Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: GOOMBA on February 17, 2021, 10:26:29 AM
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Hey guys,
Alright so MACH4 build 4612 is up as of right now. With this new build we have new screens and some changed GUI. That's the biggest part, however we've added things like the shuttle mode for the mouse MPG, and the Xbox controller plugin (thanks again Daz). So now that this is out there, I'd like this thread to be a place where issues with the build are addressed. Not motion controller plugin issues, or any other plugin related issues. Just raw profile and screen issues.
Suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Let me know what you guys find :)
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OK, let me be the first, even though I haven't installed it. I, and likely a lot of others, have "slightly" modified screen sets. I know I likely have 40 or 50 small adds/modifications to WX4. I never actually documented all this (I know, I know!). When I install Mach4, I copy my screen in, along with profiles/plugins/macros, etc. If something interesting is in the "new screens", somehow I have to figure out all the edits I've made and do them all over, right? Any easy way to do that? I think Brett told me one time that there was a way to compare two screen sets, but I've seemingly forgotten THAT!! Maybe with NotePad++?
Thanks!
Tom
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I think I know what you're looking for.
To compare both of the screens you can take both files and dump them on your desktop. Then change the file extension from a .set to a .zip.
Once you do this you can open the zip and see the screen XML, edit it in notepad ++ or whatever you'd like. I know notepad ++ has a plugin you can download to compare two documents. If you just have custom buttons and screen elements you can export the control group and then import on the new screen too.
If you want some help with this just email support@machsupport.com and we'll help you along.
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I don't want to hijack this thread TOO far, but "export the control group" sounds interesting. Exactly HOW do I "export the control group"? I have to go to the machine and think about this.
And I now DO remember there is a Notepad++ plugin for file compare. Need to fiddle with that, too, as in, what two files to actually compare:)
Thanks again,
Tom
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First, thanks for everyone's work getting this tested and released! Looking forward to using it soon. Any chance we could get updated API docs? :D
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Alright,
Tom go to Operator > Edit Screen
Then click the control group you want to export, then right click export.
Jbuehn, do you mean the API.h document with the RC codes or the regular Lua / C API?
I don't believe a ton has changed in either of these documents but I can check with the guys that compile it and get back to you.
Let me know which DOC you're referring to.
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The Lua / C API. Mach4CoreAPI that's in the Mach4Hobby/docs folder. Thanks!
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No time to work with it yet but the new screens look good.
Thanks for adding the diagnostics page to Lathe.
However...you still have the Xdro in lathe as read only!
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Mill version: Most of the wizards come fail with: "Lua: Syntax error during pre-compilation"
"...version mismatch in pre-compiled chunk."
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Jbuhen, Attached is the API.h doc that you're requesting I believe. I'll ask the devs if they've made any updates , what are you looking for updates on? Pound Vars?
rhtuttle, send us a ticket at support@machsupport.com and I'll take a look at the Lua errors.
I'll note the DRO for next release and make sure it's fixed!
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Yup, that helps! I was mainly looking to see what new API calls had been added in recently, and what they do.
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Hello
In the new wx4 screen set I can't find where you can set your spindle speed range. Could that be added to the spindle control panel please?
Thanks
Steve
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In the "OLD" wx4 it was on the Diagnostics page. No longer there? I added it to my "OLD" wx4 main page long ago, and you can do the same if you like. I don't really like the darkened "NEW" wx4 so I only glanced at it and went back to my modified "OLD" wx4!!
Tom
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I can't find it anywhere in any of the pages on the new screen. It should be with the spindle start and stop buttons if you ask me - I need to set the range every time I use Mach 4.
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I have mine by the spindle start/stop buttons!! It's easy to do, look at the button on the diagnostics page, in the screen editor, IF it's there, and just duplicate it in a new spot on the main page near the spindle controls. I added that and a box to show the top speed of the selected range (was pulley in Mach3!). I have a step pulley Bridgeport clone, so 9 ranges for me, 4 of them reverse.
If all else fails and there is no RANGE selector in the new wx4 screen, go get it from the old wx4 and create it in the new wx4, assuming you LIKE the new wx4 dark look!!
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Well, I fired up 4612 and I can't find how to change "RANGE" either, it's nowhere I could find it.
I'll attach some screenies of how I have mine, in a modified version of old wx4. Remember, if you're using wx4 stock, if you make changes, rename the wx4 to something of your choosing or it'll overwrite on a new install.
One shows mine
Two shows where it is in stock OLD wx4, which you likely know
Three shows my button setting for the main page Range setting.
