Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Elemental Form on February 03, 2021, 09:28:36 AM
-
Hello everyone, my Name is Rob Gore. I purchased a ZenBot 48"x96" CNC router last year, and it has been up and running for a while. We are using a gecko g540 4 axis control box and a UC 100 connected to the computer via double ferrite beaded USB cable. We have used this setup with and older windows 7 laptop and with a windows 10 (64 bit) tower (current setup).
I have some general questions, and a specific one related to an issue we are having.
General questions (please direct me to the correct place in the forum for these)
1. Is there a guide for setting up the machine coordinate system and homing functions? Currently we have none of that setup, we just zero to somewhere on the stock or part, make sure that location is zero in the CAM software (Fusion 360), and rock and roll. I'd like to have it setup correctly though, and I do not really know where to start. The machine has switches for x y and z but they currently do nothing.
2. Is there are best practices document somewhere, and/or a tuning guide for setting all the parameters in mach 3?
Specific question about an issue:
1. We have an intermittent UC100 connection issue. It will either have a sync error, or fully lose connection maybe once every other day (every 3-4 machine hours). I have taken the following steps to reduce the noise seen by the UC100 and USB cable.
a. double ferrite bead USB cable
b. VFD for spindle is in a thick steel box
c. UC100 chassis is grounded to computer chassis
d. Ensure USB power settings are not putting ports to sleep
Since doing these, the problem happens less frequently, but it still happens and is unacceptable. It also happened with the laptop we were using. I need a robust solution. This computer does not have a serial port. Please advise.
FWIW, I am a mechanical engineer and have tons of traditional machine shop and fabrication experience (built my own car from scratch), but I am definitely a bit of a noob regarding setting up and running CNC machines. Any help or advice is appreciated.
-
I have some general questions, and a specific one related to an issue we are having.
1. Is there a guide for setting up the machine coordinate system and homing functions? Currently we have none of that setup, we just zero to somewhere on the stock or part, make sure that location is zero in the CAM software (Fusion 360), and rock and roll. I'd like to have it setup correctly though, and I do not really know where to start. The machine has switches for x y and z but they currently do nothing.
2. Is there are best practices document somewhere, and/or a tuning guide for setting all the parameters in mach 3?
for 1. and 2. this two documents would be a good start i think:
https://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf
https://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3Mill_1.84.pdf
Specific question about an issue:
1. We have an intermittent UC100 connection issue. It will either have a sync error, or fully lose connection maybe once every other day (every 3-4 machine hours). I have taken the following steps to reduce the noise seen by the UC100 and USB cable.
a. double ferrite bead USB cable
b. VFD for spindle is in a thick steel box
c. UC100 chassis is grounded to computer chassis
d. Ensure USB power settings are not putting ports to sleep
Since doing these, the problem happens less frequently, but it still happens and is unacceptable. It also happened with the laptop we were using. I need a robust solution. This computer does not have a serial port. Please advise.
here you write: I Need a robust solution.
the "hard" answer is, throw this USB Thing out and go to a Ethernet connected Controller, but Keep fingers away
of all this chinese chunk.
-
I have some general questions, and a specific one related to an issue we are having.
1. Is there a guide for setting up the machine coordinate system and homing functions? Currently we have none of that setup, we just zero to somewhere on the stock or part, make sure that location is zero in the CAM software (Fusion 360), and rock and roll. I'd like to have it setup correctly though, and I do not really know where to start. The machine has switches for x y and z but they currently do nothing.
2. Is there are best practices document somewhere, and/or a tuning guide for setting all the parameters in mach 3?
for 1. and 2. this two documents would be a good start i think:
https://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf
https://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3Mill_1.84.pdf
Specific question about an issue:
1. We have an intermittent UC100 connection issue. It will either have a sync error, or fully lose connection maybe once every other day (every 3-4 machine hours). I have taken the following steps to reduce the noise seen by the UC100 and USB cable.
a. double ferrite bead USB cable
b. VFD for spindle is in a thick steel box
c. UC100 chassis is grounded to computer chassis
d. Ensure USB power settings are not putting ports to sleep
Since doing these, the problem happens less frequently, but it still happens and is unacceptable. It also happened with the laptop we were using. I need a robust solution. This computer does not have a serial port. Please advise.
here you write: I Need a robust solution.
the "hard" answer is, throw this USB Thing out and go to a Ethernet connected Controller, but Keep fingers away
of all this chinese chunk.
Ok that sounds reasonable. Can you point me in the direction of the correct ethernet controller (correct supplier, high quality)? I am assuming you are referring to a UC400ETH?
