Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: fdos on October 06, 2007, 05:23:44 PM
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All.
Well typical of me to start another couple of projects before I got the other big ones finished, but hell I need to amuse myself!
Sometime ago I picked up a few Boxford TCL125 training lathes being sold out of a local School. Needless to say I bought the lot, just to save for a rainy day ;)
I was intending to build a couple of bespoke machines for a job which never materialised. But lately had a couple more ideas.
Only one of the machines rill ran, and all of them had been vandalised by the schoolkids to some extent. They were all a bit rusty too.
So this week I pulled one apart, and started modifying the carcase of the machine to allow for some useful swarf (chip) management. ie, cut a bloody great hole in the bottom! I will build a custom stand to sit the machine on.
I also removed the bed and cleaned it up, and have temporarily bolted it to a MDF board for testing. Steppers have gone, and in their place a couple of DC brushed servos. With The new Leadshine servo drives running them. These drives run great, and although a naughty Gecko ripoff, they have been redesigned and I fear now they may just be a better product :o
At the moment running on the original stepper brackets and belts/pullies. The x axis motor will be swung over to the right on an angled mount later on to make room for a gang too platen on the crosslide. Both motors/encoders will be protected one way or another.
But this hashed up test works damn well. The little machine rips along with 5000mm/min (196") rapids.
Many things to do but a good start and if it goes well the others will get the same treatment.
Wayne.....
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Ok folks. Here's a video of the little bugger in action.
http://www.youtube.com/v/jqdNUaM0hKo
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Good job fdos. Any plans for cublocs on these machines?
Brett
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Brett
They may very well get a cubloc each. depends on how much automation I eventually put on them
They should end up with magazine barfeeders, and chip conveyor, so maybe a Cubloc will be pressed into service to have that stuff. But have to get the basic machine able to cut yet ;)
Intended use is to put all the Delrin work I do onto these machines. I do a LOT of delrin Plus a couple of small mild steel jobs I do regularly.
Probably wont need screwcutting ability, but would make a useful testbed for something Brian has in mind.
Wayne....
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Wayne,
Very impressed with the speed!
Do you have a collet chuck solution? Any pointers would be helpful.
I have a toolplate on my TCL at the moment, it is an improvement on the 8 station turret and easier to set up.
The job it is running on is a brass collet blank. Cycle time is 32 secs, total G00 time is 5 secs.
Steppers are nema 23 2.5A and G00 speed is 1.8 M/min. This is the maximum speed with Mach3 at 25K, steppers stall if I go any higher, I think I may have to go to Geckos if I want a faster G00.
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Ian
I do have a collet closer solution. Sometime ago I designed an ER32 power closer for the Emco's we run. This I need to redesign for the Boxfords, and make a few improvements. The emco's are shortly to be retired!
I can actually run the rapids at 7000mm/min no problem and probably higher. But we did a little test yesterday, and the difference between 7 and 5 m/min on that test program equates to 1 second over the runtime! So we will when time permits do more tests and find out the optimum slowest rapids and stick to that. Anything that gives no real benefit is just worthless on such a small machine.
We are seeing it hit the 5m rapids often during that program though, even on some short moves. but then the servo's allow much more sever acceleration.
I like your tooling plate, similar to how I intend to run mine. How well is Mach handling the effective from and rear toolposts? Tool offsets being used?
Any video of your machine running that part? I'd like to see it.
Wayne....
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Wayne,
I hand code on simple jobs. With the bar extended, on Mach3 screen, I set X=0 on the OD and Z=0 on the bar end. Offsets are then picked up by jogging the tools into position, read off the values from the Mach screen and entered into code. (Quick and dirty!!!). Final code is tweeked for accuracy. Code for this is only 22 lines and that includes small 45 degree chamfers to break the edges. This is not a big production job, I do about 100 of these collets a year in various bore sizes.
I will do a video in a day or two.
Your collet chuck solution will be very interesting.
Ian
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Ian
Only just noticed your toolplate is a Boxford product. I didn't know that they had thought about gang tooling. All mine had Dickson QC toolposts on them.
We have been reviewing the collet closer design today. I want to make it simpler than it is at the moment. I think I have come up with a more elegant design. But these things always need very careful testing.
Wayne....
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Looks good Wayne, shame about the music ;)
Was looking at getting one of these Boxfords a while back but ended up with the Computurn, not much difference LOL
Hood
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Pffft Hood. Devo are my hero's! Besides I'm doing some work for em ;)
So for your entertainment from now on ALL my vids will have a Devo soundtrack!!
Wayne....