OH, and the yellow box is where I can manually enter a spindle speed!!
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The Lathe screen set has it on the main page. Steal it from there.
RT
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Thanks for the suggestions - I have been copying it for years as you have said. This forum was supposed to be for feedback and that was all I was doing here. Just saying it would be good if it could be a standard inclusion.
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Right you are. Sorry I didn't pick up on it.
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I'm using this with my own modified screen set, so I can't comment on that.
However, there is a bug in the single stepping that's changed the behaviour. It starts off correctly, starting the spindle when I execute that block, and it goes on through comments and tool changes as expeced (I don't use tool changes, it just skips them) However, when it comes to execute the first move, nothing happens except that it skips the block on the screen. When I single step again, it then executed the previous block and remains out of sync by one block from then on.
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I'm not certain, but I think that single step behavior may have been around a while. I am currently on 4336 and I think it's there. I quit using single step because of it, didn't realize it got a step behind, I thought it STOPPED. I figured it was because I use a macro, M43, for G43 tool length offset, and it couldn't step thru the macro, but maybe that isn't it. Brian HAS mentioned that single step is a bear to get right inside Mach4!!
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One Major gripe im having with this any older Mach4 screensets is that Gcode extends are shown in machine coordinates and not in offset coordinates, i typically used viewing extends in Mach3 to check if i made any major errors in the gcode but now i would have to sit down with a calculator and work out if I hit anything in my G54. A modifier button to display extends in the working offset would be really welcome !
And maybe its my fault but where can i set up a start / end Gcode position ? I used to quickly set that in mach 3 with Safe Z depending on the work i was doing and it was really convenient.
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I have updated my industrial ver to the release ver can you tell me the date for the 4 axis default screen set
thanks in advance
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I'm not certain, but I think that single step behavior may have been around a while. I am currently on 4336 and I think it's there. I quit using single step because of it, didn't realize it got a step behind, I thought it STOPPED. I figured it was because I use a macro, M43, for G43 tool length offset, and it couldn't step thru the macro, but maybe that isn't it. Brian HAS mentioned that single step is a bear to get right inside Mach4!!
Who knows, it's not acceptable though. This is a fundamental function that needs to work!
Here's a trivial program that shows this behaviour and worse. Can someone at Mach do something about this please.
I thought I saw this jump when it executed the first line, so I took a note of the DROs
This is what they read prior to executing the first block...
X19.5989 Y16.6904
And this is what they read afterwards!
X19.4465 Y16.6683
This should have gone to X4.5 Y14.500 in the G01 block.
If you continue single stepping, it then stays one block out of sync until it executes the M5M30 when the displayed current line can't make up its mind what block it's on. Hardly surprising really since it's actually beyond the end of the program.
G01 X4.5 Y14.500 F1000
G01 X-11.5 Y-14.500
M5M30
Clearly something is very wrong here.
Note, I'm using backlash compensation, so maybe that has some bearing on it? Either way, it's not right and it doesn't give me any confidence it's going to go where it's told to.
Doesn't anyone test this before being released?
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Are you using a profile from a previous build by chance?
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Yes, I thought the idea was that profiles were transferrable between builds? Surely the behaviour of Mach is in the core software?
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Be aware, that you may need to update the Motion Control Plugin as well, for them to work correctly.
If you use the ESS then it needs to be Build 260 or higher.
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I upgraded to ESS V270 from when I changed from Mach 4 V4.2.0.3804 ESS V231, so I have both of the latest builds and now have this new problem which I didn't have before.
My guess is something changed in the Mach4 code between these two releases that messed up the single stepping.
Note, I've been using backlash compensation happily with the old versions, so it shoudn't be anything to do with that. I just mention it for completeness since I know a lot of people don't use it.
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272 is the latest compiled against 2612
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Here's hoping old profiles aren't the cause! If not, I don't know.......hope there's a nice way to get all the stuff out of an old profile in order to hand enter it all into a new profile. And don't tell me I should have documented it all along the way, I KNOW that, but didn't do it. Remember the old Mach Profile for Mach3 by Klaus? That spoiled me but I don't have THAT to extract an old profile. Unless, of course, there IS a way to get everything out of a profile?
Tom
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272 is the latest compiled against 2612
I checked which was the recommended ESS version a couple of days ago, and it stated V270, the other one was still under test.