-
ok, it depends allways a bit on the need's and on the Money you want to spend, but IMHO good choises are:
-UC300Eth
-Uc400Eth
-AXBB-E
-all hicon Controllers
-PoKeys57CNC
-CSLab (only Mach3 or their own product SimCNC)
this is only my small list of controller's, i have only experience with CSLab, witch i use on all my machines.
the rest is only based on what i see (read) here in the Forum.
-
Hi,
you can add the Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9TD to that llist, it works well with Mach3 AND Mach4.
Craig
-
Awesome, thanks for the info. I got the machine coordinates and homing all figured out. It was easy I had just not put any effort towards it before... I was just excited to make stuff!! I will pick up one of those Ethernet options soon.
-
Is this the correct cable to go from on of those ETH controllers to the gecko?
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Profile-Parallel-Adapter-Bracket/dp/B009JXK5UE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=idc26-db25+-+lph+26+pin+to+db25+ribbon+cable&qid=1612444522&sr=8-1
-
Is this the correct cable to go from on of those ETH controllers to the gecko?
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Profile-Parallel-Adapter-Bracket/dp/B009JXK5UE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=idc26-db25+-+lph+26+pin+to+db25+ribbon+cable&qid=1612444522&sr=8-1
Yes but check - the required connection for the ESS and UC400ETH series 2 is per the attached diagram.
Tweakie.
-
ok cool, will do. Another interesting finding last night.. I had a UC100 sync error about 10 minutes into the first operation. I read somewhere about setting mach 3 priority in task manager. I set it to "real time" and ran for hours without a hiccup.
What is going on there?
-
Hi,
in the early days of Mach3 everyone used Machs parallel port driver as motion controller. The parallel port driver is an interrupt timer
based pulse generator, and it was, and still is, a marvel that it operates as well as it does in a Windows environment.
Windows make very VERY extensive use of the CPUs interrupt system and therefore Machs parallel port competes with Windows for
interrupt service. It is possible, to a limited extent, increase an applications interrupt priority, but if you over-do it you will crash Windows.
I suspect the advice you were given about increasing Machs interrupt priority dates from that time.
Given that you are using a UC 100 there is no parallel port driver running and therefore there should be no interrupt competition.
The UC100 is USB connected and can and occasionally is out-competed by other applications or services running on the PC. For this
reason you are advised never to run any other applications and only ever run the bare essential services on your PC so that Mach and
its USB connection to the UC100 is not interrupted in any way.
USB data packets are initiated every 10-12ms or so whereas Ethernet packets are initiated a less than 1ms intervals. Ethernet communications
can miss entirely one or even two packets and yet still maintain quasi continuous comms and are therefore more robust and less likely to
run-out-of-data, or loss of sync.
A related issue is that USB packets are rather more susceptible to corruption from electrical noise, and as each packet is larger takes even greater
time to re-transmit, increasing the probability of a run-out-of-data error. Using the shortest high quality cables with at least one ferrite but better
still, two ferrites is recommended to avoid the problem.
Craig
-
Thanks for the thorough reply Craig, that all makes sense. I guess a question that comes to mind is, why did setting Mach 3 priority to real time seem to fix the uc100 sync error? It was happening pretty much like clockwork, then after making that adjustment we performed hours of passes with no issue.
-
Hi,
I suspect that by elevating the priority of Mach3 that it suffers less interruptions and therefore the UC100, or rather, the USB connection
to the UC100 runs better.
As a side note Windows makes such extensive use of the CPUs interrupt system that it cannot ever be 'realtime'.
It is this lack of realtime determinism that prevents Windows/Mach from being a feedback controller, Mach, in fact all
Windows based CNC software solutions, must be 'buffered'.
Compare that to LinuxCNC, it runs on a realtime capable distro of Linux and it can creditably be a feedback controller.
Craig
-
Update: I bought a Warp9 Tech Design Ethernet Smooth Stepper. Connection was a breeze due to their awesome installation and setup wizard!! What a nice change from just getting a part in a box and having to figure it all out on your own.
Once I got it up and running, I ran into a hiccup in the first 15-20 inches of manual travel. I got an "ESS ran out of data" error message, along with a link to the warp9 site where the solution for the problem is. I reinstalled the driver for my ethernet port, and increased mach 3 priority to "high" and began a 3 hour facing operating on our new one piece HPDE vacuum manifold spoil board we are making. The CNC completed the entire operating successfully without any errors!! That is the first time we have had on operation that long run without a controller sync error of some sort. Hopefully it will continue to work well. Thanks for the support and suggestions, I'm sure I will be here fairly often with more.