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No problem, I have a volume control :D
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Wayne,
Video as requested. First try with youtube, hope it all works. It is in the Youtube Mach group at:-
http://www.youtube.com/group/artsoft
I was going to call the background "The Scream of Tortured Brass" accompanied by a Xylotex and "The Chinese Steppers", but the sound has been attenuated by the system. :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehit1ip1LfM
Ian
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For a realy good toolplate lathe, have a look at
http://www.omni-turn.com
then - View Our Movies - More Video Automation - Pill Case Demo.
No connection, just gave me the motivation to try a toolplate.
Ian
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Ian
Nice little vid. Reminds me how much I hate the sounds of steppers and that DC spindle drive though! I'm changing mine to 0.55kW 3 Phase motor and Inverter drive. One of my TCL machines had a dead Gemini drive anyway. I think it may have been this one I'm currently working on.
I'm quite familiar with the OmniTurns, yes Gang Tooling has it's merits on Chuckers. I have discarded the Tailstocks on my TCL's too!
Here's a couple of pics of the Carcase of the current victim. You can see the hole I cut in the bottom, did I say these machines were really rough LOL. When all welding done they'll have to get grit blasted and posder coated.
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Wayne,
Don't underestimate the Lenze DC Motors, they are very good performers, if you get a good driver. My Boxford was fitted with a mechanically interlocked reverse/forward contactor, so if I ever need to do small hole tapping, it should be OK. I know what you mean about VFDs, ftted to my manual big lathe and 626 manual mill, they are a revelation (revolution?).
I hope you will keep posting pictures of your progress, judging by the number of people reading this thread, there is a lot of interest.
Ian
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Ian
Not under estimating the Lenze motors! I do dislike DC drives compared to modern AC drives. It stems from the big DC spindles I seen blow up bigtime in Hardinges.
My Hardinge HXL-S (Another thread on here) had a 4kW DC drive, It's now a 3kW AC system, this is quieter and appears from initial testing to have just as much torque. But then it is a rather expensive Siemens affair.
The Lenze motors and the Motors fitted to the Little emco's actually make quite nice DC servo motors for the larger retrofit ;)
Tonight I welded the chute into the hole I cut into the bottom of the case. Looking purposeful now!
Next week I'll have to concentrate on the Hardinge though.
Wayne....
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Here's a pic of the waste disposal chute !! Fairly happy with the way it turned out.
Gave me an excuse to repair the wire feed on my Mig welder which stripped all it's gears about 4 years ago! No need to go borrowing a friends again now.
Next to make the stand which will be from 1" box section, and have a coolant tank in the bottom.
Wayne....
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You going to build a chip conveyer :D Seriously though its should make a big difference on such a small machine to get all the turnings out of the way.
Hood
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It's very likely Hood. I do produce a lot of chips in my little workshop ;) The leadwell mill produces about 200kg a week in ally. In fact I got a friend up here cleaning up after me!
Initially I'll probably just put a bin under it, and see how it goes. But even on the little emco's when turning Delrin I have to empty the bugger every 10 minutes or so. The Boxfords I want to be able to run lights out, on a few jobs I have which is ideal for them.
Wayne....
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Are they very complex jobs that will take all night or are you going to fit a bar puller or bar feed and a power chuck?
I am away to do away with my power chuck on the lathe, the reason is its a closed centre chuck so nothing can go through the spindle, also my type of work is different from one piece to the next so setting the jaws for each diameter will be a pain. I do a few prop shafts for boats which need to go through the spindle as they can be 10ft or more long. I am about to get a four jaw and a 3 jaw 12inch manual chuck, they will be much better for the work I do.
Hood
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Hood. Blanked power chucks are a pain I know.
My work is repeating small to medium batch sizes 50-1000 parts normally per order. The jobs I have in mind for the Boxfords are a couple of jobs I normally do on the Emco or even the capstan.
Yes a power collet closer is in the works (own design) and some form of bar feeder. Seems silly to some on such a small machine, but these things can do good work, and take up no room. More than I can say for my bigger machines. The Emco's have proved the point over the years, and now it's almost time to let someone else get good use out of them.
As I said at the beginning of this thread, I have several of these Boxfords, and this particular one is the prototype, and if it works well they will all get the same treatment.
It's been on the cards for a longtime, but originally was going to be for a 30k pieces/year order in nylon 66, but thats now gone to china for moulding. I still got other parts for the same product though.
Wayne....
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Hell0 Guys,
Just wondering how you got along with the auto collet and feeder deal. Sure would like to see what you came up with.
I'm trying to do something similar with 5C but it's getting too complex.
Thanks Ian and Wayne,
RC
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RC,
No progress from me yet, Wayne may be fruther along on the collet system. I have a Myford Collet chuck that I am considering as a posibility but it may be better to start from scratch. The pull system that Omniturn uses looks better than rigging up a gravity type push system for bar feeding since I will only be using small diameter bar stock on the Boxford TCL.
Wayne any more pictures?