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Here's hoping old profiles aren't the cause! If not, I don't know.......hope there's a nice way to get all the stuff out of an old profile in order to hand enter it all into a new profile. And don't tell me I should have documented it all along the way, I KNOW that, but didn't do it. Remember the old Mach Profile for Mach3 by Klaus? That spoiled me but I don't have THAT to extract an old profile. Unless, of course, there IS a way to get everything out of a profile?
Tom
You can definitely access a text copy of the lua script (I think it's called that). If you can get a copy of the old and new scripts, you can use Examdiff to show you all of the differences.
I'm pretty sure that all of the core behaviour, such as Single Stepping, will be hard coded in the executable. I stand to be corrected, but you don't want fundamental behaviour compromised by things user do to personalise Mach 4, else chaos can ensue.
If these things are scripted, how are you supposed to upgrade? The whole point of being able to personalise something is that you keep it that way. These things should be able to be carried over when you upgrade.
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Only just had time to check this function out on my machine, after updating the other week.
The Single Block works as expected, without any problems. BUT I am using the Default WX4 screen set, albeit with added MPG and Drive Fault Alarm scripts.
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I boldly upgraded to Mach4 4612 from 4336, ESS plugin 272 from 250. Everything seems to work, including single block.
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Hey guys,
I've been out for a week or so so I hadn't been keeping up with the thread but I'm trying to catch up now.
4612 single block works for me as expected. We do our best to make sure profiles transfer perfectly but some changes in how the .ini file is built, as well as some other minor changes over iterations of MACH4 makes it hard to guarantee perfection. However this seems to work fine for me.
I transfer profiles from build to build constantly and don't run into issues often.
If you have a specific issue you'd like addressed (concerning the 4612 build) just write it here so it's known and then we can continue to address it via the support site.
support@machsupport.com is where you should be going to address the specifics.
If you're still are having issues please reply to this and I'll do my best to keep up with the reports.
As always, thank you all for your feedback it's helps more than you know :)
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Just a reminder that there is still a bug in the Configuration that defaults back to Imperial measurements when you exit. This is dangerous since things like single stepping moves 25.4 times more than you expect!
At the moment you have to remember to exit Mach and restart every time you change anything in the config else you can get caught out and crash the machine. This really needs addresssing in my opinion.
Why does it override the setting in the Config anyway? That makes no sense.
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Hello Striplar,
I don't have the same results if you're referring to the
Configure > Control > Defaults > Machine Setup Units
If I set Inch, it remains in Inch after restart, same for Metric.
My G20 or G21 on startup also changes depending on the units I have selected.
If you're not having the same results I'd suggest making a new profile from scratch, if that doesn't work send me your profile and I'll take a look.
As for settings not being retained unless a restart occurs, I advise you restart after every configuration change. This way the setting is written to the .ini file.
If you're switching from Imperial to Metric often I'd advise you make two profiles, or if you switch at all really. It's super easy to swap that setting once and then name the profile accordingly. If you want some help doing this email support@machsupport.com and someone will give you a hand.
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You already have my profile that exhibits this problem. It was the same with the 3804 build.
It's not about restarting Mach, it's when you exit config and then re-enable the drives without exiting Mach.
If you change say the backlash compensation value when you're in Metric, then exit, enable the drive and step 1mm, it will step 1". It does it for other things too, but I know this definitely is wrong because I've adjusted the backlash values in the last couple of days and it happened then.
I'm only using Metric, never Imperial. That's what makes it dangerous, you don't expect it to change from Metric when you exit the config. It really shouldn't do that. There must be something in the code that defaults to Imperial somewhere on exit, or when you edit the values.
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I've also noticed that Mach4 no longer instantly responds to the Stop button. It takes a full second before anything happens. This needs looking into because when you want it to stop, you want it to stop now, not some time later. Hitting the emergency stop button loses position, so I try to avoid using that unless absolutely necessary.
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Striplar,
I don't see your profile anywhere attached... Maybe I'm blind? Could you attach it again please :)
Also the Stop button works as expected for me in build 4612, what controller are you using?
When using the STOP button you should really treat it as an ESTOP... It's not something you should be doing all the time.
If you're looking for a feed hold button then put one on screen.
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No problem, here it is again. I had to rename it because the system says it already has a file of that name.
I'm using V270 for the ESS. Everything worked fine with Mach 4 V4.2.0.3804 ESS V231 but this problem and the issue with the Single Step being out of sync have been introduced by this version.
I have both feed hold and stop on the control panel. I believe the Hold also is slow to react with this version but I'll have to check.
I don't understand why the profile I'm using shows these issues. Surely this fundamental behaviour is controlled by the core software, not by the profile?
