Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: KatzYaakov on April 07, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
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is that option to combain mach4 with rtx64 ?
there are some very big europe brands in woodworking cnc that work with windows as real time system(it was also with windows xp )
some use RTX some use othere type
if can combain it with mach4 i think its can be big upgrade
thks
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Yes, Mach 4 works with RTX64. There is a Mach 4 plugin that runs KingStar EthernCAT Master on top of RTX64 . RTX64 and KingStar are both IntervalZero products.
Steve
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Is that need any break out board ? Or its directly from pc conect?
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EtherCAT is purely an Ethernet Topology. Each EtherCAT device (servo module or I/O module) will have two Ethernet ports, one in and one out. Each module will have discrete terminals with which to wire. So basically, with the RTX64/KINGSTAR product, you just run an Ethernet cable from your PC to your first module and daisy chain your modules from there.
(https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/EtherCAT-IO-900x600.jpg)
Steve
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So in this case need to buy only the intervalZearo product? And use any other board for the i/o ?
Can you please tell me which exactly item i need buy from interval zearo ,and after that is there any documents how conect and control the driver?
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All IntervalZero sells is the RTX64/EtherCAT master. That gets installed on your PC. For everything else, you will need to buy extra. And it will need to be EtherCAT compatible. As in, you will need to buy servo or stepper drives and any and all I/O modules. There are literally 100s from which to choose.
But again, you can't just use any I/O board that would hook to Ethernet. It HAS to be EtherCAT.
You would be wise to do a lot of research on EtherCAT before you jump headlong into it. Mainly because it can get expensive! It is the newest of the industrial technologies and thus comes with a higher price. But the prices are getting better and better. There may be some economical packages out there now. I just don't know. But doing your research will help you find the best value.
Steve
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Ahh... here we go. https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mach4-ethercat-system (https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/mach4-ethercat-system) Those are packages. One of probably many out there.
Steve
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I use leadshine 850/1000w until now with standard conection,i buy it directly from china,i asked them about Ethercat , because i want also use there absolute encoder ,and price not much different
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Hi,
you need to be a bit wary of Ethercat. The Ethercat specification and properties are public documents and manufacturers and
users alike are encouraged to adopt it. There are in effect no license fees, it is built into the cost of the half dozen or so
Ethercat slave ICs. You buy the IC....and make a new Ethercat gizmo with it and you're golden.
Various manufacturers have implemented Ethercat in slightly different ways.....and while that is not supposed to happen; it does.
Yaskawa have been in the business of Ethercat servos for years, and they along with Beckhoff are the accepted industry standard
types for servos and IO modules respectively.
You need to select suppliers of Ethercat slaves with care, some may not operate as you hoped.
There is an organisation, I forget its name, but as a commercial service it offers to test out any Ethercat device for compliance to the
published standard. The cost of doing so is not cheap, but not prohibitive either, maybe 10k. As a consequence all the good manufacturers
of Ethercat slave devices have had their devices certified by this organisation and can market their devices as 'compliant'. You should look for that
compliance.
As a side note ProfiBus and closely related ProfiNet which are broadly speaking similar to Ethercat but will prohibit you from selling any device
without being strictly compliant......and guess who does that compliance testing....they do. Their preferred method of getting the fees is to have you pull
your trousers down and bend over while they extract the funds with cruel instruments! The cost of ProfiBus and ProfiNet products tends to be
much higher than Ethercat.
I use Delta servos, Taiwanese brand made in China, good quality, performance, backup and tuning software at a reasonable price.
Their Ethercat model servo drives are compliant with the standard.
I've seen secondhand Beckhoff IO modules on Ebay at very reasonable costs....so to my way of thinking there really is no need to buy cheaper
or lesser brands when you can have the real thing.
Craig
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You mean Delta already had been test ,and can buy and use
About i,o do i must use Ethercat also?
Or i can continue use pokeys as i/o?
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Hi,
You mean Delta already had been test ,and can buy and use
Yes, Delta make srvos and drives which are Ethercat compliant. Look for a '-E' appending the drive
model.
About i,o do i must use Ethercat also?
Or i can continue use pokeys as i/o?
No, you must use Ethercat compliant IO modules. There is no place to hook a PoKeys in an Ethercat setup. You don't need or even
want a PoKeys in an Ethercat setup.
As Steve has pointed out there is a Ethernet cable plugged into you PC which connects to the first slave, be it a servo or IO module, and
another Ethernet cable to the next Ethercat slave in a daisy chain until the last Ethercat slave in the queue is connected back to the PC
with yet another Ethernet cable. All of the slave devices (servos, IO modules or your own home brew Ethercat slave) are in a ethernet ring.