Ian
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Hi sorry for the delaying in getting back here. Been busy all over the holidays on yet another side project (Vacuum former) which has taken all my time, but works well.
Anyway was back on the Boxford today, but only more welding on the carcase to get ready for the initial test assembly.
Re the collet closer. I have a fair bit of it done, but my recommendation for Overloaded it that IF your spindle can take a 5C size drawtube then go with 5C. I only gone the ER32 route because the Boxford only has a 20mm dia spindle bore.
Wayne.....
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Wayne...Thanks for the reply,
I decided to build a pneumatic collet closer, much like a Dunham.
I have a rotary unit from a Nexen/Horton air clutch that should do nicely.
I'll start with a puller on the toolplate, then maybe go to an air feed from the back. Like the Triple Air from Omni Turn.
I'm gonna be needin' some help when it comes to the external controls.
I can do it with a PLC, but have no clue how to do it with Mach and the PC.
More on that later.
Keep posting your progress for us.....I will as well.
Thanks again,
RC
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Thought some of you might be interested in why I not been around much. But then again some of you will be horrified Haha!
I did mention above that I had been working on a vacuum former for a project, well here's a vid of the Mold test (On a commercial machine) in November.
http://www.youtube.com/v/IlLtOFdmjaM
There is no vid yet of the machine I built, but it's faster and Mach was used a LOT to make parts for it.
The DEVO Hats (Energy Domes!) Made their debut on stage at the Warfield Theatre Jan15th 2008 at the MACworld Bash. They were booked my Microsoft for the release of Office 2008 for MAC
http://www.youtube.com/v/mPVs5FAC6zw
Wayne....
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Thats a loverly machine. I have often wanted to make one similar. I would love to see a video tour of the machine.
How did you "CRACK" onto that job?
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Benny
The machine in the Vid was not made by me and is a commercial one I was considering buying (£2500), the mold being used is mine though.
I ended up with an offer of an real Vacuum Pump which got me thinking about making my own machine. This I did over the xmas break. Only issues I had was with the heating. After wasting a lot of material at nearly £1 a sheet, I managed to get the heating right, by buying fancy ceramic heaters (2.8kW)
This job would not have been possible with a vacuum cleaner! The pump I use pulls 29"Hg into a 25l tank in just under a minute. My machine pulls the plastic down instantly.
As for landing the "job"? Well I been a DEVO fan for nearly 30 yrs, and turned up some fancy earrings for the wife to wear during their Euro Tour last year, and they got noticed! I was already fortunate to of been in the "in crowd" already having been a fan for so long.
http://www.devo-obsesso.com/html/news_pgs/europe_07/brighton/wayne.html For pictures, The little brass "naughty" pinback badge I made WAS machined with Mach.
There's a few more things I'm doing for them
Wayne.....
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Benny. I assume it is the Vacuum Former you are interested in?
Well here's a vid of the HomeBrew one in action
Wayne....
http://www.youtube.com/v/fFskUFNI4qA
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Thanks for taking the time to show me, although I suspect you were looking for a reason to inflict some Devo on us :)
Yes the former is interesting with all its holes. Do you see dimples on the upper side of the plastic ?
I suspect the former is hollow, otherwise you would need a long drill.
I like the quick action of your home brew. Is that with a vac cleaner motor?
I have wondered about using a chamber to suck all the air out of first and releasing the chamber.
There is a lot of scope owning a plastic vac former. Making guards for cnc machines to cover up sin underneath. I would love to make and sell escutcheons to house monitors and also incorporate a space for knobs etc for cnc control panels. I reckon they would sell easily.
For the record, my favorite was "Twist away, those gates of steel" ( Mind you, its been 20 years since I heard that song)
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Benny
The mold is about 1" thick MDF in section. MDF is only OK for a couple hundred forms, the heat really gets to it!
That Mold has been reprimed (Water based) and refinished once already, and will be replaced with a new Ally Mold next month. We intend to run 1000's of these.
No Vacuum Cleaner motor here. They can only pull a few inches Hg of vacuum. I'm using an Edwards Dual Vane High Vacuum pump into a 20-25l tank. I'm getting 28-29" Hg or 100Kpa which means the gauge is bang to the stop. Even then it takes about 50 secs to get there. Less time than the heating anyway.
The Material is 2mm thick.
Nooo Not a reason to inflict more Devo, but I did need about 2minutes of something to drown out the chugging of the vacuum pump. Too Much Paranoia fitted perfectly.
They may tour Oz soon, if you get a chance go see them, it's a live show that even non fans tend to talk about for months afterwards.
Wayne.....
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Here is a thread where we discussed vac forming way back in 2004. You can see I have advanced towrds building one in that time :)
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3219
If you are on the so called inner circle, make sure you get me two tickets for free.
The only concerts I talk about for months afterwards are Pink Floyd ones.