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I've also noticed that when I interrupt a program using the Stop button and then go to zero the DRO, the DRO doesn't clear until I disable the servos and re-enable them again.
I've just checked this, and it happens every time. If I don't disable the drive, the DRO clear doesn't work, but the jogs do. They appear to be correct, as if the clear button wasn't pressed. However, when the drive is disabled, the DRO jumps as if it was retrospectively applying the zero.
So it looks like the DRO does actually get cleared, but the display doesn't reflect that until the drives are disabled.
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Having had so many issues with my existing profile and this latest build, I thought I'd better try it with the supplied default Mach4Mill profile.
I've set up all of the configurations in Mach4 and the ESS but it comes up with the following error when I go to edit the ESS plugin...
Warning! Not connected to the ESS board
I'm running the following...
Mach4 V4.2.0.4612 ESS V270 won't connect to the ESS
I know the ESS works because I can switch back to my original profile and it does connect, so this is clearly not a hardware issue.
Just a few things worth noting because they may have some bearing on the issue.
1) Ever since I've used Mach4, regardless of the previous version and the version of the plugin, I've noticed that sometimes the splash screen for the ESS comes up, immediately followed by Mach4 exiting. Sometimes this happens two or three times before Mach4 starts properely and loads the screen.
2) That doesn't happen with this latest build. The Warp V270 spash screen flashes up and it always completes the boot. However, the control doesn't enable, so it doesn't look like the ESS is communicating, even though there's no error message.
3) It's only when you go to explicitly configure the plugin that it tells you that it's not connected.
So my guess is that right at the very start of the boot process of Mach4, there's an attempt to connect to the plugin, and that fails, even though it doesn't say so.
I notice that there's definitely a longer pause of about 6 seconds when the Warp V270 spash screen shows when it's loading my original profile.
When I boot it with the default profile, the Warp V270 spash screen only shows for about 2 seconds, so something is clearly very different about what's happening when it starts up.
Any ideas, because at the moment it's unusable with the default profile because it's clearly not connecting to the ESS
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please dont shoot me
you have deselected the sim and enabled the ess in mach4 config. right
you have run the setup program from warp9td site to configure the ethernet and check to see if it runs
you have run the advanced part of the above to configure the firewall act of the pc
yes I have run into that trap when having to rebuild a config
apologies if you have done the above
but IMHO this is looking like a pc problem not mach4 or ESS
what I do is use GPedit and strip out all I do not need , prevent any updates , prevent any sleep of anything ( usb disk (ssd/hhd) , processor and mem
my pc Mill controller has no internet , no other programs just enough to run Mach4 nothing else
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Many thanks for all of that advice, I'll check through it all. I just assumed that if one profile worked and another doesn't, it was a problem with the profile that didn't. I don't know what any profile contains or how one differs from another.
Nothing else is different on the PC, I just select a different profile from the loader. One connects to the ESS, the other doesn't.
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Ok, just to check the suggestions off point by point...
I hadn't realised the the ESS had to be selected in the Select Motion Device, that's fixed it.
The ESS is ticked as enabled in the Mach4 config plugins tab
The ESS plugin appears in the Configure>Plugins dropdown list
When I click on it is when I get the dialog box saying there's no connection.
I've run the Warp9Tech Design - SCU application and applied the defaults from File>Windows performance tuning.
Many thanks for your help
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Ok
"When I click on it is when I get the dialog box saying there's no connection."
I have had this when the ESS was not powered
so the ESS and SCU talk correctly therefore at this point the ESS and the pc are talking
you have powered down and power back up
your mill and the ESS are powered up at this point then the pc
sorry if my replies are a bit stilted I suffer from Dyslexia therefor I have difficulty in getting things down
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You were right about the Simulator, the machine now does talk to the ESS.
However, there's still a problem, albeit a different one.
Now I'm finding that the machine won't move smoothly, it keeps pausing during the moves. I've enabled the warning if the 'Show Sotware Velocity FIFO Ran Dry Msgs'.
I've just run a trivial program to mover between two points after starting the spindle. It paused 8 times during those moves. When it finished, it reported 3 errors which makes no sense.
If I click Cycle Start and then immediately stop it before any moves at all, it reported 4 errors. I don't think this reporting feature works.
Another bizarre thing, is that when I go back to my original profile, that now single steps correctly! In other words, it was always one step behind before, and now, having run this new profile, it single steps and stays in synch!!! Something clearly gets saved in a common area that's shared between profiles that's changed the behaviour. It's very odd.
