor + Encoder)
Nominal Motor Voltage: 42 V
Nominal Motor Power: 90 W
Nominal Speed: 7560 rpm
Diameter (Motor): 35 mm
Length over all: 111 mm
Length encoder to motor mounting flange: 91.5 mm
Width at encoder: 45 mm
Motor shaft diameter: 6 mm
Motor shaft length: 18 mm
Encoder resolution at motor shaft: 1000 Counts / rotation = 4000 Increments / rotation
Encoder Voltage: 5 V
Encoder Channels: 2 (A-B)
Original price in this configuration: approx. 482 $
Cable length ca. 250 mm
Comes with a complete cord set, including ferrite cores, combining motor and encoder contacts in one 8-pin plug.
Please tell me if you would like the cable to be removed.
PinOut Encoder
Pin 1: Gnd Enc
Pin 2: not connected
Pin 3: Channel A
Pin 4: Vcc Enc (5V)
Pin 5: Channel B
PinOut Plug
Pin 1: Motor (+)
Pin 2: Shield
Pin 3: Channel B
Pin 4: Vcc Enc (5V)
Pin 5: Channel A
Pin 6: Gnd Enc
Pin 7: Shield
Pin 8: Motor (-)
About Maxon DC motors
maxon DC motors are high-quality motors fitted with powerful permanent magnets. The ?heart? of the motor is the worldwide patented ironless rotor. For you, this means cutting-edge technology in compact, powerful and low inertia drives.
Application
This high quality DC motor with attached incremental encoder and high precision planetary drive can be used for various applications like:
- Robotics
- Arduino projects DIY
- Home automation
- Motion control
- Speed control
- Mechatronic systems
- High torque, hiqh precision, low space application
Specifications - Motor
Maxon Art.-no.: 273754
Supply Voltage 42 V
Nominal power 90 Watt
No load speed 7560 rpm
No load current 92.9 mA
Nominal speed 6820 rpm
Nominal torque (max. continuous torque) 101 mNm
Nominal current (max. continuous current) 2.02 A
Stall torque 1080 mNm
Starting current 20.7 A
Max. efficiency 86 %
Characteristics
Terminal resistance 2.03 Ohm
Terminal inductance 0.62 mH
Torque constant 52.5 mNm/A
Speed constant 182 rpm/V
Speed / torque gradient 7.05 rpm/mNm
Mechanical time constant 5.35 ms
Rotor inertia 72.5 gcm2
Thermal data
Thermal resistance housing-ambient 6.2 K/W
Thermal resistance winding-housing 2 K/W
Thermal time constant winding 30.2 s
Thermal time constant motor 644 s
Ambient temperature -30...+100 °C
Max. permissible winding temperature +155 °C
Mechanical Data
Bearing Type Ball bearings
Max. permissible speed 12'000 rpm
Axial play 0.05 - 0.15 mm
Radial play 0.025 mm
Max. axial load (dynamic) 5.6 N
Max. force for press fits (static) 110 N
(static, shaft supported) 1200 N
Max. radial loading 28 N, 5 mm from flange
Weight 340 g
Other Specifications
Number of pole pairs 1
Number of commutator segments 13
Direction of rotation Clockwise (CW)
Number of autoclave cycles 0
Specifications - Encoder
General information
Encoder Avago HEDS 5500 B11
Encoder type Incremental Quadrature Encoder
Counts (Lines) per turn 1000
Increments per turn 4000
Number of channels 2 (A B)
Line Driver No
Index Signal No
Max. speed 12'000 rpm
Shaft diameter 4 mm
Technical Data
Supply Voltage Vcc 5.0 V ± 10.0 %
Driver used logic TTL
Min. angular acceleration 250000 rad / s2
Output current per channel -10...5 mA
Signal rise time 180 ns
Measurement condition for signal rise time CL = 25 pF, RL = 2.7 kOhm
Signal fall time 40 ns
Measurement condition for signal fall time CL = 25 pF, RL = 2.7 kOhm
Phase shift 90 °e
Phase shift, inaccuracy 45 °e
Index synchronised to AB Yes
Max. moment of inertia of code wheel 0.6 gcm2
Operating temperature -40...+100 °C
Orientation encoder to motor defined -1.0°
I gather the encoder then wants 5v i/o = great
so do the limit switches I have !!!
which leads to
does the ess smoothstepper run 5v i/o
i.e. I need to buy another controller anyway - the other one can be used on the plasma table
so
buy that motor
buy an ess smoothstepper IF the i/o is 5v
refit the photo limit switches stock
run the drives 48v
use the same psu for the spindle
bobs your auntie
I need anotehr controller
less hassle with limit switching
up the spindle power
up the driver power
-
run it with one of these?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266078813530?hash=item3df3887d5a:g:lB4AAOSw7zpjvX-6&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0HqbphPDahPbHbHeWrfTYH8tu4UqSeg6aWbO%2FUK7TrmH7qIQS0yE%2BycgL84nvg3caIs9vVinSeimbMygz65yMsKVZHYCcmJmAoD7weMssIMo1mK6tizDPcf5fbicUkQ2vvb2Q80yxLQ0m2euI7Q886Xl722ebDsCyEVPNVbnOPyt1IIlR80PSmwc41ZKMbIcbhviN6Wrtl8VrxnhKTnEsKQcgn%2F9iNAsFlhNCuNV8kuNuilfcnyg3NUWuj73XxL0M8K5EN3%2FRTgAy5ZqEi0ywX8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_Cn67zJYQ
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kRkAAOSwTxRjvX-6/s-l1600.jpg)
-
Hi,
the two are not matched.
The photo of the motor is a brushed DC motor with an encoder fitted.
