Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: john11668 on January 26, 2021, 07:36:17 AM
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I am new to Mach 4 having got used to Mach 3 , and i understand that we are now in Mach 4 version 2 and has been so for a couple of years.
I am using it in lathe configuration and the manual available to me in the documentation section is Version 1 2014
I found no difficulty in setting up X and Z motions which were pretty intuitive . But setting up spindle control and pully gearing does not seem (to me ) to be well covered . I am also wondering if there is a more up to date version of the manual too, as the windows I am seeing do not seem to correspond with what the manual shows .
Can anyone guide me to a current version or even an independent (for dummies ) book.
Thanks
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I know we need to update the manuals :( that is like the most dreaded task! Making manuals is no fun at all! What would you like to do with the spindle? I am sure I can help you.
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(At this stage ) I need to start it , simply switching the spindle relay to take a 230v supply to the DC controller .
I then need to apply a 0-10 v analogue signal to control the speed up or down.
I need to input spindle index pulse for feedback to tell me what speed it is doing .
Finally I will need to input ratios for the spindle gearing to relate the spindle speed to the motor speed . Hopefully I may eventually be able to do a bit of screwcutting
In Mach 3 I had the following settings :-
Spindle enabled with PWM control ( spindle clockwise on output#2)
spindle step pin 1 (low active) dir pin 1 all on port 1
Output #2 set for port 1 pin 17 Index port 1 pin 12
Clearly the settings in Mach 4 are much more involved.
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The settings in Mach4 are about the same really. We don't do any PWM but the motion controller will have that functionality. What motion controller are you using? Depending on the motion controller will change how this is done.
Thanks
Brian
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Using uc100 as I did in Mach 3
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Okay I will have a look at the config in the plugin and tell you what I see !
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Thanks
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Here is the setting... This is part of the UC100.
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Hi Brian
I have been through that process! and no further forward
Chose pwm control which works fine in M3
I also used the same pin, step , direction settings which I had used in M3 but in M4
However the setup pages are far more involved .. lack of a manual is a serious defect IMHO.
I am trying to progress by trial and error . hardly an effective way forward.
I can run a program in M3 Cant (yet) in M4 . I suppose it may be easier for those with stepper spindles where effectively it is little more than another axis .
Where are the lathe users out there using other spindle speed controls , Vfd, Lenze etc
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The problem is we don't make that code so it would not be the manual for us to show how that works :( . I will tell you that we have fixed this issue before now that I think of it. Please send me an Email with your M3 INI and your Mach 4 profile. I will set it up and test it with a scope here and see what we need to change.
I know I can make it work! I just need to have the scope on it to see it working. We make the spindle run tomorrow!
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Will do Brian
May take me a while tomorrow.
Are you maybe suggesting it is up to CNC drive to provide the appropriate settings.
Their manual for UC100 only covers M3
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Hi,
CNCDrive is the manufacturer of UCCNC software, a competitor to Mach4 and NFS.
With all the good will in the world its hard to imagine CNCDrive would be overly concerned about their Mach4 plugin, they'd rather have
you buy UCCNC instead.
Craig
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We tested the UC100 and it is working fine putting out the PWM so I think it is just a setting we need to get sorted
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Hi,
CNCDrive is the manufacturer of UCCNC software, a competitor to Mach4 and NFS.
With all the good will in the world its hard to imagine CNCDrive would be overly concerned about their Mach4 plugin, they'd rather have
you buy UCCNC instead.
Craig
I have tried UCCNC on the mill and it seems OK but I am told that the lathe function is inadequate.The more I look around , the more I see that lathe users are not well catered for
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John,
Can you provide me with the PWM settings you had for MACH3 previously?
If you can do this I will figure out the translation from MACH3 to MACH4 to get your PWM correct.
As of right now the UC100 PWM settings function properly within MACH4.
Giving the proper pulse width at the correct RPM with the correct frequency (I have examples if you'd like to see them).
The units used for frequency aren't specified in the MACH3 dialogs so we'll have to do some deciphering but that's not an issue.
Also could you please provide me with the build number of your Mach3 version (this may play a role in how the software behaves during my testing).
Once I have these things it shouldn't take me long to translate this.
We'll get this!
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Hi Goomba
These are the settings which work fine on my lathe in Mach 3 .
It wont accept spindle ratios . so I just alter motor speeds until I get a reasonable true speed reading
I am confident that my true speed readings are good.. Checked with mechanical tacho.
Cant get to build number at the moment . Computer is set up for another job . Shout if you cant do without it .
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We tested the UC100 and it is working fine putting out the PWM so I think it is just a setting we need to get sorted
Hi Brian
No doubt you see the settings I attached for Goomba
Attached here too
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Great we will sort this tomorrow, I don’t have any stuff to test here :( I the ratios I know work well so we will come up with a good config
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Hey John,
Alright so I loaded up your PWM setting into MACH3 and found that you're running at 100Hz, which is fine. So now we need to get MACH4 to replicate that. So I would take the following steps to ensure your setup is correct in MACH4.