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Ok, it looks like the hardware buffer needed to be longer in the ESS. The default isn't enough for the very high resolution that I'm running. It's odd that it didn't warn that there was an issue. Clearly the buffer ran dry, but it didn't report it, even though the reporting is on.
Anyway, this profile does seem to work without crashing on exit unlike the old profile. I guess I'll just have to bit the bullet and make all those changes to the screen design that I laboriously had to do on the old profile.
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thanks for the update
if I can only give you a couple of thoughts
copy the entire mach4 directory to say a usb stick
make one change to the setup and test dont go hog wild and change a lot at once its tempting I know believe me
made my day to have offered a bit of knowledge and moved you forward .
my mill is a small 4 axis job ( all cast iron though) trouble with it it had a Far Eastern controller on mach3 well the controller went south , so I elected to go the Mach4 ESS route , now no drawings and all wires blue and no lables 🤯 9 limits etc. took a while to do the knitting but is works ok ,so my knowledge is from the sorting of my own problem , but I was a fully qualified sparks in industrial equipment no drawings was the norm machines to old ( that sounds good as I have not been in work for 24 years now ) but keep the remaining brain cell active with the workshop /cad cam for miniature steam engines
stay safe and be safe
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I know what you mean about not having anything useful to work from. I converted my decent sized Denford Mill in 2008 and it's done amazing work.
However, Mach is flaky in my opinion. When you get something that works, don't touch anything. Updrading to the latest build of Mach4 is proving to be a nightmare. Basic things you'd think were set in stone, such as Single Stepping have been messed up. The bizarre thing is that it momentarily worked correctly, and now it's gone back to being wrong.
Anyway, this is what I've done to get it to this imperfect but just usable state...
1) Set up my I/O and configuration from scratch in the new default Mach4Mill profile.
2) Copied the profile to make a new version I can experiment with
3) Installed my screen set
4) Checked to see what works and what doesn't
The results are as follows...
1) Single Stepping is still wrong, it lags behind the actual moves by one step. However, if I go back to the Mach4Mill default profile it works correctly, however there is a definite lag between the digits changing on the DRO and the table moving, and I've not noticed that before.
2) It no longer throws an error report on exiting Mach4
3) It no longer loses the input pin configurations for the limit switches and e-stop
4) Mach4 doesn't seem to crash after showing the Warp V270 splash screen which it's always done.
5) Jogging the A-Axis is almost right now, but not quite. There's still a rounding error in Mach4 that means if you have precisely 1 output step when you click the jog for that amount, it doesn't ouput a step. Instead, it ignores the first step and then outputs two the next time.
In other words, my 4-th axis has 100 Counts per unit and if I jog it using the 0.01 increment, it only increments by 0.02 after I've jogged twice.
Clearly this situation is going to be the same if it's any other axis, so this needs looking into.
I need to make another point about Mach4 that is in direct contradition to everything I've ever read. And that's about dedicating a computer to Mach4. This is utter nonsense, you absolutely DON'T need to do that if you have an ESS. I've been running this way for over 5 years with both Mach3 and Mach4 and have NEVER had an issue.
I stream music, post process huge path files, and browse the internet completely at will. I create complex 3D models and watch YouTube. This is a non issue, despite what you're told. Maybe if you're using a Parallel Port then it's a problem, but as soon as you're using an ESS then it isn't. It's just another process that Windows 10 is perfectly capable of handling. I'm running a 3GHz quad core with 8GB of memory, so it's hardly an amazing computer.
It's massively more convenient to have all of the files you generate on the same PC, with the same screen used for showing Drawings, entertainment and running the machine. I guess nobody tries this because they're scared off by the bad advice.
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thanks for the update
jogging updates you say I jog 0.01no movement but when I jog 0.01 x2 it moves 0.02 ( mm I think ) I suspect that the resolution of your stepper motor ( sorry I assume )if that's what you use is to course and the cannot resolve the small movement
glad things are a bit better
as to the pc if it works for you all well and good use it that way , as for me I will stick to what works for me
one question if I may be so bold is in previous comments you mention " pressing the stop button and or single step button" I take it these are actual buttons on a control panel not icons on the screen
if they are are they scripted in Lua in the screen or PMC ladder , if its in the screen set there maybe some lag when it processes your input
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g31 now will not execute, getting: Capping Z Minimum to 0.0000 based on parameter 1801. I have changed #1801 to -2.000
g91 g31 z1 f2 works
but g91 g31 z-1 f2 gives the above error message.