No room for a PoKeys device in such a ring!
There is a great deal of information about Ethercat out there....you need to read it. Ethercat is great, and in certain industrial situations
has many advantages......but could be a costly excerise if you don't do your homework.
Craig
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craig as always thanks alot(i think after so many talking we must arrange some meeting)
i want use chines brand ,its call VEICH they said they have exactly same options as yaskawa
now i have there pdf if you want i can send you
also intervalZearo contact me they said they able to try this servo
i don't know now nothing about princess(you know at the end its also price important)
did you also use that ?
do you know something about the prices?
one thing i forget ask ,is this plugin its also for hobby or only industrial
thnks
yaakov
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Hi,
if you think that going the Ethercat route is cheap....then I think you are in for a rude awakening. If you think you can buy cheap
Chinese stuff and get it to work I think you are going to waste some serious money.
The whole point of Ethercat is a QUALITY CNC solution....and you don't achieve a QUALITY result by using cheap junky servos and IO modules.
You'd be better off sticking to PoKeys and Leasdshine.
one thing i forget ask ,is this plugin its also for hobby or only industrial
I'm not 100% sure but I think either.
Ethercat is a realtime bus communication protocol....it does not have any 'affinity' with any given software. Kingstar is the provider of the
Ethercat/Mach4 plugin. The question is best posed to them.
My understanding is that you buy a Kingstar license and that includes the Interval Zero runtime license. Smurph has previously recommended
that it be installed on a capable PC, probably an i5 or i7 with generous RAM etc.
Ethercat can have up to 100 slave devices. This makes it very attractive in manufacturing situations where you may have several machines
with conveyors and/or robots between each. All the wiring and cabling reduces to a pair of ethernet cables between slave devices.
There was a time when it was not legally permissable to run safety data (things like Estops, door interlocks etc) over an Ethercat bus, or
in fact any bus. Thus all that safety cabling had to be run manually which rather detracted from the lean and elegant Ethercat cabling scenario.
My understanding is that Ethercat has matured to the point that government safety regulators permit safety data be transmitted over
Ethercat. There are Ethercat slave devices which are designed and approved for use as safety devices....you'll recognise them by virtue of costing
five times as much!
Ethercat was always intended to be used in industrial situations where the bus communication and distributed motion control strategy represents
a distinct advantage which overcomes the cost premium. For a standalone machine of two/three/four/five axes and spindle only the Ethercat
is an costly solution compared to a centralised motion control board like a PoKeys ad standard servos.
You really need to do some serious research and establish a business case for Ethercat......its going to cost more than usual.....how much more
is the question.
Craig
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steve
if we use kingstar plagin ,is it also control the I/O like the pokeys plugin ,or need other way?
do i limit to specific I/O device ,or any EtherCat I/O device can use?
what about the inverter ,if i want also use by modbus ,is can it work also ? or all must use the Ethercat?
thanks
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You can use the KINGSTAR plugin on one Ethernet card. That will be your EtherCAT network. All EtherCAT devices will be driven from this card. Then you can have a second Ethernet card to run other Ethernet devices like a PoKeys or a Galil RIO, etc... This can be used to provide I/O for panel switches/buttons and other no-realtime inputs or outputs (panel LED indicators, etc..)
The important thing to note is that you cannot then wire a probe to the Pokeys and expect the KINGSTAR plugin to see the probe signals. The same goes for any real-time switch like a limit or a home. Most EtherCAT servo modules have some general purpose I/O on them that could be used for things like a probe/limit/home. But you would need to look VERY carefully at your proposed device list to make sure. Otherwise, you would need to buy some sort of EtherCAT I/O device.
Steve
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Hi,
all decent Ethercat servo drives have at least three digital inputs, two for pos and neg limits and one for home.
An Ethercat servo is responsible for it own slice of motion control and must therefore be at least able to handle its own limits
and home switch.
If you need realtime inputs beyond what is provided in each of the servo drives then you have to use an Ethercat IO module.
This is an example of Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Beckhoff-EK1120-EtherCAT-Bus-Coupler-Module-New-Out-of-Box/274107416790?hash=item3fd21340d6:g:9fsAAOSwrAxd1qQ~ (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Beckhoff-EK1120-EtherCAT-Bus-Coupler-Module-New-Out-of-Box/274107416790?hash=item3fd21340d6:g:9fsAAOSwrAxd1qQ~)
It's new and for $129 not to bad a price, and note it is Beckhoff.
Craig