1: Configure > Plugins > UC100
2: Set the Spindle frequency to 100
Now we know the correct frequency is chosen we can make sure the MACH4 spindle parameters are correct.
1: (still in MACH4) Configure > Control > *Top right hand corner of dialog box* hit the right arrow until you see the spindle tab. Then click it.
2: Once at the spindle tab set your max RPM to the RPM you had set in the MACH3 for your spindle pulleys. (MACH3 > Config > Spindle Pulleys.)
This way we know we're working apples to apples.
Once you do this you should be in working order, however I know this can be troublesome so if you don't get it right away let me know and we'll find out where you went wrong.
The pulse width is based upon the maximum RPM the spindle is allowed.
If screenshots would help just ask and I'll post them up for you.
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Will try those settings tomorrow .
Is there an option to select different pulley ratios ?
Will try this and report back
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You can set the pull on the diagnostics page. If you would like I can make you a few macros to change the ranges. I use M41 low m42 , M43 and so on. Your analog should be based on the Motor speed... this is done so your PWM will not have to look at the ratio you are in. This works well and makes it very simple.
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I am not seeing pulley ratios on the diagnostics page .
Would have expected to see a number of otions for pulley ratios .
???
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Let me do this for you ... put the Mcodes in the macro's directory (need to be taken out of the zip file)
M41 in MDI will put you in range 0 M42 will do range 1
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Let me do this for you ... put the Mcodes in the macro's directory (need to be taken out of the zip file)
M41 in MDI will put you in range 0 M42 will do range 1
Thank you for that Brian but you may as well have been speaking chinese there. What do I actually do with those files?
I cant open them .
Can you translate that into something that a dummy like me can take on board .
Coming back to my OP, Mach 4 really does need a Manual.
Surely you will sell more if you make Mach 4 user friendly. Maybe you need to have someone write a "Mach 4 for dummies" book. I am sure it would sell.
Having said that I have made progress today, partially as a result of your invaluable advice above (many thanks) but in a great part through trial and error and finding my earlier cockups . Please do not take this as criticism . It is intended as constructive advice as well as appeal for help..
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In the mach4 directory you will see a Profiles folder. In the profiles folder you will see the profile you are loading and in that you will see the Mcodes directory . Place the files in the Mcode directory. You can open the files with notpad if you like. You can see what I did if you like :)
We have video's and doc's, the issue is it is never what anyone wants to have! Now we are starting to get people telling me that we have to many docs! You simply can't win :(.
The sad fact is that CNC is not that simple if you want to have a custom machine. We really work to make the machines how the people want them. The people that build machines bundle the software with it so the users don't need to learn any of that. The other people want to play around with the software and bend the machine to do their bidding. I am from the 2nd camp :) I love making the machines do my bidding!
Hope that helps! Also the guys are doing support everyday and I am going to be on this section of the form helping . I get a kick out of helping now that I am not needed for as heavy a development.
Brian
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Thanks for that Brian.
I am also in camp 2 having added a "Heath Robinson" style 3 axis conversion to a venerable Deckel mill and I found there is tremendous satisfaction in doing something like that. This was during the UK lockdown early last year.
Late last year I bought a small school type lathe to do similar. X and Z did not give me any major headaches but Mach 3 spindle control did and hence the reason I tried mach4 and came for advice .
Not having vast experience on M3 lathe software (a few months at best), I am finding Mach 4 very different and without some form of manual it is a steep hill for me to climb.
I am slowly getting there step by step , muddling through in a way,
I have started these projects relatively late in my lifetime , never having had much time earlier . So my learning rate is not what it would have been forty years ago.
I do have difficulty with the jargon that goes with computer software which does not help.
But step by step I will get there .
thanks again
John
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John, if all you really want to do is manually change Pulleys like Mach 3 called them, just go to the diagnostics page and type in the number. Thing is they're not called pulleys like Mach3, but Ranges. Simply type your number in, press enter, set to go. You, of course, need to set them UP, in Config/Control/Spindle.
I have a step pulley BP clone with 8 speeds, 4 of them reverse rotation. My setup in attached jpgs.
If what you want to do is get fancy, Brian is on it!!
Tom
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John,
The real issue is that we can solve the problems like 20 ways and depending on what your looking to do one will be better than the other. You take this one chunk at a time and we will get your machine doing things that seemed like magic days before :) . peoples attitude will limit them more than anything else and your seems very good so you will have a good time learning and building.
Thanks
Brian
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That is fair comment Brian
I will spend some time this week following the advice I have been given and see where that gets me.
With regard to the "ranges" which thosj speaks about i can see them on the top of my screen. But can barely read some of the labels , so for example I could not make out the word range .
Along with other issues I have mentioned in my configuration manual thread makes me wonder if maybe I have problems with my download and what if any options I may have .
I am running windows 10 on a 64 bit machine
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It all has to do with sizers and the screen resolution. You can resize the width so you can read it better. We Check the width of everything before every release. But sadly we can’t control how you setup the pc. I think we can set a minimum width ... wonder what that will do :) whatever you do don’t get frustrated, we are here to help before that happens!