TIA
RT
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I have AC Servos, not stepper motors, and they respond to every pulse. I'll double check tomorrow, but I'm sure Mach4 isn't outputting individual pulses, else it would increment the count by 0.01 each time I click the jog button right? It makes no sense that the DRO would output every other pulse. I think it's a software rounding issue.
What works for my PC will work for everyone with an ESS and a half decent computer. Don't let the fear factory dictate what system you can have. It works, so why not take advantage of multi tasking your PC?
You're quite right, these are on screen buttons clicked with the mouse.
So the main outstanding problem I have is with Single Stepping. This behaved briefly but now it's back to lagging the moves by one step. In other words, everything executes as expected until the moment it's supposed to make the first physical move. The system fails to move when the block is executed, or does some random tiny move. When Cycle Start is pressed again (on screen button) the previous block finally gets executed. This continues until the last block where it's confused because it's reached the end of the program as far as the highlighted block is concerned, but it hasn't gone there yet. Executing the last block causes it to go to the position but also executed the M5M30. The highlighed block skips back when it does this as it tries to get back in sync.
Someone else has commented that this is a problem that they just live with, but that's crazy. It worked just fine for years with Mach 4 V4.2.0.3804 ESS V231, so something has been messed up somewhere inbetween.
It looks to me like some other process is being executed when the first commanded move takes place, causing the change in the DROs. I have no idea what this move is, it doesn't equate to the backlash compensation values.
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g31 now will not execute, getting: Capping Z Minimum to 0.0000 based on parameter 1801. I have changed #1801 to -2.000
g91 g31 z1 f2 works
but g91 g31 z-1 f2 gives the above error message.
TIA
RT
Tested this with pokeys57cnc and Sim. With old and new wx4 screen sets. Same results. What does the error message indicate?
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Ok, this has nothing to do with g31. Went to surface a block with incremental (g91) moves and got the same message. There is a setting somewhere that this new build has defaulted to.
g0x0y0
m98 p1234 L1
m30
o1234
g91
g1 f5 z-.005
g1 f15 x-5
g1 f5 z-.005
g1 f15 x5
g90
m99
RT
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Very strange behavior. Changed the tool length for tool1 from 0 to 1. Ran fine. Changed it to .25, ran as expected. Changed it to .001. ran as expected. Changed it back to 0 and it ran as expected. Since no tool had been defined is the tool table empty?
RT
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Tracked this down to something within the profile I am using. I have a laptop that I use for development and another one for actual cutting. If I start with a clean profile it runs as expected. This profile was from a previous build and has few screen modifications. I assumed that you could continue to use your old profiles. When I packaged the cutting machines profile and put on the laptop it would not work there either so somewhere there is a missing setting or a bad setting. Soft limits are not enabled but it wont let the z axis below zero. I have no idea how to tracking it down.
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FWIW, in this profile there is a file called parameters.ini. In it there is an entry for 1801 -
[1801]
Desc=OEM parameter 1801
Type=2
Value=0
If I change it to NIL all is well.
I have know idea how or when this gets changed. Wizard/Post Processor? Anyone know?
RT
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I have AC Servos, not stepper motors, and they respond to every pulse. I'll double check tomorrow, but I'm sure Mach4 isn't outputting individual pulses, else it would increment the count by 0.01 each time I click the jog button right? It makes no sense that the DRO would output every other pulse. I think it's a software rounding issue.
So the main outstanding problem I have is with Single Stepping. This behaved briefly but now it's back to lagging the moves by one step. In other words, everything executes as expected until the moment it's supposed to make the first physical move. The system fails to move when the block is executed, or does some random tiny move. When Cycle Start is pressed again (on screen button) the previous block finally gets executed. This continues until the last block where it's confused because it's reached the end of the program as far as the highlighted block is concerned, but it hasn't gone there yet. Executing the last block causes it to go to the position but also executed the M5M30. The highlighed block skips back when it does this as it tries to get back in sync.
Someone else has commented that this is a problem that they just live with, but that's crazy. It worked just fine for years with Mach 4 V4.2.0.3804 ESS V231, so something has been messed up somewhere inbetween.
It looks to me like some other process is being executed when the first commanded move takes place, causing the change in the DROs. I have no idea what this move is, it doesn't equate to the backlash compensation values.
On this first point, I've just checked and the single jog move of 0.01 when the steps/unit is 100 doesn't output each individual step. I know this because my AC Servo amplifiers have a digital readout on them that shows the counts received. That shows zero when I jog the first time, and then instantly two when the next step is made. So it follows the DRO, which is exactly what you would expect.