All that is required to run this motor is to hook up a DC power suppply....you don't need a driver at all. A variable voltage
supply would be nice if you want speed control, but mostly you'll run at full speed all the time. So just a power supply and a relay
to turn in on and off.
The driver you have pictured is for a brushless motor.
The drive is for a different kind of motor altogether.
What about the motor you have already got?
Did you get around to doing any of the measurements I suggested?
Craig
-
so i just put 24v to the motor and see if it works
it it does what kind of relay do i need
the two wires from the tach thing cannot be connected to mach to see on screen speed/?
-
Hi,
so i just put 24v to the motor and see if it works
YES!!! Its the simplest thing in the world to run a brushed DC motor....just hook up a power supply. Higher voltage makes it go faster, lower voltage
makes it go slower. Reverse the connection and it goes backwards. So simple.
Unless you need speed control all you want is a switch to turn in on or off. If you desperately want to have Mach turn it on or off then you need a relay.
Don't get hung up about a relay.....you've wasted enough time doing everything BUT get the bloody thing to go! Until and unless it goes then everything
else is irrelevant. Stick to getting the motor to run. The tacho generator, if that's what it is, which is still questionable, is just going for a ride, you don't need it,
so ignore it.
Craig
-
great!!
i thought i controlled the speed in mach
-
Hi,
yes you can get Mach to control the speed, Mach produces PWM which can control the speed if you have a suitable speed contoller for the spindle.
If your spindle is just a plain brushed DC motor then a variable voltage supply is enough.
Unless you need it why bother. 99% of the time you want your spindle to go flat stick....who cares if you can slow it down? If anything you want it to go
faster,more power, FASTER, FASTER!
Get get the thing going and worry about the rest later. You seem to be doing everything BUT get it going. Is there a reason?
Craig
-
have not done the limit switches yet - have not bought anything yet
rs232 style connectors en route from the chine for the sheilded wires that
don't want to cut the shielded stock cables off to wire to the drives as they have a grounding wire in them
the fatter drives are en route too.
plus the solder and heat shrink
and I have been playing with the plasma table
have connected a motor and driver to the controller and sent it code, so I do have the 8 wire motors connected correctly.
had to do the plum couplings three times
first time 6.35 to 6mm 20 by 30 couplings x3 - didn't even go into the motor mounts , so bought three 14mm 6-6.35 couplings and due to the motor mount slkits being 90 degrees off the shaft, I couldn't get the grub screw done up, so just opened up the originals by hand with wet and dry .
had to file the motors with a 4mm chain saw file , that was easy enough.
also been playing with the plasma gantry's
-
talking of limits
do i need 10mm bounce?
i am guessing i have 16mm screws 5mm pitch
just a bit more than 5mm?
cant crash the switch head on?
-
yes the spindle spins
anyways - and just so you know as i didnt
nema 23 is 56mm body
small servos - say 200w and the 5 phase motors are a 60mm body
note
you can buy 60mm step motors at 2 and 4 phase you pillock - slightly rarer to find
THEY ARE A NEMA 24
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392937680215?hash=item5b7ce92d57:g:y8cAAOSw~nFidOhl&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0O2T5W%2FpKAa8iQusy%2BzWZ3Vl4FyymHqC8OZZLWCSsvGkxMResE6t2EWKMsa5%2B7C1iGHfWukHIdSJA8uRUcv7eUgNE%2FQZMk8xOm02JnTELMTKFxueroeKCasxDwarEAnJbUQPp3cIu6Cf%2BJwTxjk9m%2Fril5%2FVCipO3lMdlUNlTpeZIwfLOs2ZRa%2BYO6ppbNyvhZ69abEFW9wOiis%2FzeWnyjrwC3N1BRemXkPSuHmQQFlUy%2FdKuGUSvKZTF05lBvsRKB6HRw41qzjo3uYKRJpD6e4%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMyNSpwcth
SO A NEMA 23 IS 2.3 INCHES 56MM
A NEMA 24 IS 2.4 INCHES WHICH IS 60MM
WHICH LEADS TO
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353923167404?hash=item526776f4ac:g:oxwAAOSwkIdiEbdD&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoMvhcuYoKwl1fzqGuoauJTqAtBv%2FnRDP38t9dyigcf9shOId8JIV21XZnS7OtzZdc8BxefLAEkToCCOGEo6yzXOyIeFTdDwRKWH6fUVAC1vgKwggC%2Flez%2FDj7vDYNN3QsrWPR5N%2BGTvK0RZfnuSk1qy1sUoojQr1n9Mi4E9WtgQHf7l59GHHnLtiVozjwmN6WGCbpfOl%2Bn4pBsG4P7mFIr8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-DnjsLLYQ
REXROTH CKK
THE MOTOR MOUNTS FOR THEM ARE 60MM OR NEMA24
WHICH IS NICE
-
Hi,
NEMA 24???...there is no such size.
NEMA23 yes, that is a size standardized by the National Electrical Manufacturers Association. This is a US based association and has no sway outside of the US.
In order to maximize sales opportunities many manufacturers', US and elsewhere, manufacture the 23 size. The '23' refers to 2.3 inches across the flats
or 58.42mm.
Other manufacturers, mainly European, Japanese and other Asian countries which are metricized have adopted a size of 60mm across the flats.
A 60mm motor does not quite fit into the hole that a 23 size motor came out of, and likewise trying to fit a 23 size motor into the hole a 60mm motor
came out of is not easy either. The bottom line is that you buy either a 23 size motor OR a 60mm motor depending on the dimensions of your machine.
60mm=2.362 inch, or with rounding becomes 24. It has become common practice to say NEMA24....when there is no official 24 size in the Nation Electrical Manufacturers
Association literature. What is actually being referred to is a 60mm motor.
If you ask a simple question, you'll get a simple answer.....questions scattered all over the spectrum less so.
Craig