On the more important issue of the Single Stepping being one step behind, and showing troubling behaviour on the first step that's being ignored, I've attached the screen set that I'm working with.
The bizarre thing is that this morning, it's behaving itself! I have no idea what's going on, but there's definitely something flaky in the code. I'll see if I can put my finger on it when I see this being wrong again, which it surely will be.
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Just one other thing... Am I alone in hating the new multiple line MDI? Losing the simple functionality of the one line MDI we had in Mach3 drove me nuts, so with a little help from Daz the Gas I've got that back on my Mach4 screen. I never use the other one. If I've got something that needs a few lines, I use a trivial program I call 'A temporary program' and edit that to what I need. If it's useful for other things, I save it a something else. I really don't see the point in this MDI as it is, it's a step backwards in my opinion. I use the single line MDI every single time I run the machine. I have no idea why this was dropped.
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sorry but I like the multiple lines in MDI window
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An update on the single stepping issue. I've experimented with this and I think it's associated with the backlash compensation.
Please can someone try this...
1) Use the default profie and add backlash compensation of say 0.01mm and enable it in the ESS.
2) Make sure it's using Metric mode
3) Write the following program...
G01 X0.06 F100
G01 X-0.06
M5M30
4) Now enable the drive and clear the X DRO
5) Single step this repeatedly and watch what happens to the DRO and also which lines are highlighted.
Hopefully this will show the same bizarre behaviour I'm seeing. The wrong block is displayed most of the time, and the DRO changes to seemingly random values in some of the steps.
If you're not seeing this, then try it with my attached screen set. Something really screwy is going on.
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sorry but I like the multiple lines in MDI window
Fair enough, it's just not as direct as the Mach3 one where you can just type what you like and get an instant response when you hit enter. That's much more useufl in my opinion than the way it works in the new version. This is how I use it all the time. How do you use it?
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Well, all I can say on the multi-line MDI is that was on the wish list from Mach3. We took all of the Mach 3 "wishes" and put them into Mach 4. Well, as many as we could. So what does that say? Not everyone likes the same thing! LOL What a shocker. Anyway, to most VERY cool thing about Mach 4 is you can make it work any way you wan it to.
Steve
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Well, all I can say on the multi-line MDI is that was on the wish list from Mach3. We took all of the Mach 3 "wishes" and put them into Mach 4. Well, as many as we could. So what does that say? Not everyone likes the same thing! LOL What a shocker. Anyway, to most VERY cool thing about Mach 4 is you can make it work any way you wan it to.
Steve
The problem with the multi line MDI is that it removes two key elements of the funtionality of the single line MDI, those being the immediate one time response to a command when you hit Return, and the clearing of the input ready for the next one. Doubtless some find a multi line MDI useful, I've left it in my screen set, but I've never had occasion to use it.
I use the single line MDI all the time. M3S500<cr>, to run up the spindle, S1000<cr> to change it. X-50<cr> to move the table. It's just so convenient. I imagine there are loads of users who've never had that convenience, so they don't know what they're missing.
Indeed, the best thing about MACH4 is that you can change it, and that's a game changer because it was so hard to do in MACH3.
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Going from Mach3 to Mach4, the multi line MDI is awesome! I understand where you're coming from for convivence; but that's about it, a simple convenience. That IMHO doesn't outweigh the fact that I can now go to the machine and set a quick multi line MDI command and run a small job or have a small fix without having to go into CAM or the Turning Wizards if I'm on the lathe. But I do feel like this is getting off the main topic of the thread. Build 4612.
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Going from Mach3 to Mach4, the multi line MDI is awesome! I understand where you're coming from for convivence; but that's about it, a simple convenience. That IMHO doesn't outweigh the fact that I can now go to the machine and set a quick multi line MDI command and run a small job or have a small fix without having to go into CAM or the Turning Wizards if I'm on the lathe. But I do feel like this is getting off the main topic of the thread. Build 4612.
You can have both, you don't have to do without the old one. It would have been far better to have added a multi line one and left the old one since it was so useful. It takes very little room on the screen. Alternatively, the multi line one could just have a radio button that switches the functionality from single to multi line. Either would be better than what the default is now.
I don't know why you would use CAM or Turning Wizards when you can just type a few lines of G-code in a .nc temporary file. That's basically all you're doing when you use the multiple line MDI.
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Love the multi-mdi! Don't have to:
Load file
edit file
save
close
edit file
save
close
edit file
save
close
Like you said, you can have both!
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Love the multi-mdi! Don't have to:
Load file
edit file
save
close
edit file
save
close
edit file
save
close
Like you said, you can have both!
That's a bizarre assessment of what I do. I load my Temp.nc, do the changes and exit. Job done. Run it as a normal program. If I think it might be useful, save it as something else.
As I said, I have the multi line MDI as well as my single line MDI, and I never use it. Why, because it's no easier or more convenient than using a temporary file which allows me to use the full suite of editing facilities.
I'm not against the idea of an MDI being able to use multiple lines, but on it's own, it's not convenient for all the single line commands.
Having to select the tab, clear any previous command then click the Cycle Start is not as convenient as typing on a line that's always available and then hitting Return. That's a fact, whether you like it or not, and this is what I bet you do more than anything else with the MDI
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Hi there! I am running Mach4 configuration by AVID and the config I have downloaded from them is not the latest 4612 build....I am curious, is there a way to keep their config but also get the lastest build? Or am I at the mercy of AVID to download and release a new version of their config (assuming I still want to use their config of course)?
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Hello M2lumber,
message support@machsupport.com or make a ticket here:
http://support.machsupport.com/en/new-ticket
Someone will help you out.
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I've just been experimenting with the Inch/Metric settings because I've had some close shaves after going into Configuration and finding that the Jog was in Inches rather than Metric.
That's revealed the following bug...
1) Go into Configure->Control
2) Make sure the Machine Setup Units and Units Mode are both set to Metric
3) Set the Jog Units Mode to Metric
4) Exit Mach4 and restart.
5) Go to Jog 1mm... it will move 25.4mm
I wondered if the Radio buttons in the Jog Units Mode dialog box were reversed, but that's not the case. Inches works as Inches, but so does Metric.
The only way to get Metric Jog increments is to select Follow Units Mode.
To be honest, I have no idea why you would want to jog in Inches when in Metric mode or vice versa. What's the logic behind even having these options. Anyway, either way, if it exists as an option, it ought to work. Anyone setting a machine up to be exclusively Metric can have an accident when it moves 25.4 times further than they expect it to.
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We recommend that you make two profiles.
One for Imperial, the other Metric. You should never need to change the native units of a profile for a job as you have to readjust the motor tuning parameters also.
We make this easy by allowing you to copy a profile via the MACH4 loader :)
I will look into the jogging issue though.
I do know with 4612 if you're in inches, toggle the incremental mode to .001 for instance then restart the control.
The control will open back up displaying .001 but will actually move 1"
It's something that is noted and will be fixed in the next release.
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We recommend that you make two profiles.
One for Imperial, the other Metric. You should never need to change the native units of a profile for a job as you have to readjust the motor tuning parameters also.
We make this easy by allowing you to copy a profile via the MACH4 loader :)
I will look into the jogging issue though.
I do know with 4612 if you're in inches, toggle the incremental mode to .001 for instance then restart the control.
The control will open back up displaying .001 but will actually move 1"
It's something that is noted and will be fixed in the next release.
Thanks for that. I'll never use the machine for Imperial, everything I do is converted to Metric.
I've had several situations where I've edited something in the Configuration and then had it step 1 inch. You need to do a comprehensive series of tests to make sure that it always uses the units it's set for. Personally, I'd remove that jog option altogether where you can set it to Inch or Metric. It makes no sense to have it there in my opinion. I'm not even sure why you have more than one place where you set the whole machine to Imperial or Metric. It's just confusing and unnecessary as far as I can see. It's an accident waiting to happen.
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On the probing tab there isn't a DRO for entering the probe radius. Inside the mcProbing module it writes the radius to the profile after doing a calibration then should display it in 'droCalcProbeRad' but this doesn't exist on the screen.. or at least within the Probing section
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So you'd like a read only DRO that shows what probe diameter is being accounted for?
Sorry if I'm not understanding :)
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Sorry, I realised after posting this that it reads the radius from the profile each time it does a probing sequence. So yeah, nothing to worry about
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Compared to the old 3804 build I used for years, this build doesn't respond crisply to the user interface any more. There's a noticeable delay when you jog, stop or start. When you jog multiple times it doesn't respond as nicely as it used to do. I don't know what's changed, but I very much preferred it as it was.
I'm seriously considering moving away from Mach4, I really don't like the way the fundamental behaviour changes significantly from one build to the next, with bugs being introduced along the way. When something works well, why not just leave well alone?
So far, all I've seen from the new build are backward steps from what I had before.
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What build does Mach recommend as a mostly stable build if you just want to get a machine up and running?
Thanks
Art